Rafa Honigstein on Football Daily (BBC Radio 5 Live): "Jamal Musiala has revealed that absent seizures caused by a ne...

This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello and welcome to the Euroleagues. Coming up with less than a week remaining in the transfer window, we'll discuss the latest with Julian Alvarez after he was booed by Fletti fans during Sunday's 2-2 draw. With Vila Raya, we know he wants Barcelona. But our arsenal, the only club who can afford him, we're going to be previewing the Bundesliga season as well, discussing Barnes-Jamaal Moseyala after absence seizures caused him to collapse in two consecutive friendlies last week. And our bruised Dortmund, or anyone else, in a position to challenge Bayern this season, and finally, Schaulker, spearheaded by 40-year-old Ed & Jekko, are back in the Bundesliga after three seasons away. Their head coach, Miral Moselec, will be joining the pod to discuss leaving Plymouth, getting the club promoted, and to look ahead to the upcoming season as well. So plenty to discuss, and with us this week, German Football Expert, Rafa Honnickstein, and ESPN's Julian Del Wands. Hello, both. Hello, hello. Hello, guys. Hello, and we've got loads to chat about this week. Just a few things as well before we sort of get into the Alvarez situation at Ed & Jekko. We've had some teams confirmed for the final spots in the Champions League this season, and I think we're happy Bode Glimp to back in it. I mean, we can talk about their amazing stadium in the Arctic Circle again this season. And it's true that nobody would want to be on, obviously, because especially if you play them in December or January, this is not a trip you want to be part of. It's hard enough to get there to be fair. You need, I think, three different flights from the main European cities. But as you said, Maas, with the weather, with the snow, with the wind, everything like that, the plastic pitch, obviously, it's a trap when you go to Bode Glimp, as we saw with Inter Milan or Roma in the past, or even Manchester City last season. So, good luck, whoever faces Bode at that time of the year. Raff, and I mean, this is astonishing again, that last comeback against Celtic. You know, that lead that Celtic had, and they bottled it. So, last back in the Champions League as well? Yeah, crazy. My name is a big Celtic fan, and when he told me that he's watching the game, I thought, really, why are you watching the second leg? It's all over. But, to turn out, it wasn't. Laska and Crelieby are strong at home. They won the double last year, of course, with Dedicubo in charge. And that is actually, maybe, unlike Bode, a really fun trip. It's a nice little city. You can sort of drive from Munich. It's not so well connected in terms of airports, but, yes, great atmosphere. 11,000, yeah, one of those modern stadiums that actually do the job really well. We should say that the jaw for the league face of the Champions League is on Thursday evening. We're recording this episode of Euroleagues on Wednesday, so we don't yet know who'll face who. But, obviously, we'll talk about the Champions League. Lots more once the draws made next week, and, obviously, as we gear up for Match Day 1 on September the 8th. But let's get into it, guys. Let's talk about Alvarez. He played his first match for Athletic Coma Drid, since announcing in the summer that he wanted to fulfill his dream and join Barcelona on Sunday night. He was booed by the home fans. His name was whistled when it was announced to the stadium pre-match. After the match, the squad clapped the supporters. Alvarez, of course, left the pitch. He walked down the tunnel on his own, which is never a good look. After all that being on Sunday, he hasn't shown up for training today. I mean, it's pretty clear, isn't it, that the situation just isn't good for anyone? No, it's pretty sad, really, to see a player of his caliber being booed by his own fans. Of course, in a strange way, it almost helps his course because the situation has become untenable to certain extent. And I think even Athletic who've been very hard-line and they're approached so far might think, we can't continue this. If the fans had been slightly more relaxed, maybe, there would be a way back. But of course, once you come out publicly and talk about dreams and so on, but still turn up at your old tea, it's not great. So financially, I think it's the biggest issue. Once, it used to be the case maybe a few years ago that when a player of this kind of caliber would come out publicly, it was all part sort of about the negotiation ploy. It was about, you know, the money and so on. But usually, you got the sense that he would only do this. He would only take that risk for his own reputation and so on, once there's a good indication that the two clubs will eventually find an agreement. Now, the situation, I think, with Athletic's ideas of what he's worth and Barcelona's ability or willingness to pay, I think there's still a significant gap, which is why this hasn't moved on at all and we're at the end of August already. So I still think a transfer of some sort is the most realistic outcome. But I'm not so confident having seen how little movement we have had over the last month or so since this has first surfaced. The thing is, you can understand why Athletico don't want to sell him to Barcelona. It's just not to strengthen a direct competitor for the league, for example. So that makes a lot of sense. The problem, and we've seen a lot of those transfers, sigas through the summer, every year, sometimes even in January. Look, Alexander, he signed the season. He was as toxic as this situation really in a way. The problem is, if Alvaro really wants to live Athletico, that is his first choice, B. Barcelona, sure. But surely, if Barca can't happen for whatever reason, he still wants to go. So a club like Arsenal, I know he doesn't want to come back to the Premier League and he left, obviously, in Man City to go to Spain. But there's worse team than Arsenal for you to go to really when you think about it. So I've got no sympathy for him. I think he put all of that upon himself, some of the decisions that he made, some of his communication, like Rafi said publicly, saying about Barcelona and leaving. I mean, Athletico spent a lot of money on him when he forced the move out of City because he felt he didn't play enough. They build a team around him. It's called a lot of goals for him, but they've also paid him a lot of money to come and be there over the last two seasons of a six-year deal, by the way. And yet, now he throws the toys out of the prime to get a move to Barcelona. And by the way, I think we should also say that his agent is also NC Flix's agent, who is the Barcelona manager. And I think there's a lot of that in it too. I understand it, no problem. But if that your priority move can't happen, you still want to leave. Just finding agreement somewhere else and still be happy because clearly he's not happy where he's right now. I think you're right, Jules. But at the same time, I have some sympathy for him because he would have been told before he went public that there's a strong chance of this happening. I don't think he would have just woken up on the Tuesday and said, you know what today I'm just going to talk about Barcelona. However, that information was accurate or not, or whether he's been slightly misled. But I think it feels to me as if he'd been hung out to dry a little bit by the people in the background, because as I said earlier, I think you don't really get to that point as a player before you feel you have a realistic chance of this deal actually happening. And he would have been encouraged by the people around him to make that statement. And Arsenal perspective as well as you're sort of saying their Jules. Do you want then a player as well who so publicly sort of had the situation play out the way it has and made it so public that he wants to go to a different club. And as you say, sort of ended Manchester City when he was last in the Premier League on a pretty sour note as well. That chapter. No, you're right. It's not ideal if you're asked all, although the football qualities that he has would fit this Arsenal team and the way Micheladita plays. So brilliantly that you can also think from that point of view, OK, sure he wants to go to Barcelona. If that doesn't happen, we hear. If he opens the door, we can make this happen. And once he's an Arsenal player, he will forget about Barcelona. He will, you would expect him to play his best. And again, in a team that is working so well, that is so strong that could win him more trophies because he's already completed football, by the way, let's not forget. He's won everything possible of winning the Champions League, the World Cup, the Copa America, the Copa Libertadores. Just everything, the Premier League, except in Spain, obviously, has a more than a league. But for the rest, everywhere he's been. And again, there's that chance for him Arsenal. So from an Arsenal point of view, you probably see, OK, this is no ideal. We get that. However, once he's here, you would think that as a professional and a player of his caliber, like we've been saying, there should not be really any issue of his commitment, his attitude, the behavior, the motivation to help this Arsenal team to win him more trophies. If the price wasn't so big, what you could do, of course, is just take him for a year and then sell him onto Barcelona. And then everyone's happy. But I think the dimension of financials here involved will make this kind of sell on DL2 complicated. Also, if they really 150 million euros for Julen Alvaro, this is not worth that. This is not the right valuation of a player like him. He's only 26. He's a really good player. As we said, he was very successful in terms of winning. He scores 20 goals last season in all competitions for Athlete, 29 the year before, 19. I think the last season he left City as a kind of super-serve impact player. So there's a good player there. But this is not 150 million euro player for sure. As we keep saying, we're recording this Wednesday, and obviously things can rapidly change in a matter of minutes. But say if Barcelona were to show their hand, and for example, say the deal can't happen and at the moment it kind of indicates that that's the direction it's going, do we expect then sort of Alvaro's to decide he's ready to sort of settle for Arsenal in a sense? It's interesting because I think if really he was keen to go to Arsenal, this would have evolved already. I think Rafi is right as well in the sense that he must be told right now and for him to not show up at training as well. So say, I don't worry, this Basadil is going to happen again. We said about his entourage, the close links with Barcelona, all of that. I don't know how you force Athlete's hand to sell him to Barcelona, to be honest. I don't think Barcelona right now can afford him 150 million euros plus his wages. But maybe they can find that money somewhere. I just think that time is running out now, and really if he had thought at some point, even last week or the week before, OK, Bansai is not happening, what else can I have? Arsenal is still a really good option, let's be honest. Then I think he would have done that already, and the fact that he hasn't done that probably shows you that he's definitely not opening the door to Arsenal. And it kind of fails in that scenario, Rafi, that Arsenal hold all the cards in that situation. Well, I don't know if they hold all the cards, I think this is going to be an opportunistic move if it comes off for them. They know that this is a case of, as we say in Germany, when 20 Stride and 40 Sterdritte, which roughly translates to when two people are fighting, the third one is laughing. But I don't know if they can really bet on that. So I think the hand, if you want to use the analogy, is actually not that strong because it depends on things falling into place elsewhere. And it's only ever going to be a contingency solution. So I'd be really interested and maybe Jews can shed more light on this, but whether they're thinking we can pick up, or if it sort of happens, or if it doesn't, we are strong enough. We don't need another striker because to find another striker, that's really going to help us is going to be so difficult in this market. So it's either a case of almost like a bonus player or nothing. And in that sense, they can be quite relaxed, but I don't think they're fully in control of the situation either. No, I agree. I think bonus is exactly that. I think they'll be very happy with this. But even if they lose Martinelli, and we expect that deal for Martinelli to all hail out to go through. I think if the Martinelli does go through, then I think they might look at another winger to be on that left hand side with Tollis, with potentially Azay, or even my Duakay diamond can probably play a bit on the left hand side, even if the right is the preferred position. But I'll summarize this very much. The bonus, the icing on the cake. Sorry, the cherry on the cake, you're saying here. What has been a really good transfer window already for them. If that happens, they take it. They have kind of that kind of money-ish. And it's available. If Alvarez doesn't come. And again, I agree with Rafi that they're not really in control of that deal. But they're there. They're there. If again, the door opens. But then, yeah, I don't think they'd be too disappointed if that one doesn't happen. Right, let's look ahead to the Bundesliga season. Schauke-Boss Miro-Muslech will be with us very shortly. But we have to start with Bayern. The big story at the club this past week has involved their 23-year-old Jamal Mousseala, who has revealed that absent seizures caused by a neurological dysfunction or what caused him to collapse in two consecutive friendlies last week. Since then, Vincent Company has revealed that the club has been handling his seizures for quite some time now. And that a slight change to his treatment caused some side effects. Rafi's treatment mentioned there. How are the club handling some of its incredibly tough situation around? Yeah, first of all, I think it's really important to say that the club has been aware of this for 12 months and over. This thing kind of started raising its ugly head when Jamal Mousseala had a car accident in spring. And as a result, started no longer driving himself. But came with a chauffeur. And a lot of people took note of that around the club and thought that's a bit odd, you know. For a young player not to drive himself. And since then Munich was rife with sort of whispers and rumours, but to the credit of the club and certainly the team. They've all kept under wraps for well over 12 months, which is incredible. If you think about the amount of people who would have known this, also, of course, in a national team, where there's the same team doctor that by and half travels with a national team. They were, of course, aware of this or another layer of people, but they also kept kept it quiet. And it would have been able to keep it quiet more if, according to Vincent Company, a change in medication, as you said, hadn't brought this to the surface on the pitch. What happened in the past was that he would have these episodes, but it was not on the pitch or when it happened on the pitch. People didn't quite notice it because it wasn't that apparent and the team very quickly sort of closed ranks around him. And no one really knew, apart from the real insiders. And now is the big concern, of course, can he come back? Can he, first of all, get rid of it somehow? The experts that I've seen commenting said this thing can disappear after a couple of years, but nobody really knows. There's no hard rule. If it's under control, which it has been, by and large for the 12 months, can they control it enough without it interfering with his football? Because there was a sense that, as much as these medications help him deal with the illness, perhaps they blunt him a little bit when it comes to performing at his best. And they clearly tried a different regime and it hasn't worked so far. But maybe they can. I've read about a few footballers. I don't know how much this is in the open. So I'm not going to mention their names, but footballers who've dealt with this throughout their careers and nobody really knew that they've been suffering from epilepsy. So I think there is a way. And right now we have to wait and see. But he will be in the squad for Friday's Open Against Struckout, which is a reading, encouraging sign. He wants to play. The doctors want him to play. He will be training fully. And I think he'll get some game time. And I think the reaction and the stadium when he comes on and from his teammates is going to be going to be amazing. So as much as it's a tragic story, I think there's actually a lot of things that are encouraging. A, in terms of how they've been managing it so far before everyone really knowing. But also the way he's been handled. I think the understanding, the openness, the love also within the club. And maybe a sense of this can work in the long term. Fingers crossed, I think it's the best we can say at this point. I think that, I mean, there's so much to I'm picked there. But I think that the point that you may raffer about the fact that a lot in the club and in the national team were aware of the situation. But the level of support that he's had to keep it confidential until it absolutely couldn't be. And it had to be out in the open and therefore this explanation had to be given. It is striking really because we don't see that now in the modern game. People keeping things like that confidential, do we, frankly? I think it shows how much they like him as a person. Because you know, this is the sort of thing if somebody is maybe not as popular in the dressing room. And people feel he's taking a space that I should have. You know, why is he playing, why I'm not playing, I'm fully fit. This guy is not fully fit. This is the sort of thing that agents or people around the club would have leaked quite happily. But I think there is a universal sense within the club. And I would say that he's such a nice, nice man. And that he deserves all the help he can get. And of course, keeping it quiet, keeping it confidential was the first step. Now that it's out in the open, they can, they can even do it in a more active way, in a more apparent way, if you will. And Vincent Company is also once again shown in the way communicated such a sensitive topic, almost to perfection. That he is really cut out, I think, for managing at this level. Because I don't think many managers would have handled it so well the way you spoke again in front of the media and explained everything. And the guy has just a lot of things going for him when it comes to dealing with difficult issues, and it's just one of them. I thought Arthur Mussolini's social media post to explain what happened was amazing as well in the transparency and the honesty of him just explaining. He could have just said some things that thank you for your well wishes or whatever you say and this kind of thing. But for him to take the time, probably with maybe not just him on his own, maybe he's team around him helping him to draft that social media post. But just to explain, and the thing as well is saying that he was not worried. You know that he's been dealing with this kind of exactly what Rafi explained also on his own before and that there's nothing to be worried. But when you saw Saibari's face with his new teammates who just arrived in the summer after the World Cup, after he collapsed and that one of the two families where he obviously lost consciousness or he fell on the pitch, Saibari looked so, so worried. So I think even that, even just communicating to your fans or to the football fans around the world whether the Bayern fans or not doesn't really matter so much. But also to your teammates and everything about what you feel and how you feel and what happened and what will happen. I think it was beautiful and I think a lot of players should also take notice of the way Muschela himself has responded to everything that happened to him. What it shows as well, Rafi is just the sort of tightness sense of community within Bayern, every aspect of the team, the players, the squad, the support staff. You know it just, it speaks volumes about that as well. Yeah and this is not something that perhaps would have happened a few years ago when addressing him had a very different dynamic. But you're right, I think that is one of the big takeaways in Munich which is such a leaky club but there's always noise and there's always agendas and there's always malls in the dressing room. This thing did not leak. As I said earlier there were whispers, a lot of people had heard stuff without really knowing what was going on. There was this big rumour in Turkey when a journalist was even arrested briefly saying that Galatasaray might take him this summer. And some people in Turkey were sort of hinting at issues that Bayern were having or that he was having. So even they had heard whispers or aromas but no one confirmed that no one leaked it and that for Bayern especially if you know all the history of the club is a very good sign at the moment. On Bayern more widely than the season, you mentioned Moceola will be in the squad when that kicks off that match this weekend. For them I imagine the main objective will be the Champions League this season presumably. 100%. Last year it was very much to double plus so the double is a must because they hadn't won the cup in five years and that was a big thing for them. Now they've done it all the focus will be on the Champions League but it's easier said than done because you know the Champions League is going to come down to one or two games in April and May. I mean what do you do until then? You can't just say, or maybe you can, I mean maybe you just as a PSG aficionator will both tell us differently. You can't just say let's just not play until until it really gets to the knockouts. Bayern can't because they are expected to win every game and every draw is a major talking point and a major crisis. Now of course and maybe we'll get to this I think the competition are not strong enough to take advantage even if Bayern were to drop a few points. But the way they are playing the way this team is jelling the way that even a Jarmann Mousiella not playing for long stretches last season and not playing always at his level last season. That didn't have that much of an effect either. So now that they've strengthened that position with Saibari and even Brown who can play there as we saw in the Super Cup against Dortmund. Bayern look more or less untouchable domestically. So yes the focus and perhaps even the pressure which so far hasn't been felt by company. But now I think the pressure will ramp up for them to get that extra, make that extra step in the Champions League. But it's a long long time until we see if that step happens or not and in the meantime they can just play at their best as does nothing else they can do. It's just that we've seen some teams already who played like the German Super Cup, PSG in France, City in England in similar games. Not being ready yet physically, probably even mentally some players still coming back after a lot of their superstars at those clubs usually go far in the World Cup. And yet Bayern shows up certainly for that first half against Dortmund and where incredible I thought. Like to the level where we know how good they are obviously before the first game of the season like this to have to be to look so sharp already. And the second half was not as convincing okay but the first half as just though they were outstanding. So they're ready already, I agree with Rafi I think it's a long time until those key matches in the Champions League and really last season all that Champions League campaign came down to that second leg against PSG after an incredible first leg obviously in Paris. But that game in Munich if they go their way I think they go and probably win it all as well. So it's those 90 minutes, half an hour, 60 minutes in one key game at some point that will I think decide their fate in the Champions League especially. But I just think they look so sharp already. I think if you're another German club starting with two guards on Friday night you have to be scared because I think they could literally smash every single team in their league. I mean this argument has been raging in Munich for a long long time you know is it better not to have any competition so you can take it easy and then you can focus on the Champions League or is it actually a disadvantage because you don't have the sharpness of playing top teams every week and then when you suddenly have a top team you can't make the step up. I think it's less of an issue in two cents one the squad is not really built to rest many players is still a fairly small squad. And last year you know cane yes you can take him off after 70 minutes if you fall in it up but he really missed the game. Or Lisa really missed the game, DS really missed the game because that is sort of how the squad is built and even now with the players that have come in it's still a fairly small squad. So by one that almost that that pressure on the big players to play every week and the second thing I think that's changed is the concept and the format of the Champions League with bigger games in total in sheer numbers. And a real sense that certainly it's Munich that you want to win everything because you want to have the best possible position in this table and they really you know they they want every game apart from the Arsenal one. I think that keeps the level perhaps slightly higher than in the days gone by where after four games you were qualified and then you had two games where you didn't play your best players at all. And then you only really start in February or March to play again. I think now that the Champions League is longer and is a bit more taxing even though the jeopardy is not as strong but at the same time you have stronger opposition for for for more games and for longer. It's helped the team like buy and to keep the the pressure and the intensity going. Five light sports. So here's the first ball of it soon. All the cricket you left. It lives on BBC sounds. Fast straight back down the ground. This girl. The ball by ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball cricket and it's the huge one. Two sports. It's up and down. It's up and down. Cricket on five life sport. Listen on BBC sounds. Five life sports. The Euroleaks. Listen on BBC sounds. Well, after three seasons away, one of Germany's biggest football clubs, Schalke, are back in the Bundesliga. And I'm delighted to say that the Schalke head coach, Miron Muselet, joins us now on Euroleaks. Hi, Miron. Good afternoon, everyone. How are you guys? We are great and great to speak to you. So talk us through how you are feeling, though, just a few days away from Schalke's first Bundesliga match in three years this weekend. Yeah, we're very much looking forward. It's been a long, long time. And I think we are ready. We're faced now a seven week intense, of course, preseason. I think we are well prepared, technically, technically, mentally. But in the end, you never know, but we are looking forward to the open of the season Sunday away against Augsburg. And like I said before, it's a huge, huge challenge. It's an exceeding last challenge, but we are Schalke. We are humble, but we are ambitious. These moments, these days building up to that first match back in the Bundesliga must be the reason why you took on this job. Yeah, we had a plan, I think, 14 months ago. We took over after the most devastating season in 125 years of history of Schalke. So it was a little bit of a mess, but we had the bravery and the courage from day one to turn things around to implement. Not only a new style of play to implement, just a new mindset. Schalke is still a giant. I think we have over one over 220,000 members. I think only by that we are the six biggest club in the world. Every single home game is sold out with 62,000. Then he knows it's big. But the reality is also that we've been now for a couple of years in the second Bundesliga. And getting promoted in the Bundesliga, it's also a big jump. Not more difference, maybe, to the jump of getting promoted from the championship into the Premier League. The task is just a huge one. But we are brave. We're going to face this with courage. And hopefully, in a year ago, we're going to still be a part of the Bundesliga. That's the plan for sure. Amiran, you spent six months in England with Plymouth. What did you learn from that experience? How was it for you? And I guess if Schalke comes knocking, this is a kind of project that you have to go for. How were those six months in England for you? Looking back to the six months in spending in Plymouth at Argyle, I just enjoyed every single day. It was always a dream for me as a coach, as a gaffer to work in England. The English style of play, I always admire the passion. It's just an honest, straight, aggressive football. You can win the crowd with a tackle, you know what I mean? So I always admire this. I enjoyed every single day in Plymouth. I just learned also how difficult, how tough, how competitive and super competitive the championship is. It's a brutal fight. You have to earn every, every point. The experience just helped me to take over the next step in my development as a coach. And of course, it helped me to find the next level in my coach in career with Schalke. Miran, I had a chance to see your team train in preseason. And I was amazed how in this little Austrian village in the Alps, hundreds of hundreds of Schalke fans in the middle of summer were congregating and following you. Were you having known about Schalke's size still taken aback by just how much passion and how much connection and community exists between the fans and the team? And can you harness that to help you and the team survive in the Bundesliga? Of course, I think you do your research before you enter a new project, before you choose a new club. And then you know that the Schalke is big, that they have a massive, massive fan base. But then when you hear you realize how big they are actually, so the Schalke fans are like crazy. This is something you don't see a lot in world football. So we had a preseason camp in Austria and we had around 1500 Schalke fans and families spending their holidays so they can be with us. They can be every single day on the pitch. So you need to take advantage out of this because I remember when we arrived 14 months ago, the team last year they have been scared to play in the Feltenzen in front of 62,000. It was like a heavy backpack, but we turned this completely around because I just realized this support and this energy of the fans can never be a disadvantage. This advantage, it has to be the biggest advantage for us. So we tried to work on this bound between the team, the club and the fans again, just to reunite. Because we knew then if we can manage this to get the fans there anyway there, but get the really back supporting this new project. This can be a massive boost. This can be a wave almost unstoppable. And in the end, we found this connection back again and then we got supported. Not only when we were playing Gilsik Kirichen, we had games last season, second division, second Bundesliga with 25 to 30,000 away fans. So that's just crazy. Yes, some season last year, Meron. Can I ask you about Loris Carrius and obviously the part he played in the club's promotion last season? Because obviously it took a little bit of time, I imagine, to revive his career, get his mentality back so he had confidence in himself again. Loris Carrius, I love to speak about him especially for BBC Radio 5, because the English audience, I guess he's very curious. He's a key performance player for us. He is the face of this new Schalke, the face of this new resilience, this new mindset after I think tough years behind him. He found a new home, he found new trust, so he was able like so many other players from Schalke who shared not only his experience. He played on a completely not a level, but also had some rough moments in their careers. But they found a new home, they found a safe heaven, and then he was just about let's do this together and let's start from scratch. And let's do it in our way. And I think Loris, he played a huge, huge part. You can just trust him, you can just rely on him with your eyes closed. When you, he's just there, he was like I said, key performance player. So we are very happy to have him, and we can count on him also for next years. Miron, just listening to you speak, it really strikes me that the part that you seem to really love about the work that you do is that sort of relationship that you build up with the players and sort of almost putting an arm around them as you obviously have been able to do with Loris. Of course, but I think that's the point of being a coach. Coaching is nothing else than changing behaviors, and we tried to change the behaviors from day one, knowing that everyone has an own story. Everyone has has something to prove, but also something to hide and it's just about us to stuff to find the right way to get everything out of the players. And I think we are just on a good, good way with Schalker. And you signed Ed and Jaco in January of this year as well. Tell us more about how that move came to happen. What convinced him to sign for the club when they were at the time of the second division? I'm telling you honestly, he called me Christmas. He called me Christmas and he told me look boss. I really want to join Schalker, and then I was like completely speechless. I grew up in Bosnia. I grew up in Austria, but I'm from Bosnia. And Ed and Jaco, for us, is Gary Limeca. He's a young boy. He's a French pecking boy. He's just an idol. He's a hero on and off the pitch. And then when you got a call by Ed and Jaco, and I thought he was maybe trying to ask me about some other players, some profiles. But he was so eager to join Schalker. He was like, let's do this. I can't wait to start. And then we started some things in the background to make it happen. Does it still surprise you now? Because you know, he joined in January, like you said halfway through the season. He played the part. He's his part. But he's almost the same age as you. He's just a little bit younger. Despite being this idol and the legend of not just Boston, football, but Europe and football and World Football. Where they still sometimes, as you know, when you looked at him and said, wow, is he still surprised you were in stuff that he was doing for you? Yeah, he's surprising me almost every single day. So in a positive way, he's just a role model for everyone. I remember the second home game we played at night. So we finished, we finished above midnight, and everybody's like returning home at one or two o'clock in the morning. And the next day, and the next day, I came into the office 73735 and Ed and Jaco was already there. So there's no co-incident why this guy is still able to perform on a. I don't want to name his to give the number of his office of his age, but that's not a surprise. That's not a, come on, he's 40 years old and he's still able to perform. That means he was super, super professional last 25 years. That's why he's a role model and that's why he will also have his impact and he will leave also his fingerprints in this upcoming Bundesliga season. Miran, we know that you are very influenced by the high pressing game and the counter pressing game. But when you have somebody like Ed in, who is a mature player. That's nice. That's not what we're saying. How do you then adapt without compromising your principles too much? But this is all about you have to, it's not about the way you want to play as a coach. It's about the profile you have in your squad. So if you have Ed in Jaco, then it's not about pressing and counter pressing. It's about how you can take advantage of one of the most little strikers in the last 20 years of football history. So you know what I mean. It's not about adding pressing or counter pressing is bringing Ed into the box so he can finalize. There's always a good balance without leaving your or losing your DNA and your style of play. It's the balance and I think we coaches can be everything, but not stubborn. There are always ways. It's not only one way. Miran, just before we let you go, I've got to ask you one more about a huge, huge match we're going to see at the start of December. The Derby against Dortmund 60,000 fans. The first time this match is going to be played since March 2023. I mean, how excited are you for that one? To be fair, I'll leave this then for this time because I'm so much in this next game approach, next game approach. I never lose my focus. And of course, everybody is looking forward for this big, big Derby. I think whole Germany is waiting for this match, but let's play first, the first 11 until we are there. And then we will also be there to face them. No doubt. Miran, thank you so much for being with us on your relates. Guys, it was a pleasure. Thank you very much. We speak soon. Ciao, ciao. All the best of the season, buh-bye. Raffa Jules, really fascinating to speak to Mir on there. And I mean, what do we think? Do we think Shauck have got enough Raffa to stay in the Bundesliga this season to avoid relegation? I think so. I think they're strong enough, especially with a support. With the way that they play, we heard about him finding a natural space and solutions for it in Jekyll, but they are very, very good off the ball to make it very difficult for your position to play. And they use, I think, that energy of the crowd really well. So I think they'll do it. It's not going to be easy. There aren't many teams where you look at them and think they are definitely worse than Shauck. So they can't take the status for granted. It is going to be a fight for survival, but I'm reasonably confident that they're going to do it. So we talked about Shauck, we talked about Buying Munich and how they're going to hope to challenge in Europe. Big question is, if anybody can actually challenge Buying in the Bundesliga this season, Raffa. And we'll get the sense of you certainly earlier that you don't think so. I mean, is there anybody that we can really talk about who could put together maybe something of a challenge for companies to? Challenge, I'm not sure, but I think it's worth talking about Dortmund because they have really refreshed aside. And we saw glimpses of that in the Super Cup. They were played as Jules said in the first half, but in the second half we saw enough of them, especially with the new players, Caritas and Constantinias, the new Constantinios, sorry, the new two Greek players that they brought to a very creative and really interesting. And I think along with Crystal Solis from Arsenal, might asher in sort of renaissance of Greek football a little bit. There's a lot of talent suddenly appearing and they play, they're a say, more attractive than the 2004 European winners did with a lot more creativity. But yeah, Dortmund, I think, have quality. Everyone is waiting for sort of the next step up under Niko Kovac. Which has done a wonderful job stabilizing the side. It looks as if they might not even make it for the Champions League when it took over after Nuri Shahin. Then last season, we'll solve it without being spectacular. They struggle usually against the bigger sides, but beat the smaller sides easily enough or comfortable enough. And now can they actually get to the point where they can challenge? And at least in the short run, beat a biomunic, beat an Arsenal, beat a man's city in a Champions League. And then they get back to that level where, as Klopp always said, we don't have to beat the best side, but we can beat the best side on our day. And that's going to be, I think, the big story about them. So they have to succeed on their own terms. It's not going to be about fighting Bayern for titles, but being a lot more consistent and being a much more better version of themselves. And I think that is why Dortmund are actually an interesting story. And, you know, this is a side that only two years ago won the Champions League Final. So we can see that there is quality there. If they put together a good run, then why shouldn't they, at least in Europe, challenge? And also, for example, in the cup where even Bayern can have an off day, push them hard. So I think Dortmund are going to be an interesting story, especially now that they're good neighbors and friends shy of her back. I think there's going to be a lot of attention on the roar side of football. And I think Dortmund might be a really positive story for this Bundesliga season. I think Dortmund are probably the most likely to compete or to be the best of the rest, really. I mean, I'm interested in what Raffi thinks about Bayern level cruising, because it's a new coach in Carlos Martinez, who we had in France. He was at to lose, where he did a good job considering the way the club is run with a lot of young players, a lot of movements in and out, so it's not always easy to find consistency for a young coach like him. And I thought some of the recruitment from H1, this new German prodigy to Afonso Morera, who they spent, I think, a lot of money from Lyon, but who is a very interesting player for them to have. I wonder what you think of this Bayern level cruising team. And without going back to the invincible of Chabilonso, obviously not that long ago, but if they could maybe certainly push Dortmund for that second place. Bayern is probably too far ahead, but maybe certainly for championship places, but maybe even second place. Yeah, I think on paper what you said, it looks really exciting. I just don't know how much time it's going to take with this new coach and a new team to gel. We saw it when they lost all their big players after the double. How too successive managers had a really hard time making this into a functioning side, especially after Shaka left, he was such a key player in bringing the dressing room together and having that leadership that traditionally Liverpoolers have lacked because of the profile of the players. When you always sign players who are on the cusp of becoming something bigger and then moving on, you don't necessarily get that coherence in the dressing room and that professionalism and everybody wanting to play for the shirt because everyone's thinking, what is my next step after this? I'm here for two years, but where can I play after? And Shaka and Alonso changed all of that. So I think it's a bit of an unknown. The quality is there and the players, I agree with you, but whether it can work collectively as quickly, after a short preseason or relatively short preseason with everyone being there, I think it might take them another season before we see a fully fledged challenge for the top two for them. What about Leipzig, Raffa? I mean, obviously, they're sort of starting this chapter without Yan Diamande and that's obviously a big loss for any side, recordless. Yeah, it's a big loss. He was one of the outstanding players in the Bundesliga and in European football, really, and of course had a great work up and replacing him, like for Leipzig, is going to be very difficult because they picked him up for very little money 12 months ago when perhaps other clubs were a little bit scared by the difficult situation around them when it came to his agents and so on and they took advantage. And now it's a bit of a rebuild as well for them, because they have Martin de Miquelis, who's come in after Olevena had a decent season and a lot of people were surprised that he got sacked, but for the liking of the bosses and Jürgen Klopp was one of them before he moved on to become German national coach. The team weren't aggressive enough and weren't playing the Red Bull style enough. It was too passive, a little bit too intricate, and de Miquelis is supposed to bring this back. But of course, he is still relatively unproven at this level as a coach. He's had experience, of course, in Argentina, he's had experience in Spain to an extent, but to be now in a Champions League, to be coaching a team that has an ambition to be fighting for titles, maybe not the league, but certainly the cup, which they've won a couple of times in the past, and to play a decent role in Europe. I think it's going to be a tall order, and my sense is that they might have a difficult season in this combination. We are rapidly running out of time, guys, just before you go, though. And I think I already know the answer to this from Raffer, given the Bundesliga starts this weekend. Anything you're looking forward to in particular in the coming weekend? I'm just happy the Bundesliga goes back. I did know to do myself on weekends. I tend to go to see a big Premier League game on Sunday, but the Saturdays have just been so empty. I don't know if my family will appreciate me saying this, but I just didn't know how to pass my day. So happy to have a bit of structure back in my life, and at 2.30 is that place on my sofa, where I just know I'm going to be there for two hours, and then probably fall asleep at some point. Oh, beautiful chose. Yeah, I agree with Raffer. I think it's going to be a great season. You've got the big boys like Schalke and Hamburg, who obviously stayed up from last season, who are there now, and they've been missing, and they've been missed, too, at this level, and then plus Bayern, and how much they dominate. Can they go on beaten the whole season, that kind of stuff? Who would finish second? I think there's a lot of interesting little stories within that season and the league, so that it should be a lot of fun, and the Bundesliga is always great to watch. It's always fun. It's always attacking. It's always intense, so I think a lot of the listeners should pay attention. That is it from us, guys. Jules Raffer, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Maas. At ESPN's Julian Laurent and German Football Expert, Raffer, Honigstein, with us. You're our leagues. We'll be back next Thursday, the third on BBC Radio 5 Live from 9 o'clock, and we'll, of course, be available as well as a podcast shortly afterwards. And if you're currently listening to this on the Football Daily podcast, EuroLeagues will soon be moving to a new home, just search for EuroLeagues on BBC Sounds, or the podcast platform of your choosing, for a brand new EuroLeagues-only feed. As always, thank you so much for listening. So much sport today, and all the goals, as they go in up and down the leagues. This is Five Life Sports. It's all ice in the lights, and Fetter Flops. It's a ball game. It's not a stop-up. It's really standing around the 18th green. Oh, I can't. I'm in sensational. He serves to the centre. I'm going to do it. Right hand, and before the champion is down, it's extraordinary stuff. They've done a show for us tonight. He gets on his knees and kisses the door. But Five Life Sports. The home of the world's greatest 14 events. Let's hear the ball. Five whistle. Listen on BBC Sounds. After three years away, Schalke, one of Germany's biggest clubs, are back in the Bundesliga. 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