Anatomy of a Wembley Classic: Tactical Detail, Fine Margins, and Tuchel's England Audit

This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hey, it's Roman Mars, host of the 100 Objects series. This week, I'm joined by former Mythbuster Adam Savage to dial into the story of the Bell Telephone, an invention that completely transformed the way we communicate. We'll uncover the history behind a very specific beloved model of the telephone, how it changed the world and the story behind when the most influential objects ever created. Listen to 100 Objects on the 99% of visible feed wherever you get your podcasts. But it was ultimately Spain who came out on top. An England will rule the Miss penalty from Harry Kane when he rattled the crossbar that might have taken it out of Spain's reach, but Spain came back. They leveled it to two and an oyer saddle with a winning goal 16 minutes from time. An England for the first time since 2013 have lost back-to-back matches at Wembley Stadium. It is finished in this nation's league opener in A3, an entertaining game. England 2, Spain 3. Elsewhere in A3, Czechia have been beaten this evening by Croatia, goals from Lukamodric and Marco Paselic, Hanna Croatia, a 2-1 win away from home. England, of course, on the road next stop, we will be with them on Tuesday night as they go to take on Czechia coverage, beginning on 5-live sport from 7 o'clock. We will be with them throughout this extended international period because then they travel to take on Croatia. That Saturday night, 5 o'clock kick off live on 5-live sport and then return back on time. So I'll choose the October 6 in the welcoming Czechia to Wembley. My name is Aaron Pockley. You also get the thoughts of Paul Robinson and Matt Upsen. Gentlemen, do you want to have it open ended? What would you like to say? We have thoughts after that defeat because there are so many positives that we could take and there are negatives. It's peaks and troughs, Paul. Yeah, I mean, there's two sides to that England performance. There's the susceptible England defensively looked to have defensive problems and looked vulnerable every time that Spain went forward on the back foot, left players open, gave away far too many chances, but saying that two of Spain's three goals came from individual errors that could have been avoided. And England looks so good on the front foot and going forward in the final third, what they created and the players that they have when they got the confidence back from suffering that blow of the early goal. Going one behind, you could see it really rock this England side and it rocked them for a good 15-16 minutes in this game and it took them a long time to come back into it and they played the way back into it. Thomas Tuckle would take a lot of heart from the way that his team played the way back in and they got the self into this game and for a large period of this game, they were the dominant side, they dominated possession, they had the territorial advantage, but they didn't create enough to go on and win a game. Spain's then quality came through and England's Achilles heel again was shown at the back, but what Thomas Tuckle will take from this is that he's side of got heart, they've got fight, but once again we're talking about a 19-minute performance, a 95-minute performance. They were good and probably the better team for large spells of that game, but not over the whole game. Can I just draw attention towards going on the picture right now? You see the Spain squad coming through, the subs, the coaching staff welcoming the players back into the dressing room. You look at England, it's sort of like a semi-melancholic trudge round, Wembley led by a harry game and it feels like he said lads, we have to do this and he's dragged him over to the far side. Wembley's near enough empty on that side, they've been over to the southwest corner, have the Spain players, but they're together and we mentioned a united, there are fours and no matter what the highs and lows were in this game, they were resilient Spain and we will talk about England of course, but the world champions just turned it on when they needed to. At this level, the little things really count and I think, if you were to step in inside their camps, save and start before training or at the beginning of training, they'll all do run those boxes. There's our unbelievable Spain. If you pass the ball the wrong side it gets cut out and it gets noticed and it gets flagged and it's like the detail that they have and the standards that they push and they press, I think is phenomenal and it's why they're the best in the world and I think looking at that as an example, you can learn a lot from how they operate and the value they put on those kind of things and you saw it in the game every now and then and Robo alluded to the fact that England had those surges, like the Anthony Gordon adrenaline rush moments which were brilliant and I think we looked at Threar and it was, it had character, it was bold, so a big tick in a lot of those boxes but then you start to peel back to those little management situations in the game where that little bit of fine detail matters. I thought we've got pulled out of position big time in terms of the back four, two centre backs, I thought Gair, he had a funny game which had really good one-on-one moments, he came out on top on quite a few occasions but then just was a little bit a yard or two out and against these guys you'll get punished and England did and that for me was the difference in the game, I think that management side of the game is huge when you play a team like Spain. I don't want this to be the football moment and it's not going to be the football moment because there were some exceptional bit to play in there from England in terms of you look at the direct nature of the running, Bakaia Saka fabulous every time you've got in the ball, really energetic, vibrant, caused them problems when he was cutting in on his left and unable to cause those issues, did we see enough of it, maybe not but again, signs but what I want to see more of is the boring stuff, not the high octane stuff, I think we delivered that today but then all those little things like Rodry conducting that midfield there, the safe side passing that he has, it doesn't give the ball away, a couple of times he gave away, started a second off, really uncharacteristic and England nearly scored but most of the time is moving it, it's just, it's so precise and measured and the movement of it and the out of possession they're just a little run up in terms of organisation and ability to do that and then the subs change, the subs were massive for me, they really impacted the game and Spain's again just kicked on and actually elevated that team for that 10-15 minute period with Bumpton to a good one, let's be honest, we've bumped into a good, that England performance tonight would have been enough to put any game to bet, and the long spells of pressure and ascendancy that they actually had but we've come into a side, once again we spoke so often tonight about England's record about the top 20, about the top 10, once again we've come up against the good and fallen short and that there's nothing more highlights that than the bench, Thomas Tuchel's in-game changes, affected the game in a negative way, they lost the flow, they lost their feeling, and they're the forward thinking, all of a sudden they were sitting deep allowing Spain possession and once they got in the ascendancy the quality that they've got, the two substitutes that they made, I mean a goal and two assists between them, I'm sorry two goals and the assists between them and that's a huge difference when you look at the bench and you look at a manager who's able to make that kind of an impact on a game. My pal Spike text me through the game and said it looks like they won the World Cup yesterday in terms of the fluidity of the movement, the way they do things with such effortless sort of you know it's just beautiful in places, it's poetry whereas at points we look cumbersome but again when we've direct and England push forward and they attack again Anthony Gordon excellent get your head down go for it and be a bit selfish and show your star quality and players try to show that but there were mistakes in places. It's because we're athletic, we're powerful, we've got good, we've got top talent, there's absolutely no doubt in that but if you're going to start to look at the elements of a team you can see why Spain are the best in the world. England would be an international level, if you make the mistakes that England did with the gay here in O'Reilly that led to Spain's first two goals, an international level regardless of the opposition you will be punished. On a positive side I think that Thomas Tuchel will be encouraged by seeing elements of what he wanted from the players and that must be more offensive than the World Cup to impose a Premier League style and what they've done tonight they've achieved more than what Portugal, France, Belgium and Argentina did against Spain at the World Cup by really giving Spain a good game of football and scoring two goals in the process and missing a penalty and missing a penalty so it is fine margins, I wouldn't be surprised if Tuchel uses that word fine margins not taken away from the fact that Spain with the fine margins could have already been tuna up it had they created, taken the chances they created in the first half. Taking my pundits hat off now and sitting there in Wembley as a fan I would much rather see England lose like that going down having a proper goal and a fight and enjoy a game of football watch that from an England team playing on the front foot not defending going forwards I would much rather see England losing having a goal at the World Champions than just giving them too much respect. You could see the crowd really getting into it but guys down it like they really enjoyed the game tonight the supporters got behind it everyone was off there see it had that because it flowed moments a second half especially it was like you ever go we ever go it really flowed well at moments and that's when the game was at its peak. Let's hear from the head coach Thomas Tuchel is with John Murray. They clearly are the best team of the World Champions number one in the world they don't need a helping hand do they? Yeah we helped too much we had too many individual big mistakes unfortunately on that kind of level started the game in the worst possible way made things very complicated for us the reaction was good so there's no one to blame this kind of things happen but they happen too often to us on that kind of level if you want to beat the best team it was too many gifts the reaction was good we still conceded two big chances from big mistakes in crucial areas without any pressure unforced errors then we stopped doing our mistakes we survived the two big chances grew into the game created more and more we were I think in the first half not clinical enough in the last 20 meters otherwise we could have created even more once we started to be precise we created then we converted chances we had the full momentum could have scored a third one in the first half second half was an excellent start maybe one of our best 20 minutes that I saw on this kind of level we're totally dominant clearly the better team lived in their half created chances opportunities and got the penalty and this is maybe unfortunately the decisive moment today I think in this moment when we go two goals up there's no way back for them and it didn't happen unfortunately another mistake for the two two and then the momentum shifted again and Harry Kane slipped didn't they taking the penalty yeah otherwise he normally doesn't miss yeah and I think anyone who is listening watching will realize that that clearly was a turning point yeah the there was a certain amount of embracing the chaos wasn't that tonight not so not so sure I think we defended like chaos in terms of I'm not sure if it was a lot of chaos today we were we had an incredible amount of high ball recoveries in the opponents half I think 15 more than in Spain overall I think 15 in total in the first half that only goes against the team like Spain if that only works if we play man-man so we were very brave that sometimes means that you follow and you are out of position but we did it on a high level got a lot of reward from it the defending in a deep block was excellent except for the third goal where we got cut open through the middle this should normally not happen and offensively I think we played in a clear structure we tried to switch switch off we tried to switch sides a lot we tried to put the full backs full backs up to to make the difference and and they did yeah a lot of good stuff but unfortunately not the result would you still say that you are closing the gap that there is between you and the top teams for no gap today except for the for the for the technical execution in the last 20 20 meters there was superior than us this is the football daily podcast we are in hey it's Roman Mars host of the 100 object series this week I'm joined by former mythbuster Adam Savage to dial into the story of the bell telephone and invention that completely transformed the way we communicate we'll uncover the history behind a very specific beloved model of the telephone how it changed the world and the story behind one of the most influential objects ever created listen to 100 objects on the 99% of visible feed wherever you get your podcasts in the early 90s women's tennis was having a moment this is a match that will live in the memory of all of us and just when tennis fans were looking their lips at the prospect of a rivalry that would push the sport to new heights one of the strangest and most shocking sporting crimes brought it to a grinding halt this man stole her story from her sports strangest crimes tennis star cast out listen on BBC sounds this is the football daily podcast we are in I really want to hone in on a point you made pregame which is talking about mentality about having that in the trenches mentality when you are put on the pressure and in you you picked on it I think was a 12 minute spell we said England had not created anything and you referred back to being in the 66 minute yeah and that was a 78th from what I remember and what I've got written down here how do we get out of that Matt how do we get out of that gear when it's a case of we are it's backed back to the wall we we need to start progressing further up the pitch I think it's small steps I don't think you can jump from where we were in that reaction in the world couple against Argentina to now all of a sudden it being right so was it a step forward tonight yeah I think it was I thought the way we approached it when we we went to one up was very good half time I thought this is going to be really interesting because Spain got a chance to come back out we've got 50 minutes to sit around you're not you're out of that rhythm you've got to come back out and how are you going to impose yourself on the game for the first 15 minutes of the second after we're brilliant produced chance of Spain could cope with his rod forcing Rodney into errors with the ball out of possession we're all over them so that reaction we play with a belief that we were better than Spain and it showed and we could have gone three one up and at that point we may well have won the game absolutely so from from that perspective I thought there was a big jump but then to continue to do that when the other team are then starting to get in their rhythm that for me is where that detail starts to kick in and keeping that ball passing its safe side making that decision to drop off instead of go it like all those little in-game management decisions that are happening every second of the game between 11 players that's when that really does count and you say Spain look really in sync don't they when they when they're in that flow again told us it's a 30 year process that's what I mean it's all the information yeah that they they took and now they've got players that make really intelligent choices on the field I think that's our next bit that we we work out but there was some really good signs tonight could they've done with a bit more from the crowd no I thought they're excellent tonight so the corner you could hear them well of course yeah that when when they're winning you can but and they're they're the world champions so they're coming here for a celebration this is the first game since the World Cup final but no the England fans were absolutely outstanding tonight the atmosphere was building before the game the the power of techniques before the game the the show that they put on this is the best atmosphere that I've seen in Wembley for a long time granted we're playing against the world champions and there's a lot of build up before the game and it was a sellout but I do think that the crowd played their part in a good way this evening Matt yeah I thought the I thought the game offered up something that was worth getting out of your seat for at times and that's what we saw from the support it was a good watch it was a good watch it was worth the entrance thing absolutely and you can't say that about that many of the games that we've had here over the last couple of seasons haven't been anywhere near as as level and as as combative as what this was with them without the ball and the crowd really enjoyed it so from a defender's point of view tomorrow morning when you sit you watch the analysis and you watch the game back how do you start to repair the leaks the gaps because spaying cut through just a little bit too easily yeah you I done that you can continue to make those errors can you so you know might get he for instance will think well start of a game at this level can I afford to be that relaxed in that moment it's quite a relaxed player anyway that's it's it's a good trait of his because he's very calm but that that there's start of the game right I'm stepping in with the ball I can't turn out here if I need to spin it up the channel and into space and give away possession that's not a disaster the ball's safe and we'll get up the pitch you know those little in-game decisions that have affected the outcome of the game you have to go away and you have to log that next time that situation occurs you have to make a different choice and if you don't you have to get pulled up on it and and and then the consequences will be what there be some people will keep working and it's something you might lose your place in the team you know whatever the manager feels is right but that for me is then building towards making those decisions right and if we if we did that better Anthony Gordon said then the result would have been different man hold on we're going to head down to the bowels of Wembley Stadium because Anthony Gordon is we're football correspondent John Murray yes he is Anthony Gordon here in front of me um well just give us a reaction Anthony you're reading of what happened tonight yeah um good game one I thought we were in control of the penalties and massive moments I think if that goes in we're in a much better place than obviously when it doesn't or he'd slips and it's football's not you can do out a moment like that I thought all they goals were based from wasraeli I thought they were there are mistakes and I think at that level against that opposition it's kind of hard to do that there was an element wasn't there of embracing the chaos at times in that match there were a lot of different passages to it weren't yeah I felt good like I said it was a bit of a rollercoaster of a match but I always felt what like we were in it you know I mean I didn't feel like we were treated um just speaking about the summer and everything that's gone all the controversy I didn't feel like that was the case I felt that we went for it it was must have been a great game to watch our match and for fans um we've got a game to play in and I have said just mistakes at the highest level always going to punish her yeah it almost was a Premier League style match which I know we were talking about earlier in the week problem is they are world champions world number one European champions they are a very good team aren't they and they showed it tonight yeah they're the best in the world for a reason I think the difference with them is if they get the lead like once it went to three two you see their ability to rarely control possession and that's what I spoke earlier this week about once you give them that lead and it can be anyone knows any team in the world and just think it's going to be really difficult to get the ball back I think again someone like that you've really got to go for the throat which we did we come out really well second off and I think the penalty was a massive momentum shift and already this week we've spoken to you about being disappointed that you were substituted off in the semi-final having scored tonight as well I guess you were disappointed again um I'm always disappointed when I come off only just because I want to score more goals and I want to be part of every part of the game I want to get more assist I want to excite people who are watching me but tonight I felt like it was a maybe the right decision because I felt a bit tired I've done a lot of long distance running and um I really really high speed so tonight I've got no complaints with the with the manager taking me off he he don't want what was best for the team I thought Morgan with his uh with his energy with his athleticism um was a good substitute bit you know to come on the pitch and really making impact and yeah tonight's got no issues so just sum it up just the feeling you'll go away from this tonight with kind of mixed because I feel good I feel like we performed I feel like we were good um we went through the throat we kind of done everything people have wanted and what we've asked of ourselves we just lost to the best in the world but I said earlier the gaps are not big in my mind and I think tonight proved that we just need to obviously not make mistakes at the highest level thanks Anthony thanks for coming over thank you so much Sean for our correspondent John Murray with England's Anthony Gordon there peppy uh he was up beat following that defeat he says the gap is is is close there is no real gap to Spain England have been beaten here at Wembley tonight but my ups and and just some really interesting takes from the half of that is actually when he stood back on us too could take him off yeah interesting money I think I think it may have made the best decision for him but maybe not the best decision for the team if he said he felt a bit tired and a lot of hot lot of high intensity runs because he used that adrenaline surge player isn't he so when he goes it's high octane and it's high energy and high effort but I couldn't see a positive to taking him off but the game was so finely balanced at that point the I just felt having him on the field he was the one player for me that was actually leading the charge so it just felt like it ran out of a little bit of steam once he went off the field he was very diplomatic almost like somebody had a word with him about his previous comments about the manager taking him off well Paul let's hear from another England player jarre quonset is with John yes we've already heard from Anthony Gordon and here is Jarelle quonset starting at right back tonight um just give us your overview on how it went tonight yeah I think for the neutral it was a good game um obviously they took the lead early doors and yeah fighting from adversity and coming from two one down there one no down sorry it was um really good we show great mentality and I feel I feel like after half time as well we we managed to really step on the front and really try and give it a good go and yeah and another day we go free one up and meet we kill the game and um but unfortunately we couldn't and when they had a bit of momentum they were able to capitalise and probably that's the biggest takeaway from today did you think you might get the Norders right back tonight yeah it's hard to say because obviously we're putting in positions and you're always competing against the best in the world in my opinion so um yeah it's always tough and you're always fighting so um you always got to be ready for any occasion and you are playing there this season more often than central defense aren't you yeah it seems to be that way um how would you feel about that yeah of course it's it's something different for me I've not really played there for even when I was younger either so sort of learning on the job and it's um it's definitely different but I feel like I've got um a lot of power a lot of pace on the on the side and yeah I'm still getting used to the position and I feel like I'm off for a lot in in different ways is the opponent spain tonight I mean obviously they're the world champions and they they are the benchmark aren't they yeah of course they're the world champions are the the best team in the world and we went toe to toe with them tonight and um like I say before in in in another day I feel like we can we can win that game and we can really um put a statement but in football you never know what can happen and um obviously the opposite happen for it's this time but hopefully we can we can draw the positives and next time we play them we can turn it into a positive result thanks to help appreciate that thank you John thank you so much uh Paul Maum I just want to want to ask with this extended international break it it's good isn't it we we we we sort of really bemoan pre-world cup how little time Thomas Tukohad with his England players to come and and sort of you know put ideas together but having a run of four games uh in a two-week window it feels very domestic seasony and it's kind of nice for them to be together and to try and build on something choose their night you go again yeah I don't mind I don't mind the way that the the international break's been done from a Premier League point of view as well I think it helps the Premier League and actually from Thomas Tukohad's point of view he gets his players together but actually we always say that managers don't have enough time with their players and you know international managers are starved of time on the training field with their players but let's see what he does in the coming three games because you only learn things if you play together regularly as a team if he's going to change a lot of personnel each game I'm not so sure than what he sees on the training ground he's going to progress the team with Matt what about the foundation for for Tuesday do you keep the core of this team together as Paul says you make mass changes and it is just disjointed again I don't I don't think I think you have to look kind of beyond that I think well this is it's never been more of a squad game is it we saw with Spain tonight so regardless of who's playing the this is what the squad's about these are the decision making triggers this is the ethos of what we're trying to do it's got to be everyone Aaron isn't it it's not just the 11 players that that need to be you know onside and in the loop and doing all the right things it's the whole squad so I think the fact that it changes is helpful you still got to maintain the same messaging the same qualities what what they're looking for and I think that's that's really really important England's next game on Tuesday night comes you live from Prague they take on check here that one live on five live sport during Kelly summers and the team from seven o'clock on BBC sounds and on five live sport thanks to Paul Robinson Matt Ubson and Ian Dennis on the next episode of the football day it's the football interview with Cavitia Cavarratt Scalier and Usman Dembele this is the football story of the century it's pandemonium it's ecstasy it's an authoritarian regime for the past 15 years English football has been dominated by Manchester City they are champions again but not only that they've won it four years running and no one's 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