🎙️ Football Daily (BBC Radio 5 Live) •September 29, 2026 •⏱️ 34 min

Premier League confirm Man City guilty of all charges - 5 Live Reaction

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1. Executive Overview: Core Theses & Key Revelations

The release of the Premier League’s findings regarding Manchester City Football Club represents a watershed moment in the history of global sport. For nearly two decades, the modern football landscape operated under the shadow of unprecedented financial expansion, state-backed capital injection, and intense legal sparring between regulatory bodies and elite institutions. The findings published by the Premier League’s independent commission dismantle the narrative of financial compliance that Manchester City had maintained since the 2008 acquisition by the Abu Dhabi United Group. By confirming guilt across multiple breaches spanning nine consecutive seasons from 2009–10 through 2017–18, the commission has laid bare an unprecedented framework of institutional deception, disguised equity funding, and witness dishonesty.

In an emergency reaction broadcast on BBC Radio 5 Live’s Football Daily, a panel of authoritative investigative journalists, financial analysts, former governance figures, and professional players unpacked the seismic scope of the verdict. The transcript reveals not merely a technical infraction of Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSR), but what football finance expert Kieran Maguire termed a coordinated and concerted campaign to falsify and fraudulently represent the financial condition of the football club. At the absolute core of the commission’s conclusions is the revelation that Manchester City utilized a disguised funding scheme totaling nearly £1 billion. Specifically, while the club claimed £949 million in legitimate commercial sponsorship income across the audited period, the commission established that the true commercial income was a fraction of that figure—just £190 million. The remaining £759 million was directly funneled by the club's ultimate ownership structure under the guise of third-party commercial transactions.

This structural inflation of commercial revenue created an extraordinary competitive asymmetry. As Maguire calculated, across the nine-year period under scrutiny, the average total revenue generated by Manchester City's primary "Big Six" domestic rivals—Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Tottenham Hotspur—stood at approximately £2.9 billion. By artificially inflating their commercial balance sheet by over £830 million, Manchester City effectively secured a £1-in-£3 financial advantage over every domestic competitor against whom they contended for titles, Champions League qualification, elite manager recruitment, and world-class player acquisition. This was not a marginal accounting dispute or an interpretation of ambiguous cost-allocation rules; it was an structural distortion of the market economy of European football.

Equally devastating to Manchester City’s global standing and legal recourse is the commission’s explicit finding regarding witness integrity and institutional posture. BBC Football Issues Correspondent Dale Johnson highlighted that the club’s systematic failure to cooperate with the Premier League’s investigation—combined with the formal determination that factual witnesses called on behalf of the club delivered false and dishonest testimony—completely neutralizes any potential for legal mitigation during the upcoming sanctioning phase. In regulatory jurisprudence, good-faith cooperation and honest disclosure represent the primary mechanisms through which non-compliant entities mitigate penalties. With dishonesty established as an aggravating factor, the independent commission faces no regulatory impediment to imposing the most severe sanctions in the history of professional football, ranging from catastrophic point deductions to outright expulsion from the top flight.

2. Context & Background: The Landscape Leading to This Conversation

To fully grasp the magnitude of the Premier League’s verdict and the emergency dialogue captured on 5 Live, one must trace the structural evolution of European football regulation over the past fifteen years. Following the 2008 takeover of Manchester City by Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan, European football entered an era characterized by state-backed sovereign wealth altering the traditional competitive hierarchy. In response to skyrocketing player valuations, wage-to-turnover ratios exceeding sustainable levels, and hyper-inflationary owner bailouts, both UEFA and the Premier League established cost-control frameworks. UEFA introduced Financial Fair Play (FFP) in 2010, while the Premier League subsequently enacted its Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSR), mandating that clubs operate within strict loss thresholds over rolling three-year reporting cycles.

For established legacy clubs, these regulations served to preserve economic equilibrium by anchoring squad spending to organically generated matchday, broadcasting, and commercial revenues. For ambitious non-established clubs attempting to break the existing glass ceiling, however, financial rules posed a formidable structural barrier. Clubs such as Aston Villa, Newcastle United, and Everton found their capacity to invest constrained by their existing revenue baselines. Manchester City, by contrast, appeared to seamlessly bridge the financial divide within three years of acquisition, reporting explosive commercial revenue growth that outpaced centuries-old global sporting brands.

The legitimacy of this economic transformation was previously challenged by UEFA in 2019, when the European governing body issued a two-year Champions League ban and a €30 million fine against Manchester City for severe breaches of FFP regulations. However, in July 2020, the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) overturned the ban on appeal. That landmark decision did not exonerate Manchester City on the underlying substance of disguising owner equity as commercial income; rather, CAS ruled that a significant portion of UEFA’s charges were barred by time restrictions under UEFA's own five-year statute of limitations rules. The Premier League’s regulatory charter, importantly, contains no such statute of limitations. Unbound by temporal restrictions, the Premier League conducted a forensic five-year investigation that scrutinized every financial document, internal email ledger, sponsorship contract, and bank transaction dating back to the inception of the Abu Dhabi ownership era.

The contrast between the UEFA CAS ruling and the Premier League’s current verdict highlights the pivotal legal distinction between procedural time-barring and substantive innocence. When the Premier League released its findings, it confirmed guilt across all core financial charges, establishing that the underlying documentation presented by Manchester City during the audited period was fundamentally compromised. This historical context frames the profound sense of shock, anger, and institutional finality expressed by the journalists and analysts throughout the BBC Radio 5 Live discussion.

3. Deep-Dive Thematic Breakdown

3.1 The Geometry of 'Sham Contracts': The £830m Commercial Deception

The technical core of the commission’s ruling centers upon the mechanism described in the report as "sham contracts." Football finance specialist Kieran Maguire provided a precise forensic dissection of how this financial camouflage operated across successive seasons. Under Premier League regulations, a club’s allowable spending on player transfer amortisation and squad wages is directly tied to its legitimate turnover, comprised of matchday receipts, broadcasting distributions, and commercial partnerships. To artificially expand their allowable spending limit without breaching loss caps, Manchester City entered into sponsorship agreements with entities primarily based in Abu Dhabi, including airline operators, telecommunications conglomerates, and investment vehicles.

The commission uncovered that these contracts were structurally fraudulent. For every £1 delivered to the club’s accounts from genuine corporate sponsors, approximately £8 was covertly provided by the club's ultimate owners through offshore financial channels. This supplemental capital was then logged on the club’s official financial statements as legitimate third-party commercial revenue. Over the nine-year period analyzed, this mechanism generated an overstatement of commercial income totaling £830 million.

Financial Metric / Revenue Stream Reported Figure (MCFC Accounts) Commission Verified Actual Figure Discrepancy / Disguised Equity
Total Sponsorship Revenue (2009–2018) £949 Million £190 Million £759 Million (Direct Owner Funding)
Total Commercial Overstatement £1.12 Billion (Aggregated) £290 Million (Legitimate) £830 Million (Inflated Advantage)
Ratio of Owner-to-Sponsor Capital 8 : 1 (Underlying) 1 : 1 (Standard Partner) 87.5% Disguised Owner Contribution
Big Six Competitive Revenue Gap £2.9 Billion (Peer Avg) £2.07 Billion (Adjusted MCFC) £1 in £3 Unfair Spending Advantage

By registering £949 million in sponsorship revenue rather than the true figure of £190 million, Manchester City created an artificial balance sheet capable of absorbing astronomically high transfer fees and wage packages. This mechanism allowed the club to acquire elite international talent, retain world-class managerial staff, and build state-of-the-art training infrastructure while technically appearing to operate within the financial boundaries set by PSR. The commission’s explicit branding of these agreements as "sham contracts" eight separate times in its documentation establishes that the club’s board engaged in deliberate, long-term financial misrepresentation.

3.2 Witness Dishonesty & The Annihilation of Legal Mitigation

In regulatory disciplinary proceedings, the determination of guilt represents only the first phase of adjudication; the subsequent determination of penalties depends heavily upon mitigating and aggravating factors. BBC Football Issues Correspondent Dale Johnson delivered a incisive legal evaluation of why Manchester City’s strategic posture throughout the investigation has effectively eliminated any prospect of leniency.

In standard sporting tribunal cases, clubs accused of financial non-compliance—such as Everton or Nottingham Forest—frequently secure reduced point deductions by demonstrating active cooperation, submitting transparent records, and acknowledging accounting errors. Manchester City pursued the polar opposite strategy. The commission recorded that the club engaged in a concerted, multi-year effort to delay, frustrate, and obstruct the Premier League’s investigation. More severely, the commission concluded that key factual witnesses called by Manchester City delivered evidence that was knowingly false and dishonest.

Maguire noted the upcoming publication of "Appendix 6," an official supplementary document that will explicitly identify by name the individual corporate executives and witnesses whose credibility was utterly rejected by the commission. In legal terms, when a party presents dishonest witness testimony under formal cross-examination, that dishonesty transitions from a procedural defense failure into a severe aggravating factor. Consequently, when the independent sanctioning commission convenes to evaluate penalties, Manchester City will possess zero legal mitigation. The Premier League’s legal counsel will present the witness dishonesty as justification for structural punitive measures that reflect the total breakdown of good faith required between a member club and the governing league.

3.3 Beyond the Football Authorities: Fraud, Audit Deception, and Criminality

The gravity of the commission’s conclusions extends far beyond administrative sporting penalties, entering the realm of corporate fraud and criminal liability. Excerpts from former Football Association Chairman and former Manchester City Chairman David Bernstein reflected an unprecedented level of alarm regarding the systemic nature of the violations. Bernstein characterized the report as "damning beyond belief," noting that the creation of forged documentation and the systematic deception of independent auditors over nearly a decade crosses the threshold into corporate misconduct that transcends sporting jurisdiction.

For nine consecutive years, Manchester City submitted audited annual accounts to Companies House, the Premier League, UEFA, and external auditing firms such as Ernst & Young. These official filings contained explicit representations that commercial revenues were derived from genuine, arm’s-length third-party corporate entities. If those financial statements were compiled using sham contracts and disguised owner equity transfers, the board of directors and signing executives certified documents known to be materially inaccurate.

As Bernstein highlighted, when financial deception reaches a scale of nearly £1 billion, it ceases to be merely a violation of domestic football bylaws; it intersects with statutory corporate law, tax compliance regulations, and fraud legislation. The falsification of books and records, combined with misleading independent auditors, exposes responsible executives to potential investigations by external statutory authorities, including the Serious Fraud Office (SFO), HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), and financial regulatory bodies. The panel agreed that the legal ramifications of this verdict could trigger civil litigation from rival clubs and systemic regulatory restructuring across the broader sports industry.

3.4 Dressing Room Dynamics: The Siege Mentality vs. Relegation Exodus

While the financial and legal dimensions dominated the initial findings, the human and operational crisis inside the football club presents an immediate tactical challenge for manager Pep Guardiola and his playing squad. Former England goalkeeper Paul Robinson provided an acute insider analysis of dressing room mechanics during institutional crises, contrasting short-term psychological coping mechanisms with long-term structural collapse.

In the immediate aftermath of the ruling, Robinson noted that elite managers excel at transforming external hostility into a tactical asset. Guardiola can construct a fierce "siege mentality"—a psychological narrative positioning the squad as an isolated brotherhood battling against an envious football establishment, hostile media, and opposing supporters. In the short term, this us-against-the-world framing can serve as an intense operational catalyst, driving performance levels on the pitch as players channel anger into competitive focus. However, Robinson emphasized that this psychological shield carries a strict expiration date, dependent entirely upon the severity of the ultimate sanctions imposed.

Should the independent commission issue penalties involving automatic relegation to the English Football League (EFL) or severe multi-division demotion, the siege mentality will instantly dissolve into structural disintegration. Financial analyst Kieran Maguire underscored the economic impossibility of maintaining Manchester City’s current playing squad outside the Premier League. In the event of demotion, the club would suffer an immediate, catastrophic collapse in broadcasting distributions, European prize money, and commercial partnership value. Under EFL financial regulations—which strictly enforce cost-control ratios limiting player wage spending to 85% of total club revenue—Manchester City would be legally prohibited from paying its current wage bill. The result would be an immediate, forced fire sale of world-class assets, leading to an exodus of elite international players, contract cancellations, and a complete breakdown of squad continuity.

3.5 Fan Disillusionment and the Tarnished Era

The emotional apex of the BBC Radio 5 Live broadcast emerged during the interview with long-standing Manchester City supporter Rachel Hurts. Her raw, unvarnished reaction captured the profound existential crisis confronting the club’s fanbase. For over a decade, Manchester City supporters celebrated an era of unprecedented domestic dominance, securing multiple Premier League titles, domestic cups, and European trophies under the belief that their success was engineered through superior tactical vision, elite talent identification, and visionary executive management.

Hurts articulated a emotional trajectory reflecting the classic stages of grief—moving from initial shock and denial to profound confusion and betrayal. Despite the club's aggressive public relations posture claiming possession of "irrefutable evidence," supporters are forced to confront the reality that when presented to an independent legal tribunal, that evidence was thoroughly refuted and discredited. The language of the Premier League statement—utilizing descriptors such as "sham," "dishonest," and "misleading"—instantly attaches a permanent cultural asterisk to every trophy, record, and victory achieved during the audited period.

Furthermore, Hurts highlighted the immediate real-world consequences for rank-and-file match-going supporters. Fans wearing club colors in public spaces report experiencing vocal harassment, ridicule, and hostility, branded as defenders of systemic cheating. Regardless of subsequent legal appeals or procedural delays, the verdict inflicts irreparable damage upon the club's identity. The psychological contract between the institution and its supporters has been severely fractured, leaving fans to navigate the painful reality that their greatest era of sporting glory was structurally enabled by financial misrepresentation.

4. Speaker Perspectives & Analytical Contrast

The BBC Radio 5 Live emergency coverage assembled a diverse cross-section of domain experts, each scrutinizing the Premier League statement through a distinct professional lens. Analyzing the contrast between these analytical perspectives illuminates how legal, financial, tactical, and governance realities intersect during a crisis of this magnitude.

Speaker / Role Primary Focus / Lens Central Analytical Conclusion Strategic Tone & Posture
Kieran Maguire
(Football Finance Expert)
Forensic Accounting & Balance Sheet Integrity Quantified the £830m commercial inflation, the 8:1 owner-to-sponsor funding ratio, and the absolute economic impossibility of squad wage retention under EFL demotion. Analytical, objective, relentless quantitative precision.
Dale Johnson
(BBC Football Issues)
Legal Frameworks & Regulatory Precedent Identified witness dishonesty as a fatal aggravating factor that completely eliminates legal mitigation during the sanctioning phase. Authoritative, legally grounded, measured regulatory assessment.
John Murray
(BBC Football Correspondent)
Broadcasting Lexicon & Historical Context Emphasized the permanence of the term "sham" in footballing parlance and the unprecedented anger embedded in the Premier League's official release. Historical, reflective, focused on cultural impact.
Paul Robinson
(Former England Goalkeeper)
Dressing Room Psychology & Player Dynamics Analyzed the short-term utility of Pep Guardiola’s "siege mentality" versus the catastrophic reality of a squad fire sale and transfer embargo. Pragmatic, insider athlete experience, dressing-room realistic.
David Bernstein
(Former FA & MCFC Chairman)
Institutional Governance & Corporate Fraud Framed the violations as a deep-seated form of corporate deception involving forged documentation that transcends football jurisdiction into statutory law. Gravitational, uncompromising, governance-focused condemnation.
Rachel Hurts
(Manchester City Supporter)
Fan Identity & Emotional Reality Captured the disillusionment, street harassment, and identity crisis of supporters realizing their era of success carries an indelible asterisk. Vulnerable, conflicted, authentic supporter perspective.

The dialogue revealed a sharp analytical divergence between the formal legal communications released by Manchester City's corporate communications apparatus and the objective realities established by the panel. While the club’s official statement maintained a combative, defensive posture asserting complete innocence, the panel unanimously treated the commission's findings as a settled factual baseline. Kieran Maguire’s rigorous financial data provided the mathematical foundation showing how disguised funding distorted market competition, while Dale Johnson’s legal analysis closed off avenues of procedural escape. Meanwhile, David Bernstein provided the institutional weight, reframing the issue from a sporting disagreement into a potential corporate criminal matter. This multi-layered synthesis established that Manchester City's defense had collapsed across financial, legal, and governance dimensions simultaneously.

5. Strategic & Industry Implications

The implications of Manchester City being found guilty of systemic, long-term financial misrepresentation extend across every layer of the global football economy. The verdict fundamentally alters the relationship between sovereign-backed sports entities, domestic league governance, and international regulatory compliance.

First, the decision re-establishes the enforceability of domestic financial regulations. For years, critics argued that financial fair play frameworks were inherently toothless when confronted by unlimited sovereign wealth and sophisticated legal obstruction. By successfully prosecuting a multi-year, forensic investigation against the dominant footballing entity of the modern era, the Premier League has demonstrated that regulatory compliance cannot be bypassed through complex offshore financial engineering or aggressive litigation. This victory bolsters the authority of domestic leagues seeking to maintain economic balance against state-backed financial dominance.

Second, the ruling creates immense civil exposure and financial liability within the domestic ecosystem. Rival Premier League clubs that suffered direct sporting and financial detriment during the nine-year period under scrutiny now possess clear grounds for substantial civil litigation. Clubs that missed out on Premier League titles, Champions League qualification slots, broadcast payouts, and commercial sponsorships due to competing against an artificially inflated opponent may seek billions of pounds in financial restitution through independent arbitration or civil courts. For example, clubs finishing second behind Manchester City during title races, or those relegated by narrow margins while City operated outside financial rules, suffer quantifiable economic harm directly traceable to the fraudulent balance sheets established by the commission.

Third, the precedent dramatically alters future investment models for global multi-club ownership groups and sovereign wealth funds. Investors entering European sport must now recognize that disguised equity injections, artificial commercial valuations, and non-cooperative regulatory tactics carry existential risks. The threat of retroactive stripping of titles, catastrophic point deductions, transfer embargoes, and corporate governance intervention redefines the risk-reward calculus for state-aligned investment in professional sports.

6. Looking Ahead: Unresolved Questions & Next Milestones

As the football world digests this historic ruling, attention shifts immediately to the upcoming sanctioning phase and the complex legal aftermath. The independent commission’s determination of guilt marks the end of the investigative process, but it initiates an unprecedented phase of punitive adjudication and operational restructuring.

The immediate next milestone is the convening of the independent commission’s dedicated sanctioning panel. Unlike standard disciplinary matters governed by fixed tariff charts, the panel possesses unrestricted discretion regarding penalties. Key variables and markers to monitor in the coming months include:

  • Publication of Appendix 6: The formal release of the document identifying by name the executive officers and factual witnesses deemed dishonest by the commission, establishing individual accountability.
  • Quantum of Sanctions: The determination of whether penalties will take the form of an unprecedented triple-digit point deduction (e.g., 60 to 100+ points), retroactive title stripping for seasons between 2009 and 2018, or outright expulsion from the Premier League structure.
  • EFL Integration & Financial Rule Compliance: Should demotion be ordered, how the Football League will enforce its 85% squad wage cap on a club with active long-term player contracts exceeding hundreds of millions of pounds.
  • Squad Fire Sale & Player Contract Status: The triggering of force majeure clauses, bilateral contract terminations, or emergency transfer windows as elite international players seek immediate departures to maintain top-tier European competition.
  • Civil Litigation Claims: The formal filing of damages claims by rival Premier League clubs seeking financial compensation for lost prize money, Champions League revenue, and commercial opportunities.
  • External Statutory & Criminal Investigations: Potential proceedings initiated by statutory corporate regulators, tax authorities (HMRC), or serious fraud enforcement agencies examining the falsification of official corporate filings.

The resolution of these questions will shape the governance, economic structure, and competitive dynamics of professional football for decades to come. Manchester City’s guilty verdict marks the end of an era of unchecked financial expansion and establishes a uncompromising benchmark for financial integrity in modern sport.

💬 Key Quotes & Speaker Breakdown

Sham contracts

"For every £1 that was coming from the sponsors, around about £8 was actually coming from the club owners and this was being added... Manchester City was pretending it was receiving a lot of money from the sponsors."

— Kieran McGuire

Witness integrity

"Evidence given by a number of important factual witnesses called to give evidence on behalf of the club was false and that certain of those factual witnesses have given evidence at the hearing that they knew to be untrue and so had been dishonest."

— Kieran McGuire

Manchester City financial charges

"Manchester City effectively were getting £1 in three benefits when they were competing with other clubs for recruiting players, paying wages and so on, so the numbers involved are staggering."

— Kieran McGuire

"It is damning beyond belief really. They've talked about producing forced documentation and a pattern of behavior over a number of years that is really quite unbelievable."

— David Bernstein

Legal proceedings and sanctions

"There is no mitigation for this whatsoever; it's actually going to be an aggravating factor rather than a mitigating factor, and any hope that City could have to use something like this to reduce the penalty they will get will not apply in this case."

— Dale Johnson

Potential legal ramifications

"If it is a deep-seated form of fraud, then I'm not a lawyer, but it is something that is so serious that it goes beyond the football authorities."

— David Bernstein

Potential relegation impact

"There will be an exodus of players and also from a practical point of view, Manchester City cannot afford to pay the wages should they be relegated."

— Kieran McGuire

Team management

"The manager can use this as a catalyst as a voice in the dressing room; he can create what you said like a siege mentality and us against the rest of the world."

— Paul Robinson

Premier League statement

"Now that word 'sham' is going to be associated with this case; that is going to become part of the footballing parlance for years to come."

— John Murray

Player morale and future

"I don't think that this will affect the players because I think going forward they are going to be Manchester City players until they're obviously told otherwise, but I think when it's affecting your everyday life... then it does become an issue."

— Paul Robinson

Fan reaction

"I'm a little bit confused by it all to be perfectly honest. If we are found guilty and we have made these... the language of the statement is brutal isn't it."

— Rachel (City Fan)
📜 View Full Episode Verbatim Transcript 35,508 characters
You're listening to the Football Daily podcast with Kelly Summers. Two hours ago, the Premier League released the most extraordinary and damning statement in their 34-year history. They said they found Manchester City guilty of all charges against them claiming that the club had nearly a billion pounds worth of investment that they refused to cooperate with the investigations and also accused witnesses of lying. With me this evening are the BBC's Football Issues Correspondent Dale Johnson, Football Finance expert Keira McGuire from the Price of Football Podcast, as well as our Football Correspondent John Murray and, of course, former England goalkeeper Paul Robinson who are out in Prague for us. Gents, there is just so much for us to get through here. Dale, I'll start with you. We already knew from everything we were hearing that Manchester City were guilty, but the level of detail today is nothing short of extraordinary, is it? Yeah, I mean, we were here in Copenhagen for the European Football Club meeting and Feren Sorry, I know it's here and I wasn't really answering questions and I just sort of came as a bit of a bombshell for us here at about six o'clock, certainly in some of the detail that is within not just the Premier League statement, but also the document, the four-page document that's come with it and what we know at the moment, there's more detail to this, of course, if you're getting to. The fact that they've said there was sham contracts about the way that they were able to get agreements and artificially inflate the club revenues and also the fact that they has misstated accounts and concealed the true state of the club's finances starting in 2009-10, but onwards from then, so it covered all nine years where would they would have failed the financial fair play rules if they had not done these fake deals essentially. It's substantially in breach and they've committed multiple breaches of its duties to be cooperative and acting the utmost good faith towards the Premier League and the rest of the member clubs. Karen, we've been waiting to hear from the Premier League what they'd make of it, but what did you feel or think when you heard this statement drop early because the language in it is very, very strong anger even from the Premier League. That's right, you normally expect a statement to have been through the legal team and therefore tends to be somewhat tempered, the fact that there are multiple references to the word sham as soon as you start to read the report, the accusations, which appear to be undertaken that people have lied to the commission and are forced witnesses and then the extent of the money to try to put these figures in context. Manchester City had a £900 million gain, so I looked at the accounts for all of the big six clubs over that nine-year period. They, on average, were generating revenue of £2.9 billion, so Manchester City effectively were getting £1 in three benefits when they were competing with other clubs for recruiting players, paying wages and so on, so the numbers involved are staggering and the fact that it makes representations that the auditors also had been deceived, this is a coordinated and concerted campaign to falsify and fortunately represent the accounts of the club. You've both mentioned there the phrase sham contracts that the statement mentioned. It was actually mentioned eight times in the report. Kieran, can you kind of explain what these sham contracts are? What are the Premier League referring to? Well, what the commission concluded was that Manchester City were signing sponsorship arrangements and it's done this on a season-by-season basis if you go through the 40-page report and effectively for every £1 that was coming from the sponsors around about £8 was actually coming from the club owners and this was being added and what was happening is that Manchester City was pretending it was receiving a lot of money from the sponsors whereas in reality they were only contributing a small element and the reason why that's important is that when you do your your PSR calculations it's based on your match day revenue, your broadcast revenue and your commercial revenue. So overstating by £830 million over the period the commercial income gave Manchester City a huge competitive advantage and meant that it didn't break the rules when it submitted its papers to the authorities. I've had a look through this. This is .72 that you're referring to isn't it? The City user disguised funding scheme to claim that they had 949 million of income through sponsorship. The Premier League say that the actual figure was 190 million. Big difference. Yeah, I mean it's incredible numbers and if you take a look at Manchester City's sponsorship income immediately following the acquisition by a shakeman sort of an Abu Dhabi initially the numbers were quite flat and then as soon as some form of cost control the initial financial fair play rules were announced there was this huge spike in commercial revenue and on the basis of the report those numbers have been falsified to allow City to comply with the with the cost control limits. And Dale the other part of the statement that was so damning I think was where it talks about the club basically not helping the Premier League. The club made concerted efforts to stop and frustrate the Premier League investigation. The club breached duties of cooperation that it owed to the Premier League. They also say that witnesses gave false evidence that is not a good look. It's not no and what you have when you get through is the sanction in here in which will happen well we don't know exactly but they say as soon as possible there's something called mitigating factors which are used to try to reduce the penalty you get and one of the things that clubs always tend to use is having this good cooperation and the fact that there is no mitigation for this whatsoever it's actually going to be an aggravating factor rather than the mitigating factor and any hope that City could have to use something like this to reduce the penalty they will get will not apply in this case. Yeah it's interesting because Kiran they've the City themselves have said they have complied with it they have gone through the process of course they will say that that's that's what they're going to say but but it's obviously very different for the Premier League they don't feel that happened. That's right and again the comments which have come from the the report itself evidence given by a number of important factual witnesses called to give evidence on behalf of the club was false and that certain of those factual witnesses have given evidence at the hearing that they knew to be untrue and so had been dishonest that is as damning as you can get from from a legal report so as they always saying that the clubs attempt to plea mitigation to the next commission which will take place and and that that will sit and it will hear two things first of all what the Premier League considers to be an appropriate punishment and secondly what would Manchester City believe to be an appropriate punishment but if those comments are coming from senior executives at the club and we are still awaiting I think there's something called appendix six which will be published in due course which names all of the witnesses so presumably those witnesses who have lost credibility from from this these comments surely they cannot give any mitigating comments to to the next commission. It's staggering isn't it as well the commission added there are 7,000 pages of transcripts from witness interviews to go through alongside other documents which in total amounted to tens of thousands of pages Dale this probably explains a little bit as to why this one is feels like it really has dragged on. Yeah and the Premier League in the statement did say that they regretted that it had taken as long as it did but it was just the case that there was so much evidence to go through that that it really was the case that they couldn't really avoid it and yeah I mean 7,000 pages I mean at least if Manchester City appeared which you think there will then it will just be a case of going over the evidence that's already available rather than going back to anything and creating any new evidence or bringing anything else to the table. The Premier League statement does say Dale that the City have been guilty of all charges but it seems they did get off one of them wasn't there I think it was all the financial ones that they've been proven guilty of. Yes it's all the financial rules over a nine year period and a majority of charges in relations which are fairly to cooperate so anything seems to do with the what Karen talked about these inflated commercial fees whereby they had a base fee paid by the sponsors and then a top up paid by the owners then they are all being proven. I mentioned the tone as a statement before John Murray I'll bring you in here now so it seems very angry from the Premier League you like myself like all of us will have read a lot of similar statements in the past I'm not sure I can ever remember reading one with as much feeling behind it. No I think it's the it's the detail isn't it the detail of the of the charges as Dale and Kevin have been outlining there I think the detail that's in there the the figure of over nine hundred million pounds obviously jumps off the page but I think particularly as well you mentioned it Kelly the word sham you know I think now that word sham is going to be associated with this case that is going to be come part of the the footballing parlance for years to come we will be referring back to sham in connection with with this case also as well I think what what people will be wanting to hear is what are the punishments going to be what are the sanctions going to be and now we know that that is going to be addressed in a in a separate hearing with the independent commission but there's no date on that so you know that is open ended and and obviously we know that Manchester City have put out a very strong statement haven't they again this afternoon so I think those are the main takes from it yeah Richard Masters statements says the club systematically broke Premier League rules the nearly a decade some of the other words alongside sham dishonest misleading I mean it's not the Premier League are not leaving us in any question as to how they feel about this and as you said there John Man City in contrast saying they very strongly refute it and are it seems like going to appeal and they have until Friday to do that but I guess the question as well Dale is what could City show that they haven't shown already surely by this point with it having gone on as long as it had they'll have laid all their cards on the table or their evidence down well that's just a and Manchester City said that this is they have irrefutable evidence that this is the case well clearly on what we've seen today is refutable because the commission has been very clear that what's being said by Manchester City is not trustworthy our question now of course is where does this punishment go now if we look at the case of Editing from a few years ago they got six points for a 20 million pound overspend and so once the PSR and we get the actual figures for the PSR overspend for each of these nine seasons and that is where anything we get interesting in terms of a number of points that Manchester City could face being deducted based on on that turn not precedent in the early 90s women's tennis was having a moment this is a match that will live in the memory of all of us he had been too dominant suddenly along came Monica Sellers she hit the bar big she hit two hands and just when tennis fans were looking their lips at the prospect of a rivalry that would push the sport to new heights one of the strangest and most shocking sporting crimes brought it to a grinding halt Monica Sellers has been stabbed by a spectator this man stole her story from her sports strangest crimes Tennyson's darkest hour listen on BBC sounds this is the football daily podcast with Kelly summers we've been hearing as well from David Bernstein former man city chairman and the FH chairman and he was very strong when he spoke earlier on five-live drive it is damning beyond belief really they've talked about producing sort of forced documentation and a pattern of behavior over a number of years that is really quite quite unbelievable so I my media thoughts are can the board of directors as president are continue should the people involved be suspended immediately this was a public company or some other authority I think the would be questions of immediately about the whether it was correct my right for the people who would be involved with this to continue at least until there was an appeal or someday and that was the second point is that I'm very concerned the Manchester City Bay always bring the perceived processes to distribute by really fighting the appeal that if one believes what one now hears by the extent of this and what I think they described it as a fusible evidence maybe just a way of extending things and creating further turmoil so yeah very very serious you couldn't you couldn't see something more damning than the the the premier league and after all my city are part of the premier league I think it's so really terrible I wonder that if these accusations you know also would let's let's take it as read for the moment are there subject to subject to appeal whether some of these issues might need to be referred to authorities outside the league that's the only a thought who do you mean by that well I mean by that there is the producing forced documentation and benefiting financially but it's just you know millions of pounds from it is a very serious thing to have done and to be found guilty of by the football authority and by that I mean is this something that goes beyond the ambit of the football authority I don't want to say more than that okay to be clear what I'm what I'm getting at yeah I think we're clear what you're getting at we had a guest just in the last half hour say from his reading of the situation it's a deep seated form of fraud would you get that far I would go that far yes and and if it is then I'm not a lawyer and I'm only just putting this on the table as a thought really but it is something that is so serious that it goes beyond the football authorities they have till Friday to appeal the club do according to the premier league the sanctions will come their way pretty quickly um what do you think the sanctions should be you say the the reputation of the premier league is at stake in so far as how it responds to this what should they do yes I mean I mean I'm I'm asking the premier you've done a outstanding job with this yes it gets where they've got to it's not easy well I only want to say that I think the sanctions cannot just be financial because financial money doesn't be much too uh because of the odors so it's going to be something way beyond that I think if this all this stands up and and appeal fails I think that the brownest city cannot stay at the time of the league David Bernstein with Klemich Donald a little bit earlier on five live drive and I think it's safe to say he feels very strongly about this and he talked about it being beyond football the punishment um he also mentioned whether the current city board could continue in place there's there's going to be a real question about that now Dale isn't there yeah absolutely and you've got to remember there's also the role here of the independent financial regular and while the license is for clubs to come in until next season they're already able to look at the suitability of current directors and that's currently happening with Sheffield United in the way that they've moved their ownership from one club to another and you can imagine that once this is actually finalized the independent financial regulator will want to look at the role of these directors and their integrity and honesty throughout the process and from that they can take a range of action from censoring to trying to remove these directors from the club Paul you've been in football a long time as a player and now on the other side what have you made of all of this I think we all start to understand the severity of it now don't we but what I don't understand is what the Premier League have come out today and how strong that they've actually been and Manchester City have leveled them back with as stronger words as what they've got I mean they're both fighting their corner in extreme ways it looks like they're you know they're they're using the strongest possible words from both of them I've actually got a couple of questions for for Dale and Kiran I mean whoever wants to feel them and we all kind of understand what's going on and we've got the crux of it but how long is this potentially going to go on for and what are the next steps because we're hearing today that Manchester City have had the statement from the Premier League what happens now because we're hearing that Manchester City have already appealed the that the sanctions without knowing what the punishment's going to be so what are the next steps of this process so there are two distinct processes here one is the appeal against the judgement that they are guilty and then once the sanction actually comes there will there will be the ability to appeal against the sanction itself as well so sometimes you get the whole result in one in case it's going in two separate parts so you're in we will imagine judging by what Manchester City have said today that the appeal will going in by Friday and then it's going to be a process whereby that's heard where it's supposed to heard within 12 weeks we don't know if that will be the case in this particular case but then we've got the actual sanction part as well now what the Premier League will be very eager to do is get this completed by the end of the season and within their regulations they have the ability to go faster with these cases so that it doesn't drag out but this is a very strange situation whereby we're expecting such a large penalty that it's a cloud of the rest of the season the might let's just take the match week on Sunday let's say that Manchester City go to Liverpool win that game and it turns out they go six points clear at the top of the Premier League that's pretty much meaningless isn't it because no one really expects that City can realistically if they don't win their appeal still be the top of the Premier League at the end of the season and also something else that's been on my mind there's a lot to talk obviously on social media and people are speculating as to what the punishment could be should be and he's going to be what happens with the Premier League and the AFL because this is a Premier League issue the Premier League are well within their rights to deduct points and ensure that they're relegated from the Premier League in the correct ways they can't just throw them into league two because that then throws the AFL into district surely and it gives them a mess to deal with do they have to have a relationship with the AFL going forward yes we do actually have some presidents for that Paul because in the Leicester City case which took place last year or earlier this year Leicester City were in breach of the Premier League PSR rules the Commission made a recommendation and the Premier League and the AFL now do have a sort of a channel through which they will opt to consider punishments given by each other's board so therefore whilst the AFL does not have to take the recommendation of the Premier League Commission there's nothing to stop it from saying yes we've heard it we've spoken to our members and we think that relegation to league two isn't an appropriate punishment so it did so that they both changed their constitutions to allow this because there were problems a few years ago when the Premier League couldn't apply an AFL punishment so there has to be a conversation between the Premier League and the AFL once the Premier League decided what they want to do they then have to ask the AFL if they will accept them to where the Premier League see fit for them to start their next campaign when and wherever that might be that's correct but certainly in the case of Leicester City and also if you take a look at some of the pronouncements that we've seen in the Premier League website itself in the past few days it said we're getting on really well with the AFL now whether this is you know we're now sort of putting two and two together and getting five but you know is this indication that on these particular issues and there's a separate discussion of course between the Premier League and the AFL about monetary distribution again they seem to be making some progress there it does appear that there's there's much better relations than a few years ago but Kirin you were essentially saying there is a scenario where the AFL could say no we don't agree and I guess Paul's next question will probably be what happens then well under those circumstances if there's if there's a huge points deduction Manchester City would would be relegated and what could happen is that I would imagine that there will be discussions between the two bodies you know people will be pragmatic about this it would be in the AFL's interests you know with Manchester City in the AFL that's going to help them negotiate their next broadcasting deal and Manchester City in League 2 is going to be the biggest show in town in the AFL for three seasons so if you talk to EFL club owners some of them will say well yeah that's going to that's going to impact upon the ability of my club to be promoted from League 2 others say this is our biggest payday of the season bring it on yeah I guess we are getting a bit of ahead of ourselves at this point we we of course are anticipating Manchester City to appeal before them Paul how do you think this will be affecting the players there's a few players preparing for a game who also play for Manchester City yeah well we were in the press room obviously two or three hours before the game talking to all the written journalists and the media and their all their focus is on this story that's just broken I mean there was a huge story around the England game tonight who would play and who wouldn't play but now all of a sudden everyone's focuses switch to this because it is such a damning statement and as a player I played at leads at the time when we went through all the financial trouble and all the the stuff that happened off the field and it's difficult at times as a player but because I think this is so fresh and it's so new today the players probably won't understand you know the severity of the statement and they'll go out and they'll they'll perform to a level and I don't think that this will affect the players because I think going forward they are going to be Manchester City players until they're obviously told otherwise and I think they try and separate off field to one field but I think when it's affecting your everyday life like it did with us at leads with your salary sacrifice etc and it affects your everyday life then it does become an issue but until I think this is resolved I think we'll probably have this conversation when the verdict is announced and the players at Manchester City actually start questioning their future or if they have one well I've been watching Mark Gay and Elliot Anderson in the warm up and you know just doing doing their job doing what they have to do and I think it is as Thomas Tuckle said after the match on Saturday obviously the players will talk about this and the time that they have they'll talk together and they'll talk as club mates as well and I know that Gay and all Riley both made made errors at the weekend and I know that was very much a discussion point but I think probably once you get into the thick of the action then you're very much focusing on what in front of you and also I guess like the lights of Elliot Anderson for example who you're going to watch there tonight John if you've signed for Manchester City recently you know that this has been a kind of cloud hanging over you know that maybe this was a possibility when you were signing yeah and all of the other signings that have been made as well remember it's not too long ago that Erling Harland signed a new long-term contract with Manchester City and you can only assume that they and their people will have asked the questions we need to I was going to say can I throw another one to the guys who ever wants to feel this one what then happens fear in the worst for Manchester City say they get relegated to the to the championship in the best case scenario worst case scenario how does that affect them falling into the EFL's financial situation and their rules or under the EFL rules there is something similar in the championship where you are you're limited to spending 85% of your revenue on the player costs but you also take into account player sales here and I think we have to be practical and pragmatic an awful lot of city squad who have been recruited on very good wages and on very big transfer fees they will not want to be playing in the EFL they want to play in the Champions League they came to Manchester City with that as I think is probably a minimum expectation so there will be an exodus of players and also from a practical point of view Manchester City cannot afford to pay the wages should they be relegated because such a large proportion of the club's revenue comes from a the Premier League TV deal b the EFL TV deal in the Champions League and thirdly commercial partnerships and sponsorship deals which perhaps now will be seen to be overstated and will have to be renegotiated here's one for you what if Manchester City win the Champions League and get in the Champions League next season and are playing in League 2 I think that's going to cause a bit of a fixture congestion given that you're afforded to see games in League 2 but that comes into what we were just saying there before doesn't it in terms of the fact that this whole season now it's just it's just hard to comprehend just what it's going to mean with Manchester City are going to be taking part in Champions League games whereby the general consensus is that the reason why they've got the finances they have today is because they spent nine years inflating their income which got them into the position to be able to have income which is real it was generated over that time to put them in this position and if they haven't done what they did over those nine years then they wouldn't be in this position and this is why you look at clubs like Newcastle and Aston Villa who have been trying to break that glass ceiling for a while but they haven't been able to because they've been playing by the rules whereas Manchester City broke the rules to break that glass ceiling and getting to the new particular friendly club also Paul you mentioned there about the Champions League the Premier League statement actually accuses City of breaching UEFA's spending limits as well as their own so I guess Dale could there be further punishment from UEFA as well to come No this is a strange one actually because the City were actually charged by UEFA five, six years ago something like that and they were actually bound from the Champions League for two years of these fences but Manchester City appealed to the court of arbitration for sport and they effectively won on what was the technicality of the statute of limitations the time had elapsed whereby UEFA were allowed by its own rules to take action against Manchester City so the court of arbitration for sport found in city spheres on that element and the ban was removed so it's actually quite an interesting factor that the UEFA rules are part of this punishment when UEFA can't actually punish it that's that's leading me to hold another multitude of questions let alone having questions Paul Robinson has probably got on that one and Paul's mentioned a few times here in the lead situation and obviously he saw that one closer at hand are these two comparable at all no I think the position that they had at least was that the club gambled on the future of the United in terms of regular occurrences in the Champions League and when they failed to do that it meant that the loss of revenue really hit the club because it had sold some of its future money elsewhere so it simply had a financial crisis what we're talking about in Manchester City is in respect of these sham contracts and I've googled the word sham which has come up with spurious fake falls fraud hoax not genuine meant to deceive or trick would lead to united didn't true that I think from our point of view though from a players point of view I think if the worst does happen to Manchester City and they do fall through the leagues or go to the championship from a players point of view it's the fire sale that ensues that it's looking around the dressing room wondering actually who's going to be sat next to you the next day I'm wondering how many players they're going to actually be able to keep on and if they are wanting to bring money in what type of player is going to leave and what that's going to do to the squad it really does create a level of unrest inside the dressing room once you know the assets in the dressing room have to leave I think as well it's where it's just mentioning here that not just city players leaving there's all the potential as part of the punishment that there would be a transfer in bargo if the transfer in bargo that puts limitations on the club being able to replace players who may leave and that puts a longer term punishment in terms of how they can return to the top level again I was going to say as well Paul picking up on your point there I can completely understand what it must feel like well I can't I've never been in the dressing room but I understand that it must cause uncertainty but I'm wondering from the tone of city statement it's going to be a bit of a siege mentality Paul could you just it feels a bit more like that do you know what I mean between now and the end of this case the manager can use this as a catalyst as a as a voice in the dressing room he can can create what you said like a siege mentality and us against the rest of the world because everywhere that Manchester City go now the crowds everyone's going to be reminding of them everyone's going to be against Manchester City and burrowing them laughing at them when they turn up and and they will create a togetherness a siege mentality and I wouldn't back against Manchester City going on a really strong run using this as fuel for the fire if you like until we get to the end of this whenever that may be this might be right towards the end of the season the manager can turn around and go right we're going to master many points as we can if this is the worst case scenario we're going to have to make the Premier League docker's a hundred points at the end of the season to make sure we're relegated and that's that's something really strong in a dressing room and until the end of this I don't we're obviously jumping ahead of ourselves presuming predicting but actually until this is resolved this could be a really strong thing inside that dressing room that's going to be an extraordinary day at Anfield isn't there a week on Sunday when it is Liverpool against Manchester City I'm not sure I'm not sure what to expect when I go there Kelly is that one going to be live on five live joys it is yeah don't want to miss that one but the world in his wife will be there for that one I'll be tuning in that special let's bring in a Manchester City fan then and see if she's feeling the siege mentality or if perhaps she's just feeling a bit deflated maybe a bit let down by her club this evening so City fan Rachel Hurts and thank you so much for speaking to us this evening just try and take me inside your mind when you read that Premier League statement earlier yeah I'm still taking it in to be honest yeah nice day at work today and then the phone started blowing up and thinking oh good what's this now yeah it's like the seven stages of grief I guess it's sort of the shock and denial and then I know Paul's just referred to the siege mentality I'm still clinging I'm probably clutching it straws a little bit here the club seem like they're still going to come out fighting and if that's what they're doing then you have to still believe in your club Caldune and the board have always been been very bullish in the moment they're Rachel there's something that doesn't stack up to me I think we've all been blindsided by it as fans because the level of spending both on and off the pitch over last few years has made me maybe naively believe that we were going to be found innocent of all charges so I appreciate that the club can't say too much because the legal process is still ongoing they say they they have this irrefutable evidence that will clear them but I'm a little bit confused by that statement because I think well surely at some point it might have been nice to present that during the hearing and call me old fashioned but I thought that's when you presented evidence so so yeah I'm a little bit confused by it all to be perfectly honest if we are found guilty and we have made these these you know the language of the the statement is brutal isn't it and it's it's really quite harsh listening to you know seeing words like sham contracts and witnesses I got basically accused of witnesses of lying under oath so I'm disappointed that that that the Premier League is using that language but they obviously feel that that's the level of deceit that is here so again I'm trying to be remain quite level headed in all the hysteria but it's difficult because it's becoming very clear what the ramifications are and already you know I'm hearing stories about fans in their city shirts walking through the centre of town and being spat on and being called cheats across the road and all this it's just you know it's already it feels like regardless of what any kind of appeal outcome might bring it feels like we've already been tarnished with this cheating brush now so yeah it's it's never boring to point so yeah I'll tell you that more on it Rachel thank you so much well thank you very much to my guest Adele to Kieran to John and to Paul I'm Steve Bracknell assistant manager of Sunday League Power Houses the Royal Orchestra and I'm back in changing room a Royal Oak for a new season of Games Gone the podcast that takes you back to the grassroots of the game we me colleague Paul Samson and Bob the book and this season we're aiming for promotion to division D of the Sheffield Sunday Imperial League Games Gone the Steve Bracknell podcast listen on BBC Sounds