Post-Pep Power Shift: Inside Man City's Transition & Arsenal's Emerging Dynasty

This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Influences and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? Find out by searching for more than a school wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Get more with BBC Podcasts wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire and Your Dead To Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon Music subscription. The company of our panel, welcome Dwight Gail from a Crystal Palace in Newcastle United, strike a Hawaii pal. I'm good to have you with us this evening, all so alongside us at the former House City Boss Phil Brown. Good evening, how are you? Well, good to see you, Brownie and Cousin Clinton. Clinton Morrison makes his return to Friday night. How are you, pal? Good summer. Yeah, very good summer. Yeah, you ready to go again? Stronger opinions. Always strong opinions, you know me. I'll be like that. Always like that. I'll always be like, don't worry anyway. We've got to enjoy it. I'm here with Brownie and Dwight, so it should be a good show, so I'm looking forward to it. It's not about me and you, mate. It's about everyone. Absolutely, it's a family affair, isn't it? Let's talk Manchester City, Pep Guardiola, of course, stepping down at the end of last season. Enzo Maresca, as expected, is the new man in the dugout. Put yourself in Enzo Maresca's shoes. How will he be feeling over the next week, Phil? Is it a monument to act? He has to follow, yeah? I think it's enormous. It's absolutely enormous. The best part about Enzo is that he knows him very well. He knows Pep Guardiola, work with him, he knows his styles, etc, etc. Does he start copying Pep Guardiola because of the success that he had at Man City? All of them things will be going through everybody's mind, but it's a real dilemma at the moment. How do you behave? How do you act? Because your arsenals in this world are now, by definition, having won the title, they are now stronger, they're spending more in the, they've got more, more of a say so in the transfer market. And the look to me is a real powerhouse arsenal at this moment in time, without a ball being kicked. Will that be changed in a charity shield event? I don't think so. I think people's opinion of Manchester City is going to be really skeptical over the first sort of 10, 12 games. And who knows where it's going to go with Man City? I'm not sure. Certainly with a club that's just down the road, Manchester United, who look like they've got their act together. There's a lot of pressure on Manchester City, a lot of pressure on Maraisco and a lot of pressure just to win a few games to get the crowd on his side before he even gets talking about titles, etc, etc. Dwight fundamentally though, he's been picked for a reason. It's going to be partly football star, but because they believe the city board who are pretty shrewd when it comes down to it, that he is the best man to follow on from Pep Guardiola's era of success. Yeah, I think that would definitely have been in their decision. I think obviously him being there and being at the club and working under Pep before is going to be something that they wanted to bring into the dressing room. He obviously worked with some of the boys before, but I think it's going to be a real big test to try and bring the big characters back in. They've obviously lost a few players. A very important one is obviously stones. Rodry could go at the moment and I think there are really big characters in the dressing room and I think that's going to be one of the big things that comes into the transfer window going forward. So if he can bring some big characters into the dressing room, I think that will help them. I also think that obviously the play in style is just vital and I was just going to compare it to the Liverpool situation. Obviously when club left and slot came in, he obviously continued for a year in a similar stance and they obviously had success with it. And I think he'll look at that and try to do the same. Obviously when he started to bring in some new characters and try to change a bit in the dressing room and on the pitch and style of play, I think it started to change a little bit that they probably had a lot of beliefs and confidence in. So I think first and foremost with a similar style, I think that gives him the best opportunity. Phil, when he goes into that job, how much of a Brian Kloff can he do? When I say Brian Kloff, just to put it into context, of course, Brian Kloff got into Leeds United after Dom Rivi lasting 44 days, wanting to banish the ghosts of Dom Rivi. He's apparently gone and had a conversation with Pep Guardiola and talked about the squad and Zemar Eska. He is what I call a adopt, a disciple of Pep, as there are so many of them across football right now. How much of an influence does he take from Pep? And how much is it a case of, well, I'm a man. I'm going to do things my way. Well, he can't banish the ghosts of Pep because it's so fresh in everybody's mind, you know, it's just the last season. You know, he's a disabled of Pep Guardiola. Let's put it that way in and he's going to emulate it to a certain extent that style of football because Mancini brought him in for that reason. So I don't think it's a kind of Brian Kloff trying to demolish what Dom Rivi did at Leeds United by any stretch of the imagination. But he's gone in and he's losing a change in room of character. And I'm talking about if he loses Rodrian, if Rodrian goes for 60, 70 million, for a 34, 35 year old, you've got to take that kind of money. But it's what's left behind. He hasn't got the characters of John Stones. He hasn't got the characters of a Rodrian that can get a hold of a change. Still 30. I know, but they lost Bernardis Silver as well, which is going to be a massive character as well. Absolutely. There's quite a stronghold of good characters in that change room that have all vacated the premises on the back of Pep Guardiola, even. I think it's a massive challenge. It really is. Come on, Clint Morrison, first touch of the season. Let's have it. No, I agree with everyone. This situation. No, I totally agree. Here's a massive challenge. Enzo Moresco has done a good job at Chelsea. And he has got a different style of play. But here's Pep kind of groomed him if you know what I mean. He was like, he's understudied. And he went obviously to Chelsea. He's done a good job there. I thought they played a attractive football, but I agree with what Browne and Gailie say. If they lose Roger, they're in big trouble. Listen, I still think Arsenal are the favourites regardless if Roger stays or not. But I think Roger is at the peak. He's the best midfielder in the world for me. In that position at this moment in time, he's the best. I think he saw. Clint Locke, go ahead mate. Go ahead, go ahead. I'm saying not to stoke the fires, though. I'm just saying down the road, Manchester United, is doing a great job. And the manager is going to be there. He's stepping the ship. He's finished the season like a house on fire. The decent in the transfer market. For me, they'll look favourites for finishing ahead of Man City. Yeah, really? I know what he's saying. If Man United can get another midfielder and a left-back which I think Michael Carrick wants, I still think, me personally, I can understand what Browne's saying, but I still think Man City, if they keep Roger, will probably finish ahead of Man United at the moment. Clint, city paid, city paid the fee for Elliot Anderson, which Manchester United won't willing to do. Yeah, because there's a lot of money. It's £170. But Phil's talking about, you're not potentially finishing above them. That's not just on one player, though, aren't you? That's not just on the decision of one player. But if Rod removes, it's just a big void that they're going to leave in that change room. Does my holder bring in? What if they've got some friends that can hand us? But it's got nothing to do with figures. This is quality of play. This is a guy that dominated the Premier League single handedly for the last three or four seasons, and the World Cup. It's a massive, massive loss to a Man City change room, that for me. Let's talk more about this city midfield. Chelsea's deadline for clubs to bid £120 million for NSFN has passed, and they're now expect for NSFN to stay at the club this season. Elliot Anderson is through the door, though, at the Etihad. Enzo Moresco has been speaking about Anderson, replacing Bernardo Silva, and City's trend of senior players leaving the football club. It's a big challenge, first of all, because Bernardo, you know, show how good it is on the ball of the ball in these years. But again, Elliot arrived. We are completely sure that Elliot is going to play Joe for this club in the next one, two, three, four, five years, no doubt about that. They are different players. They are different players. But we're going to try to use Elliot in the best way for him and for the team. You know, with Bernardo, John, Ake already, we see what's happened with some more players. But there is a change in this moment, and in the moment that the window transfer is closed, we need to be good enough to find as soon as possible solution for the players, for the team. But again, we are in a moment where players that they were here for many years, probably they already left, probably they can leave. And that means that there is a change. And we're going to try to do our best. And I'm a risker, the Manchester City boss there. Dwight, you know, Elliot, Anthony, you were in the Newcastle squad with him. I mean, tell us about him as a teenager at Newcastle, and maybe him sort of developing and playing more of a deeper role. Yeah, obviously it was someone that that came into our squad at 18, a young boy, but obviously had the attributes that he had today. Someone that was so strong and powerful when he ended up being probably one of the best trainers in the team. I felt like he got a bit frustrated. The fact he didn't perhaps get the game time at that situation. And sometimes you almost have to go away to get a bit of credit. I always say to the young boys, sometimes with the transition it can be very difficult, because you almost feel like you should be playing. But you obviously went on loan to Bristol, Rovers, and then unbelievable with them getting promotion to then coming back and having a bit of that credit to play and get a lot more game time. But then obviously, again, with what I mentioned before, sometimes you've got players that are more established and more value to the club a bit. So I felt like you almost had to take that next step and sort of leave the club to where he goes to not in the forest and he was unbelievable. So I know the character that he is, he's someone that's so so fiery in tackles and he wants the ball for himself. Like he'll win it back for the team. And he's a fantastic character to add to that dressing room. He has big obviously confidence and beliefs that he will go win stuff. And he obviously showed that we're England in the World Cup. So do I, you know, when you're building a sort of a side in the change room and sometimes you stumble upon the right kind of character that comes in the change room and enhances that change room without even kicking a ball? I think that trying to replace Rodri with a player and you just say the words 130, 140, million word, you know, a lot of people are saying what we spend that money on. You know, have we spent that money on talent? Have we spent, it's the bigger person. It's the bigger character that I'm talking about to replace Rodri. Is this the character that we're talking about? Yeah, he's definitely got the character in the dressing room to add to that. I feel like obviously he's becoming more and more mature. It's something that he's starting to lead by example and he definitely had that role at Nottingham Forest. The fact that they've spent that much money is going to be on him to start demanding more respect and paving the way for the city boys as well. The fact that they've had the change in manager is going to allow that even more, I think. So hopefully he continues with his development and starts becoming, like you say, that big character in the dressing room. It's a good point, actually, Aaron. You know, the fact that the manager's brought them in. You know, that's the main part. If he's his man, he can step up to the plate a little bit earlier. Do you know what I mean by that? As the manager brought them in, Clinton, or is this a transfer committee decision? If you'll be able to answer that better than me, I don't know how a man's city do their business there, but it looks like it could, it might be the club signing, but whatever it is, he's a top player. And Elliott Anderson has been fantastic. Over the last couple of years, his development in his football, now regular for England, and I thought he was good at the World Cup. He gets on the board, he wants to make things happen. He's not Bernardo Silva, because they're different kinds of players. Bernardo Silva's got the experience, so I wouldn't compare him to, like, Bernardo Silva. It's difficult. And you know what? People talk about the money. He doesn't set the price tag. That's just what happened in the market with a young English player. Look at Morgan Rogers, the amount of money he's going for. And then we're talking about Enzo Fernandez going for 120 million. If man's city won't want him. I think Elliott Anderson will be a really, really good sign. And you know what? He deserves that move. He deserves that. He's been excellent outstanding. Newcastle never wanted to sell him. They had to sell him for financial reasons. He went to Nottingham Forest, and he just dominated it. And I think you'll be a really good sign in for Man City. Are they on the hump for a partner next to him, though? Because Tijani Rindas looks like he's going to be heading away. As you're trying to sell Rodgerie already. Stop selling Rodgerie. No, I'm not, I'm not. He's still in the building. Wait, we love that discussion. When he's not in the building. But the problem they've got is obviously he's got a year left on his deal. Clinton. No, I know we left on his deal. And City don't want to be letting anyone go for free, especially someone who's kind of at the peak of their powers of 30 years of age. If City have got the money that they're supposed to have, they would, in my opinion, they would never let Rodgerie go. He's just finished the World Cup. Does he want to stay? He's won the World Cup for Spain. I don't think he won. I think that he hit the pill of going back to Spain for one or the big two. I think is too big of a pull. I think, and I think that's what's in his mind. He could spend till he's 40, though. I think he's already lost loan of that one. Because he's made for that to go. I know, but I'm not sure on what team he loves, but I do think he probably feels that he's won everything he can at Man City. He's won the World Cup. He's won the Belendor. He's won the Euros. And I think he wants to leave a mark on going to live in Spain and play for one of the big teams over there. I think he'd love to, if it's Barcelona, take them to win another Champions League there. In a career as you were, though, Dwayne. Is it a pop at the new manager coming in? Because, you know, ultimately don't, don't get me wrong. Listen, Clinton. I'm not saying directly. I've just seen him directly. No, I understand. I understand what you're saying, though. You're more like saying peps. God, I'm gone. It's gone. Yeah, yeah. I understand what you're saying. And as Dwayne says, and you make a good point, he's thinking, I've learned so much under Pep Guardiola. And Dwayne is right. He's won everything there is to win. Now he goes to Barcelona. The style of football suits him. He'll be big out of days, be a legend out in Spain. Anyway, winning the World Cup. I think it could happen. And obviously, we've been hearing about bids that they've made a 55 million bid for him already. If Aaron, you're telling me he's got a year left, they'll definitely, it will happen. And I know Man City fans won't want to hear it. But they're not, they're not silly. The people who run Manchester City. I mean, you, yeah, they're not silly. Let's just say that they always are able to recover remarkable sums for, for their players. And I don't think Roger is going to, going to be leaving on a free transfer. Who knows? Who knows? I doubt it, though, because, you know, they've brought in fees for a Canji Ake, the James Trafford fees. Absolutely huge is this summer. And Tijani Rinders will go for a, a large amount of money as well. Do they need another midfielder, though, on top of Elliot Anderson? Because obviously, the Senzo Fernandez story has, has, has popped up over the past couple of weeks. Chelsea then set a deadline, which I'm, I won't be surprised if other clubs do that now. Set a deadline of, we want X, YZ, YX, YZ, pay it or, you know, you're not getting your man. 120 million pounds was the fee set by Chelsea. By five o'clock today, or if someone offers more than that on September 1st, it would be interesting, wouldn't it? The midfielder player that probably is in the background is the England left back, if you like, because he can play midfielder, can't he? He doesn't, he doesn't mind going into that position. And Man City have honed his skills in that position. Then he's been playing left back, then he's been playing center back. I don't, I think they've already made a replacement in there. In terms of technical side of the game. Who's the player left back? He's, he's talking, I think he's talking about, he's talking about, who's the player? But no, you know, you're talking about Rally, so what, eight Nuri goes left back? You're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, they, they, they, they, they did pay big money for that, you know, but Rally was so good on the peps cause, like, double figures last season, but it's a good shout feel because that is his position. And when you see them play there many a time, so they might have a gem there. I can, you know, where he was and though, they talk about end of the game. He worked, yeah, he worked with my rescuer. And obviously, you've lost Bernardo Silva, but he got to still think they've got the likes of folding, they've got Cherokee, they got some manual, they got doofy, you forget Aaron. Look, all these names are really enough. Dave's and then they still got the main man up front. Number nine, Holland is going to be the top goalscorer again. So you can never sleep on Man City. That's for sure. I mean, in terms of, of city and building that Maraska side, having watched him that less than watched him at Chelsea as well, this is going to be quite similar to, to, to Pepo, who'd you expect the, the key players to be in his starting 11 on Sunday tonight? Like Clinton said, to be fair, you've got someone like Harlan, who's going to cause. Have it in any defense and he's going to score a lot of goals throughout the season. You know that Cherokee obviously finished the season really well and he would have been a bit frustrated at his World Cup. And I think he'll be ready almost getting looking to, to make an impact at the start of the season. So I think those two, your, your big names straight away. And like I say, I still think there's a lot of room for transfers. I think there's a, I think the reason that a lot of people were trying to make deadlines at the moment, I feel because a lot of numbers that are probably getting chucked out are getting really higher because of the situation of Morgan Rodgers and Elliot Anderson. I think people are all likely going to be stamping higher prices on people. And I think that's going to just slow things down. I think it will go towards the end of the transfer window before we see a lot more movement. We've got two weeks to go. I think it'll be late to go on this. I think Gays is going to be a big player for him next year. Centra half for me, you know, he looked like he was growing stature towards the end of the season, and then the season then comes in his England. You know, all of these things are building in his career. I think it'll be a massive season for him next year. Where does that leadership group then sort of like emerge in the Manchester City squad? Ruben Deas is the club captain. He's 29 years old. Mark Gay, of course, as shown, he's, he's got that sort of, you know, those capabilities, especially when he was at Crystal Palace. Mateo, Kovacic is a as a senior member of that squad, but where do you build that group now? That sort of like that group of, you know, sort of left-tenant, if effectively Clinton, who are going to are going to be able to be trusted by the boss to drive messages forward and to really push this team? Well, it feels right about Mark Gay. Mark Gay could even be the captain. I don't know if he will because his talk of maybe Ruben Deas, and he said he didn't want to might not give it to Highland, but they've got a lot of experienced players in their leaderships. They keep Rodgers. There's a leadership. You've got Deas. You've got Mark Gay. There's a lot of big characters there. Even Harlem can be in the leadership group. And he's still at an age, but he's the talisman. He's the main man. So they've got a lot of experience in there. And even someone like Phil Folden, he's won everything. And he's still young. And then he didn't have the best of seasons. Phil Folden. And he'll be devastated. He didn't go to the World Cup. So this season, when we're mentioning players and standout players, I think he has to come into the equation as because I think he's got a point to prove Phil Folden. And we know he's an exceptional talent. Man City still have a lot of good players. And I don't think they're finishing the market. And as the White said, it will go right down to the White. They'll probably sign a few players late. And they might lose Rodgery. But I still think they'll be competitive and they've got a lot of top players. You are still now with the list of players. I've just mentioned he'd love to be going in there and managing their players. He's actually mentioned Donna Ruma. You're talking about big, big players, you know? Listen, when you go into a change room like that, you know what it's like, Clinton, you know, you've got to go in there as a manager and you've got to make a mark. And how you make a mark is either style of football or style of management, whichever the case may be. But I've always said for it, for the control of the change room as a manager, a strong manager, you've got to be able to control the big boys. And you've got to identify the big boys. And the more you have, the stronger that change in, the stronger that bond with the managers. You know, the management group is now left and the new ones come in. That's for me. It's a real telltale sign. And I think it's a big game for them this weekend. I really do. You know, if they can put a mark down early on in the season against an Arsenal team, early on being a charity shield, it doesn't matter, it's not just a preseason friendly. This is a big game. This is a statement of intent, I think, from one city. And maybe even a Rodry, you know, maybe a statement of intent to showcase right armoured city at the start of the season, and I'm staying. That may be a big weekend for them. How do we get that swaggy fill phone back? I use that word swaggy very loosely. I know there are many better other words. Clinton, I'll come to you in a moment or so, but first up, how does he re-light as far? I feel that the managers just got put his arm around him really. I think it's really important, like you say, the first few games. He needs to get his confidence, but we obviously know how good of a player is some of his technical abilities off the charts, and no one can get close to him with it. So I think it's really important that you build a player like that with as much confidence as you can, given the game time he needs, and try to work the game around him sometimes, because we saw two or three years ago, a player of the year, how good he could be, and we saw someone that we thought was going to be the best player in England for the next four or five years. So we need to sort of see that player again, and I think confidence is the first and foremost and that comes from the manager. Clinton, Morrison, Steve Bruce must have many an armoured hand shoulder. Yeah, but I don't know if the way it's like me, but he probably is not, but center four is the field would tell you where to belongs. We all need the arms around us. He can feel forward and probably does, and he's a top player, unbelievable player, but as you say, when you have a season like obviously that he had last season, and you can't suffer love on confidence. It doesn't mean because you're a top player, you can't dip out of form, because it happens to the very best, but he will just rediscover his form for sure, because he's a top player. But I think if Mariska goes in there and says, you're my main man, and feel forward and feels like he's going to be playing weekend, he gets confidence, but if you come in for one game, come out from three or four games, your confidence is low. But he's going to have to, he's going to be challenging Cherokee, and we know the ability Cherokee could go, because he wants to play in the number ten, and so does feel folded. But when you're at a club like Man City, you're going to have competition for places. But the way it's right, if he can rediscover that form where he got player this season, he'll be a regular. I like feel folding, I think he's a top player. What's that saying about not letting the truth get in the way of a good story? Well, I'm Carl Prince, and I'm in the way. Online, I catch out some of the biggest names in football, holding their tooltails to account. But now, the tables have turned. Can I spot the truth in the lies? As those same guys who I try to catch, try and catch me out? Grow the tapes. I'm Carl Prince, light detector. On the 4-Hoo Daily Podcast, listen on BBC Sound. Influences and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? Find out by searching for more than a school, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Get more with BBC Podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire, and Your Dead To Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts, Add Free, with an Amazon Music subscription. We're out, so you're telling us pre-show. You grew up there. That was your club when it really came through. Was it a YTS? No, I wasn't there at your YTS. It was just from 8-12, just to account of me. 8-12? Yeah, then. You're still there. In terms of the football club, and what that means, that football club, you're a londar, you tell us, what's it been like? Yeah, it's like for the whole fanbase, obviously, my son sports them, my brother sports them, my dad sports them. So there's a lot of happy people in my household at the moment. So it just, obviously, something that they almost didn't think was possible because they got so close to it for so long, and even when it was that close, they almost doubted it, thinking it was inevitable that Man City would come back into it and take it. So it was a massive relief for them, and I think that this transfer window was all about sort of just getting some new players in to help them kick on and hopefully be in a stronger enough position to do it again next season. I think with Bruno, it's definitely someone that's added to the quality in the dressing room, and I'm sure they'll be in the market for something else as well. But I think they're in a strong position, and they definitely look like one of the favourites going into it. Clinton, we see the Premier League, it sort of flows in waves, like with eras. And we've seen this Manchester era, a Manchester City era, it comes to a close with Pep Guardiola leaving, and we don't know what comes next. Are we very much into the Arsenal era now? Is this going to be a period of dominance for Mika Latetta side? Yeah, I think they will. I think they can do it. Listen, I think the likes of the Man City's Liverpool's Chelsea's, they'll all want to say, even Man United, they'll all want to say in it, but I did think of Arsenal go over the line, because that's the way it said, there were times where you're thinking, Man City, they don't do it now Arsenal. I don't think they'll do it for a very long time, but they managed to do it. It's a credit to them. And I think they've just evolved, and they're just going to keep getting better and better. And the signings, they've made so far this season have been really good. The thing I worry about with Arsenal is the Celeba one. I know they link to Gerald Kwanzer at the moment, which I think would be a really good signing, but Celeba being injured with the partnership with Gabrielle, and the preseason results, haven't gone according to plan, but feeling the way it would tell you, it's not about preseason. It's about first game of the season, and obviously this weekend playing in the charity shield, is a big game for all of these new players, and the England players are coming back now, so I think they'll have a really good season, but Bruno Gimmerrache, really good signing. And you know what I've heard as well, and they'll talk about it today. They'll link to Ossumman as well, so if they can get Victor Ossumman as well, then they are going to be frightening. I know he's similar to Victor Yorke Ossumman, and how they want his Julian Alvarez, and that might not happen, but if they get another world class striker, I think they've got a great chance of dominating for many years. Just on what they've done so far this summer, Phil. Sir Alex Ferguson always said, you know, you need to have your call, and then top up what three, four players here, Max, you can't be going and making wholesale changes. Mick LR Tetis brought in Bruno Gimmerrache. We know what he's all about. Crystal Zollis has been fantastic in Belgium. Didn't have the most incredible spell at Norwich City, but they're doing just that. It's about fine-tuning and working out what the issues were last season. What do you think the issues were with Arsenal last year? Oh, good question. I didn't know you were going to go that way to tell you the truth. I was looking at Declan Rice and the amount of games he plays, and you know, I can question this one. You know, when you're that good, you're that strong in the changing room. You've got that good relationship with a manager. It's almost like you never want to miss a minute. You're like a Lionel Messi. You never want to miss a minute, and you cut your cloth accordingly as a player. So, you know, you don't have to train during the week, but you're playing it the weekend. And Declan Rice became that player where Arsenal was concerned. He never wanted to miss a minute. And he looked at you have that relationship with a manager. I think the manager's brought a midfield in now that can give Declan Rice some breathing space, because he's come up from the World Cup. He's probably, there's no doubt about it. There would have been fatigue involved there, but he won't have had the preseason that everybody else has had. In fact, the preseason would have been all over the place with regards to individuals, but at the end of the day, you just come into the party at the right time. You know, now's the start of the season. On Sunday in the charity shield, is Declan Rice going to be playing that? Probably not. I wouldn't have thought. I think he's going to showcase the new players. But there's also a problem it's sent to back. And he's talking about top-end center halves bringing them in. You know, Kwanza, you know, there's Kwanza from Villa. He's talking about taking teams. He's talking about taking players from teams that are going to be challenging for the title next year. And he's actually saying Arsenal are big enough now to take them players off you, because everybody wants to play forward. I think it's Arsenal's year and now. It really is. I'm not saying because of Man City management movement, not because of Manchester United or any of the others, and the problems that they've all got. I just think Arsenal in a very, very good place. And I think the managers as well. And now they've got them over the lane last year. I think it's time again. How does Michel Arteta not just maintain, well, build and maintain this dynasty in the Premier League, but take the club to the top table of European football and be challenging for European cups? Well, this is why he's signing players like Bruno Gimmaraj, and obviously he wants to strengthen in that center forward area as well. And as we said, he's interested in Kwanza, I think Kwanza, as we Kwanza, he's a really good defender at Arsenal Villa. That's probably his number one target. But yeah, this is what they, and that's why they made a statement. And I didn't think he was ever going to happen when they went to go and get Vinicius Jr. That's the market Arsenal want to show up now, as they want to take over. And as I say, they're here for it. And they were really closing the Champions League last season, but obviously eventually lost the PSG or a fantastic team. But they want to kick on and they want to keep strengthening. And everyone says, how do you manage these screeper players and keep everyone happy? Well, you're an Arsenal football club now. You know, one of the biggest clubs there is around that in the moment. So you've got to manage these players and stuff like that. And Phil made a really good point when he said about Declan Rice. I think he played so much football come the end of the season. He did look knackered, but he still managed to deliver and go again at the World Cup. I think when you bring in someone like Bruno Gimerage, you can sometimes you can give Declan Rice a rest because you've got Merino. You've got loads of even Lewis Kelly went in there, Zubimendi, other midfielders that can go in there. Older guard, Isaiah, that player in the 10. They're starting that department. So yeah, I think Arsenal are ready to dominate. I think Declan Rice will understand that as well. And that's the main part. You can see good players coming to change room. When you're sitting there and you go, wow, there's another one. There's another one. So you sometimes think yourself, well, hold on a second. I don't have to play 38 games now. I don't have to play in every cup final. I can take a breather in some games. And that's for me is good management. Now the fact that they've got it over the line. They've won a Premier League. I think they've creating something that City had where City was able to make these signings of having two good players in each position and being able to accept it sometimes. And knowing that my chance tonight might not be now. But I know that it's going to be for the team. And I'll be in it in a few weeks. And I know what's required of me. I also think that what we mentioned earlier about Man City looking for big characters, signings and who's going to look to take over the dressing room. I think what our tetas done with Bruno Gamarash is brought someone into the club. And with the cons of situation is someone that is a big character in Estambilla. It's a big character in Newcastle. Both big characters that are basically captains. And I think if you bring stuff like that into the dressing room, you will only add to it. And it will bring along the boys to be successful. I think. Let's talk Sunderland Bournemouth and Manchester United. Of course, several clubs in Europe for the first time. We're back in European competition after a season or two. Why all three? Though I've had quieter summers in terms of incoming transfers than some may have predicted fill. Let's begin with your beloved Sunderland playing in Europe for the first time in 53 years. What takeaways will Regis Lebris take into this campaign? It's going to be difficult. We know what European football brings in terms of stretching squads. And their squad was stretched when they lost players to the Afcon last time out. I was, I've got to say, at the start of last season, I came on this year and I was jolkingly see, you know, that we're going to finish in the top three. We're going to win the title and all that kind of stuff as a Sunderland supporter. And it was just Blasey Rubish. But then I was more than impressed with the way the team played. I thought the team performed in some of the games absolutely heroically. And Regis Lebris just got a grip of a group of players in a way that he can only be described as almost Pepp Lake. You know, he had a style of football and this is the way we're going to play. And everybody seemed to be enjoying playing that way. Then he's saying the Granite Shaka lad. Now, when he's saying Granite Shaka, I'm a manager with a bit of experience and I'm thinking myself, if I bring a player and that's 34, 35-year-old who's got the experience of being at Arsenal, he's been in Europe, etc, etc, he could actually take over the changing room in a bad way. Having said that, I was fascinated the way he was managing him. He let him get on with it. He let him manage the players on the field of playing. Consequently, I think that was the main reason why Sundan had such a great season. This year, I've got me doubts. And I've only got me doubts for a couple of reasons. Everybody talks about second season syndrome. They've survived on the sort of the phenomenon that you get promoted from the championship. You go into the Premier League and you've got this, you know, the extra inches and you go quick, a yard quicker and this, that new thing, everything about you is on the sharp end. I think they've just slumped into a sort of a preseason that I'm not quite sure about how they out, what the outcome is going to be like. They've got a hell of a start to the season and they've got Europe. Have they got a big enough squad? Have they done enough in the transfer market? I'm skeptical at the moment. I've got to see it. I mean, players have left the club. A lot of players have left the club. Roussin Mayenda is the biggest name. Lear Hielder, the defender, Antony Padsson, the goalkeeper is gone to Rexham. And they've only brought in Thomas Munier, the Belgian fallback. 34 years over a ride back. We know what he's been brought in for for that European experience, Clinton. But fundamentally, they need more if they're to avoid doing what Ipswich did all those years ago. Finish six and then get relegated the next season. Yeah, you do worry for Sunderland, but I still think they did good, very good business and they've still got, I feel alluded to you saw Chelsea were knocking on the door for Granite Jacques. I still think when you've got that man in the building, he's a top player and he'll lead it. And they've got lots of good players in. I told you he was excellent for that. He's a hell of a striker's probably. He really impressed me. I think he's strong. He's a man mountain defenders can't handle him. But they're in Europe. So it's going to be difficult. And I know what it's like being, when I've watched a lot of Palace, when you're playing on a Thursday and then you're playing on a Sunday and you need a big enough squad and they've only brought in Thomas Munier. They've lost players. The dinghy is, I think, gone to Monaco as well. So they've lost a lot of players. But I don't, I think Sunderland will still do business. But I can understand what Phil's saying the second season. You do start worrying, but I still think Sunderland have enough to be competitive this season. I'm really impressed of them. That first season, getting into Europe, that's a massive bonus. Don't get me wrong. Definitely. If we had just missed out on Europe, how do I mean, how do I mean, I'm not more happier? Happier, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a strange one, isn't it? Yeah, I know. I completely, I complete the Spurs fans, they're saying, oh, you know, we're in Europe and this and that's what, that's the reason why we finished 17th. And the Premier League, I'm like, hold on a second. The amount of money that you can spend compared to Sunderland. You're in a different market to us. You should never be complaining about being in Europe. Manchester United back in Europe and the Champions League after a year away and only 40 games played last season, they're low since World War II. I mean, that's likely to go up by about 20 this time round. They've made some shrewd signings going to Morrison. Yuri Telemon, who's got himself in, in a bit of trouble this week with Ashton Villafan's and Andre Santos brought in from, from fellow Premier League clubs. Is it going to be enough for them to sustain 38 games in the league, cops and the Champions League? No, they need more. And Michael Carrick's come out and said they need more. They've got good attacking players as well. They did good business last season, but he wants a bit more. I think the job he done last season, go it in there. And it was, it's not easy, because Manchester was not easy. And Phil will tell you that, especially going to a club like Manu Knight that had been struggling. But what Carrick did, he played players in the right position, played Kobe Manu, who Rubin Ammer and didn't fancy, played Bruno in his best position in the number 10, and he ended up being the best 10 in the Premier League and got player of the year. He was outstanding, but then you need to add to it. And what it was, they're in Champions League now as, they only concentrated on the league last season, but it's a different, it's a different kind of official now when you get into that. And you need to add to the squad, and you need a bigger squad. They've got, I said last season, they had probably a good 14. And yeah, they have strengthen there, and they've got a lot of good youngsters, but as the season goes on, you do need to strengthen. And I hope they do, back Michael Carrick, because I think the job he done last season was fantastic. When you hear about them on the hump for a left backfield, you sit there, I think, about time, because Luke Shaw has had so many injuries over the years. And look, brought in in 2014, it was a long, long time ago, that year I've done the Louis Van Hal for a big price tag. And they've hung on and hung on, waiting for him to come back, and he's never come back as he, not in the form that he was in when he, when the first brought him to the football club. He changed shape, everything about him, you know what I was, was something you were suffering for him, because he was never 100% fit since them early days. And they had a good left back, don't get me wrong. I think it was a damn good left back. But with truth being known, they should have been replacing him, what, two or three years, maybe even more ago. What else do they need, film? Another midfielder? They need good numbers. And we've talked about Arsenal. You know, Arsenal are bringing in good numbers now. It's not just players to enhance the squad, it's players that can win the title, and win it again and again and again. So they're setting, they're setting a standard of a football club. Manchester United have always had a standard. They're going to track any player. You know what United have always been. Now they're in Europe again. They're going to track the right kind of player. And consequently, I think they've got a great shout. I'm not saying that Michael Carrots came out and categorically stated, we can win the league. But he has to believe that. He has to start believing that. If he comes out and says it, it puts a little bit too much pressure on the players. But I think he's got a group of players that can handle that. Can I ask Phil Wendow? Right, so let me answer this the way you go first. What do you think with Marcus Rashford? Would you keep him out of the football club? Because it's like having a new signing, is it? And I think you'd be good under Michael Carrot. What do you think? I think definitely. I obviously know that Carrot, someone that probably worked with him before at some point, probably would have had his ear when he was perhaps not playing and wanted to get into the team. And Carrot, I'm sure, would have given him the right advice at that point. And I think they'll have that relationship already. I think you know what Rashford can bring to the table when he's on fire. I do think this season's all about stabilising. I think it's going to be difficult for me and I had to kick on and be tight all contenders because I don't think- How'd you stabilise in the Champions League? It's, I think they've got a good season in the Champions League but then to back it up with finishing the top four again. It is Rashford Lucky, though, Phil. But it is Michael Carrot because if you've got a manager who's not linked with Manchester United who doesn't have that connection with Marcus Rashford, does it go a different way for him? This throws all my management experience in a disarray to a certain extent because I know what the both of the guys are saying. I think Rashford's priceless. One thing he's got, blister in place, blister in place, international player. You name it, you're not attracting the top clubs because you're a bad player. You're attracting the top clubs because you've been brought up the right way. You know how to play the game. But he knows how to play the game on and off the field. He knows he's worth in his value and that's as big as he can get. And they've got to play in the ranks that the manager can manage. They've obviously got a relationship that is pro Manchester United. I think it's a no brain of that. He stays at the Football Club now whereas a year ago, I would have said get rid. Yeah, I definitely think someone like that, you know it costs a lot of money to bring someone that you know is going to add value. So if that's someone that's going to add numbers straight away, I think this is a no brainer. And like I said, they just need to do some shrewd business because we know what the numbers are at the moment and how much it's going to cost. And for the United, it's about creating two good players in each position, which I probably think it's going to be a bit of a push season because of the value of the players. But they need to get a good 17, 18 to really have a good season, I think. Just touching on that. I have seen Bournemouth. We have thoroughly enjoyed watching Anthony Eurela's Bournemouth over the past three years. Marco Rosas has come in. Now this is someone who's had success in Austria with Red Bull Saltsburg winning the title. He's had success in Leipzig as well, winning trophies. How hard is it though? Going to be just coming into that Bournemouth environment. Where Anthony Eurela has created this brotherhood, this team and sort of just coming in and trying to do your own thing? Yeah, I think it would be difficult for Bournemouth. Eurela is the top manager. That's why he's got the Liverpool job. I think the way Bournemouth play when they're in possession and out of possession, their work rate is fantastic. But it's a difficult one because you look at Scott and will he leave? Obviously, you see Bournemouth have offered him a new deal and I'm not sure if he wants to sign it. There was talk to him going Chelsea. They got Rayan, who I like, the Brazilian international. But you know who they've lost as he's injured. He's creepy. Creepy is injured and he's going to be a big blow for them because I think he's an exceptional talent and a lot of clubs are watching it. And also, it's difficult because they're big shoes with, listen, I'm not comparing it, but it's like, we just said Pepscon, Maraska Rasta coming, they're big shoes. The job Eurela done for Bournemouth even to get into Europe. Where Bournemouth usually need to other end of the table, it's fantastic. So listen, one thing with Bournemouth, they always recruit well when they lost the menu, they're bringing players and they recruit well. I still think they'll be all right this season, but I don't think they'll have the season like they had last season under Eurela. Clinton, just looking at the Premier League this shows, who's going to be your ones to watch? Oh, wow, that's a difficult one. You know what, my ones to watch, you know what, my ones to watch, you're not going to laugh because they spent loads of money, but they've always been finishing in the bottom, at the near the bottom, so I'm going to go top numbers on my ones to watch as... One word answer from you, Dwight? Oh, it seems like I'm just copying it in my mouth. I've got an origin now, I've got an top number as well. I like it, I like it. So sorry, King, that's the joy. It's good, it's good, it's good. I'll pay that bill, you can hold on and give me your answer because you join me on 606, myself and Phil Brown, our live commentary offering on Sunday, comes from the Prince of Palatine Stadium Cardiff as the Champions Arsenal take on Manchester City. This goes beyond what the KGB did back in the days. Cospiracy theories and the football World Cup is there ever one without the other? Well, I've been digging into one of the very best back in 1994. Yeah, from Iraq, it's a red code for a dubious tackle. I'm James Montague, and from BBC Five Live, this is Sport Strange's Crimes Presents Shadows on the Pitch. Listen on BBC Sounds. Influencers and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? Find out by searching for more on the school wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Get more with BBC Podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire, and Your Dead To Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts, Add Free, with an Amazon Music subscription.