Joe Devine on Tifo Football Podcast: "The gunners could fire off the biggest deal of the whole summer if they manage ...

Hello and welcome back to the TFO Football podcast. I'm Joe Devine and I'm refreshed from a summer of refreshing drinks and rest. Yeah, that's what it is. Anyway, I'm delighted to be joined by He's back from across the pond. It's the American baby boy. Hey, a robot panda. Howdy, buddy. How are you doing? You're okay. I'm great. Thank you. Yeah. Bomba. You've read Big Bomba. You've rejoined us from Big Bomba America. How was it over there? Very American, very hot. Yeah. Really enjoyable. Yeah. Had a great time. Thank you. Best bit. Watching Portugal get knocked out in Dallas. Pretty funny. We're now though. We did a cry. Yes, absolutely. Well, welcome back. Anyway, we've also, we're joined by one of the data boys. It's Tom. How also back from America, I should say, but to less acclaim because we didn't feel your absence in the same way. It's Tom Harris. Thanks for that. We're a rude start in the show. We're a kick about in New York as we did. Did you? Yeah, we did. What you kicked each other? Yeah, we just yeah, kickboxed. Is there somewhat a play for all in New York City? Along the, there's a riverside park, really loads of astroturf pitches. Oh, that's nice. Who won? Well, Ruben, we played crossbar challenge and Ruben kind of ruined it for us because you got three in a row to start with, right? And we just thought like, okay, how about that? I watched a social video yesterday of Johnny Wilkinson just throwing a rugby ball behind him and hitting the, the bar of the, of the rugby panel post. I don't know what you called it. I saw that when I reminded me of the David Beckham one hitting a bin on a beach and I was like, is this just, is this doctored? Is this real? It seemed real to me, you know, how about that? It's right. Anyway, speaking of seeming real to me, he wasn't here before. He is here now. It's John McKenzie. There you, and you're holding a book, John. Yeah, I thought you'd say something. No, you said anything. Would you like to see, hold up the front cover of that book? Yeah. It's here. Yeah, there it is. It's the spectre of Pat, the, the how Guadilla haunts modern football tactic. This is John's book. We've been talking about it for a long time. We've got a hard copy of it. And would you hold it up one more time? I showed this to a friend of mine who met you once. And he said, oh, I don't remember him looking like that. And I said, that's Pat Guadilla. But two bald men, you would be forgiven. Not a lot of football. Forget a few friends. No, no, he wasn't. When does it come out, John, very soon? Yeah, August the 20th. August the 20th. Wow, that's very soon, isn't it? Do you want to read? I want to read. I can say, I've read it. Would you like to hear my review of it? Yeah, please. I thought it was absolutely fine. No, it's very, very, very good. It's excellent. And one thing I want to emphasize over and over again is that it's not just about Pat Guadilla. I know that seems like a simple thing to say because it looks somewhat like it's going to be a sort of tactical biography of Pat Guadilla. It's about all modern football. In fact, one of my favorite bits was about Jürgen Klopp. There's a lovely bit about deserving in it as well. It is essential reading, as Jamie Carringer says. And Karl Anker was just about to say two people have used the word essential. I think it's essential. I mean, you know, if you're a certain type of person. So my dad is ill-inbred at the moment, which is the only condition that would force him, I think, to read my book. Right. So he's read the intro. He's read the intro. And he said, he messaged me just as we were recording. What did he say? Hey, John, just read the intro. Right. You're a great writer. Oh, I understood it. It drew me in and I look forward to the rest. Oh, there you go. This is a man. This is a man who doesn't care at all about Pat Guadilla. And he's interested. Well, I do know my wife read it alongside me as well. And she had to say, she doesn't know anything about football or care about it. And she said she enjoyed it. There you go. There you go. But I just to be clear, I wouldn't suggest reading it if you don't like it. I actually wouldn't suggest quite about football, isn't it? No, no acknowledgement section in which yeah, there is. Is there? Yeah, I couldn't find it. Yeah, it's in there. It's sort of, anyway, you can read it later. Read it in your own time. But seriously, you should pre-order this or order it when it comes out or just, you know, get the audiobook, which is voiced by someone very, very cool with a great voice. Bomba. Bomba. Stephen Fry. No, it's me. Now there we go. Anyway, welcome back. Thank you. Right. What are we talking about? Oh, also Steve Hanky's here. Bomba. There he is. A bomba. Steve Hanky return. We didn't have him for the World Cup, of course. Now, for new people listening, there's a bit in the podcast today where I introduce Steve Hanky because maybe you joined us during the World Cup. You might not know how annoying this man is. You'll soon know. Now, what did we talk about on today? Show, well, we start with a huge story. It's a very long show, we should say, because we've been off for a couple of weeks and there were many things to talk about. So maybe it could be a record length. We talk about, oh, it's, it's disappeared. You deleted it. We say it was annoying. It's a photo might as well, actually. Yeah, yeah. You were acting out under annoying character. I like that. Now, what do we do? We started with FIFA and a week that Johnny and Fantino probably wishes that he could start all over again. What a hilarious scandal that is, then we play a rondo, a simple rondo, but with critical. Bomber. Bomber. After the rondo, we talk about transfers. We start with Anisius Jr. to Arsenal as a maybe and John's inherent snobbishness towards the service industry becomes a parent right? Steve. Now, that's right, isn't it? Because the word hierarchy was mentioned and I just want to say it wasn't me. It was John McKenzie. Famous author John McKenzie hates the poor. Now, what else? We move on to a side who's spent a lot more than Arsenal so far. That's Spurs, of course. Will they sign a fully stuffed pastry or a hand grenade? We discuss and say the word bomber a lot. We say it a lot. Bomber. Bomber. Then we talk about old people transfers as clubs start treating transfers like fine-wise old people transfers is very funny to me. Newcastle have a new manager, but how? Right, Steve. Yes, but what about how? We talk about what happened there. Oh, incidentally, Seb's here as well. He joined, he's here at the beginning to help us talk about FIFA and then he comes back at the end again to help us talk about Matthias Jaisler. I've got had to say his name. Jaisler. Matthias Jaisler, who's the German coach, who's now taking over Jaisler. I'm pretty sure that you threw the course of the podcast, your pronunciation of him shifts wildly. It's just one of those names. It's going to take me a few weeks. German names are really fun to say Germanly. Yeah, yeah. Bastienschfangstein, that's just a great name. I'm really looking forward to hearing the many different versions of that that we get. He's got a really deep, really deep voice as well. Whenever you think it's like surprisingly deep. You also look a little bit, he's got a little bit of the rubens about him. His hair. Yeah, like I scrolled through, I was scrolling through Twitter and he saw him and I was like, oh, that's, he had like the black roll top and I was like, oh, that's a little bit of the rubens. Yeah, a little bit of rubens. I wear my roll neck and my trench coat and get a clipboard and go his hand. That's a really deep voice. Well, there we go. I think that's it. That was the show that I missed anything. Nine. Nine, nine indeed. Well, there we go. In which case, I shall say nothing else. Well, where else to begin, of course, then, with the future of everyone's favorite president? It's Gianni and Fantino, the FIFA president. He's certainly my favorite president. Now, this week saw the potential beginning of his end. That'll be funny, wouldn't it? Reading now from Adam Krafton and Dan Sheldon's news story published, did you know a lot happened in the last couple of weeks, Ruben? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm reading from this news story. Adam Krafton, Dan Sheldon, this was published on Saturday, the 1st of August. Important to say, I feel like because I'm worried that after 45 minutes, this podcast will be out of date. Maybe more things may have happened. But here we go. FIFA and Gianni and Fantino have performed a dramatic U-turn. I love when a U-turn is dramatic. On his plot, to sell a stake in commercial and event operations after widespread condemnation. That's a hard word to read, isn't it? Condemnation of his plans. In a statement, late on Friday night, the under fire, FIFA president said, now this is one of the greatest quotes of all time. I have to say it's a fantastic word. Having listened carefully to all the views, it's become clear that the project has created divisions of a nature that, regardless of the level of support, are no longer in the interest of the objective set out in the first place. Now, you tell me, is that not the best way to win an argument with your spouse? That is such a fantastic. It doesn't matter what happened. It's clear that based on your response to what happened, it's now no longer possible. Even though I'm very, very, very right, probably best we don't do it. Exactly because your reaction to how right I am is very, very wrong. Now, the plan, of course, because if people have taken a holiday like me, they might not know. The plan was to create a new subsidiary called FIFA Forward Enterprise, very exciting name. Under which commercial operations and events like the World Cup would be consolidated, and then sell a 21% stake of that subsidiary to a venture capital firm called Thrive. Get this? That was owned by Joshua Kushner. Yes, the brother of Donald Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and of course, nothing unusual about that in the slightest. The plan needed majority support from football federation, but UEFA and then Commodore came out against the plan. UEFA even threatened to boycott the next World Cup. I don't think Commodore has. Oh, not Commodore. It's Conca Calf. Conca Calf. Crucial difference. How would it have been embarrassing with understanding on either? Conca Calf. That's what that's like central and central and also America. Which one's Commodore? That's South America. South America. Anyway, the Conca Calf, anyway, if it came out against that, UEFA even threatened to boycott the next World Cup. This all happened, of course, before that dramatic you turn. And then I think that the final thing to say before we get Sabza take on this, is that the next FIFA leadership election is in March 2027, which is very, very close. And there are now, of course, some serious doubts about infantilness, possibility of continuing as president. That's the kind of story that I could evolve over the coming days. Can I just add on the potential boycott of the next World Cup? I think what they actually said was UEFA competitions. So not only is that the next men's World Cup, that's the next women's World Cup, which is next year. And the club World Cup. Presumably, yeah. And presumably the playoffs for the women's World Cup said a Romanian qualifying games, Roach would be this autumn. Yeah. So it's way more immediate. Loads of sounds. Plus like, you know, FIFA's autumn barbecue, they wouldn't go to that. And FIFA's 50th birthday party, folk landing on boycotting that as well. Very, very sure. Which have Justin Bieber performing. Now, Sab, I guess, now, Steve, get ready, because you're going to have to bleep this question. But Seb, the main question I think it here is, has Johnny and Fantino completely f**ked it? It would seem he is close to having completely f**ked it. It's worth saying that there are little pockets of support. So whilst a lot of the football associations around the world who've backed, for instance, UEFA statement, calling for boycott, whales, the Welsh FA have retracted their previous support for Infantino, their intent to vote from the next leadership election. I believe at the time recording the English FA have done the same or about to do the same. Oh, well, I mean, to be adjusted, depending on what happens. And that's because everyone said before they were like, yeah, we'll vote for you when it comes, when the time comes. And now they're all saying, actually, maybe we won't. Is that what you mean, right? Yeah, they're all kind of falling in line with UEFA statements. But there is still a little bit of support. So the football association of Qatar, has expressed, I would say, support, but also, it's always kind of least expected there. Yeah, yeah, Morocco have done the same. And obviously Morocco are going to be one of the hosts for the next World Cup. So that's relevance. But I think the general thing, right, is that it's not necessarily, from whatever it is, not necessarily the plan that's been the problem for a lot of these football associations and a lot of these kind of individual power brokers with the egos. It's that they weren't told anything about it. So one of the interesting things is, obviously, I'm over here in Germany, so kind of listening to the German FA's response to it. And Bernandoff, who's the president of the DFB, which is the German FA, he's also a member of the FIFA council, which is the rebranded. People remember the executive committee, right? The executive committee under under bladder, which was which was so notorious. Nindalf is on there and he said, I never heard of this. I learned about this through the media. That is mad. That's what it looks like. It's the president of a major football association who sits on the premier executive body in FIFA has never heard of it. And then also, when you start to hear people saying, I mean, Infantino's senior advisor has resigned. A senior FIFA executive said he basically said the senior advisor was Lamore. I can't remember his first name, right? But I think his surname was Lamore. No, so that's not the senior advisor. Kevin Lamore is a thank you Joe. Tell me Kevin Lamore. Kevin Lamore is a chief operating officer at FIFA, and he described this as quote, one person's project was this said, not only should this project not continue, but the time has come for football's political decision makers to ask the right questions and make the right decisions. This is a statement that he wrote. There's utterly damning. Because he clearly doesn't want to be able to perform at the autumn barbecue. He did not like it. No, he was not a fan of that Madonna slash Ronaldinho slash Ronaldo performance. More because Beaver's performance really changed the mood. If he'd come out and played baby and sorry, then right. One of his big hits. Yeah. Yeah, I really felt my morale sag during that segment. But it's very, very difficult. Also, so much of the criticism, Joe, is personal, and it's about the nature of doing business rather than plan itself. So if there was a problem with the plan, you could feasibly, it's unrealistic, but for the sake of argument, you could say, right, this wasn't a hit. Let's take it back to committee stage. But the problem here is there hasn't been a committee stage. There hasn't been a proper consultation. People, even though as we've reported, this has been under production for at least a year. I can't remember who to attribute it to, which is terrible. I know. But I remember reading somewhere, somebody saying, it's clear based on the report that I've now seen that people have been talking about this. This has been a serious work for a year, 18 months. So the notion that we haven't seen it to this stage makes it clear that it was deliberately opposite. Exactly that. I mean, I, and also listen, if you go back to Johnny Pantino's beginnings as FIFA president, he was really elected on a mandate of transparency and being the sort of the antidote to what came before, being the kind of the anti-set platform. And clearly, and I think UEFA said this in their own statement, clearly that hasn't happened. This is not transparency. This is, as you say, obfuscation. These processes are hugely opaque. It's very, very difficult to imagine how he comes back from this. But then you have to remember, and there is a caveat here, in Pantino, still has a lot of support, for instance, in Africa. There's a lot of support among African nations and still to hear kind of from everyone involved in this process. And it's not unanimous yet, because there is this situation right where he has made the game more lucrative. He has turned on the money taps for a lot of countries. And so there is this question of, right, would you put first the integrity of the presidency or your own benefit from who the president is at the moment? That's always going to be attention when it comes to international football. And it will remain. So I don't, by the time we finish recording this podcast, the situation might have been changed entirely, because it's shifted about four times. Yeah. Is it not fair to say, though, that what you're talking about with the money there is kind of the mechanism by which this system, let's call it, stays afloat, because one of the elements that we haven't touched on with the plan for FIFA, FIFA's forward enterprise, it's a very, it's such a, it's just reminds me of a bit in the office where it's like, that sounds like management speaker. I know you hate that. It sounds like something out of an Ubisoft game, doesn't it? You know, one of the mechanisms here was that the countries that, or the federation sorry that voted in favor of the plan, we're going to get $40 million, and the countries that didn't, we're going to get way less money, right? So, you know, I think just, it's, these, these scandals, I think we can call them, are always interesting because they illuminate the process or the democratic process by which FIFA actually operates as a federation. And when you start to talk about which federation are opposed to something and which are for it and what the various different agendas are involved, it feels like a system which is very open to manipulation. These are the mechanisms of control, right? And they've always been that way. And it's why Infantina has been successful and it's why there has been a tolerance of his particular style of presidency. And so now what you're asking countries to do is to look away from self-interest potentially. And in a lot of cases, these are countries that have not always been treated fairly internationally. And so that's part of the discussion, of course it is. But then you have a betterment of the process argument there as well. So it's really difficult to know what happens next. What I say, and I've written this already for the athletic is I think it's time to look at the office of the presidency and how we actually run FIFA because to put so much power in the hands of one person feels like a mistake because if you speak to people who dealt with young Johnny Infantino, they would know a change in the last 10 years in the person. They would say that you know having so much power and authority and being adjacent to so many very powerful people is going to change somebody. And I think that's probably true for just about anybody. And so that there is no, but if you if you were to put anyone in that role, is it for the betterment of the game? I don't think so. I think that has to be a change. I think I could do it. One other thing I think we should mention here as it relates to this story, my favorite part is that the various critics of the plan obviously was suggesting theories as to why this might be the case. Now I'm reading from from an article published on the athletic this was the inside story of the whole week Adam Kraft and other contributors as well. Here's a paragraph it says, UEFA has accused him him being Johnny Infantino of quote using our sport to enrich themselves and their friends. Several sources said that he wanted to create a commission a style role for the new vehicle. That's FIFA forward enterprise. An idea that FIFA denied and that he's been inspired by Trump's ability to network and make money. Several of those who have worked with him describe Infantino as being obsessed with the salaries earned by US sports league commissioners who earned tens of millions of dollars per year while he earns only around six million dollars per year. Which was the other thing that I think turned people off about well, one of many things that turned people off about this plan was that it did seem kind of sort of transparently selfish in it's in terms of its desires. It reminded me Ruben of I don't know if you have ever seen Lord of the Rings but do you remember the characters of Sarah Man and Sauron? I do remember those characters. You remember those characters? Well Sarah, Sarah Man, of course, being the white wizard. He was he's supposed to be a good guy. I don't know if you've seen it. You know, it's vaguely okay. Well, he's supposed to be a good guy. Yeah. Well, the thing is he's not a good guy because at the beginning he says, listen, there's no we can't we can't fight Sauron. We might as well join Sauron. And you know what Gandalf says? He says there's only one Lord of power. Yeah, I get confused between those characters. Right. And he doesn't share power. Now the reason I who reminds me of that is because it does feel a lot, you know, in this paragraph here it says people say he's been inspired by Trump's abilities and network and make money. It does feel as though Gianni Infantino has joined a long old list of people who thought that they could extract something or used Donald Trump for their own purposes and have been completely eaten alive by the chaos that has ensued. Watching Donald Trump just brush this aside and a recent press conference saying we never talked about it and then move on. It almost made me feel sorry for him. Yeah, it's I'm really look yeah, I was going to say I'm looking forward to him kind of discarding Infantino just like I never liked him, you know, it's because Infantino's genuinely seems to believe that they're like really close pals all of a sudden. He's an oily guy. He's a bald guy. Yeah. Yeah. You can trust a man with no hair. But it seems like you can trust men with no hair. We trust where they were loyal. Like John and I, you know, like we can't trust a man who wears a wig, that's definitely true. But I was going to say like Infantino's as Seb wrote in his excellent column about this being his Icarus moment. His arrogance of keeping this so secretive and thinking that it would just pass seems to have been a blessing in disguise for us and the world of football, because that's what's tripped it up, not the absurd unfair nature of the plan. It's how it was delivered like he really said, which kind of reminds me of like how the super league was just like sprung on everybody. And that's why it got protested into all the clubs folding. It's really important to add the context here because this is just the latest in a succession of moments of unilateral moments from Johnny and Infantino. So some are not serious, some are very serious. If you look back at the World Cup, so decisions have ever breaks in the middle of each half, that is an Infantino idea that he's just done. And it was not something that was kind of done by committee. There's no evidence that Fief Pro, the players union, have denied being consulted about that. Then there was a halftime show. Can't be, you know, halftime break in the middle of a game is 15 minutes, FIFA said, well, it's not going to be any longer than I think 22 minutes ends up being close to half an hour. We'll do it because Johnny and Infantino wants to do it, right? Take a price. Take a price is Balagan Ronaldo before the World Cup, right? It's just I think this is a good idea, therefore it is a good idea and we're going to do it, rather than kind of you can criticize a lot of FIFA's decisions in the past, but it was more FIFA acting as a group of people that made wrong decisions, quote unquote, than it is just someone that are thinking, right, well, I'm going to make all these decisions outside of committee, which is problematic and then, of course, this is the most serious. And I think it's also, if you think back to UEFA President Alexander Sefferen's response to Infantino being late for that FIFA Congress last year when he was, I think, three hours late because he was doing something with Trump or whatever in the Middle East and he turned up for our slate and UEFA just laughed, accusing him of chasing private political interests at the cost of their own schedule. And so it feels as if people have been almost been waiting for this moment with Infantino to kind of make the point about that unilateral behavior. And clearly he's given them this and included in our reporting, I think it was in the article written by Adam Croft in James Hongcastle and Megan Faringa. This seems to have come out because Infantino couldn't help but sort of talk about it with very, very rich people at the World Cup. We go, it's difficult to have a lot of sympathy, right? Interesting to find out where the line is. Sure, they're for fairytale having, to know, isn't after everything that kind of the World Cup has let's like, it's this. Sometimes I tried at home, you know, with my wife where I'll say one or two things, I think, oh, she hasn't no response there. And then say something really has the line. There's the line. Good to know where the line is. I'll go back the other side of the line. We'll know what I will cross there. Not for at least a week or so. Anyway, there's the secret there, of course, is that once you cross line, you never really go back. You've always got to push that. It's sort of like the first World War, you know, it's trench warfare. Anyway, we probably shouldn't go deeper into this, although she'll never listen. Hey, thanks, Tim. Now, let's have a quick break and then we'll play a rondo. Okay, welcome back from the break. Now it's time to do El Rondo. Very exciting. Tom, how should you remember what the rondo is? I'll explain it to you anyway. I'll use you so I can explain it to the audience. Yeah. Welcome to the rondo. Now the rondo is a game where I give these chaps a question that has multiple correct answers. We go round in a circle. We give correct answers. If we give incorrect answers, we are rejected from the rondo. If we give an answer that somebody else has already given active listening, we are rejected from the rondo. The final person standing is named rondo del Rey. And I know that that's wrong. Okay. Now today's category, it's a nice, simple, easy one to get started again with the new season. Okay. What I'm looking for are team names, names of teams that will play in the 2026-27 Serie A league season. Now, of course, there are 20 of these teams. And I expect that we'll do quite well, but will we forget one or two of them? Well, let's find out John McKenzie. I will start with you. Furentina. Furentina, correct, John. Okay, Tom. Internationale. Inter, you can have Ruben. AC Milano. AC Milano. Yeah, Milano, you can have. Como. Como. Yeah, I like that one, Tom. Juventus. Juventus, of course. Roma. Yeah. I just thought you'd like to interact with me. I might be able to convince you that Roma were eliminated or relegated last season. They weren't, of course, Roma are there. John back to you. Napoli. Napoli, of course, you can have Tom Torino. Yes, Torino there. Lazio. Lazio. Yeah. You did them all in my best home castle voice. I thought you were doing a Sean Connolly. Lazio. Lazio. Genoa. Genoa. I do. She's there. Hey, that's awful. Tom. Pizza. Pizza. I think they were promoted. Really? They were not. Well, I mean, I went early on that one. Let me just double check. You just lent the wrong way. He's back. No, unless they've got a different name, that is embarrassing. No, they are not there. Let me just, I'll just completely confirm that. They're interpisa last season when we went to Fuhrantina. Pisa were in Cerebi, unfortunately. I thought I'd get a niche one out of the way and then they got it wrong. Sorry about that, Tom. Right, you're out of the rondo. Go for the obvious ones first. Yeah. Ruben. Bologna. Bologna. In fact, it's a good, yeah, they're in there. It's good strategy because also you want to get rid of the obvious ones because the other people know them. If you think Pisa's good, save it in your pocket and lose later. John, we haven't said you've enters yet. I'll say you've enters. We have said you've enters. Yes. Active listening. Very poor on your little behalf. Tom said it. Now, okay, well, now, I thought we'd get further than naming just 11 of them. I mean, I can name it. If you want to keep going, I can name more. Really? Well, because you're wrong. The problem is you're probably supposed to name them without making a mistake. That's the issue. I'm going to come back to you. If we ever give Tom a debut Tom's grace, because that might be the other one before, but that might have come in after the debut. No, no. You only get a debut Tom's grace if it's your first rondo. We know Tom well. Okay, we shouldn't patronize Tom with a second debut Tom's grace. That would be embarrassing for Tom Harris. He wouldn't want that. Okay, Ruben, if you can get this answer correct, you will be named Rondo Del Rey. So I want to do a fun one. Right, but I'm not sure. I think they might play the game like a winner. Can I please have Udinese? You can. Yes. You can have it. And they say, well, down to Ruben Pender. All right, John, if you can name the rest of the A, the rest of the remaining A, you just said you could name them all. If it were, I said I could give you more name. No, no, no, give me the final A without any mistakes. Here we go. Hell us for owner. No, you're out of it already. You're immediately out of it. Now, here's the names that you could have had. Tom, do you want to go with this? Let's say let's say yes. Should have said them early. I should have said them earlier. Oh, I have never one. It's gone already. The seven more seven more. Would you like a clue? I was going to know all of the teams. I was going to because I wanted to do Vardy's team, but I thought they might have gone down. I'm an ace. I'm an ace. I'm an ace. I'm an ace. We're relegated. Yeah, because Vardy was there. I don't think it was because of that. It was just a, yeah, Caliore. Yeah, Caliore, you could have a swallow. A swallow, of course, you could have had to Serbia's homeland. Badama, then Ezia, who were promoted. Yeah, Monser. Yeah, also. Great banking card. Great banking card. For us in on there. And of course, Atalanta. We all forgot about Atalanta. There we go. Well, anyway, well done, Ruben. Thanks, mate. It's your first now. Could I ask Steve, would you be able to make a note of this for this season? I'd like to get down how many rondo's are one? Because I feel like Kair and Ruben are very competitive. We probably don't need to write down John and JJ's. I really enjoyed watching your World Cup shows. Well, because Kair won the rondo every episode. No, I just, I just loved like in a completely different time zone, what's happening? The podcast group saying pathetic rondo once again, when somebody thinks the Danny Carver House in Spain was 2010 World Cup. Oh, there were some bad ones, but you should try it. We weren't doing it. Yeah, we were doing it like two, I am. There we go. Okay, well, there we go. That was the fun rondo. Thanks to all participants. Congratulations to Ruben. What do we move on to? Well, now, very exciting news that will never happen. Odysseus Jr. Well, there's been so much transfer talk. We're going to do a few transfers now. The first one we're going to talk about is a potential transfer, which to me just feels like a transfer that could just never actually happen. Although I am excited about the possibility. Nicholas Gaitan's Manchester United. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Now Arsenal, the champions of England write Steve, has been relatively quiet in the transfer market compared to some of their Premier League rivals so far this summer. Is that true? Is that true? I don't think so. They're relatively John. They signed Quantum of Solace. Yeah. And it's just a cool 40-mail there. Nothing much. Relatively. Do you know what? Relatively. They haven't spent as much as they signed Melier. Oh, Chelsea. Oh, Melier. Yeah. The embarrassment of Riches there. Now, but the signing of a few Brazilian, Brazilians would change all of that dramatically right, Steve, as we record rumors about that Newcastle United captain Bruno Kimitayev, she's about to sign for them. I don't know. I haven't actually read any of those rumors in the last couple of days. Are they still active? The Bruno G ones. There's a lot of talk. There's a lot of talk. That's it. Are there any? What's the latest, have we been relatively quiet in the last couple of days? We have been talking about Vinicius Jr and Bruno Kimitayev. I don't know how strongly we should go on that. I should say he wants to leave, right? He said he wants to leave. And Arsenal makes ends. Right. Okay. No, that's fair enough. One thing we should say because we picked up a few new listeners during the World Cup who weren't of that Steve before. Steve is our normal, as our usual season producer. He's also a massive Arsenal fan and he's hugely biased. So it was very important to check his Arsenal-related copy whenever he writes any of that. He's a massive Arsenal fan until it's more convenient to be an Everton fan. Of course. That's very true as well. So it could be some wish, wishful thinking here that Bruno Kimitayev is about to sign for Arsenal. We don't know. But the gunners could fire off the biggest deal of the whole summer if they manager, right, Steve, to learn vision issues. No, you can't change it now. I've already read it. If they manage it alone, Vinicius Jr. away from Real Madrid. Now, of course, this is the big story, Ruben, Vinicius Jr. who will, if he doesn't leave, will be managed next season by Marineo, a manager that had some very understandable disagreements with last season. Real Madrid also in the market for Yandia Manday, who plays in the same position, essentially, that Vinicius Jr. does. So in some senses, it does make a lot of sense that Vinicius Jr. might leave, although to all reports, as it stands, it certainly is far from clear, isn't it? Yeah. It still seems like interest rather than proper negotiations or anything. We can say we can confirm very active interest on Arsenal's part. Yeah, but it's the other side. As David Ornstein said, from top to bottom of the club, they're all on board, and it would be great. To bottom. To bottom. To the T-Lady. He's saying the T-Lady would be the bottom of the club. 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