Anatomy of an Identity Crisis: Inside Manchester United's Craven Cottage Meltdown

This is the Sky Sports Premier League podcast, thanks for joining us. The last Premier League game before the international break came from Craven Cottage, where full-on-play Manchester United on Super Sunday. This is how we saw things at full time. And after the win, which particularly for Michael Carrick and Manchester United carried some pretty weighty jeopardy, but as it turns out, it is an inconclusive day at the Cottage and outcome that leaves everyone grasping for more, full-on-play had to leave through an own goal from LeSandro Martinez soon after the hour. Just before the 19th, Mateusz Kunya via a very kind deflection of Affin Rubar grabbed a point for Manchester United. Yeah, it was a game that was a real struggle for ball teams, ball teams, tentative lacking in confidence, lacking in belief, the challenges coming into this game for Abaloa and Carrick. They do need the international break, they need that three weeks to reset, to regroup. To rebuild and start the seasons again, look back at this game, it was poor in stages, there was lack of quality, but the defensive work for ball teams was awful enough to say, lacking in effort at times. What was probably about right in the end that would be a really Michael Carrick goes back to Manchester, haven't got that goal late on. And so full-on-still winlis in the Premier League, United, floating rather in No Man's land, a draw that leaves them both drifting into the international break. It finishes here, Dave Fullham won, Manchester United won. Yeah, a little puff of the cheeks from Manchester United fans watching on whom. Well, they might well have stolen a victory in those closing moments, but Ashley Young, how important could that equalising goal prove to be for Manchester United and for Michael Carrick as well? I think that's massive, we talked before, the game that coming into the international break, how long it's going to be. You know, this result was going to be really important. I think that goal was the, you're getting a draw at Fullham, you're going to have to look at it as a good point. But they were too slow, they were walking, they were jogging, you know, there was not enough urgency going on in the game, you know, they were lucky. I don't know, maybe it's a bit of belief, maybe the players out of season started thinking too much and overthinking, like 7 second half, I wanted to see more passes being risked in the final third. It just looked like it was too slow, there was players that were walking and I'm sure we'll see the stats after the game that, you know, Fullham run much more, Fullham looked like they wanted to go on and win the game, you know, you're seeing the centre-offs, Kelvin Bassie, with the goal, he just eases, can you out the way, you know, he just gets on the front foot and he looks like he wants to take the game to Manchester United and, you know, it's disappointing to see and I think Michael Carrick will be looking after the game and saying, you know, we've got to do a lot more. It's a moment as well in the Fullham ranks and they're just walking around the field now, Lou, saying their thanks to the, to the Fullham fans. Did we see from them as well a little bit of lack of belief when they were trying to protect that lead? It's, I think, in a normal position when you lead, you have a shaky start in some way, you remember that those young players sometimes, it's a natural approach, but I think they don't enough in some way where we see Bassie on the screen, you wanted to, he has shown some belief and courage, so some passies were good, but we think that my United could do more and that was very, very slow as Ashley just mentioned, so in some way, it's a one point for both and they don't deserve much more, so I don't think that he was entertaining. Perhaps he did let away some fantastic saves in the game, they could do absolutely nothing about that deflected effort, that sign rewarded with the water bottle, but they're wait for a first when we'll extend into October, three-week international break, remember now, their next three games against all of the three sides promoted to the Premier League this summer. So a draw here, and we had a draw, Ellen Rhodes earlier as well, Nill Nill between Leeds United and Crystal Palace, important point that for Pierre Saige, end of a tough week, which they won in Europe, that is the ambition for Leeds and they remain unbeaten as we hit that break, five games into the season, Liverpool also unbeaten, and they did better than that at Bournemouth, actually, they got an important victory, one goal, the difference converted by Alexander Issa, who's shown the way in front of goal at the start of this season for Andoni Iriola, what a game we had yet to add, eight goals in all, three times City scored, three times someone responded, but then City got away at the end, two goals for Antoine, some men here, Harland on the mark as well, and Sonland had no response in the end, so it's five wins out of five for Manchester City, under Enzo Morescar, they go into the break, three points, clear of Arsenal, who beat them by the top scorers in the league, Brighton, three Nill yesterday, they're in third, Brentford fourth, Leeds in fifth Liverpool, climbing into the top six with their victory today. So Manchester United in 12th place, five points from their opening five games, Sonland stay in 14th, Palace climbing with a point, but what about at the bottom? Priceless victory for commentary of first, back in the Premier League yesterday over Nottingham Forest, their 18th, full of slip to 19th and spurs, bottom of the table, two points on the board, they did at least get their first goals of the season yesterday, but they are bottom for the first time since January 2009, former full and legend, Louis Sahar, and former Manchester United striker, Louis Sahar is here with Ashley Young, their thoughts in a few minutes time on just how Manchester United and full and will feel going into this international break, a bit of hop and pop about this one, a lack of energy according to some, but in the end, Kunya was the man who rescued a point for Carrick and United. Hello, I'm Simon Lazenby, join me and a post of top guests on the F1 show after every round of the 2026 Formula One World Championship. Listen to our podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts or watches on the Sky Sports F1 YouTube channel, that's the F1 show from Sky Sports. You're listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast, let's get back to the studio for more reaction to today's game. You can carry it out, Bassie can frame it back. It's Kelvin Bassie, Lohmann saves again and it's bounced off my team as I mean. I have to say, I've watched Manchester United since the age of five and that's the worst 15 minutes I've ever seen them play, absolutely pathetic. Except for Kunya reflection goal, Mattias Kunya has saved Manchester United's skin. It's a scrappy opener, a scrappy equalizer and looking forward to speaking to Gary Neville about his commentary during the game and getting to expand on that, quite a statement from him this afternoon watching that. Manchester United had 29 shots, 41 overall, which is a second most of any match and that 29 is the most we've seen from any away side this season so far but still the only just shade of the expected goal counter and one of these seemed about right overall. Mattias Kunya was with that equalizer, it took the big deflection giving his thoughts now to Natalie Shedra. Mattias, not the result you guys wanted a game where both teams had a lot of chances, so how did you see it? It's hard to say it's so frustrated for us because like I feel in the beginning we put the plan in and then everything then you try to do it, we start to do it and then we create some chance. We did the score on Lucky and yeah they scored like one action like then his heart to explain, control the ball, shoot and then yeah they scored a lot of luck but and then you come back and then this is a little bit frustrated for us because I feel to be honest after the goal, after when you consider the goal like we play much better like with a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of character, a lot of everything then you can do for this club but this need to be from the start you know and yeah it's only one point but with the shirt you never play for one point. Why did you feel that enthusiasm wasn't there all the time especially early in the second half? You guys had so many chances in the first half and then you come back from half time and it's 15 minutes where it seems like it's lacking energy. Yeah yeah it's hard it's hard to explain I don't know honestly I feel like after the first half we always get us a lot of chance we create a lot of things we play well and it was like strong defensively also like I said how we plan to do it and in the beginning of the second half I feel like they they put more energy than us this we cannot accept this but yeah it's like a sudden then they come and then we always play better considering the goal but this cannot be like this. As as I mentioned you guys created a lot of chances especially in the first half 17 shots what is it about those final decisions that isn't going your way? I had to be honest with like today I don't feel like it was something about final decision I know it was a little bit of a lucky I should impose Bruno should impose we have other chances but to be honest we need to create things and hope like they they like come to us and then we score more goals. Your goal comes from the distance we know how dangerous it can be from that position this season you've been playing more closer to the box how's it been for you? I have everything then then we can do to help the team like it's acceptable we need to do our best it's a little bit different role but when I have the ball of course like it's not that difference because I come inside I played a little bit like I played before to create to help my team to create chance but of course I have a little bit more this role to to be in the box and score goals but yeah of course like we need to improve in every single position and then this will be never something then I can do you know it's always something then I will do it and everything to help the team. Of course it's been united when the results don't come there's going to be noise how do you see the team in terms of the progress you guys are making this season where is many united this season? To be honest I don't hurt something from outside to be honest like I always try to improve it my teammates of course you know like how to play this club for me it's a little bit kind of common national teams the same and I think I'm very privileged to play in these two roles but yeah it's only the beginning less season was a little bit same you know a lot of noise around and then we finished third but this is only to improve a little bit earlier because of course if you improve earlier I think we can continue to do something special for the shirt. Thank you mate. Pleasure. And you can see it's not exactly thrilled leaving Craven Cottage with a point this afternoon against the side who were bottom going into this five games in the joint lowest points total that Manchester United have had at this stage of a season Louis as a former Manchester United man you heard what Gary Neville had to say how does that performance leave you feeling? There's some moments I will think that when they decide to accelerate when they decide to be a bit more courageous they look like a Manchester side and there is no problem the quality is there but there is for some reason some moments they accept the speed of as I said a charity game and that's shocking this is where I think that's unacceptable to see the opposition run quicker have like more courage approach in a game more passing from the back from the midfield so finding the spot is something that should be normal and players need to play at the full pace and if they can't make it 70 or 80 minutes they get changed it's not like looking for 90 minute games if you can't make it the intensity that this club needs so I think this is where they are disappointed they know the standard and sometimes when they drop they don't have any even the explanation I think there is a lack of animation it's not about the system is more about saying you have to run forward you have to press some moments you have to make the opposition feel that you are dominant you have to take the game away from them and I think that sometimes they accept that okay they don't press but when they do they they come up with it so I feel very very strange and I don't blame because I played the game and I know sometimes you don't even realize the the the the kind of tempo you have did you recognize this as a Manchester United team right now yes at some moment yes when there are a bit of aggression but there is tendency of being too comfortable and that's why I don't like it at some moment you feel you had the the players who naturally will shout at you I don't need to name the the ones that obviously come to my mind is working but you don't feel like they they realize this and and this is the problem especially in the center of the park you know you have to have that aggression sometimes as some players to to move to on the channel on on on for one position doesn't matter if you're outside you have to do it you have to try and and then we cover you do that pressure and and as a my United fan and and former player you always tends to have this picture from back in the day but that's not easy that's not the same so I just like sometimes think that they they they should feel it and should try as much as they can and if they can make it someone comes that's it when Michael Garrett came in they went on this fantastic run and he took them into the Champions League and that's why he's got the job full time in some respects is it feel like the team has forgotten what it was that made them successful through that period I think at times that you know Manchester United as a team now they're getting more and more possession when Michael Carrick took over it was likely to play more in a counter attack so they had time there was spaces for them to go and exploit when they were going forward you saw it today that you know full of sat in and it needed players to play quick it needed players to play with urgency but it wasn't there it was it was slow it was labored it was like it took 60 minutes for the away fans to start singing for the goal to go in for your night to then say oh do you know what we need to get back into this game can you just set it there you know they go one nil down and then they start getting on the front foot and looking like right it's now time for us to play it's too late then you know you you need to do that from the first whistle you need to have that that intent that intensity straight away to put them on the on the back foot because I do believe if you've done that from a start again and played quick in the the areas where you can hurt fullham you could have won the game it just looked like it was it was too slow and it wasn't good enough it wasn't a managed night a team that you want to say that you know they'd be challenging four four titles it doesn't look that way it looks like there's a lot of work that needs to go into it and I'm sure my character will be saying the intensity in the game that you know fullham pretty much out running I'm sure the sprints I'm sure the distance is the distance certainly told that story exactly six kilometers and that's that's that's that's not acceptable you can't accept that and I'm sure my character won't be accepting that at all like I said that the work will will go into this international break they've got a point there is there was positive there was signs in this game that you know when they did play quick they put fullham on the back foot there was chances they created but when you create them chances you've got to finish them off did they at first go actually which came for fullham come because of the intensity they showed in this game moment Louis definitely that's what I spoke about this passing try to create the space for creativity then and then the movement is you you don't see any hesitation and at some point you have someone to commit again and and and don't be on there so there I think that's Kobe tried to to get the post but it should be on on the left side where the space was and obviously Basé is strong defender there is a few consecutive mistakes there because I think the lemons think that it should not take the ball with his hands but yes overall when you look at this the space is on the left side where the middle of the park and and this is where so you think when Martin has touches it here that that lemons has decided he can't use his hands there because he's going to give away a free kick yes definitely that's it's out of a thinking and it's too late that's where he gets mixed up a little bit and if he uses end he's said he's gone but it's not it's not a back pass is it and anybody's not a chance it's always you know the his instinct I think it is thinking if if I do this this is going to be you know an indirect free kick or whatever it's going to be you know straight away you just try and say that and then deal with it afterwards because you don't want to concede the goal if you do then give a free kick at least you've got an opportunity to defend that but I think it doesn't even blow because if you push the ball away if you catch it yes maybe the referee will say oh that's look like a intentional but if you push it and say oh okay it was an intentional something that you don't want to to catch the ball I think the referee say oh okay it's fine are we wrong to think that the center half in that situation can't actually handle that moment better as well Martinez I think he he tries to defend it and I think that you know when it comes back from the keeper here you do seem I think he's trying to with his right foot I think he's trying to put it beside the the post he's trying to put it out for a corner but his body is going hard to go so it's really hard to adjust sometimes you have the wrong momentum and it's difficult so that's why it's a consecutive mistakes movement coordination but football is going quick people think it's on the surface easy believe me he's quick did anybody think there there was a foul from Bassie in the buildup? no I don't think it was a foul at all I think Louis just said there to know the pass should have gone on the left-hand side and I couldn't he's got to take Bassie away I've played against Bassie I know how strong he is if you get him like this you're not getting passed and it was it was too lightweight it was it was so good from Bassie but like I said then there was a number of things Bassie's pass you know this pass here you've got to go in behind because they're so high full and was so high they'll plan 2v2 Bassie gets the ball and this is this is the consequences of that if you don't run in behind at times you're just going to bring the defense onto you and if you've got someone that strong he's just going to swap you and get you out the way did you see the equalizer coming? they were huffing and puffing I think there was they were always going to get chances because full of you know when you when you go one in up I think you've got to stay on the front foot and go and get the second goal it's it's easier said than done it made the change put another center half on as well in this moment and I think that's where you then go too defensive and you know Kunya we said it he had his intent there he opens his body out and he avers it it takes a shot and you know when you risk it at times this can be the benefit yeah you you commit you put a lot of people in that box so Philam has to drop you have to defend you have to put the the body up so it allowed the midfielders or anyone to strike this is the nature of the game and that's most of the goal comes at that moment of tension because you commit so center half will come some some other players will come and that provide this insecurity and a lot of questions are I need to be answered and this is the problem where United try to accelerate and ask questions to the defenders this is where players make mistakes if you don't do it if you slow down the game those guys have the time to think about it you know they pick the choice I say okay I see him run I call my teammates and all that they don't understand that if they do that they will cup they are quick they are strong so United has the IQ maybe sometimes the experience sometimes the technique this because of the the quality of the players they have they have to commit they have to really challenge the position not make them comfortable because anyone have good players but they got the equalizer tough perhaps on Perlano who saved everything to that point he's giving his reaction to Natalie Jedra Bernard how do you take this one because you guys were very close to getting that first premier league win but then in the end with the deflection considering the goal it hurts because I think we were leading I think of course many United had some chances probably they deserve to score that goal but whenever you can see it's so late goals it's always it's always brutal but sometimes that's football we have to earn our points even more and I think yeah there was still a lot of positive things to take from this game yeah there were a lot of chances for both teams so how is it for a goalkeeper to be involved in a game like this where you have to be alert really all the time because there's so much happening on both boxes yeah I think I was a bit prepared because I know when United they have a lot of individual quality I've been playing against them like for many many years and I know them really well and also the way they play against teams like us is always you have to be always alert and counter tag and on set piece and all that stuff and even if they shoot from distance and everything so it was not that easy too it was not that difficult to prepare these kind of games and obviously it helped when when you make some saves you feel like in the game you feel very very focused and yeah unfortunately I couldn't keep out the last ball but that's football how have you seen the teams work defensively because there's been a lot of talk about that of course it's a very attacking brand of football but how have you seen the progress defensively I think you could see the more we play the more control we have I think in the first couple of games I think we were a little bit like too emotional we worked on that but at the end we know that you can't change things like from within like one or two months it takes sometimes a little bit time but I think you could see now we we are much more balanced also at Enfield we were much more balanced good control and and everything and offensively where we have a lot of quality to score I think especially in the first half with a couple of good chances I think lamas did a couple of good saves as well and yeah as I said a lot of positive things to take yeah unfortunately still no Premier League wins for for full and so far but how do you see you guys this season in terms of the ideas that are being implemented I think as I said there are a lot of positive things to take and there's still a lot of improvement but I think as you can see the the team is alive the team is fighting is running you can see you can see our structure our organization how are we play and and everything so this is very very positive and I think with a new manager with a little bit new philosophy I think we will win games we have to believe and I'm I'm 100% sure that wins will come and then you you get more confidence and the momentum as well you should work hard your player of the match congratulations Bernan thank you very much thank you and you need to know five saves in all some very good ones but could do nothing about the Mateus Kunya equalizer can you actually argue from a Manchester United perspective that it wasn't for Lendo it might have been a comfortable victory here it could have been yeah on another day maybe a different goalkeeper they they do score more but they know it was outstanding the saves you see that he's pulled off here this one here he's actually gone the opposite way and he manages to spring back the other side and gets a strong handle to turn it around the post he was he was superb today for Fulham and you know I think if they can keep him like this if Fulham can keep playing the way they do you know I think they'll they'll be more than okay especially with the games that they've got coming up next yeah the three promoted sides they face next building on the the pointed and field and a point at home against Manchester United again Manchester United might have an argument that there should have been a penalty just before they're equalizer this was incident was right in front of us down here and it's Calvin Bassett at the heart of it again yes he's hands up ball hits his hands what are you saying Louis all right it's a gun of 50 50 you don't know now with the rules it's clearly like it is and but they wrote they wrote it out on field and VAR backed them up by saying that proximity was an issue because he was so close to it and his hands are close to his body but natural instinct is to protect your face you know because you know you're going to be it even if you're a tough center like that so it's so different rules every weekend we don't understand so some referee will blow and some others will we send on this is what the assistant said it's close to his body it's hit it's hit but his arm is close to his body referee says on field decision is play on VAR says arms close to his body as seen confirming the on field decision exactly as described on field you see I think there would have been harsh if they'd give the penalty for that you know I know he's his hands they are now he's hit his hands but you sort of hurt him and go out they managed to get the goal from from that one definitely won a penalty for me. The football season is back and you can keep across all the action on Sky Sports with 1500 live games available for you to watch this season that includes 80% of all televised Premier League games plus matches in the WSL EFL and Scottish Premiership if you're not already a Sky customer and want to sign up head to sky.com to get all the details now though let's get back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. How disappointing in the end for Fulham who led for 26 minutes here in the second half against Manchester United only to be denied victory in the dying moments by Mateusz Kurnier's strike his Elvaro are below and now with Natalie Jettra. Elvaro how frustrating is this one? Yes we were so close so so close so we were a little bit lucky again but we knew that it was going to be difficult against this big team also we knew what happened last week and we have seen what the referee has been doing during all the matches so difficult game and yes we were lucky. You mentioned the referee do you feel like there were key decisions that didn't go your way? Yes I think all falls for them and you can say before they just call the the foul against Maguire is a guy that is 100 kilos so yeah every decision was for them and I knew I knew after the game against Man City that they don't let to Manchester United lose here and yeah I think we deserve a little bit more. How much do you feel that that ultimately affected the result? Well now I prefer to be focused on what we did well and how we work and the team was defending well and we have some chances that we could score obviously Manchester had their chances also but we were so so close to our first victory that we are a little bit upset now. Why do you feel ultimately you couldn't score the winner? You had really good chances you forced some really good saves from Saint Lamines. Yes I think we did a good game and obviously no it's a game for us that we were in the bottom of the beginning of the game but we saw again some personality with the ball and we were brave and of course we have some moments where where we have to defend our goal but I think in general we did a good game. In terms of the game plan were you satisfied because it was a match where both teams had a lot of chances. Yes we wanted to control their their transition their counter attacks and we know that they put too many people inside with Cugna with Bruno the two midfielders so we need to control the space behind our worst midfielders we were to be so compact so close and yes for moments we were doing well and they sometimes find this space and we were struggling but yes it's a difficult match against a big big team for me they will be on the top of the of the lead at the end of the season so now we need to rest and continue working and try to find the first victory. Yeah as you said a lot of positives but still looking for that first Premier League win how do you make sure that that doesn't take away the confidence of the players in the work that you guys are building not having this Premier League win yet. Well if you see our first five games we have already played against Man United against Chelsea in downfield a downfield is Sandela in a way so what are games for us from from the beginning so now we have a month in October that will be so important for us and and like I said we I think we saw the the thing that we want to be the character the ambition the personality and I think if we play in that way the victories will come. Thank you. Thank you. Louis I think your first visit to see your former club this season are you encouraged? I am as I said before the foundation is here they have the courage I like the attacking approach that they have some really talented players some young players there is a good combination so definitely they need to be a bit more clinical in both boxes but I think the vision is right the manager obviously knows it's a bit of a transition he trying to impose a few things and this philosophy need to be digested so I I think the fans enjoy the game as we seen last year or two years with Marco Silva so it's just a bit of luck they consider I think it's a lucky goal so it's an equation. Let's have a look at the the incident that he was upset about now he seems to suggest that a lot of decisions went against his team today because of what happened to Manchester United last week he says that is not a foul Palacio Son McGuire actually what are you saying? It's definitely a foul look at Palacio it's not even looking at the ball and I know okay he said Tom McGuire is 100 kg but you know he smiles he's just waiting for the fouls to be committed you know look at this he's not even looking at the ball he's just straight into how McGuire's back he fills the arm and seems like the biggest foul though is it it's not but it's still a foul it's still a foul that's of course the goal you do great I think it is yeah it's maybe soft but that's where some players have experience they use their body in the right way when you want to use force he does it really well but there in this position you thought that he couldn't take the control so so yes I think he was a clever clever piece of war from McGuire yeah and that piece of play continues on could you benefit from that little piece of fortune as well the flexion goes in so let's have a look at Fulham start to the season so far still looking for their first win denied by that equalizing goal there question is are they getting closer they're certainly getting more solid and they have the the carrot of Ipswich away whole home commentary and away in the next three but is there a flip side here where you might say there's probably more pressure because you're playing those three yeah it definitely is you know I think no Ipswich Hall will start the world commentary obviously got the first points this weekend so you know when you you talk about playing that the teams that have been promoted you know is a lot of pressure that you're going to point on to yourself and you know with the weight I've started you know they showed a lot of good signs today but the promoted sides you're thinking like these the ones we're going to beat and get the points is it going to be that way you know we'll have to see after the national break we will indeed and we're going to be very interesting what happens to Manchester United after this international break as well when we come back we will reflect on that we will hear from Michael Carrick Gary Neville is standing by to join us as well and we're talking Manchester United next hello there this is Greg James you might know me from talking early in the morning about pop music celebrity guests and doing stupid games but alongside also talking endlessly about cricket I also love Formula One and I have a Formula One podcast that I started with Christian Hugh Gill and Betty Glover and it's now part of the Sky Sports F1 team every week the fast and curious we'll give you exclusive F1 chats sometimes with the drivers sometimes with the team principles and it's co-hosted by Christian Hugh Gill and Betty Glover Christian tell people why the fast and curious is so good well we like to find the fun in Formula One we like to celebrate the sport we like to not take it too seriously as well as having fun with those aforementioned drivers and team principles Greg and we also like to explain it as we go along if you're newer to Formula One we like to break down some of the more complicated areas and just generally enjoy ourselves along the way really over the last few years we've created a really amazing gang of listeners and we'd love you to join in as well you can search the fast and the curious wherever you listen to your podcast we can watch it on the Sky Sports F1 YouTube channel welcome back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast it's time to get more analysis of today's match and head back to the studio Manchester United got out of jail here at Craven College this afternoon don't think even the players were impressed with what they saw from themselves on the picture day here at full and better one old drawer to round things up before the break here's Michael Carrick now with Natalie Jedra Michael a game where both teams head a lot of chances so what do you take from it ultimately yeah I thought we should have won the game before we created enough to win the game I thought we had a lot of go play actually in the game and then to go the goal that we did concede is one of them one of them goals and the boys could have thought you know it's one of those days and it's gone against us but I really like the reaction the way we finished the game and come back into the game will be easy for that game to to go in another direction so and we we nearly won it at the end with a big block from Lichert's chance so we came to get the win of course with it the way the game is panned out and in the reaction and the way we finished the game is the positive is that we take from it yeah and the chance is created as well 29 shots during the match what is it about the final decisions that you feel like it's not going your way I think probably they're goalkeeper really the saves that he's made today he's probably made three three top top saves and arguably man of the match so that tells you of how much we've worked in we hit the polls twice and had a lot of opportunities you know so I think there was a lot of it that was good you know of course we want to win the game we're not happy about not winning the game but there's these things to take from it for sure you mentioned the reaction after their goal but those first 15 minutes in the second half that men united looked a bit passive the does that spell worry you a little bit I didn't think we did no did you think we were passive in the first 15 minutes men united didn't have any shots up until their goal yeah that doesn't mean you're passive football's difficult game so just because you're you know we we control a lot of the first off what we played a lot of good football today we had a spell in the game it's primarily you're going to have certain spells in the game when you don't have it all your own way and the goal they scored as it's pretty obvious how it's come about and arguably a foul at one point on on Mateus and then it's a rig two deflections that that goes their way so I think to expect total dominance for the whole game I don't think really anyone gets that in this league but overall you are happy with the levels of energy that the team brought to the team to the game today yeah and in terms of the performance overall and and coming together with the results as well where do you see men united right now what this game ultimately says about men united I think we need to get carried away it's not a big judgment call all of a sudden just because we've played a game today I think we I think we can take a lot from today I think we need to learn a lot as well of of this first period of first chapter of the season really we know we could we can be better and we need to be better at certain things that's that's that's pretty clear and and we will be I thought there was good signs today again and and the way we finished the game really strongly that'll that'll take us that'll take us through the season you know because it's easy not to be like that in three weeks now for of international break how do you make the best out of this period of course with players away as well yeah well there's there's only so much you can do I think the players that we have we'll obviously we'll train we'll we'll work with them and we'll improve them as much as we can think there'll be a little bit of time off as every couple do the same and then get ready for the restart when we come back thank you Michael just thank there we go that's the reaction of Michael character one all draw here Gary Neville is here as you can see and Gary that was really interesting what you said on commentary there watching Manchester United since you were five years old that is the worst 15 minutes of football that you can remember seeing from Manchester United I was purely sticking to your guns on that one yeah I was purely referring to the fact that they walked around the pitch I've never seen the Manchester United team walk out of possession as much as that and Michael just said there that he was happy with the team's energy Michael's got to stop defending them he's got to stop defending I get I get why he's defending him he's loyal he wants his players to work for him and obviously there's a long way to go in the season to be first sometimes we can say things that can be what option does he have Gary when he's he's got to take these players I think I get that but the ball teams were the same I called them mannequins they were absolutely mannequins I've never seen a Manchester United team for 15 minutes walk around out of possession as much as that no alertness no liveliness no sort of on your toes you should be always on your toes there's no sort of shifting up to a three yard just walking when following were in possession full mad 46 passes in the first couple of minutes of the game to get a chance 46 passes full am against Manchester United I don't know how many over 10 past sequences full am I doing that much Michael is going to have to it's a great time for the international break and for the three weeks it's a great time because there needs to be a rebalance he's got too many players in the team now I actually wish he could play those attacking players but they're going to kill him defensively it's not just the defense and the back four that are causing a problem you've got and Burma and Rashford were too wide and too high they don't narrow back in he knows that position better than anybody used to get back in a narrow you midfield you then got Telemann some manual midfield or a little bit one pace or believe it probably will come in there and then Bruno to be fair at times just floats around a little bit then you've got clenieru floats around a little bit so you've got these sort of five or six players really we're all better with the ball than without the ball it would be great to see them go and score loads of goals and maybe concede one or two and win games but there is going to have to be a reset from a point of view of defensive structure because there's far too many of them walking on the pitch that don't think they have to do the ugly part of the game and I never very rarely do I say that a team doesn't work hard or is lacking in effort because that's the ultimate criticism that you can give a group of players and I always think football players want to wake up in the morning and they want to win the football match and not get criticized so I'm always very careful to say that but that first 15 minutes that second half managed to unite without the ball and generally for the first six minutes we're in an absolute disgrace nowhere near good enough without the ball nowhere near good enough I think there is more momentum in the game where I said the pass was very slow the momentum of going forward the risk taking was not the standard we expect and that's why Phil I'm getting comfortable they had that confidence because they see you know position that take the time they they they they seem to walk around they seem to are fresh so I mean that instead of like pressing and and stop maybe at one meter they stay at free and allow the usual as another pass and do you agree with Michael Carrick then he was asked whether they were passive in that first 15 minutes as he he took I understand what Gary is saying is like he's trying to protect his player definitely is trying to do this and we know his character is not someone is going to be maybe a conflictual and especially give food for the for the media that's not his style but in some of the patches of the game he should not accept this I understand this grace is like there seems moment they are not aware of it they seem that he's comfortable so at the animation is not right the way they're not aware of it I think I guess mansionized I think got the second or third all this team in the league most of those players have got over 15 international caps how can they not be aware of it you know what I'm saying is because back in the day where we were playing I'm not talking about back in the day that's what I'm talking about listen listen I'm talking about not seeing them forest in Coventry let's start with that I understand but the the moment where some players take the the responsibility to say we are not accelerating guys I don't see this I don't see any way yes in some way some players taking not going to say listen that's not good enough we need to speed up the the the play because it's too comfortable for the organization either those players have got more than probably 50 caps for the country they don't speak about it that's what they don't speak about it could it be a consequence of the week they've had the season the season they've had I've started in the worst possible fashion losing at home it could be something to it for the start of season but I understand both points as well you know I don't think my character's going to come out and say you know we weren't playing with energy we weren't getting to the boys of course we play with managers that are going to protect the players my character's going to do the same but inside when they're in the dressing room when they're back at Karen and I think that he will end be saying and showing them clips listen you've got to get to the ball you've got to get up to the ball quicker you've got to run more like we said they're full of outrun them again and it could be a number of different factors but my character will not accept you're not sprinting to the ball not getting up to the ball not shuffling across there's there's too much it being too nice like Louis said there there's leaders in that team but it doesn't look like anybody's talking you know to say to someone else next to me listen you're not running we didn't have that we always had that in this team everyone everyone's a leader on that pitch when you come on that pitch you might have one captain but there's got to be everyone that's talking because you help each other the defenders will help the midfielders the midfielders will help the attackers that's what is needed it needs to have voices all round the pitch and if you haven't got that then people will just be getting away of it in the games but I don't think Michael Carrick will accept that let's remind you where Manchester United got to as we head into the international break their joint lowest points five games into the season how far below this is what you expected from Manchester United Gary at the start of this season given the way they ended last I think each of the five Premier League games have brought Michael a different problem the first game the season I think whole surprise them with the physicality their aggression I think the set pieces I think they just caught them out and that was that was how they lost that game it switched then the first half caught them on the countertack and then see so kept getting in between them and there was a little bit first signs there that maybe Manchester United's defensive balance wasn't right and they were going to have problems against teams of countertack ever too much game management in the last ten minutes when they obviously were sort of in front and they didn't manage that game well the city game a whole host of different things happening in that game obviously a terrible goal to have I'd go against them but also not been able to handle playing against ten men and know how to have the idea to play against ten men today was a different problem altogether I thought it was a team who to be fair without the ball day was so easy to play against and I want to repeat it for the first 15-20 minutes that second half you talk about Manchester United having 26 shots full-on could have scored four or five goals as well and Manchester United were walking out on that pitch all of them in front of lemons all of them in that first ten 15 minutes that second half that is not acceptable that is not acceptable so they responded well I'm you know from a positive perspective they've come away with a point thankfully else it would have been doom and gloom and that was a good response to the fact that they actually went a goal down but the fact they've had to get into that position and what I'm saying about Michael I hope Michael is to be fair giving them a real grilling behind the scenes in respect of that performance because that will land Michael in a lot of trouble that type of work ethic without possession you know the lack of running the lack of shuffling across the lack of getting into the ball the lack of alertness the lack of being ready just to sort of get on the front foot the lack of talking to shift up a yard I didn't see any of that any of that and that's a real problem so the attitude to defender the team so often they may have to do is go with Belieber in midfield maybe with Manu and Telemens or Manu and Bruno maybe go 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 in defence and maybe pull one of the attacking players out so he's a bit more solid maybe that's a reset he could do over the next few weeks but there's going to have to be a rebalance of the defensive structure of the teams at the moment if they carry on like that they will concede so many goals week after week and they are doing I mean they'll look at today on to concede one couple of weeks off and then they go again against Spurs now Spurs fans will call themselves Dr Tottenham because they have a history of making teams who are in a bad way feel better about themselves that is at home for Manchester United and it feels like a huge game as United come off that international break then they're into this two games a week it's a tough run that isn't it and maybe there's just a reset the next three weeks that will be needed ahead of that runner games I think it's definitely needed you know I think there's a lot of work that's going to be done in these next few weeks especially with these runner games coming up like they work so hard to get Champions League football you don't want to go into the Champions League not playing in a right way not running you're going to play against afloat koma druid dig of similar in these teams will run nonstop as will koma as will koma as I think will lead you know you know I've not played leads away but you can see exactly how intense them games are if the intensity is not there if you're not running you're going to come on stuck in these games and these are massive games that you've got coming up they're not easy they've got tough games coming up it's just just just just quickly Ashley's language is a lot Ashley's language is a lot more pleasant than mine right so well where I might say disgrace and say the reason I refer to the word disgrace is when I see teams as Ashley says not running for 15 minutes I think that has been a disgrace not running is the only thing that I will call disgrace to be honest with you we've got a couple of clips for you Gary see if we can if this illustrates what you're talking about here this is that in that stage of the start of a second half just just watch Bruno what's Bruno watch cun you watch menu watch been burmo yep a couple of a couple of them maybe jogging a couple of them maybe jogging but look look at this now you might look at the two midfield players they're walking the two midfield players are walking the two front players are walking the back four are walking do we think that's right do actors any of us think that's right could this be a tactical plan as well Gary and just just hit me out on this whether they're trying to get full of them to come through them so they open the space up behind them that's a plan could it be of counter attack as they don't last here yeah something like this no there's deep defended I get deep defended look I don't know just let's be clear there's nothing about this that can be planned now I think my problem is more when they have the ball they are way too slow definitely like we have seen some that's because you're a team you see it differently yes that's what I mean this is where I think you're having like two different you know opinion is important I think when you look at the opposition and you's trying to you know let them pass it happens and but yes the commitment of like trying to press when you decide to press as a as a group yes maybe there is a lack of belief and an aggression I totally get it and especially in the 15 minutes but when the pass you recover that ball and you think that you're walking around and you think that you're gonna be the best player because you have the best player we've rashi we've uh we've uh and we're more that's a problem that's great because I mean look I watch United when they get the ball actually think they come to life a little bit and they look brighter Louis thinks they're too far too slow and I see it the other way when they're defending I just see apathy and just generally just ambling around the pitch walking whereas Louis sees it the opposite way that actually that when they're in possession he thinks they're I think they're actually brighter in possession actually Gary says that the team need to reset but it's going to be with this group of players isn't it it doesn't really get much better than this in terms of the the 11 on the field uh suppose Chesco could force his way into it belabor as as Gary says could come into that midfield and might add a bit more energy and dynamism but how do you reset everybody else? I think it's like what you said that you know players are going to go off on international duty now the ones that are there that are working are going to have to work and then relayed out to the players that are going to come back from uh international duty it's not gonna be easy it's gonna take time but when you go into the fixtures you've got coming up it's gonna it's gonna be hard it's gonna be difficult but like I said I'm sure behind the scenes micro characters going to be saying to the players listen it's there to see the stats the running stats the sprints whatever it is you're not doing enough we know Manchester United teams we were set on working hard you work hard you get up to the ball I don't know whether it's going to be shaped that they're going to be doing in training um to when it is defensive shape maybe they are sitting off waiting and thinking you know last season when we was in in our shape we waited and we counter attacked let me tell you that that's what the team played off so maybe that's what they've they've come into this season and now teams are like well you we're going to give you more possession and now it's a reset of well we haven't had that much possession last season we played more counting football so it's it's gonna be massive these next couple of weeks to implement more of that more of running sprinting up to the ball defensive shape and getting the forwards working together as an attacker as Gary said we have different perception what I said like the rhythm I kill me as a as a striker if I do my runs if I if I see that the midfields that are taking too many touches I don't know what to do I feel like the United side need these confidence need that uh contract with the kind of tempo and this is where now it imposes uh Kobe Manu and the midfield when he's got pressure is better when he's like too comfortable I think it's like slow down the his game and that's not good for his uh his team and I think there is like a lot of players it could be filaments and he's gonna be paliba if he's not giving the animation and say listen you have to bombard forward you have to press you have to do this this is where he's put him the the team in danger and this is where it doesn't matter don't play for playing 90 minutes I want you to play for full energy and if you dead after 70 someone comes in and this is the the problem that I see uh too many times too many games Gary what you think on this they've had they've had 29 shots they've responded to go in a goal down in a positive manner so does the manager come under pressure does that mean Michael Carrey does pressure start to go into the pressure but I just want to be clear full of were as bad defensively as Manchu and I do and I said that continually throughout the game without ball team but the both of them were the worst I've seen defensively in the Premier League this season by a long way so that that game was a nothing at times to be fair it was the fact that there were 29 shots both defenses no 29 shots from Manchester United but how many shots did full of them have uh it was 41 or so 12 but still it's full of my really good chances full of my three four five chance in the first half where they could have scored and for me I look at that game Michael look Michael I'm sure he's saying a different course he's saying something different in front of us than what he's saying privately I that would have really worried me today that that would have really worried me I mean maybe people start asking questions about the manager answer that of course last of course they've no ask questions about him but you knew that when he took the job but there's no there's no panic in that sense no one's no one's talking about Michael Carrick and putting pressure on Michael Carrick what I'm saying is though if those types of performances continue he will find himself in a lot of trouble they've got to work harder than that for him I'm absolutely not changing my mind on that those players I've got to work harder for Michael Carrick or it will cause him a massive issue because they didn't work hard enough today and that's the biggest criticism I can give you I think all of those players and I've said I've liked them for six months of last season under Michael Carrick they can all work a lot harder than that they're getting out run in every single match out running every single match let's just deal with that as a basic to start with now I get the facts someone will say okay we count to attack and we don't use them much energy and all that sort of stuff they're older I get it but is it a team that needs resetting from a point of view it's got two in balance from players who don't want to actually to prefer do that they ugly part of the game and I think it's just going over the edge and two balance the other way and the imbalance has gone too far the other way they need to work harder defensively or else they'll have massive issues they will not go to Como athletic comedy read Legion item and get away with it they might get away with it full of they'll not get away with it in those games they haven't been helped the transfer hasn't been great so some of those animation again that's my my world not a system hasn't helped the manager basically is dealing with what he has some are injured some may not at the top form confidence whatever and this is where they're going not he's going to fill up ground which you have to respect but they don't come with the the team that show a much than united side it's going to go with this confidence with this speed they they they are naturally 80% they're not playing to the full because of this quad who is not naturally positioned in a way to actually impose this rhythm that's that's my problem so yes it's going to be under pressure because it's the manager of united and it's a big club but people understand this transfer market wasn't good and they have to really raise their hand and say okay yes so we have to deal with this maybe for next three months and and and see how we can manage to this he didn't get one of his first three he didn't get one of his first choice midfield players so they need it three always needed three he wanted Anderson he wanted maybe finale he wanted Fernandez he wanted maybe a couple of others that he didn't get and they went to other clubs so he didn't get one of his first choice midfield players if he was sat out there today with L.A. Anderson midfield and Fernandez and Tanali that's a different game he then didn't get the two defenders that he really needed to make sure that they were better defensively so I completely agree with you that there's no doubt that man's united should have done better for Michael carcassion have insisted that he brought those players in for him because an accretive player as well someone who can break the lines but I think like a bit more than but they've got if you look at what they've got up top I'm not saying that they're all right players but you've got Amad and Burmo, Jessica, Kunia, Rashford, Fernandez, Mount, Dorgu you've got eight players there in that area yes it's a lot you know me I'm not saying they're all and did you say Zerxie? Zerxie it was the player they turned to in the second half it was Jay Lacey you've got so someone has to maybe play outside the comfort zone someone has to play in a different world a different tempo I don't see them there is no someone who is close to Burno Fernandez creating those passing Mason could be but he hasn't proved maybe his fitness hasn't helped but we needed someone who's a playmaker he can can impose this rhythm understanding we had so I come back to the old days again but Paul's course was able to do it without the legs I'm not saying that he wasn't running but he was able to find those passports I'm going to ask Ashley a question because you played I was coached with England when you played right and Roy used to play you all the time on the left-hand side your work ethic was absolutely incredible what do you see out there from why players work ethic compared to the work ethic you were putting for Manchester United and for England I think filler I think it's totally different now yes you know with like I saw Mark's Rashford out there today and you know at times I was told you need to work back as well with with the full backs I think because Manchester United have got this style of wanting to play on the counter attack he's wanting to go the other way instead of going back to help Luke Shaw he's going to be in a position where if the full back goes on in Castanio if he's going to go on he could be in a position to pick up the ball and then go forward I think Brian and Bruno was exactly the same you know Andy Robinson at times will go in and go in and go in he would stay and and not have to defend maybe that's a a style that that they've adopted you don't have to send them midfielders that come out coming main and comes out Telemann's then goes out and then it leaves massive spaces in the middle there's there's got to be some something something somebody in that team that says listen we're not working back enough we've got to talk to each other and say listen I need you here but you play as a full back I play as a full back if you had a winger in front of you that wasn't working back and you had 2v1 most of the time you'd be saying forget this counter attack in I need you back here because this is where the threats coming from so I think there's something there where you know the players the wide players are told maybe you don't have to work back as much because at times I know I had to work all the way back to literally right back or left back positions but it could be that way with the with look at our last season was letting them off the hook because I play for the good for 25 years under a guise of we want world class players who work like lead to players that's it which is what was always said about just loner is absolutely world class players who work and head and tackle and run like lead to players that's it and that's not being disrespectful to lead to because I watch it every single week but they work their absolute guts off those players to get back into shape and that's what you want there's no excuse for not the front backs or the wingers but to be fair I would say the front part of the pitch day I don't think any of that six were showing the level of urgency that I would expect without the ball you say with the ball as well but I say without the ball to be fair because I look at it from a defensive perspective thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast make sure you give us a follow so you don't miss an episode see you next time