The Tactical Renaissance of St. Louis City and the Structural Fragility of MLS Superteams

Hello everybody and welcome to the Total Soccer Show, my name is Taylor Rockwell and it's Tuesday which means it is time to talk some major league soccer we will be taking a look back at the weekend that was we're going to talk about some teams that we are buying and maybe also selling because we're all billionaires with that amount of money to spend and we're going to be spotlighting the greatest team that Joe has ever seen regardless of competition. It's the city Joe are you excited for it. You know I could have like almost gotten on board a fat in an MLS context and then you went regardless of competition. And unfortunately I will have to leave that take. I will have to sell that take. It's a lot cheaper not as much return on selling that take and burn to selling an MLS franchise. But nonetheless, I am endlessly impressed with St. Louis and very excited to talk about them and many other things on today's show. Thank you for that, Joe. It now has me wondering, Jeff Reuter, is there a worse team you've ever had to cover? You've ever had to spend time or good luck about in any way, shape or four. I have, I covered the old NSL. So, yes, that's a fucking routine. That we're going to leave it. Not even a specific team, just a grouping of teams in a point of time. I had this weird cottage industry start back in the NSL of like Jeff heard when the clubs about to die. And so there were like three or four different reports I put out in the NSL era that was like they're not paying their players on time. They don't have water. The team owner left and took 10% of the training field with them. Don't have water. Like stuff like that where you're just like, okay. The training field, you just pull up the saw. Do you remember that? It was Rio KC. It's been 10 years. Yeah, they took part of the pitch. Like the owner was just like, no, I'm taking my field with me. Good luck. The only part of it. Well, they had they only had a certain share of it. Of course, these things aren't just one owner. It's always a board, right? So take what's yours. Why why are you I swear you knew that it's so much logical sense. He took a percentage of the field. Yeah, wow. Yeah, it's a good way to control field tilt teams. If you're trying to remove 10% of the pitch and it's a lot harder for the opponent to pass on that third. Oh, you're you're going to press I guess is no, you're not. No, there's no feel up there. Not in black for no pal. Yeah, exactly. Enjoy. That's like a wily coyote trap. For real. We've done the whole kind of free flowing soccer. We've done positional play. I think it's time that we just modify the fields and increase like little pitfalls and booby traps and stuff across the field. Yeah. Sporting agent meets Lini Tunes who says no, the answer might be truly my favorite opening to an episode of the show that I've ever been a part of. Unbelievable. All right. Well, join us in segment four when we get into more ways. Correct. Yes. Soccer involving cartoons. For now, Joe, let's talk St. Louis city. Yeah. For people who maybe only watch the league for their team, have a general knowledge of the team. Can you give us a background as to why we are talking about St. Louis. What it is they are doing what makes them so notable at present. Yeah, at the moment, they're the hottest team and majorly soccer, which is impressive, given the the Philadelphia Union exists in the Philadelphia Union are unbeaten since the World Cup break. But St. Louis are unbeaten for longer. There are 16 games unbeaten in league play that comes after their 3-1 win over trying to FC on Saturday. And as they've gone through league play, they've also qualified for the final of the U.S. Open cups. They'll go to Columbus next month and play the final with a real chance to win it. They probably won't be favorite in that game just because of home field advantage for the crew, but it'll be darn close. I bet if you look at the odds makers because that's how good St. Louis city have been. They've been good at home. They've been good enough to get results on the road, which is not something we see from a lot of MLS teams. I mentioned that 16 games unbeaten street that they're on right now. They are four regular season games away from setting MLS's all-time record for consecutive results. So they need three to tie and four to be the single holder of that particular record. We don't see this happen in majorly soccer. Like we see extended unbeaten runs in European play all the time because there is still a large disparity between the best and the worst in a league. Even if that gap is narrowing, it seems like a bit in the Premier League. It still exists, at least relative to majorly soccer. MLS, there's so much parity that is at times difficult to tell even who the good teams are. Well, St. Louis have done our work for us because they have just continued to pick up result after result after result. This team's journey from changing out there basically entire primary sporting staff during and after last season with Olaf Melberg. Remember him? He was around for a little bit of time. Luke's financial deal getting shown the door last season. And now new players come in and they have clearly turned around the entire fortunes of this franchise. St. Louis had success before, the Bradley Cornell era, them going and making a really impressive regular season run to win the West in their expansion season. But this is different. Like this is sustainable in a way that that wasn't. And I think there are so many fascinating reasons as to why that is that we can get into. What's number one on that list you. I think for me, fascinating reasons. I genuinely the thing that I like most about this team though I don't know that this is the most important thing is that tactically they're doing something that no team in MLS is doing. And I'm not sure that really any team in MLS has ever done before. So they are using in possession and they're a very ball oriented team which shouldn't be a big surprise. When you think about you on the May coaching this group in Corey Ray, leaving the front office both have Columbus crew connections. Both were there sort of during the peak of the Columbus crews dominance earlier this decade. They are a ball oriented team and in possession, they do some crazy stuff that is just not done around Major League Soccer. They play out of this three diamond three possession shape. So they have their back three center backs, which is very crew-esque. They're not playing with the Boxman field. They basically stop playing with that Columbus crew Boxman field back in March. So they just started the season. They started in the box and then they moved to a diamond. And it's Chris Starken as a single pivot. It's two number eights and it's a number ten underneath the striker and then you have the wing backs with providers. But it's not even that simple with St. Louis. And this is the thing that gets me. They're so flexible. And the players seem to understand each other so well under you on to May's coaching that they can get into that diamond structure in different ways. So at times it is it's Daniel Edelman floating out from the deeper midfielder area to go be one of the wide midfielders. At other times it's a wing back Conrad Volum who's one of the most underrated players in Major League Soccer. He starts on the right side in defense for this team, but he will pinch inside and actually become a member of that diamond as well. So they can get to the diamond structure in different ways and it continuously disorganizes how opposing teams have to defend them. They're not not only overloading with four that central midfielder area. Most teams don't play with four. Philly do national sort of kind of do, but not really. It's more they play with two than four. There's not there's not a real cohort of MLS teams doing that. So they have the numerical advantage in almost every moment. And they get there in different ways so that it disorganizes the opponent in different ways. And it makes it so difficult for them to actually figure out where to commit their numbers. And the result of this has been there are eight in the league and expect to go expect to goals for while being fifth and expect to goals a lot. So it's not even like they're compromising defensive solidity for this this overloaded attacking structure. They are doing both things and it is just so ridiculous to watch like we're not seeing any other team at MLS do this exact thing. And I really don't recall ever seeing a team at MLS do it or at least not do it like this. Joe, can you take us for the quickly through that shape one more time? So in the three, four, three, because normally we're used to like three defenders. Then you've got like your two wing backs, your two centimeters, your two wide attackers are forward. So it's three defenders, three center backs, whatever you want to call. And then when you're looking at the attacking three, is it a strike or in the two wing backs, make your three. Typically, typically, right? So that's the primary look where if it is the best personnel, I think for St. Louis, that is how they end up looking a lot of the time. So it will be, let's just use, we can use names to make this a little simpler. It'll be half a Navarro who plays the top as the number nine. I didn't get the best version of St. Louis. And we've seen this. And then really wide like there's no half space wingers here. It's all the way wide wing backs as your front three. And typically that's Thomas Tutland on the left and Conrad Volum on the right. So that's your three. Then underneath that attacking three, you have your diamond. And now often that's been Carla Holsa. The new DPU came from Turkey. He's been the number 10 to the tip of the diamond. And then as you're two number eights, you have Alex Matan, often on the left side. They brought him in from Panathanaikos. In Greece of memory serves the former Columbus crew player. He has been absurdly good. Like one of the best non DPs in MLS. And he came back to the league. He's often been that left number eight in the diamond. And then the right number eight in the diamonds. Typically, Daniel Adelman, hard worker, covers ground moves well off the ball, not a particularly flashy player. And then Durkin as the base of the diamond as that number six, then you're back three. So again, they're spread really wide in the attack, but also really narrow in the attack. And that forces defenses into all these different questions. There are other ways, like I said, that they get to that diamond. Sometimes they'll keep a wing or wide on the right side. So not have that player be a part of the diamond. They'll have them stretch all the way to the to the sideline. And then they'll have Conrad Volum, who started on the sideline, come inside to be on the diamond. So they're just like a bl- They're a blender of a team to play against. And that's before you even get to the individual profiles. Like always talked about so far as macro stuff. Like macro tactical theory. And it works because the players understand it really well. And Dumas clearly and it's coaching staff have clearly done a good job of communicating these things to the players. There's a level of synergy and how they move into their different structures and move out of those structures as well. But then you have the actual talent, which has been unbelievably good and seemingly gotten even better in the summer window. Jeff, I know some people take macro technical theory and tactical theory in their junior year of college. Did you take a sophomore year? When was that for you? It was, it was like a freshman. We had to take geometry after writing. So it's like that is like fixed as a sophomore thing. So it was like one before the other. As long as I'm asking semi-nonsense questions, how did you like Joe's Portuguese pronunciation of Hafa? I call it too. Yeah, that was great. I felt like I was right there in Zobalo. It was great. One thing that I do really like though is like the Navarro edition that gave them sort of a focal point. And for so much of this season, St. Louis has been, I think of some of the players that Joe mentioned in the segment and then look at the rest of their squad. This isn't a team that's really doing what a lot of Emma less is doing right now, which is to say I think Emma less right now is back to chasing stars in a way that it hasn't really been in like a decade. And so a lot of teams are trying to get a player who is very marketable or a player who is going to move the needle in terms of shirt sales, in terms of viewership, these sorts of things. I think that St. Louis right now has a collective and part of this is also the byproduct of a CSO being in their first year. And taking over someone else's roster and gradually trying to turn it into something else. But I think that when you have that combination of a squad that is still trying to figure out what its new identity will be compared to what it was under the predecessor, coupled with a new coach who is young has great ambitious ideas that haven't been seen before. But also hasn't done this job full time like he did it a few times with the wooden spoon area of see since an ad on an interim basis, right. But now he finally has an opportunity to be the guy and to lead with his vision. And so I think that this team actually thrives because it's kind of anonymous. I think that this thrives really well because there are a lot of selfless players who are willing to do selfless things off the ball on the ball with decoy runs. And I think it just works incredibly well. They keep with a lot of the wolf renouncy principles of sort of tight spaces, not necessarily just like a cross line so that you can pass sideways, but also players dropping in as Joe is alluding to having the single pivot means that the defensive line has someone that they can advance to as a safe outlet with him. Christopher can usually having that peace of mind of option right option left option alternatives, right. But I think that this does work very well because this is very much playing for the collective rather than playing as individuals. And I think that that makes them very difficult in the narrow when I'm a less is getting more and more individualistic. Yeah, I mean the talent addition has has only enabled them to do more of what they were already doing and to do it better. Really, I mean, I don't think whole set is an upgrade over hotel, but I do think he fits really well in this number 10 role in the diamond and can also play as a number eight because I don't know if you guys remember what when he first signed. We're sort of looking at his profile and he's played some as a 10 some as an 8 some as a winger sort of a weird option to go out and spend a D.P. spot on. Well, not when St. Louis play like shuttling their players through those different roles and not when they encourage so many clever offball runs and not when they go out and sign half a Navarro to be their number nine. And he's a player that thrives at dropping in so having a more of a runner as a 10 than a pure like Lucho Acosta drop deep chance creator kind of number 10. It makes perfect sense and Navarro. He's a headliner, right? I mean, he is he's the best player on this team. He's unbelievably good at basically everything that you could want from a number nine. And we talked about that when he was moving from Colorado St. Louis. It's a brilliant addition because he's a phenomenal player who was constantly underrated in Colorado. But what he allows them to do is is do even more flexible stuff not not just with how they get into different shapes, but also who you'll end to make him put on the field. We've seen several times since Navarro showed up in the summer. Navarro and Simon Betcher who was getting red hot before Navarro showed up playing together and that doesn't have to break the structure right nowhere in this three diamond three. Did I talk about a front two because that's not really how St. Louis play even when they have two nines in the field. They can play with Betcher as the line leader. He'll be the true number nine. And Navarro can drop in to be the point of the diamond to be the number 10 in the diamond because he is unbelievably good at all of the on ball stuff that you would want from a member that is leading the diamond. Maybe he's not quite as fluid in that role as some other players could be. But it gives St. Louis depth and we're talking about them making the US Open Cup final and qualifying for that and going through the process to get there. We're talking about them being this good in every single game and MLS play with the last 16 games and having a chance to set a record. You need to have options to play in different spots and that St. Louis can get those options can cycle through them without having to sacrifice their tactical identity. It's only allowed them to get even better at all that stuff. So I think the fact that Corey Ray and co have built the roster like this that is as flexible as it is that leads into your own damage system, which is as flexible as it is. But they've done that when before Corey Ray showed up the front office was handing out DP contracts that he didn't even get a chance to look at when you think about Roman Burke getting signed to a DP deal literally before Ray is even announced as the new CSO. I'm not saying that's the worst decision in the world, but but Ray hasn't had every choice available to him. He hasn't had every option available to him and that he's built a squad that is as effective as St. Louis had been in 2026. And that's that's like executive of the year stuff right there, frankly. How does Burke fit into the style or does he fit? Was that a smart a smart decision in respect? Really good shots after still Roman Burke, like we're still one of the better goalkeepers in Major League soccer and his distribution is phenomenal. And so that gives St. Louis options when they build because they do try to build from the back even against high pressure. It basically gives them a back four because you can plug Burke into the three center back line and that helps them overload in different areas. So he I mean, Burke is a goalkeeper, I think almost every team in MLS would take outside of probably Nashville Austin and New England, maybe a couple of others. Well, absolutely one of the better numbers in that spot in the league and he fits what they're trying to do. So I think you could certainly do worse in that spot. Like I said, but St. Louis, again, like this is just a club that was sort of falling over themselves in just about every way before the New regime showed up. And there's been some nice cleans that's that's needed to happen from Corey Ray and you on to May and in the sporting staff. And they've just nailed every single assignment that's come their way. So Jeff, we've got us up in cup as Joe said, they're chasing this streak. They're obviously looking to maybe host some playoff games. Who do you think are there key players? Who can they not live without? I think that the midfield balance that they found with Durkin and Ed Omen is really crucial because I think that that's baseline stability. And those are young players who have been like really studying closely what they're supposed to do in this system and that helps make it sing. Navarro obviously is crucial. Yes, they did very well without him. But once you get to the playoffs, you do need a player that you really trust to just kind of scruff a goal out of nothing and he does offer that, right? And I think that he does have that sort of mentality, physicality and track record, frankly, even when you look at what he was doing with Colorado, getting them to the US open cups on the final and their own right. I think that that is a crucial player for them. What's working really well, though, is their minutes balance in the regular season is actually really good. Aside from a handful of players, you've got some centerbacks when you look at Polvara, Baumgartel, who are playing very regularly Durkin Ed Omen. But beyond that, a lot of players are under 1600 minutes through 26 games. So all this to say you're used to 67 minutes per game per player and rotating on. So I think that they are built very well to handle what could come. And I'm going to stop talking before Saint Louis fans say, why did you say that about any individual player who could be missable or anything like that. In terms of the streak to like four games from tying the record, right, Joe? Four games from setting three games from tying from setting. Okay, got it. So let's let's progress through the the scheduler Taylor. Would you like to to run the segment or would you like to chime in with how will Saint Louis do in the next three, four, five games? Once I've pulled up the schedule, I can run it. All right. So they are a way to the New York Red Bulls this coming weekend. What do we think there? When I like the chances of getting a result hall in the Medigone, I think helps a lot. Yeah. Log Alexie. I think that's how I'm supposed to pronounce it. They would be next see. I think that's a winnable at home. That's winnable. Yeah. And then Vancouver at home. That seems like it. What a word. Refoil. Yeah. For real. I'm torn. I think that could be an excellent game. First of all, I mean, those are the two teams in the West right now. I mean, Vancouver on top of the Western conference. Saint Louis of the hottest team. It may have been the soccer and they are rapidly sprinting up right into that echelon. I mean, we saw these teams play recently a couple of weekends ago. We saw Saint Louis go into Vancouver and take care of business against the White Cap. So we've been a really good team. But with a few more blips this season, they're just lost in the Canadian championship. So many finals and so they will not be in the final, which is a huge whiff for the club. There have been some down bits for Vancouver, but man, Saint Louis were amazing in that game. And just to pause very briefly on that, like I talked about the structure of that Saint Louis use. Vancouver in that game tried to press them and Vancouver play typically out of this 442 Thomas Miller and Brian White up top as the two. They to tweak their shape for this game because they're going against the back three. So they actually had Miller defend deeper in midfield. They moved the wingers up alongside Brian White to go and press 3v3 along the back line. And then Miller, Andreas Kubas and Loraz. I think it was with the three center mids in that game. And they were constantly outnumbered by Saint Louis's diamond structure. And so they were just getting pulled apart all the time. They tried to press man to man, which is really the only natural response. I think to how Saint Louis are playing you, they're going to press high man to man and defend in a man-oriented way. Or you're going to defend really deep and dare them to beat you, which a lot of ML teams just are very good at doing. We don't see a lot of that in this league. It tends to be more open and transitional. If you press the man to man, which is also what Toronto tried to do at times over this past weekend, they're lost three to one. Saint Louis's players are like effectively too good for that, unless you're a brilliant pressing team. I like to see the union go and do some of this maybe. But if you press the man to man, Matan's going to drop a shoulder and beat you. Navarro's going to drop a shoulder and beat you. Valum's going to make the perfect run of the perfect time and hold. I mean, they're just so difficult to press man to man because the players are brilliant. But if you don't press the man to man, they have numerical advantages or know how to access them and basically every part of the field. So there's just no natural defensive shape that matches up well against this three diamond three. Otherwise, we would see teams do it already, but they're uncomfortable defending like that. And then when you do press them in a more man-oriented way, they just beat you. Like they did it to Vancouver who are the class of MLS in so many ways. So that game, I think, is going to be a juicy one because they could tie the record in that game if they make it past rebels and galaxy. And that also, who knows by then, Saint Louis could be playing to actually top the Western conference. And I've home field advantage all the way through to MLS Cup, which would be ridiculous for them. I'm aware of the slight obviousness of asking this question given that they are about to play the US Open Cup final. But how likely do you all think silverware is for this team this season could be the Open Cup could be the playoffs. I find myself like consistently thinking about the Oakland days naturally with this one, just with like the money ball and the streak and then not winning anything in the playoffs or not making the deepest of runs, not making the World Series even that team. But it's still this this team that like were disparate parts put together that collectively performed well, very selfless team, had some like aging stars that had to do different roles, but found a way had some very key players as well in there and some like some all stars and the like. So it just it feels like this could be a team that sets that record, maybe wins the US Open Cup. And in any other season, that's a really good season. But with what they've been able to do, it feels like a deeper playoff run is also kind of a requirement. Yeah, and also with the state of the West and maybe we'll get into this in segment two. But the summer window changed a lot of teams compasses, I guess, in terms of priorities. I think that they are one of the two front runners in the West to make Emma less cup. I would say that they're a favorite to win the US Open Cup final as well. I know it's in Columbus, but I think that when you look at how the group and playing versus how St. Louis has been playing, couple with the fact it's a yo-on to make redemption game in a Corey, right? You don't really play for your CSOs pride. Like I every player I've spoken with when I when they list the reasons that they're motivating games it's never to make my CSO look good. I've never heard a single person say that yet. But, you know, notwithstanding, I think that they will be very intentional about rotations. Yeah, they'll be very intentional about player fitness. These sorts of things. And I would say that at least one trophy and they are one of the front runners to challenge for the other main one. That's huge. Better than 50%. I would say chances. For sure. Top tier favorites are I'm lost cup at this point. And probably still the team I would back in the Open Cup. Alright, well, we're back in St. Louis. We'll see who you all are backing and not backing in part two when we look at teams we are buying and selling back soon. Welcome back to the Total Soccer Show everybody. We're talking teams we like. Teams we don't like for whatever reason. Maybe that's too harsh of a way to put it. We'll find out Jeff Rooter who is a team that you are selling what they're buying. Excuse me, buying what they are doing. Possibly be a team that has one five straight games or something like that. Probably something like that. So one thing that I'm noticing and first of all this felt like a kind of chalky weekend of MLS results where it was a lot of like. You can kind of see how the hierarchy of power is going because you look at the score lines like oh that makes sense. A lot of these right. And so I use that to kind of start to say like where is my confidence. The other thing in terms of presumably we're buying MLS Cup hopefuls right at the stage of the season. And when we had this conversation last year Joe we both agree there were 13 teams. That we were pretty confident would win MLS Cup. There were five in the West and they were wrong about 12 of them. That's disappointing. We were more on about 12 but we were right about the one that eventually did. They were on the list. So we were really I mean it was a very generous thing. All of this to say this year I'm at like five. At this stage already that I look and I'm like yeah I think that they could win MLS Cup with a similar level of confidence that I had about nearly half of the league last year. And so why not Philly? Like truly at a certain point you have to look and say sometimes teams stars align at the right time. Sometimes teams get hot when the rest of the conference is cooling down. They have players who are doing things we've never seen before in MLS and they're just kind of lightning in the bottle sort of moments. And teams like Philadelphia generally will have these things sink up in one moment and then it'll take two years or three years or four years to find the next. And this feels like a team that actually does have some of the like soft power behind it of the team that reached MLS Cup in 2022 in a much younger and very different way of going about it. But when I'm looking at teams since the World Cup break. I mean points for game it's it's flawless is 2.6 right. But you look at the way that they're playing you look at the teams that they're able to beat the ways that they're able to get into games. You have veterans who don't want to be overshadowed by a 16 year old and a 16 year old who refuses to not do incredible stuff on the field. I think that you still have players who can be really good in supporting roles. They're the most direct attacking team in MLS since the World Cup break. I think that that definitely does matter. I think that when you look at you know the shots that they're able to get off this was always a big issue of theirs in underpass coaches where they would just struggle to turn build up into good looks. Right now they're doing that pretty effortlessly it should be said. So honestly why not they found a way to tilt the field finally. This is something the Philadelphia is often struggled to do usually the team that's kind of against it. They've had a 60% feel till since the World Cup. They're controlling games in a way that they haven't done before. The East looks malleable to a degree right not not fully. But I think at this point like Philly has to be considered a team not just a pro of first round surprise but a team that could actually reach MLS Cup. I totally agree Jeff I want to ask and I think you got to it a little bit there but maybe just to flush it out a little bit more. What separates this Philadelphia union team from ones in the past that we've argued about on the show like can their approach to playing soccer win MLS Cup? And I think yes you've maybe been a little bit closer to the other side of times but I do agree there are some different things about this union team. What is that for you that makes them a real contender in a way that past versions haven't been? Yeah I think a lot of it again is just that the control games I think in the past it's looked a lot more variable. To what the opponent was affording them and looked a lot more. I mean Geagan Pressy yes but it was also like very specifically trying to. It wasn't Red Bull style. It wasn't Sandra Swartz if you complete or garage strober if you compete a class I'm proud of you but most of the time just hope that that direction and we'll see what happens. Like this started to happen under car now last year but you really have seen it more since he was dismissed and Richter stepped into the role. The disparity between possession and field tilt I think really matters and this is like a really good case study for people who are trying to like wrap their head around why field tilt is important. It's most basically a possession metric but only looking at attacking touches attacking third touches so once you clear into the attacking third then we care about it. If you're just dawdling in the midfield line remove those touches from the plot and what this shows you is who is controlling the initiative of a game more. Now if a team scores two goals early they're going to sit back and so their field tilt might be really bad but Philadelphia at this point they are aggressive. They're young they're pushing they're they're searching for goals they're trying to entertain in a way that we haven't seen before. And so they're leaving less chance I guess is what I would say they're leaving less to the opponent to dictate the tempo of proceedings. They are much more willing to do that and I think that when you couple it in you look at the underlying numbers even more because of how direct they are attacking. That is something that's pretty new for them and a lot of this is the capital of an effect that they're just very good at attacking and transition at playmaking and catching opponents on their back foot and on a wears. They're getting shots off at a higher rate than they have at any point in the last four years their shots are coming in closer to goal at any point than they have in the last four years. Like these are just things that I think that really good soccer teams that want to control their destiny have to do. And I think that you see it a lot when you talk about your Vancouver St. Louis is your Nazi era crew whatever but Philadelphia is finally willing to take more of that initiative than it has been in the past under Ryan Richter and I think that that has been a very successful formula for them. Totally agree. I echo all those things even and I was even bullish before about how Philly style could position them to win trophies. And so for them to have gotten better and they have iterated. I think that's exactly the point that you're making. I don't think that's necessarily intentional. I think it is come to them maybe rather than the other way around. Though I don't know for sure. I just think it's a funny observation but I agree with you completely. It's that they have more clever possession players than they did before and all this guys come from the academy. So maybe maybe they will actually give you and got good players who are good at doing stuff on the ball and they got better. Right. Yeah. Someone should have told them this. Like a thesis for your point from before for sure. Kevin Sullivan and Frankie Westfield. I mean, Sullivan mostly right. But but those two guys feel progressive passing is bananas. So when you look at just raw progressive passes played in MLS this year. Here's your list. Lionel Messi. No, it's Carlos Hill. Walking Pereira. Lionel Messi. Frankie Westfield. Wow. Wow. That's nuts. That's amazing. Which one of these is not like the other, right? That's the question. But it's like this. It's an incredible skill. It really is. And the US needs it by the way. Not great. I totally agree with that. I think this is the best in possession fullback pairing that you need to have ever had. I mean, it's one of the best I think that MLS has ever had. And that they can also do a lot of the North South vertical car crash stuff. Really helps. Then you have Kevin Sullivan who can play making a way that you haven't had before. And oh, by the way, Queen Sullivan's back. And maybe he could have been the difference for a Philly team towards the end of last season. But he tears as ACL late in the year. He's back. I would be surprised if he wasn't a starter. Come play off time in the games. It really matter for this Philly team. Maybe not against every team. But in in ones that Philly are going to need a little bit of of chance creation. I think he can do some of that stuff. I agree. I think the personnel is better suited for it. And I think Philly are red hot for a reason right now. Totally. Joe. What team are you buying? And then I'll give it to Jeff to undermine the points and debate against it. Not really. Not really. I think there's lots of teams worth buying that are obvious, right? And so I'm trying to go a little bit under the radar. I thought about San Jose for this because they were brutal for a huge chunk of the summer. But they've stabilized now. Three straight results. I believe two wins. And then they drew two two against LAFC. Come back in that game late. Very weird game. Probably shouldn't have gotten a result there. But they have stabilized. I think Bruce Arena has found some answers here. And Angus Gunn is no longer metaphorically throwing the ball into the back of his own net. So there. There. There has been improvement there. And I think San Jose, if they're fully healthy at round one of the postseason, they could go and win MLS Cup. And I wouldn't be shocked about that. So they're an honorable mention for me. I will go with the Colorado Rapids who I don't think have MLS Cup potential. Man, they might. We talked about Morgan Whitaker a little bit at the end of last week's show. The $10.7 million transfer that they signed from Middlesboro. He is the truth. He is unbelievably good. I put this out on social media. But the end of the MLS transfer window kind of ended more with a whimper than with a bang, right? I mean, Colorado. Excuse me. Chicago didn't go and make a splash. LAFC didn't make a splash. It just wasn't super splashy. But man, some of the under a little bit more under the radar moves. It's weird that we're in an area of MLS that we can say that almost $11 million transfer is under the radar move. But Morgan Whitaker to the rapids kind of was. They have delivered Andre Luis and Kansas City Whitaker and Colorado. Whitaker was the best player on the field in the rapids three through the job with Seattle. They blew that should have been three points ended up being one. There are still problems for Colorado. They just got bounced by St. Louis and the U.S. Open Cup semi finals last week as well. It was sort of a rough week for the rapids. But as bad as it is to taste that medicine and as unpleasant of a taste as it has. Morgan Whitaker looks good enough to make you forget about it all. Honestly, if you're a rapids fan, he looks like he could be a best fellow in player every season that he's in this league. And I know he was spotty at times during his spell in England. Had some down moments, had some up moments. So maybe there will be some of that in MLS as well. The dude is running the show in his first league start for the Colorado rapids. He is playing not on the right wing, which is where he made his first couple of runs for the rapids. He was playing as a second forward in this game against Seattle. And he was still the best player on the field. Like I don't think that's his best spot. I don't really think that's where Wells wants to use him. But for some major reasons, I think that's why he ends up inside. And his left foot, the passes that he plays, his ability 1v1, his understanding of movement in the box, his off ball runs to arrive and then is finishing. I mean, the goals he scores in this game are quality goals. Like one of them is a classic kind of almost number 9's goal, drifting it from the weak side to finish, I believe first time. And then the second goal, he flicks the ball up to himself and then bangs it into the back of the net from inside the 18. I mean, he is just stunting on the sounders, which is exactly what he did in his first MLS appearance, which is exactly what he did for portion. I have all the minutes we've seen from him have been whole wow, this guy is special. And he really looks special. If you can couple that with some of the other additions that the rapids made in the summer, with the fact that Matt Wells already had this team playing pretty good ball, at least it's different. And I think it's given them something that other teams struggle to match at times. Yeah, this is a team that I could see win in a series because Whitaker is that good in the pieces around him or at least good enough for them to not not trip. So I think they're going to make the playoffs and they're going to be a tough out for the first round as well. Jeff, anything you'd like to quibble with, disagree with? Are you on board for Colorado? Good teams that are comfortable with having the ball and have good players who can do unpredictable things tend to do well. It makes a lot of sense. I think that they will be a very difficult team to be matched up against what I do agree with Joe on as well as the ceiling of this. And I think part of this is just it's still a year one under Matt Wells. It's one of those where like the World Cup break kind of like makes it feel like he's been here for four years now. Like they'd still very much is new ideology that the summer additions are working out. They did lose their star striker, right? And so there's just some changes of sequences that are still being sorted out, right? Like Joe said, like they're not the finish article. They're not perfect at this stuff yet. But yeah, I think that there will be a very difficult matchup, especially if they can, you know, I'm just trying to check the standings again, but especially if they can kind of squeak their way up and really stick around a little bit higher. They're in seventh right now. They're five points behind LAFC with the game in hand. It games left. So there's plenty of time to close that gap. San Jose also right above. If they can get to five six and they're getting a team like Houston or Dallas or San Jose in the first round, I think that they will be a very, very difficult matchup. Yeah, agreed. What was that line again? Good teams that are comfortable with the ball and have players that can do unpredictable things. Yeah. All right. That's about right. Did you give me Orlando City with that in mind? I like that. Oh, baby. Go. I like that. Same more. I mean, that's that that was my team. I wanted to bring to the conversation. Obviously, you all know much, much, much, much, much, much more than I do about Major League Soccer and more than I ever will. But I think anything that has answered on Griezmann. I think he plays an unpredictable role. I think that's where he thrives. I think that's what he likes to do and be. And I think he just makes that team pretend like have the potential to beat anybody when they are up for it, when he is playing. And then they've got other talented players around him. We've talked about Justin Ellis on the show. Obviously, they have players that I think could still be really interesting. Both this season and the sprint season and beyond. There'll DK is is probably the name in that in that regard for me, just mostly because I want more number nine options for the US. But they just seemed like a team that like didn't really have that like anchor in a positive way, like a creative anchor, I guess. And didn't really have like that like that player that I think could elevate them. And I think whereas there's other teams that do that through individual effort or like team sacrifice. It feels like Orlando have really enjoyed having Antoine Griezmann come in and just make that team better. Even if he's only following one player on Instagram, still Joe is that correct? I haven't checked in the last month or so, but he does follow Justin Ellis on Instagram as of last investigation. So like, and I still, I don't know, maybe it's misguided. I still have like faith in Maxime Krippo to like come the playoffs, come at the hour, come with the man, come with the maybe a saver too. And I just, I think this team could be a difficult team. Like in the right scenario. And I think that's what always makes the playoffs fun and unpredictable. So with that in mind, I am buying what Orlando City is. Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's a, I'll go Jeff, you go. He does follow Justin Ellis, is that the only one we knew about? Yes, that's the one that we can know about the rest, I believe he has not followed, which I'm viewing more as a statement of, of I'm backing Justin Ellis. And I'm not a fan of my teammates, personally. Doesn't follow that many people on Instagram. No, no. From last, last memory, I mean, there's not a player in MLS besides Messi. That's as important to his team as Antoine Griezmann is to Orlando. And that's because Griezmann is the best player in MLS outside of Lino Messi. I firmly believe that he has been just that good since showing up from Atlético Madrid and getting to actually register the second half of the season. So yeah, when he's around, there are a team that can win any game. When he's not, I think we saw this against New England over the weekend, that 42 win for New England. They don't have quite as much use in the attack, even though there are game changers. I think Ellis is a game changer. Oh, hey, that and passable chart are game changers. But Griezmann's different. They don't have that same level that they can hit and their defense is still poopy. Like they, they are incredibly vulnerable in transition. Peyton Miller just undressed them multiple times in behind for both of his goals. The young now USMT left sideer. So I do have concerns about that. But again, if Griezmann's around, I'm 100% agree with you Taylor. I think this is a team that if you told me like just wipe my memory. Like let's live three months, wipe my memory. We're on MLS Cup day and you tell me Orlando City are playing in it. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not surprised. All right. I'm glad that neither one of you was like terrible choice. I'm selling them immediately. But Joe, who, who are you selling then? Who's the team that maybe is in the playoff spots that you are less convinced by? Yeah, there's a lot of teams that are in the playoff spots that are not that convinced by welcome MLS baby 60% Can we just, can we just time out? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. What happened? Like it just suddenly, we went to the World Cup break. There were a lot of teams we were really confident in. The ideology was sound you're saying Jose is refiring. And we got back and it settled in at this point. And I don't know if it's teams really getting ready for the calendar change or something like that. If there, if everyone's actually all in on the sprint season and this final like full season MLS Cup on this calendar is for suckers, I don't know what it is. But like so many teams feel like they are a less serious threat right now and have fallen off in a big way in MLS. And there is a like really bloated mushy middle to this league right now. This week, every team is looking more similar again. Again, this is happening like a decade ago. Two teams are just not really finding disparate ways to play from each other. It's very homogenous right now and it's frustrating for excesses like these. All right. I think there's probably four or five teams in each conference in the playoff field that I think could win a MLS Cup. I don't think it's as broad as the 13 pool that Jeffy referenced earlier in the last year that we talked about at some point in the year. I will, I will not go to the wild card spots. I think the wild card spots in both conferences. So right now it's Cincinnati and Red Bulls 98 in the east. I don't think there's any way that's happening. Portland Galaxy in the West. Not for me, Clive. Like just not even close. So I will go higher than that. And I will give an honorable mention to Chicago who've been a nose dive over the last seven years or so. I don't know if we're going to get to them more later or not, not totally sure. But I'll just mention them here. They've got problems. I will say instead the Houston Dynamo who are second in the Western conference. I just don't think they're quite well rounded enough to be a team that we think about seriously for this. The Dynamo are good at some things. Like very, very good at some things. Defensively they're excellent. Their Sunday back plays become very good. They are deeper defensively now than they were at the start of the season. I think the front office has done a lot of good stuff in that way. They've nailed some of the signings there. Absolutely. But I just don't buy the attack. Duncan McGuire is coming in for Orlando City. Hasn't been a regular starter. Hasn't scored a single goal for the Houston Dynamo. That's a problem. Lyle Foster still isn't embedded into this team. We're probably now at the stage of the season where it's a little too late for him to bed in a way that's going to see him optimize, come playoff time. And the Dynamo are going to make the playoffs. There's no doubt about that. But I don't know that you can survive in this era of MLS with defending really well and gear me as sort of your, your whole ML. Maybe Jack McGlin gives you a little bit of set piece magic. That's one thing we didn't mention with the union by the way that's made them different from before. They've the best set piece throughout MLS is ever seen in Neil Pierre, who's just unplayable in those moments. The Dynamo don't have their version of that anymore, which was Jack McGlin from the set piece. Take your spot. Not from the score spot in the box. That's changed. So I just think they got a little bit worse in the summer window. And that's okay. But I think that's the reality for them. And I just don't know that they've done enough in all phases of the game for me to be a team. For me to think of them as a team that can seriously overcome a broad variety of obstacles in the postseason. So I will be selling the Dynamo even with respect for what they built and thinking that they actually have a pretty good foundation for what they might be able to build in 2027 and beyond. All right. So that's the team second in the West in a decent run of form. Jeff, that's a pretty hot take. That's a pretty bold take from Joe. Can you outbowl him with your team that you are selling for whatever reason? I tried, guys. I really tried to pick someone else. I tried so hard, but I had the same issues as Joe where I was like, I just don't even believe in these teams enough to think this value in selling them. So I'm seeing way too many people just saying, enter Miami is going to win. I'm a less cop. And I'm really sick of it. And I'm sorry, guys. I'm selling in her Miami at this point. Of course, I trust Leonardo Messi. Of course, he's going to win MVP. Of course, he is the best player in the league. The season, the form he's in right now is still better than what we've seen any other player do in any individual season with like two or three exceptions. You could maybe name it's like, here's Javinco in the treble, here's Carlos Vela. And like, you could probably pick your favorite Robbie Key in season. And I'll just kind of nod and say, yeah, okay, he was class wasn't he? All of that said, I have no faith in the team around him at this point. I have so much less faith in how winter Miami is constructed at present as a squad. And I have even less faith in how their coach undercutting themselves. Then I had had at any other point in this entire stretch. You can't really overstate how chaotic their season has been with all of the coaching changes that they have gone through with players coming and going. With the style of play morphing with such regularity. And so when you really try to just look again at the data, how they've been playing, especially since the World Cup. Because I think that this is a more reflective sample than what happened before that, because that's the fitness players are going to be in, right? We talked about this last week. They are, it is impossible for them to stop a counter attack right now. They are so, so porous in transition. And teams that they will be coming up against your Nashville's, your Orlando's, your Philadelphia's. They thrive in these sequences. It is so easy to find a game model that's going to be working against this version of Inter Miami. But it goes even deeper than that. I mean, you look at decision making. You know, they don't really lock into a game. If an opponent slows Luis Suarez off, and it's a lot difficult. Because Lino Messi isn't just like just one guy who's dribbling around. He's not like an Allen Iverson isolation kind of guy, right? He wants to have interplay. He wants teammates that he trusts to do these giving goes. And they never replace Jordi Elba. And I think that that was just such a crucial connection for him to have, where he can switch play and create that space that he needs to drift. And so once teams start to kind of glom the field down when they're defending, but be really proactive or just confident in possession and try to keep over half of the time of the ball, it does neutralize his threat in a way that is sustainable and repicable. I'm not saying that this is a team that's going to lose in round one, like they did in 2024. But they are regressing to a lot of their traits in that 2024 team, where they are not taking the initiative in the same way that they were taking it under Javier Maserano. They aren't trying to tilt the field to go back to what we were talking to before. Right now it's about a 50-50 proposition for them since the World Cup, whether or not they're actually going to have the greater share of attacking touches. When you have the greatest attacking player in the history of the sport, you want as many attacking touches as possible. And this team is failing at getting the ball in those areas as often as they need to maximize the threat that they have. Look, these final like games are crucial. Like this is going to be the make-or-break stretch. And if they find a game model that works for them, if they find a midfield combination that keeps the ball in that attacking third, they can do well. But right now I do see like a final boss for them. And it's probably the team that it wears yellow and has had their number for about a year now. And it's finally figured it out after being kind of the other team that they be that year. I think that Miami just is up against it. And I think that they're kind of out of time to fix it. Yeah, it's a good shout, Jeff. And a defendable one as well. This is a version of Miami that is just not as good as the one that we saw last season. And I don't think it's too difficult to figure out why. We're seeing Casimiro have to deputize at center back for them, because they've been just so injured in that part of the field. Mikael has not been the signing that they needed him to be, because he hasn't been available as much as they needed him to be. So he's playing center back, which is not playing to his strengths and not playing to Miami. He's strengths really, but it's a necessity. They traded no Allen to Chicago, which I understand for allocation money reasons. I think that's how they sustain their success in a lot of ways. But but now the result is Sergio Regulon is as injured as anybody in this league constantly. Though he is working his way back. Who could have seen the dead playing over the weekend, right? Who could have seen that coming? So they have to have him to play Kaiseda, who's a center back at left back. And so they're not getting any real attacking thrust from the outside backs, which was not the case for them last season. They were getting that. And the attack is incredibly injured as well, where I end day. So that he those guys aren't aren't able to play. Like we're not seeing any depth in behind. It's always Suarez, Bertorame, and Messi. No one's making those those vertical runs. And so the way that Miami slashed their way through the postseason field last year was with I end day. And so that he making those vertical runs and Messi playing as a false nine and going and controlling every single thing on the field. That it's just a different team like the midfield's not as good, because Kassamera can't play there and Kassamera was supposed to elevate the midfield. The backline's not as good because the profiles and now that's outside back spots and through the middle aren't right or are optimal for them. And the attack's not as good because it doesn't play to Messi strength in the same way. So they're worse in literally every line of the field. And then oh, by the way, Dane St. Clair has been benched for long portions of the season. He's back, but can you trust him? And I don't know. Yeah. Oh, that said, I still think Miami are going to win a lost cup. I just can't. Just because of vibes in Miami and Messi and stuff. Yeah. And I'm probably wrong. Right? I mean, numbers, numbers say that I'm wrong. That's how sports work. But I still, I can't shake the idea that they're going to get just enough in the backline back to move Kassamera back into the midfield. They might get Region back to go and be healthy for the postseason run and nothing else. And I didn't give they get those two things, even with the attack not where it was and last season. And I don't think where they would want it to be. I just still think that this team has enough. I think they've got enough juice. I will say Jeff, I love your point about national being the final boss because this national team is super legit. They're a very, very good team. And they've taken care of business against Miami before. So it's going to be hard for them. I don't feel nearly as confident about Miami this season as it did last season going into the playoffs. No doubt about that. I just can't. I can't bring myself to do it. I know we saw it in 24. I just can't do it. So here's the other thing that I will say about that is, yes, they won the Compionist Cup. And that was like a little bit of a blip in this stretch here. That's kind of. Yeah. They were great. It was a good one off, right? They have drawn each of their last four games in MLS at home against Atlanta, away at Chicago. Like you said, a little listless at home against Nashville, gulp for the future and then at home against San Diego. Messi started all four of those games. They are the third team in MLS to have already accrued 10 draws in the season. The other two, Toronto FC, DC United, playing for the draw is not like this. This is something that we've dinged Dean Smith for in the past, right? And we were just like, eventually, like, those become wins and losses once you get to elimination games. And I just don't trust that this team has enough to flip the biggest of those games that they would draw right now into wins in two months. There we are. Well, you all have covered a lot of ground. I'll just add that I'm selling Montreal. I don't think they're going to make a room. I'm going to take that deep run. The one that, like, I have no reason for saying this other than just, like, I don't think they're going to make a room. But the one that, like, I have no reason for saying this other than just, like, I am sort of perpetually not convinced by them is FC Dallas, who I think are in the best form in the West. So it's a controversial take. Sure. Yeah, I don't know. It's Dallas. Maybe that's the Washington fan and me never being able to root for any Dallas franchise. But I also, I don't know. I just am always less convinced by them. And I guess you stood to some extent. So maybe it is just a Texas thing. Apologies to Austin who also, I think, aren't going to make a deep run of the playoffs on that note. Let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll talk about this past weekend and some standout performances. Welcome back to the Total Sox show everybody. Let's talk Nashville for a moment. They were referenced earlier as a team in yellow that could cause Miami problems. They'll be there in the postseason, Joe. So could very well be springing some problems in the very near future. Yeah, first and less team to clinch a postseason spot this year. They've got, I mean, more than just a hand on the shield of this point. They are 11 points clear at the top of a Eastern conference. They are a really, really, really good team. Now, they've done a lot of things right this season. The thing that continues to impress me about them is just how fluid and connected they are in possession. Like they do almost everything well, Nashville. So you could look at this in a lot of different ways. But again, Chicago, that arena win on Saturday. The way that they're right side in particular moves and their changes were also now starting to see them on the left side with sod and re-baker whiteing. Like players, the players just understand each other so well. They understand the movements of the players around them. They understand the general structure and have like sort of this police system about them when they play. But the work that Andy Nahar and Espanosa and Yazbek are doing on that right side. Really, I don't think we've seen that level of coordination for many team and MLS this year outside of St. Louis. And that's why the final two coaches on my coach of the year decision got to pick one list. Are going to be BJ Callahan and Johan to me. And I honestly don't know who I'm going to pick. I probably should pick BJ Callahan. But man, let's wait eight more games. You're right. I don't need to sweat it right now. Thank you, Jeff. I'll lower my heart rate about that. But those guys understand the right side are so national understanding each other so well. And you couple the clear tactical understanding that this team has with the roster build. Which I mean, I think sometimes I fall into this trap. I want to be for others. I fall into this trap of thinking, okay, Mike Jacobs was in charge of national and Gary Smith was around. Those teams kind of sucked the joy of soccer out of me. And didn't accomplish as much as they would have liked. Gary Smith got the axe. Now BJ Callahan comes in. Oh, it's all BJ Callahan. And that's why they're succeeding. But that flies into the face. Even though I do feel that way sometimes. That flies into the face of my point about how players matter most. And the reality is, national have recruited and added a bunch of good players. And it's not just Mike Jacobs that should get credit for that as a CSO for this team. It's the rest of the recruitment staff of the front office. It's also BJ Callahan. I'm sure Espinoza watching national last year. That made him want to join this version of national more than it would have. Like Gary Smith version of national. So there's credit to go around. But the front office is truly done. A tremendous job of finding undervalued young players, of finding high quality players from abroad that they can go and add to this team. And the result is a team that's going to win the shield. And a team that will be amongst the favorites to win MLS Cup because they're just that good. I mean, the way they dismantled Chicago over the weekend was as bleak as Chicago have been. And maybe it's a bit hyperbolic. It's mediocre as Chicago have been over the last seven games or so. National make them look bleak. And that really hasn't been true for the fire. So super impressive. They'll be deserves shield winners. They'll be a very defensible MLS Cup pick because they are just a juggernaut right now. The one thing to check is that when you look at their before and after World Cup splits, they couldn't stop putting shots on target before the World Cup. And they have really struggled with a shot accuracy. When you look like month to month, they were averaging on target rates between 38 and 57% in the first four months of the season, counting that you play one game in February. So that's a month, right? And then when you look at July and onward, they have an exceeded 38% and they've been 27% accuracy in September and 24% in July. So the question is like, can they get Sam Serge and Honeymook down in the rest? Like actually placing their shots on goal more often. And if they do, then like really good luck. Anyone else facing them in the playoffs because when this team is playing with confidence, there is nobody who can be more like lethal in attack than a team with the front three of Espinosa and Serge and Mukter. So we're going to wait eight more games, Joe. Here's my scenarios for you. Eight games from now. Nashville, we in every single game. But your friends at St. Louis do the same and set that streak record at the same time. Who's your coach of the year? The other word, man. Have some mercy. This is good. I don't know. I honestly haven't thought about it enough. I think coach of the year is such a difficult award to think about because, I mean, how do you evaluate a coach? It's so much more complicated than evaluating an MVP. I mean, how much do you factor in team success and trophies into the equation? Like that's something I haven't fully figured out yet. I will probably vote for BJ Callahan. I probably will because I think that's the path of least resistance. But it is. I can't stop thinking about this. How many MLS teams do you guys think there are that feel like fools for not hiring y'all into me? How many North American soccer clubs do you think there are that feel like an absolute warrant? Do you think John Thornton's kicking himself? Oh, yeah. I mean, hiring y'all on demand. I sure do. I sure do. Not to be pedantic here. But that requires front offices to accept, like, mistakes made right and not just point fingers elsewhere. They don't have to do it perfectly, but deep inside, in private moments, how many are thinking about this? It should be everybody that had a job opening, man. I'll tell you that much. It should be. So, yeah. Demay will deserve it. I don't think I win it. And I'm not sure I'll vote for him. The only thing I will say is that historically coach of the year goes to the coach whose team overperformed most people's pursues and expectations. And it's mostly an apology for not believing a new sooner. And so I think that I have found that all three sections. So again, like, listeners, like, there's three groups that vote on this, right? There is media, schmucks like us. There is players and there are team personnel, right? So that's like your CSOs and your whatever. All three voting blocks tend to like the, wow, what a surprise season out of nowhere doing stuff we didn't see coming. Rather than the, wow, you won the shield. Because otherwise, like, I think that's most what it is. People maybe just want to feel clever that they're not just handing it to the shield winner every year. But I think Demay's got a great case. He's got, he's got a narrative case. PJ Callahan does too, though. And so I think that that helps. This isn't quite like a, I don't know, Bruce Arena said one another supporter shield. And people don't want to give a trophy or Brian Schmetzer finished second in the West again, right? Stuff like that. Like, those coaches seldom win it. And I don't think either of these candidates really fit that mold. And since we're doing the coach of the year thing now, I'll just toss Mocha, which is name end, which I've done before. I think he's in that next year down. But I think he's done a tremendous job in New England. He's done some of the PJ Callahan has also done, which is develop young players. And that is so important to winning an MLS because if you can have a young cheap core of players, young and domestic equals sheep, right? That's why we talk about needing to have like this domestic spine to your team because it means that you've developed them and probably have several years of control over them to the point where you don't have to pay them all that much money. Mitchell Rich is helping to build that foundation. Chris Tierney, first year CSO has done a tremendous job there as well identifying talent. But the thing that maybe holds me back from Mitchell Rich being in this conversation, even though the revs have vastly overperformed my expectations for them. And I think most people's expectations is, I think that they just don't do it quite as well. They just don't do it quite as much, tactically interesting stuff. And I don't know that that really should matter. But to me it matters a little bit. And I think they are just not quite as dominant of a team as the others that we've kind of entered into this conversation. But a Mitchell Rich deserves some shout in. I assume he'll get some votes as well. It's going to be a scandal when Dome wins Coach of the Year after a right in campaign splits the vote between BJ Callahan and patches of who a hand. Let's make that happen, folks. Let's see what we can do. I like it. For now, we've got a national leading the race Vancouver behind them, eight points behind, but did get the win this weekend, Joe. So Vancouver on the rebound. They are. They are on the rebound. And there's still a team that I really back, even though I referenced it earlier, there've been, there've been some blips for them throughout this season, Canadian Championship, ConquerCalf Champions play, selling burlter. I mean, getting waxed by St. Louis at BC place. There have been some lows. I mean, there were some lows last year too. I'm thinking about the ConquerCalf Champions Cup final and MLS Cup. But they did enough to get there. And Vancouver have been maybe just a shade off of that this year. But they, they stomped all over Salt Lake in this game. I mean, they were so clearly the better team. Salt Lake, I think, are scrambling for answers right now in a way that they just can't, can't seem to resolve. The thing that maybe impresses me most about Vancouver is just how many different attacking options they have. They continue to get deeper and deeper and deeper in those areas. You don't just have Thomas Mueller and Brian White. You don't just have Bruno Kassato, who is. He's talked a lot about underrated players. I guess it's easy to be underrated when there's still not that much MLS coverage, MLS coverage out there. But Bruno Kassato is tremendous. And if he can add just a tiny bit to his game, he's going to be playing the Champions League. I will add Yadda Lee Diabi, who is the 26 year old Ghanaian international winger, I believe, that they added from France over the summer window. First MLS start to go contributions. I mean, it's just, it's just plug and play stuff for Vancouver. Man, they just keep pulling these high level, like quality MLS contributing players, especially from France. And in some of the South America and plugging them into the lineup and those guys play. It just happens over and over and over again. We talked about St. Louis. Yeah, I love your point about how much they've rotated, except for the falls. Basically, it's center back. They've rotated everywhere. They've given everybody run. And Vancouver have done the same because they have the level of depth and quality that Sorensen can rotate without maximum, without compromising his talent level. And it's huge. And so that's the thing that continues to make me feel bullish about Vancouver, even though they fall in short. A little bit of where they would have wanted to be this season. They're still an unbelievably good team. The result shows that and they're still an unbelievably deep team in this game show that as well. One thing that really impressed me in this RSL performance against RSL rather is that, you know, I've been talking about how they've looked really lost in possession in certain parts of sequences without Sebastian Burholter because of how much ushering he did drifting side to side and stuff. And I think that there wasn't a natural sort of next midfield replacement to take that sort of bulk of possession and touches when you look at, like, Laura Zimbabwe, who started in this game. And what they did instead was the two top touch earners in this field, where they're fullbacks. It was Adir Combo and Tate Johnson. And it works like to a certain degree because I think that right now the zeitgeist of MLS is to kind of clog the center of the field and use the wide spaces to run free. But if you keep just getting the ball into wide spaces and then recirculate it, whatever eventually you bait the central area to be more open because opponents have to leave their stations. And that's where you're able to get more space for Brian White and Thomas Miller to score in the same game, right? And I think that that sort of stuff still boasts while Ryan Gold is still coming off the bench. Sometimes I think that's just fine. If they found the right sequences and VS for sorensen has had the right messages to keep him locked in. That is the most dangerous player to bring off the bench you could possibly have at this stage of the season. Yeah. I will just add on Ocampo Columbia International, Adir Ocampo for the first time. Um, he good. He's very, very good. Maybe not going to be around that much longer. He good. He very, very good. Getting better would be a sporting Kansas City. That would be the final theme we talk about. I got to say they're good. Uh, but tough week for that six goes for in their last two games. Five against, but we don't need to talk about that on the day of Louise. Hit in the ground running Joe. How are we feeling about SKC? Man, Andre Louise. Wow. I mean, if this is the kind of player that Kansas City are getting, it's probably worth the weight for those other DB spots. I mean, it's a false dichotomy. That's not a real situation. Um, I think Kansas City are kicking themselves for not having been able to do a little bit more in this summer window. But my word. I think that's the second time I've done that on this show. Louise is, is unbelievable. I mean, is that dude? Yeah. I'll do a little pat on the back for myself. I kind of talked about this before he showed up. Yeah. The tape. The tape wasn't lying. Cause I watched the tape and Louise looked, I mean, like an unbelievable athlete with technical ability to go in attacking transition, but also to be dangerous. One V one in a tight spot type to field. That's what he is. Like, I mean, it's not, I don't think we're overreacting because he's two most recent games. I think he's, he started three games and I'm a lesson memory serves Dallas, uh, LFC and Philadelphia. Those are, those are decent teams. Like even if we want to doubt Dallas and those credentials, um, and even if LAC have some obvious problems that they just can't seem to fix and don't apparently want to fix. Those are, those are all solid teams, like solid to go to very good teams. Louise has changed games for Kansas City against those teams. Sensi showed up his first goal in this match. Kansas City taking a three-nilly thank you, patulating in the second half, conceding four goals in nine minutes. Oops. His, his first goal in this game. Watch it. I mean, he just single, it's a solo goal. He just destroys the entire left side of Philadelphia cuts into the box and makes them pay. I mean, I, I don't think we have seen a player of his physical gifts with his attacking skill ever. Image really soccer. Now, it's not to say that he's the best player we've ever seen in MLS. He's not, uh, he is, he's out of control a little too much. I think to be a truly like transcendent player in a European league. But his physical profile is perfect for a relatively open MLS. We're already seeing that against good teams. And he can deliver in the final third. I mean, I think that the goals are going to cool off a little bit. I still think he can do more to find better chances. But also, this point of Kansas City team is not very good. And so that he's wrestled them. I, I do think it's him. Like he's wrestling them into not no longer embarrassing territory. Like that, that's where we're getting. Not to good territory. But he has changed so much right out of the gates for Kansas City. I, I am wildly impressed with him as a player. And I think Kansas City fans were as bleak as this year has been. For his disappointing as the end of the summer window was. This is as good of a reason for optimism as almost any team in MLS has literally ever had in the league's 30 years of existence. He is unbelievable. Is he enough to get them out of the one spoon race, such as it is? No, I mean, they'll be in the race the whole rest of the way. Maybe Montreal will come and take it for them. Kansas City never won the wooden spoon. They would very much like to continue that. They're in 18 points right now. Montreal are on 26. I can't see if a game in hand. Yeah, I will bet that Louise is enough. 21, aren't they? Oh, sorry, 21. Yes. That's what I meant to say. And I'm not reading or talking aloud, which is unfortunate for my profession. Um, I think Kansas City will, will not win the wooden spoon. Yes. All right. Atlanta Columbus. No. I think Montreal, Montreal for sure. What do you mean, Joe? How are they doing in the last five games? Just tell me that they've got, they've certainly got at least a point in those last five games. Montreal, right? Uh, no, no, they have it. And that's not like I was leading question, but I didn't know the answer. But you're right. They have not. As case, you have the one win. There you go. Uh, Andre Louise could be the difference maker for now. Jennifer, you've been a difference maker in terms of me having a full heart right now. So thank you, Jeff, for that and for everything else. Thanks for having me back. Joe Lowry. Thank you for your knowledge, for your enthusiasm for the Andre Louise hype and for the, uh, the, the self back batting. Definitely deserved. Hey, you know what? What's in a while? What's in a while, man? Not often usually wrong, but on occasion, you know, even a blind scroll, right? Thanks, guys. This was fun. Uh, listeners, thank you all so much, YouTube viewers. Thank you all so much and I apologies. I apologize for this whole situation for now. Thank you all again for listening. For watching. We'll talk to you again very soon. Bye.