🎙️ Football Social Daily •September 29, 2026 •⏱️ 30 min

Man City's cheating can get in the sea

1. Executive Overview: Core Theses & Key Revelations

The contemporary English Premier League stands at an unprecedented structural crossroads, where the mechanics of elite sport, corporate finance, and sovereign geopolitics have collided. When the presenters of Football Social Daily—Nile, Marley, and Joel—convened for their weekly editorial breakdown, what was billed as a therapeutic ventilation of footballing grievances ("Get in the Sea") swiftly transformed into an unvarnished forensic critique of modern sports governance. The focal point of this landmark discussion was the impending resolution of the 115 financial charges levied by the Premier League against Manchester City Football Club—a case that represents not merely an isolated disciplinary hearing, but an existential threat to the integrity and institutional continuity of global football.

At its core, the conversation dismantled the persistent fiction that financial engineering can be divorced from sporting outcomes. Across an intense, multi-faceted exchange, the panel established four central analytical theses that redefine how football journalism must evaluate state-backed club ownership, regulatory enforcement, and fan psychology:

  • The Governance Breakdown and the "Avalanche" Effect: Premier League regulation has suffered a catastrophic institutional failure. By allowing financial non-compliance and sovereign wealth penetration to accumulate unchecked over a decade, the league's executive leadership permitted a minor snowball of regulatory ambiguity to compound into an unstoppable legal avalanche. The league now faces an existential predicament where enforcing its own rulebook risks destroying its commercial product, while failing to enforce it destroys its legitimacy.
  • The Fallacy of "Money Doesn't Play Football": The reductionist argument that financial irregularities are irrelevant because eleven human athletes perform on the pitch is economically and tactically illiterate. Shadow remuneration structures—exemplified by dual-contract arrangements such as Roberto Mancini's Abu Dhabi consultancy deal—directly dictates which world-class managers and players can be recruited and retained. Financial inflation directly creates competitive advantage; money does not merely facilitate football, it fundamentally configures the pitch.
  • Sovereign State Ownership as a Geopolitical Trap: Modern football has backed itself down a dark alley with no structural exit. Unlike individual billionaire owners who can be sanctioned or isolated under domestic law, sovereign owners represent state governments (such as the United Arab Emirates). Demanding that a state "sell" a football club or attempting to turf out a sovereign government activates bilateral trade leverage, energy security dependencies, and international diplomatic friction. Domestic sport governance has become hostaged to global geopolitics.
  • The Cognitive Dissonance of Proxy Fandom and Sportswashing: The psychological bond of football support creates an acute vulnerability that state actors exploit. Supporters cannot simply discard a lifetime of emotional identity when their club's custodians commit systemic infractions. However, this psychological vulnerability manifests in alarming extremes—ranging from fans acting as bad-faith foot soldiers for foreign governments on social media to a complete erosion of civic self-interest, where defending a club's owners takes precedence over national economic well-being.

This executive overview establishes that the Manchester City 115 charges case is not a mere dispute over accounting entries; it is the ultimate stress test for whether modern professional sport can survive its own hyper-capitalist evolution.

2. Context & Background: The Landscape Leading to This Conversation

To fully comprehend the weight of the analysis delivered on Football Social Daily, one must trace the regulatory and economic trajectory of English football over the past two decades. The acquisition of Manchester City in 2008 by the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG), headed by Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan and chaired by Khaldoon Al Mubarak, marked the definitive arrival of sovereign state capital in the Premier League. While foreign investment was not new—Chelsea Football Club having been acquired by Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich in 2003—the scale, sovereign backing, and geopolitical intent of the Abu Dhabi project represented a paradigm shift in sports asset acquisition.

Between 2008 and 2023, Manchester City transformed from a historically unstable mid-table club into the dominant sporting juggernaut of the modern era, securing multiple Premier League titles, domestic cups, and ultimately a European Continental Treble. Concurrently, the club reported record-breaking commercial revenues, eventually eclipsing traditional European powerhouses such as Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Manchester United. However, this meteoric commercial growth attracted intense skepticism from rival executives, sports economists, and regulatory bodies, who questioned how a club with a historically localized fanbase could generate commercial sponsorship income exceeding that of global heritage brands.

The regulatory dam broke in November 2018 when German investigative publication Der Spiegel published the "Football Leaks" series—a vast archive of internal emails, contract drafts, and financial documents obtained by whistleblower Rui Pinto. The leaked documents alleged that Manchester City's Abu Dhabi management had systematically bypassed UEFA's Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations through several illicit mechanisms:

  • Direct State Injection Masked as Commercial Sponsorship: Internal emails suggested that primary sponsorship deals with Abu Dhabi state entities, such as Etihad Airways and Aabar, were overwhelmingly funded directly by ADUG or state vehicles, with only a fraction of the contract value originating from the corporate sponsor's operational budget.
  • Off-Ledger Executive and Managerial Remuneration: Documents revealed that manager Roberto Mancini had executed a dual contract during his tenure from 2009 to 2013—receiving a baseline UK salary alongside an offshore consultancy agreement with Al Jazira Sports Club in Abu Dhabi, effectively doubling his compensation without accounting for it within Manchester City's official payroll entries.
  • Image Rights and Shadow Operational Vehicles: The club allegedly created third-party corporate vehicles (such as Fordham Sports Image Rights) to offload player image rights costs, artificially suppressing reported operating expenses.

Although UEFA sanctioned Manchester City with a two-year UEFA Champions League ban in 2020, the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) overturned the ban on appeal, citing time-barring restrictions under UEFA statutes and insufficient conclusive evidence for certain allegations. However, the Premier League's regulatory framework contained no such statute of limitations. In February 2023, following a silent four-year investigation, the Premier League formally charged Manchester City with 115 breaches of its financial regulations spanning nine seasons (2009/10 to 2017/18), alongside additional charges for failing to co-operate with the league's investigative body from 2018 through 2023.

The podcast conversation took place against the backdrop of reporting surrounding the long-awaited hearing before an independent tribunal. Coupled with wider industry developments—including the financial collapse of Everton and Nottingham Forest under Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSR), the Saudi Arabia Public Investment Fund (PIF) acquisition of Newcastle United, and the UK government's legislative move to establish an Independent Football Regulator (IFR)—the hosts were forced to confront a landscape where the pitch had become secondary to the courtroom.

3. Deep-Dive Thematic Breakdown

3.1 The Regulatory Avalanche: Financial Fair Play, Systemic Non-Compliance, and the Limits of Premier League Governance

The initial pillar of the panel's critique focused on the complete breakdown of Premier League administrative authority. Joel's assertion that "the Premier League are fucking inept; they've completely lost the reins" encapsulates an institutional reality: regulatory bodies in modern football have consistently operated behind the financial curve, allowing systemic non-compliance to metastasize until enforcement threatens the entire league infrastructure.

When foreign sovereign capital entered the league, the Premier League possessed neither the forensic accounting apparatus nor the legal firepower required to scrutinize complex offshore financial networks. The league relied on self-reporting and basic annual audit disclosures. This structural weakness allowed state-backed entities to exploit regulatory loopholes, establishing financial precedents that smaller or traditionally funded clubs could never replicate. As Joel articulated through his avalanche metaphor, by failing to intervene decisively at the first sign of structural inflation, the league allowed a manageable snowball of financial impropriety to gather momentum over fifteen years.

Furthermore, the Premier League's governance structure contains an inherent conflict of interest. The league is not an independent dictatorial authority; it is a member-owned collective of twenty commercial clubs. For over a decade, attempts to tighten financial rules were perceived by emerging clubs as a protectionist racket engineered by established legacy powers—the so-called "red cartel" of Manchester United, Liverpool, and Arsenal—designed to pull up the financial drawbridge. This ideological schism delayed unified regulatory action, allowing non-compliant practices to take root so deeply that any subsequent punitive measure (such as severe points deductions or compulsory relegation) risks provoking civil litigation, antitrust countersuits, and commercial destabilization.

3.2 The Mancini Paradigm & Structural Distortion: Dual Contracts, Financial Engineering, and Downstream Sporting Effects

A critical contribution of the podcast discussion was its refusal to accept the defensive myth that financial management operates in a vacuum separate from athletic competition. Marley's rejection of the idiom "money doesn't play football" highlights an undeniable economic truth: financial capital directly determines squad depth, managerial quality, medical infrastructure, and tactical consistency.

To demonstrate this systemic distortion, Joel highlighted the operational mechanics of Roberto Mancini's double contract. During his managerial tenure, Mancini was officially compensated via a baseline contract registered with the Premier League worth approximately £1.45 million annually. Simultaneously, he executed an offshore contract with Abu Dhabi's Al Jazira Sports Club to perform four days of annual coaching consultancy for an additional £1.75 million per year. By offloading over half of the manager's remuneration onto an overseas state vehicle, Manchester City suppressed its declared domestic expenditure, artificially lowering its wage-to-revenue ratio and maintaining formal compliance with financial regulations.

The downstream consequences of such financial engineering are profound and irreversible. Had Manchester City been constrained strictly by its legitimate domestic revenues, it would have been unable to offer competitive compensation packages to elite managerial figures like Mancini or later Pep Guardiola, nor could it have assembled a squad featuring global talent across every position. The presence of Mancini on the touchline and elite talent on the pitch directly altered match outcomes, season trajectories, trophy distribution, and European qualification slots across the entire English football pyramid. As Joel observed, this financial leverage created a domino effect: competing managers were dismissed, rival clubs were denied European revenues, and clubs operating within legitimate financial boundaries suffered operational down-sizing and job cuts due to competitive exclusion.

3.3 Sportswashing, Proxy Fandom, and Social Media Extremism: The Psychology of Tribal Loyalties

The conversation probed deeply into the social and psychological phenomenon of sportswashing, specifically examining how state ownership weaponizes fan loyalty to construct an ideological shield around sovereign entities. Nile's condemnation of a fringe segment of Manchester City supporters on social media—who tweeted demands for the UAE government to deliberately increase global oil prices to £2.50 per litre to punish domestic critics—exposed the disturbing extremity of modern proxy fandom.

This behavior illustrates the concept of "head of the snake" sportswashing. Sovereign states do not purchase football clubs merely for vanity; they purchase them to embed state interests directly into the cultural fabric of Western societies. By tying a football club's financial success to the geopolitical power of its state owner, supporters are psychologically conditioned to defend foreign autocracies, rationalize human rights abuses, and adopt hostile postures toward domestic institutions. Nile characterized this willingness to advocate for national economic harm for the sake of a football club's legal defense as "borderline treachery," revealing how tribal sport loyalty can subvert civic responsibility.

Conversely, Marley provided a necessary sociological counterbalance by examining the plight of authentic, generational supporters. Drawing parallels to his own experience as a Newcastle United supporter following the Saudi Arabian PIF takeover, Marley emphasized that fan identity is an indelible, non-transactional bond. Fandom is inherited through family, community, and geography; it cannot simply dissolve when a club is acquired by an ethically objectionable custodian. Marley challenged the supercilious media narrative that demands supporters abandon their clubs, utilizing the powerful metaphor of familial ties: if a family member commits a crime, one may detest the act, but one does not instantly sever emotional love. This tension leaves genuine match-going fans trapped between an unshakeable lifetime devotion and an ownership regime that uses their passion as a public relations buffer.

3.4 Sovereign Wealth & Geopolitical Hostages: The Impossibility of Turf-Out Governance

Perhaps the most sobering insight from the podcast was Joel's interrogation of administrative feasibility: "How do you turf out a government from owning a football club?" This question exposes the ultimate vulnerability of modern sports governance when confronted with sovereign capital.

In standard corporate governance, an owner who violates league bylaws or fails a "fit and proper persons test" can be subjected to administrative expulsion, forced equity sales, or asset liquidation under domestic company law. However, when the beneficial owner of a football club is effectively a sovereign state government, standard regulatory enforcement collides directly with international diplomacy and macroeconomics. As the presenters observed, forcing the United Arab Emirates or Saudi Arabia to divest from an English football asset is not an isolated sports decision; it is a geopolitical event.

The United Kingdom maintains multi-billion-pound bilateral trade agreements, military partnerships, and strategic energy dependencies with Gulf state nations. If the Premier League or UK judicial authorities attempt to forcibly confiscate or devalue a state-owned asset, sovereign owners possess economic countermeasures that extend far beyond football pitch logistics. As Joel noted with stark realism, a state owner faced with forced expulsion can retaliate through sovereign wealth divestment, energy supply adjustments, or trade friction. The Premier League has allowed sovereign entities to acquire domestic cultural assets of such magnitude that the regulators themselves have become economic hostages to the owners they are supposed to govern.

3.5 The Lance Armstrong Fallacy vs. Systemic Contagion: Why Institutional Financial Cheating Rewrites Sporting History

Throughout public discourse surrounding the Manchester City case, commentators have frequently invoked the precedent of Lance Armstrong—the American cyclist who was stripped of seven Tour de France titles following revelations of systemic performance-enhancing drug use. However, the podcast panel convincingly argued why the Armstrong analogy fails to capture the complexity and collateral damage of institutional financial cheating in team sports.

Lance Armstrong competed in an individual sport where performance could be isolated to a single athlete's physiological output. Stripping Armstrong of his titles, while logistically complex, allowed cycling authorities to reassign victories or excise his name from historical record books without invalidating the basic structure of the races themselves. Individual doping is an isolated infraction; institutional financial doping is a systemic contagion.

In a team sport governed by a 38-game league system, financial non-compliance alters the entire ecosystem over multiple years. If a state-backed club utilizes off-ledger capital to assemble a squad that wins a league title by a single point, that non-compliance did not merely affect the champions—it affected all nineteen competing teams. It altered goal differences, match tactics, refereeing dynamics, yellow card suspensions, broadcast revenue distributions, manager longevity, player transfers, and relegation outcomes at the bottom of the table. You cannot simply erase ten years of league tables or retroactively award trophies without triggering an unravelling of football history. The damage inflicted by systemic financial non-compliance is permanent, pervasive, and structurally unfixable.

4. Speaker Perspectives & Analytical Contrast

The dynamic strength of the Football Social Daily discussion relied on the distinct, non-overlapping analytical perspectives of its three presenters. Rather than producing a monolithic echo chamber, Nile, Marley, and Joel approached the Manchester City crisis from complementary angles, creating a comprehensive analytical spectrum that captures the moral, psychological, and macroeconomic dimensions of the story.

To illustrate the points of alignment, friction, and analytical focus among the presenters, the table below synthesizes their respective stances across key governance parameters:

Analytical Dimension Nile (Moral & Fan Responsibility Perspective) Marley (Sociological & Fan Identity Perspective) Joel (Economic & Macro-Governance Perspective)
Premier League Governance Focuses on moral accountability; demands immediate enforcement and clean resolution if guilty verdicts are confirmed. Critical of administrative ineptitude; views rules as historical protectionism that allowed a massive snowball effect. Scathing critique ("fucking inept"); characterizes governance as completely helpless against an avalanche of sovereign wealth.
Fan Responsibility & Social Media Zero tolerance for bad-faith defense; labels social media calls for oil price hikes as "borderline treachery." Contextualizes social media outbursts as hyperbole from isolated accounts in box rooms; urges media nuance. Focuses on the practical harm of sportswashing; notes how fans become unthinking foot soldiers for autocracies.
Ownership Accountability Demands fans revolt and force owners to sell if found guilty; insists ethical boundaries must supersede sport. Recognizes the impossibility of forced sales; highlights that fans are custodians while owners are temporary entities. Questions who could logically buy the club; identifies the fit-and-proper test as an operational failure.
The Nature of Fandom Acknowledges sympathy for genuine fans, but draws a strict line against self-sabotaging national interests. Defends fan identity as an unbreakable bond; uses the sister criminality metaphor to illustrate unconditional love. Views fandom as an emotional vulnerability exploited by sovereign owners in a hyper-capitalist "dick-measuring contest."
Geopolitical Realities Focuses on the immediate cultural impact and domestic economic lunacy of fan reactions. Highlights proxy state dynamics (e.g., Newcastle/Saudi); understands fans cannot alter global trade dynamics. Extensive focus on geopolitical traps, bilateral trade retaliations, trade leverage, and energy security risks.

Detailed Deconstruction of Presenter Positions

Nile: The Moral Imperative and Civic Accountability
Nile operates as the moral compass of the panel. His commentary is defined by a refusal to normalize the absurdities of modern football culture. When evaluating the social media discourse of Manchester City supporters calling for economic retaliation against their own nation, Nile refused to write it off as harmless banter. Instead, he identified it as a dangerous erosion of civic priorities. Nile’s core thesis is that if Manchester City are formally convicted of systemic financial cheating, the moral onus shifts directly to the match-going fan base. In his view, supporters must demand ownership divestment, as continuing to support an ownership group that deliberately compromised the sport's integrity renders the fanbase complicit in that compromise.

Marley: The Sociological Reality of Inherited Loyalty
Marley provides essential grounded empathy, speaking from the lived experience of a supporter whose club (Newcastle United) was acquired by a controversial sovereign state entity. Marley dismantles the arrogant posture of external journalists and non-league commentators who cavalierly suggest that supporters should simply walk away from their clubs. By comparing football fandom to familial love—noting that one does not stop loving a sister if she commits an offence—Marley highlights the non-negotiable nature of sports identity. Fandom is not a consumer subscription that can be cancelled based on corporate ethics; it is an inherited, lifelong emotional anchor. Marley correctly points out that mainstream media figures asking fans to abandon their clubs demonstrate a total lack of skin in the game.

Joel: The Forensic Economist and Geopolitical Realist
Joel functions as the forensic analyst of the broadcast, looking past emotional sentiment to unpack the underlying financial and legal mechanics. He was responsible for bringing concrete operational evidence into the discussion, such as the details of Roberto Mancini's dual contract and the economic reality of managerial inflation. Joel consistently elevates the conversation from domestic sport to macroeconomics, framing state ownership as a high-stakes "dick-measuring contest" between sovereign wealth funds seeking cultural dominance. His analysis of the legal and geopolitical impossibility of "turfing out" a sovereign government provided the episode's most chilling revelation: English football has built an economic structure that it no longer has the power to control or discipline.

5. Strategic & Industry Implications

The investigative breakdown of the Football Social Daily transcript yields several profound strategic implications for the future of professional football, sports law, and institutional capital investment. The resolution of the Manchester City 115 charges case will send shockwaves across the global sports industry, fundamentally altering four major operational domains:

1. The Demise of League Self-Regulation and the Mandatory Statutory Era
The admission that the Premier League is "fucking inept" and structurally incapable of disciplining its most powerful member clubs seals the fate of self-governance in English football. For decades, the Premier League lobbied aggressively against statutory oversight, claiming that private commercial governance was superior. The systemic delays, legal stalemates, and geopolitical paralysis surrounding the 115 charges have proven that private sports leagues cannot self-regulate when sovereign wealth is involved. This failure directly accelerates the implementation of the UK government's Independent Football Regulator (IFR), shifting authority away from league executives toward statutory bodies armed with subpoena powers, strict financial licensing, and state-backed oversight.

2. Civil Litigation Contagion and Balance Sheet Exposure
If the independent tribunal returns guilty verdicts on primary charges related to financial misrepresentation and shadow contracts, Manchester City will face a wave of civil litigation that could rewrite corporate sports law. Rival clubs that suffered demonstrable financial damage—such as Manchester United losing Champions League qualification by a single point, Arsenal missing out on league titles, or clubs like Burnley and Leicester City suffering relegation while operating under compliant budgets—will file massive damages claims in UK civil courts. The total financial liability resulting from loss of prize money, broadcast distributions, and commercial equity could run into billions of pounds, creating unprecedented balance sheet volatility across European football.

3. Valuation Distortions and the Asset Liquidity Trap
The discussion highlighted a critical economic paradox regarding club valuations. State investment has driven elite club valuations to astronomical heights—estimating Manchester City's enterprise value in excess of £4 billion to £5 billion. However, as Joel acutely observed, if a sovereign owner is forced to sell due to regulatory non-compliance or fit-and-proper failures, the buyer pool is virtually non-existent. Traditional local entrepreneurs ("Jack Walker done good") no longer possess the capital to acquire modern football assets, while rival sovereign entities (such as Saudi Arabia) are barred by multi-club ownership rules or geopolitical rivalries. Consequently, state-backed football clubs have become highly illiquid assets: impossible to govern, impossible to sanction, and nearly impossible to sell on the open market.

4. Ideological Bounding and the Imminent European Super League Schism
The deep friction between state-owned clubs (funded by sovereign wealth) and privately owned clubs (funded by US private equity or traditional commercial revenue, such as Fenway Sports Group at Liverpool or Stan Kroenke at Arsenal) has reached a breaking point. Legacy clubs operating under strict cash-flow parameters cannot compete with state entities capable of absorbing limitless losses through off-ledger financial vehicles. If the domestic regulatory framework fails to impose definitive sporting sanctions on financial non-compliance, the legacy European elite will inevitably abandon domestic governance altogether. This will reignite the push for a breakaway European Super League or an international closed-shop structure where financial compliance can be enforced through binding private equity covenants.

6. Looking Ahead: Unresolved Questions & Next Milestones

As English football awaits the final verdict of the independent commission, the analytical narrative established by Football Social Daily serves as a blueprint for the critical milestones that will define the sport's immediate future. The upcoming twelve to twenty-four months will resolve whether professional football can restore institutional integrity or whether it will dissolve completely into sovereign proxy warfare.

Industry analysts, sports lawyers, and club executives must closely monitor four pivotal indicators:

  • The Nature and Scope of Judicial Sanctions: The ultimate test of regulatory independence lies in the severity of the tribunal's penalty. Financial fines are fundamentally meaningless to a sovereign state owner with infinite capital reserves. The only meaningful sanctions are sporting penalties: substantial, multi-season points deductions, compulsory relegation, or the stripping of titles won during the non-compliant seasons. If the tribunal relies solely on financial penalties or diluted point deductions, the Premier League's regulatory credibility will be permanently destroyed.
  • Sovereign Defense Strategy and Appellate Stalemates: Manchester City's legal team, led by Lord Pannick KC, has signaled an unyielding defense strategy premised on "irrefutable evidence." Should an adverse verdict be returned, the subsequent legal appeals before UK higher courts could drag on for years, creating an unsustainable period of operational uncertainty for the entire league.
  • The Independent Football Regulator's Licensing Framework: As the UK government finalizes the powers of the Independent Football Regulator, sports executives must observe whether the new statutory body will introduce explicit sovereign wealth controls, real-time forensic auditing, and strict corporate governance requirements that explicitly prohibit dual-contract managerial arrangements.
  • Fan Base Transformation or Total Realignment: Finally, the footballing world must observe the cultural reaction of the match-going matchday crowd. Will Manchester City supporters follow Nile's directive and turn on their sovereign custodians if systemic guilt is established? Or will sportswashing complete its psychological conquest, leaving supporters to fully embrace state proxy status at the expense of the beautiful game's integrity?

The conversation on Football Social Daily was not merely a podcast episode; it was a devastating indictment of a sport that has lost its financial and moral compass. As Joel aptly summarized quoting Bill Shankly's iconic idiom, while football was once considered more serious than life and death, it has now transformed into a terrifying arena of global geopolitics, corporate warfare, and sovereign ambition. The jack is out of the box, the green liquid of hyper-capitalism has burst through the infrastructure, and modern football is running out of time to save itself.

💬 Key Quotes & Speaker Breakdown

Manchester City 115 charges

"If Manchester City are found guilty, the fan base needs to turn on the owners. They need to force the owners to sell the club because what they've done with Man City is unacceptable."

— Nile

"There is a very small cross section of Manchester City fans that need to be thrown to the bottom of the sea; it's those fans on social media that have been tweeting things like 'raise the price of oil, come on UAE government, put fuel up to £2.50 a litre and tear everyone a new asshole.' That for me is borderline treachery."

— Nile

"I'm sick of hearing the quote that 'money doesn't play football.' It does. Money does play football because there's a reason that 11 were on the pitch at that time."

— Marley

"You can't just throw away your fandom; it doesn't just dissolve, it doesn't disappear. You can't just discard the fact that you support a club and have done your whole life."

— Marley

State ownership in football

"How do you turf out a government from owning a football club? We have backed ourselves in this country in the game that we love down a dark alley and there is no way out."

— Joel

Premier League governance

"The Premier League are fucking inept; they've completely lost the reins. They've let the snowball snowball and it's now a fucking avalanche that is going to absolutely wipe them out."

— Joel

Football club ownership

"It's a dick-measuring contest. It's 'I've got more Ferraris in my garage than you and I can buy anyone I want.'"

— Joel

"I think a lot of owning a football club now is ego-driven and status-driven and that is it. I don't even think it's about winning things."

— Marley

State of modern football

"Football is not a matter of life and death, it's much more serious than that. We should not be sat here on a podcast talking about people raising the price of fuel, geopolitics, and wars. We've lost sight of what the game is."

— Marley

Football fan culture

"I genuinely think football fans, if they had their grandma and their football club, they would go towards their grandma. That's how much loyalty there is towards their football clubs and it is actually quite scary when you think of it that way."

— Joel
📜 View Full Episode Verbatim Transcript 32,105 characters
Welcome to Football Social Daily in award-winning Premier League podcast where this season we have moved our usual Monday feature getting the seat to a Tuesday because you guys love it so much. We've given it its own dedicated show and plenty has gone on in the world of Premier League football over the last week or so and plenty therefore to get off of our chests and cast to the bottom of the sea never to be seen again my name's Nile joined today by Marley and Joel come on then Lads you must be licking your lips about this episode of getting the seat Joel I bet you've got about ten things you want to throw in like you think you think you think you're very presumptuous snail and very right of course of course I've got something related to the Manchester City story as well but there's not much else is there apart from if you want to throw the nation's league which is absolutely boring in the sea I mean you could throw Tommy Tuckle in the sea I didn't watch any of the game against Spain but he got scathing verdicts from that Spain game is that right is he right are they right in saying that or I didn't watch it I didn't watch it because if it's not an international tournament I don't pain my heart's watching it's hard to keep concentrating isn't it but Harry came Mr Penelcy I saw that I tried to watch it but I'd been out on the on the drink all Saturday watching Curson Ashton versus Steely Bridge and I got as far as to get home get get a pizza get on the bed and put the telly on but you know when you do that thing where you've you've turned you've got to change the HDMI from like one to two or something I was trying to do that and in in in between doing that I fell asleep and slept for 12 hours so I missed the England game that's my answer them shite but it was it's a good game by the sound of it but I yes I just sent out an extend I think it's probably harsh on two cool but yeah couple of cock ups and they collapsed again didn't they weren't they like two more defensive mistakes then it was like yeah how do you you know how do you account for that as a manager when you defend it decides to take heavy touch or dribble in the wrong area like you don't tell him to do that so just can't see a game I can we Marley this is the issue I mean we can go into a rabbit hole about the Argentine game again if you want but yeah that was in July I've healed from that now slowly but surely it's a good job you'd already started drinking because watching any England game is enough to drive someone to to the vault to the drink 100% right let's get stuck into getting the sea then and if you've never joined us before like I said at the start of the show this used to be a feature that we do on a Monday but we've changed it for this season because you guys were asking us for a dedicated get in the sea episode so that's what we've done it's basically our therapy session for the week where anything that's annoyed us about English football Premier League football or just football in general can be thrown to the bottom of the ocean never to be seen again there is no doubt that this week the big story is Manchester City and yesterday we did a big deep dive on the story regarding the 115 charges of Manchester City reportedly about to be found guilty of almost all of those charges I said on yesterday's podcast that I felt sorry for Manchester City fans and on the whole I do feel sorry for the majority of city fans because I think they've been led on by owners who have doubled down triple down on their position and city fans are going to feel the aftershocks of this for years and years not a single man city supporter would have gone into work today with a shred of peace because their co-workers would have been absolutely tearing them a new one however there is a very very small cross section of Manchester City fans that need to be thrown to the bottom of the sea it's those fans on social media that have been tweeting things like raise the price of oil come on UAE government put fuel up to £2.50 a litre and tear everyone a new asshole that for me is borderline treachery it's like being a traitor to your own country is that not the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard because my football team cheated everyone else has to suffer even the people that don't like football let's put the fuel prices up and self sabotage ourselves as a nation because we've been found guilty and nobody likes us for it I don't fucking get that at all that can go to the bottom of the sea you know that moral reasoning test where there's a picture of a train track and it goes into two different sides you've got five people and you've got one person and they say the five people are random people and the one person is you grandma who you're going to kill I genuinely think football fans if they had their grandma and their football club they would go towards their grandma like that's how much loyalty there is towards their football clubs and it is actually quite scary when you think of it that way because I mean I know everyone's getting caught up in the discourse about it and it's getting a bit hyperbole in terms of oh we should do this if that means this and just for the sake of basically causing some kind of issue in the economy because their team has been caught cheating but to then do that it is quite ridiculous I mean my my will follow on to yours shortly after but poor Dennis who's got a plumbing business who just needs fuel to get to his next job now cut a four to do it because Billy Big Bollocks man city fan wants to increase oil prices but this is spot washing in a nutshell now you've literally just answered your own question of what it actually is that is it in a nutshell they will defend the nation to the death and that is pure head of the snake of what that actually means and I know Marley you're the supporter of a proxy nation this that's bought your side through kind of in the middle means but let's not forget there were some jolies wearing the traditional Saudi attire when they came in there's the same with man city were doing the same or wearing the Saudi attire I don't agree with it because let's not forget now they've got an army of jolies ill fight tooth and nail for anything where the Saudi criticism which is purely the crux of all isn't it but yeah that's the whole that's the whole point of it isn't it I don't know if it's if I don't know how real it is I don't know how real they're actually saying that but if you write something down it can be taken out of context because you just not you know how do you take that out of context well no I'm saying like it's written down if you said that there could be a toning your voice of being obviously sarcastic if you write it down it can be interpreted different ways you know I see that as hyperbole but it might be it might be serious you know that he might genuinely be saying that and that's that's what you're saying like you've took it that way I don't believe much I read on social media I think a lot a lot of it is total bollocks having worked in the industry for 10 years now that's not forget a lot of these guys are tweeting from the box rooms about these kinds of things it's not like they want it to happen that that's just what social media isn't it not show you watch a boxing fight and they're like oh I could easily take an ant and you just like my friend you've never put on boxing gloves in your life and you living out you know well is adding to the conversation but I was going to say I get in the scene one of my alternate get in the scenes it's not allowed on this getting the scene because it's a it's a football get in the the boxing that's going on at the minute they're back and forth and doing a white chant of stickies nose into what's going on with your shoe and fury but that's one for for an extra time podcasting in the in the coming weeks I think because that's that's really getting on my tits but to follow on from from yours now mine mine's slightly different because mine is is um city fans being asked the question of are you gonna stop supporting them if you found guilty like I I had this question when obviously the Saudis took over Newcastle and you guys know why and so was it and it was just I'm a fuck gonna stop supporting the club it's not so it's it's you just don't get you don't get full but like I said in them Steve Steven McKinney on on some quite big media platforms in the last 24 hours who used to be part of this podcast back in you know five six years ago and um he was asked I think it was the times radio and the guy was like you've got to stop supporting Manchester City and he was like are you taking the piss me like in in nicer words and that I must say Steven held himself back quite you know cleverly but yeah you can't just throw away your fandom it doesn't just dissolve it doesn't disappear you can't just discard the fact that you support a club and have done your whole life and questions like that they're so lazy and they often come from journalists or people in the media who get a sports story land on their lap admittedly a really big one which is this man city case and they don't really have a clue yeah I agree with you Marley that's just nonsense isn't it? yeah it's just one of them lazy questions like you know you you can tell you don't cover football if you're asking that question like you've got no you you mustn't have any skin in the game and I think Steven replied to his his question by saying like do you follow a football team and he was like oh I support my local non league team and it's like right well they're well therefore you've proved that you're you're unqualified to answer this question because what happens at your non league football team or local football team whatever it is is not going to happen on the skill of what's happening at Manchester City like it's just not you're never going to be in that situation so you can always sit there and go oh well I'd I'd walk away from my club and you just won't like if it happens to you like what was I going to do to stop following football if if I don't like the Saudis like what I got what yeah I don't like how my club is ran by the people is ran by but that's the game and the game is like that because the Premier League are fucking inept they've completely lost the the reins they've they've let the the snowball snowball and it's now a fucking ever lunch that is going to absolutely wipe them out and as we said yesterday that's why these comparisons to Lance Armstrong I don't particularly like them because he's an individual it's quite easy to disassociate yourself with an individual something unique about the sport of football where it really does bond you to a certain club your fandom and your support for that team and speaking of things on an individual level maybe this is the best question to get people who ask that kind of thing two football fans to understand if your sister Marley was a criminal and got put in jail would that stop you loving your sister no you don't like what she's done but you can't just stop loving someone yeah I think the only thing my sister's guilty of is feeling to to renew her daughter's passport so she couldn't go on holiday in the summer so a few weeks ago she didn't she got I think it was run out in four days or something and they were about to go to Greece and she had to go to Greece a week later so I think instead of 10 days in Greece and three days in Greece which is funny um but yeah other than my sister just being a bit dipsy I don't think she's she's broken any laws that I can I can reveal on this podcast anyway yeah but now going off got one of what you just said as well everyone needs to remember that football clubs are the entity they're the umbrella and whoever is operating them are the custodians same way if the glazes do anything which is illegal that's not man United acting although it is because they are the owners of it but it wouldn't make me say oh I'm not spotting man United anymore because the glazes did x y and z to me they don't represent man United they're just the people who currently have possession of it if they leave tomorrow man United is still an entity is still something that is sitting there as is you just got to trust the people to run it in the correct way like I say they're almost like an adopted parent aren't they until it turns 18 and let's it go but I was thinking about this and I was thinking about what we had discussed yesterday Joel when you said it doesn't really matter what the punishment is because it's done everything's happened you can't turn back the clock and undo what's already been done you can take titles away but you can't relive those moments and it got me thinking whilst I was driving in the car earlier and I thought why why do the UAE own Manchester City what's the purpose why does anyone own a football club if they want to own a football club to win stuff and they've cheated to do it it's almost like take your ball and go home and I was really trying to deep it and think a little bit more wider why do people own football clubs because they don't really make money Manchester United is an interesting one because the owners take dividends out of the club but as a business it's a loss making business as are almost all of the 92 football clubs in this country that are in the EFL and the Premier League so why do people like Shakeman saw the Saudi public investment fund Jim Ratcliffe the Cronkeys why do they own football clubs what's the purpose do you not think that answer's changed over the last 20 years where maybe in the 90s it was like you always mentioned whereas a local guy who owns it and wants to be you know he's the custodial of a local team yeah exactly he's the local guy who almost represents that area of England for football for example now when you're looking at all of the championship teams being taken up by A-listers in LA and movie stars and people wanting an even x-football players you know even Leon Armesis got a couple of Spanish clubs JRPK's now involved in it David Beckham's got into Miami the whole landscape of owning a football club has changed I remember speaking to Marley about this maybe when you're away one time when you've got an elite set of people who are very rich money isn't a differentiator anymore you need something else to prove your state to symbol I think a lot of owning a football club now is ego driven and status driven and that is it I think that is pure that's the pure motivations I don't even think is about winning things even if we take the sports washing situation out of this and take that factor away in the onus is on that status side of it like you say and trying to win what's the benefit for the UAE or Abu Dhabi an inverted commas shake man saw Caldo now Mabarak what's what's their incentive for cheating it's because they want to be the best it's it's a dick measuring contest at all is like it's it's I've got more Ferrari's in my garage than you and I can buy anyone what I want and then you you go you know what like Joe like Joe said like what's next I've got an NFL franchise I've gone by a football club or I've got like the Saudis got a whole league like they own the league basically and they know well our league gets no eyes what what league gets eyes the Premier League all right who can we buy oh well they're for sale they might be sale new castle for sale right fuck it yeah we'll get them like that's all it is in that case then man city and their supporters like I said yesterday being used absolutely now with Saudi when I've read a few reports about the Saudi intentions and everyone's seen the sports rise there at its crooks at the head of the snake all the bin Salman wants to achieve is to increase GDP and if sports is a way to do that that's what they'll do they can dress it up in any way they want which is we want to entitles we want to make new castle the you know the big star in that area of England is it's all posturing at the crooks of all of this now and it's quite sad to say we can't keep romanticizing what a football was versus what it now is now what it is is status and money it's about investors getting a return on their investments and growing because drumming LeBron James bought into Liverpool when as a family was in there and he got like a 5% or maybe is 1% it was worth something like 50 million I'm kind of paraphrasing the numbers but he invested 50 million in now it's worth 300 million I'm sure he likes Liverpool but I'm sure he likes 300 million and a 400% increase in his returns much more in its core it's just the business and for the Saudi states is increasing GDP trying to create other avenues of investment around the world in the eventuality that oil doesn't become the sole supplier of their nation anymore in a couple hundred years it's all just it's the higher have it is money in diversification it's quite sad to look at it that way that's why I think it's so difficult to compare this case to any other case whether it be Calciopoli that we discussed yesterday that was a match fixing scandal Lance Armstrong that was a performance enhancing drugs scandal this is different to all of those because it's a financial scandal and there is no 100% way of confirming if city had missed out on a player would they still have gone on to win the league like there's just no way of knowing for sure half of the stuff that they've been accused of you can make guesses in predictions no with Lance Armstrong you know for certain because he was juiced and there was DNA evidence that he had been on drugs that he won his titles illegitimately because Manchester City's is all financial there are still decisions that need to be made off the back of that yes I do think that they are guilty as the reports suggest and I think they should be punished severely because of that but it's a lot harder and a lot more complex to get to the bottom of I think than Calciopoli which is right match fixing we've got evidence of that there's bribe payments Lance Armstrong drugs it's just so much more difficult to to actually nail down which is why I think it's taken so long yeah and this is why for me you can't strip the titles of Manchester City with the event as you can strip the titles because they at the outcome of that match was affected by cheating by bribe and match officials you could you can trace Manchester City's success back to their financial stuff but there's an extra step isn't there there's there's did it affect what happened on the pitch no did it affect what happened off the pitch yeah because you you buy the players off the pitch then put the players on the pitch there's still going to be better than the 11 that they play every week and that's why for me you can't you can't strip them of the titles and and and also any punishment should be fourth come in rather than are you can we all just forget you won those titles like over the past nine years I think the best way to summarize what you've just said Marley is that 100 point season that's insurance season that is something that having already won the title those players were determined to go on and achieve it wasn't a case of financial incentive in that regard it was a can we as athletes go and break a record it doesn't really matter how much money people being paid or the fact that those players were there illegally they've achieved their goal which is winning the league that's a sporting incentive from those group of individuals let's go on and break a record let's go on and win a hundred points that's not something that finances have influenced but the fact that the players were there in the first place is where the argument comes from that's exactly that I'm sick of here in the quote of money doesn't play football it does money does play football because there's a reason that 11 were on the pitch at that time during the season I don't think you can question the sporting achievements of for example what Pep did during that season because objectively speaking they were better than the other 19 teams by an absolute country mile however what that how he was enabled to do that is the thing in question which is yeah you can compare land up land time strong with drugs or you can compare cheating with their match fixing because they're black they are black and white but cheating is cheating I know this one's a little bit more nuanced then there's a lot of context around it but at the same time they've gained a competitive advantage that is the key of it I totally agree with you Joel but I kept thinking about this earlier it's just football it's more than that now now it's more than that so for example when I was looking into the Mancini one where they've given him I think it was 1.45 million contract and then they gave a 1.75 million contract to do four days of coaching in Abu Dhabi effectively it's got a double contract so then that no but then that's the reason my may have gone so this is what I mean is influenced everything that has came after it so if Mancini was never the manager them because they offered him that offshore contract or basically dressing it up as coaching you may have never even gone to Mancini in the first place so that and that should have been reported and then that means that that affects revenues and that affects a lot of things that they can do and can't do so and affects sponsorships and it's very complicated because there's no direct influences this is the issue there's no it's not I did it to you it's because I did this all these things might have happened and it's very nuanced and that's the biggest issue we can't pin it down but we know it's there yeah it's exactly it Joel because like I said Lance Armstrong black and white DNA banning take all his titles that influence his performance done whereas you use the word Mancini may not have gone to Mancini and that's the key word isn't it may he might have decided that the money was the reason that he went it's definitely an influence but if if but if you were to say but if if we are to not punish that then let ever let every other could do that then that's the reason these rules have been criticized so heavily by Manchester City fans and by some in the media it has to be said about the pulling up at the drawbridge and the ring fencing of the elite and the red cartel as the city fans like to call them there is I think legs in both sides of the argument what I think is unfortunate is the fact that the Premier League set these rules Manchester City a part of the Premier League and therefore have to adhere to the rules whether they like them or not I don't like some of the laws that we've got in the UK but if I break them I'm going to go to jail and if you don't like it you know where to go another country that abides by them I sorry that sounded so like horrible them but you know where to go don't you like if you don't have to stay you don't have to stay in the Brexit rules say you fucking do it's very hard now so I know about Marley but yeah it's I mean my my getting to see just the kind of add on to that was the fact that there's a lot of city fans and I was watching Piers Morgan's show with Simon Jordan it was like a clip of it and it was one of those kind of famous content creator man city fans that went on and honestly I was cringing through my teeth when I saw something that he said where he said basically um we're going to lose jobs if the Premier League relegators or we're going to you know all the turn style people will not have jobs anymore and I was thinking how have you turn this into I'm the victim Manchester City are the ones who are the perpetrators here they're the ones who've flaunted the rules if you're going to you can't be pointing to the thingy you need to start using the thumb a little bit more look closer to home who's the real issue here it's not the Premier I mean okay the Premier League might have been the ones who said you can have Abu Dhabi state ownership but you they're still rules in place you still can't be flaunting them they're not the reason why they might be job losses man city have to take all of that on the chin you can't be using victimhood and boy you cried wolf it's not it's Manchester City's fault that's the point blank the owners need to take that on the chin absolutely we need to reach a point where Manchester City fans realize what has happened and they will wait until the outcome of the Premier League investigation because they have been ghastly it feels like by their ownership who have been so vehement in their defense saying that they have irrefutable evidence and they're still very confident that they're going to clear their name we saw that in that letter from Caldo and Almabarak two days ago we saw that I'm sorry I know the other night yeah sorry I know a meeting of European clubs said that he feels the same way he's confident that city will be able to fight the charges now when a fan base in a tribal sport is being told something by people that they trust they are going to listen to those people we need to reach a point where if Manchester City have found guilty the fan base of Manchester City needs to turn on the owners they need to force the owners to sell the club because what they've done with man city is unacceptable it might never happen but that's the situation they're in because for every time someone goes on a podcast and says people might lose jobs because of this there is going to be a counter argument of what about the teams that have been relegated or lost out on winning the FA Cup because you cheated and they've had to make job cuts because of that how deep does it go it bleeds out and out and out and out it's so difficult to try and as you said Joel pin down where this all started and put it all back in the box the jack is out of the box and it's impossible to try and piece all the things back together it is just so difficult to do but I think that Manchester City if they're found guilty officially there needs to be a situation where the fans turn on the ownership then there's another question of who do the owners sell to who do Abu Dhabi sell Manchester City to a club of that value and that size who's buying they're not going to sell to the Saudis because they've got new castle and they don't get on you're running out of people to sell to there is nobody we have reached the top of the food chain and this is what I keep saying you mentioned Jack Walker Marley the local businessman done good with a load of money bought the Premier League as that was where the original saying came from when they bought Shira and Sutton and Dalglish was the manager blackburner a small club comparatively but they won the Premier League through the players that they bought but Jack Walker's the local businessman done good there isn't they don't exist anymore it's not even a case of are you rich enough to buy it it's are you rich enough to buy it and then fight all the charges that all the the count of sous sous in that's going to come from 15 other Premier League teams and everyone else every man and the dog is going to try and take city to court over lots of earnings so they would how do you value it what the highest highest commercial revenue in the world higher than Real Madrid won the Champions League won the one the most Premier League in the last 10 years superstar players big TV revenue the value of Manchester City would be huge absolutely huge I think it's not even a case of of turn turning on the owners because the owners are the ones that have made the mistake you would assume there was a way of forcing them out from a Premier League basis and then the and then the the thing comes in the fit and proper test that they wouldn't now pass so how can you you know if you if you pass a fit and proper test and then you prove that you are not a fit and proper person by this skill of massive cheating like how do you then continue are you then forced into a seal and then who's going to buy it because of the like it's a really it's it's it's the most interesting situation we've ever had in the Premier League football is fucked it's broken it's done we're at the point where it's almost unfixable because even the situation that we saw with Chelsea and a bram of itch that is still an individual and he was forced out because of a geopolitical issue a war between Russia and Ukraine and the Russian money was then being funneled out of the UK and Chelsea was a big Russian asset and the money that was supposed to be part of the transaction between a bram of itch and clear lake slash Todd Bowley is still in an escrow account it's still just floating away in an account somewhere billions of pounds that was meant to be given to victims of the war between Russia and Ukraine that money hasn't been that money hasn't gone anywhere it's still just sat there that is different because it's an individual it's one man it's Roman a bram of itch how do you get rid of a nation yes it's Caldoon al-Mabarak yes it's Sheikh Mansor they are the UAE government how do you turf out a government from owning a football club we have we have backed ourselves in this country in the game that we love down a dark alley and there is no way out and that is the problem well the issue with with the issue with Nathan now we're seeing with the issues with nation nations getting involved is that it reaches government level and if that if the government forces Abu Dhabi to sell what happens to the what happens at the trade between Abu Dhabi and England then ironically then yeah they they've gone full circle and petrol ends up a six pound a year and then that guy wants to get his wish then exactly well if you're not going to do if you're going to force us out of an asset that we own well then let's see how you like it when we affect trade for your country and all of a sudden it's no longer football and it's geopolitics but when you consider it's 11 blokes versus another 11 blokes kicking a fucking bag of wind around for 90 minutes on a Saturday afternoon with people in the stanzi in hot dogs and drinking pies it's quite mad isn't it what has gone on it it that's there's that famous quote from Bill Shankley football is not a matter of life and death it's much more serious than that a fantastic quote which takes into account exactly how important football is to the culture and the people of this country but we should not be sat here on a podcast talking about people raising the price of fuel geo politics wars you know we've lost sight of what the game is where the money goes the attention flows now it was always going to happen it was always going to happen it's just the beat it's like the incredible hawk it's taken that green liquid and we don't know how big it's going to go now until the point where it pops I think this is the popping of it then this is where we've actually experienced for the hawk is it's green stuff everywhere Jesus Christ how so we've started off sorry to start off talking about the football we ended up talking about the hawk's penis about the sound of things Jesus Christ I'm gonna have to clip that up and get it on social media Joel loves the hawk a little bit too much yeah absolutely that is it for football social daily today and no doubt the Manchester City narrative will continue over the next few weeks the international break soon it won't it's two more weeks to go I just realized when I said that it won't be because it's three weeks instead of two weeks this time but stick with us anyway on football social daily we'll continue to bring you content that is it today's episode we'll catch you next time