Guilty: Inside Manchester City's Financial Verdict and the Fractured Legacy of Pep's Era

The one question I get most after all that football memory making we experienced across America this summer is, how do I keep the magic going? Let's start by saying, articulate what you love the most and then build on it. First, find a team that will most probably break your heart and then add all the supporting necessities to build your weekend tradition, the key to so many of mine. It's Walmart, the place that has it all, the snacks, the coffee, the pies, you can also get the TV at Walmart, the hoodie to wear on your couch, get the couch if you need it and wait, it gets better. Because they're expressed delivery can get it right to your door, so you're all set for kickoff. Whatever you match they need, you can find them at walmart.com slashsocker. Delivery timing varies by order size, traffic, weather and demand, subject to availability fees and terms apply. You're listening to the Men in Blazers media network, suboptimal radio. What a seismic day in world football history, Manchester City, have been found guilty on all but one of the 115 charges relating to breaches of the Premier League's financial regulations. Sanctions have not yet been decided, Manchester City are expected to appeal. They're not lands on strong just yet. Charge back in 2023 after four-year investigation, Rory Smith, I was beginning to think this day would never happen in simple terms. Explain what exactly happened this afternoon. So what happened was we got to the end sort of of the first phase sort of of the Premier League's three and a half year investigation into these allegations, these charges of Manchester City not adhering to the lead's financial rules and refusing to cooperate with an investigation into them. The actual number of charges, Rod, is slightly confusing. It's become known as 115, but I think, depending on how you count it, it might be 130 or it might be 108. It's very hard to tell, but they they have, as the athletic reported, they brought the story. They have been found guilty on all but one of them. We don't know which one is the one they weren't found guilty of. We don't know how much of a consolation that is, a consolation goal for Manchester City. But it seems like the Premier League after all that time and after countless turn of delays, I think we're not far off it being the longest civil case in English-leadle history. They have got the verdict that I guess would validate the investigation in the first place. However many charges there are, as I understand it, and this is two recovering lawyers, essentially three infractions. They're all bucketed. There's an accusation of not complying with the Premier League investigation into the club's finances, not good. We'll talk about that in a minute. Second, disguising money from the owners. Essentially sponsorship income from Abu Dhabi companies pumped into the club, which helped reduce the losses allowed them to spend more under the old rules of financial fair play. And then the third accusation is that individuals were being paid off the book. Like the Los Angeles Clippers with Kauai, yeah. Pablo Torre would never be a Manchester City fan. Ro, what's the historical comparison to this moment we're in or are we in uncharted waters? I think in terms of the nature of the offences, the nature of the charges we probably are. Because for a long time there weren't any financial regulations in football. To be honest, at least two of those book years, as you put it, Roge, that then opens the door to accusations of actual kind of non-sporting offences. I don't want to kind of get us into legal trouble. But if you're paying people off the book and if you're not disclosing income, there is a word for that in financial circles. We don't know whether City might be exposed to that at a later date. In terms of, I think the situation that these charges put the Premier League in, there is a parallel historically, but it's not from England, it's from Italy. It's the Calciopoli scandal of 2006, 2007 that kind of engulfed Seria, Italy's top flight, which ended up with events as the biggest club in Italy. And a couple of the other kind of titans of Seria being dot points, being demoted to the second division, having titles stripped. So we are in charted territory in terms of football history. But for England, I don't think there is a parallel. Good time to remind us, trophy-wide City of 1-8 Premier League titles, 4 FA Cup, 7 League Cups, 1 Champions League, Unleashed Countless, Nol Galligan on POSNUM videos, under the ownership of Sheikh Mansour, whose Abu Dhabi Unite Group acquired the club back in 2008. I think six of these have come since the charges were brought. City statement, essentially, nothing to see here, everyone stay calm. They said the Premier League process remains ongoing, with significant elements to be completed, subject to strict confidentiality. Should it, it feels like one of those drug commercials where they have to read things really quickly? Side effects include diarrhea, yeah. Yes, as much as the TJFT position remains consistent, with the club statement of February 2020, the club has diligently respected due process, failures on the basis, the Premier League board, and executive who you get the drift. Yep, you're going to get herpes if you take this job. They are appealing. They're going to take it all away to the Supreme Court. Baby, you can't handle the truth. What stage in the process are we in now? Well, as I say, I think we're kind of at the end of the first phase, which has taken three and a half years. So the Premier League's case has been heard by an independent panel. They have found we believe Manchester City guilty on all, but one of the X number of charges. There is no sanction. We don't yet know what the independent panel's decision on city's punishment will be, and we don't know what the outcome of an appeal is. We don't actually technically know if city will appeal. We presume that they will appeal because, and I think this is really important, it's kind of a subtle nuance to it that I think is often missed. The nature of the city project, regardless of what the punishment is, even if they get given a kind of relatively kind of slap on the wristy fine, the project can't handle the idea that it has been tarnished. So city have to appeal everything, even if the Premier League do some sort, even if Premier League lose their nerve and the sanctions not that serious, city will have to appeal it because their stance has always been. This is totally unfounded. We have irrefutable proof that it's wrong. We are completely innocent. They're not really in a position there to accept a mild punishment, which means that I suspect as much as it feels like this is the end of something, it might be the beginning of something else. They can't end up trying this in some court in Florida. Royal mention sanctions. Not to go all medieval on your asses, but the list of potential punishments, I think believe they're outlining rule W-51, we're all experts now. I just, when I woke up this morning, I thought, hm, W-51, I knew it. I'll just remind you if you don't know what it is, it's in the Premier League's handbook, slew of options for the panel to apply from reprimand, and fines to point deductions, and yes, even the nuclear option, expulsion from the Premier League. Yeah, that's kind of the full suite of it. I think the one that's not included there is the stripping of titles, which is what happened in Italy with Juventus and is still contested. That, I should say, was a different nature of offence for Juventus, but that was the punishment there. And I think in a sport in sense to me, that is the most logical sanction, because the offences are largely historic. They affected what happened then, not what happened, what is happening now, necessarily. The problem that the Premier League's got is that I think the sanction is only the start of it, though, because you then have to cast your mind back to all the teams that were deprived of something by city, if they are found guilty, if their appeal fails, if they are sanctioned. You then get teams who missed out on titles. Maybe more importantly, teams who missed out on the Champions League, they will then all have a claim, or the possibility of a claim for damages against city, against the lead. That is another kind of legal minefield that's been opened up. You're beloved Everton Raj, you will know. I'm currently appealing the fact that they were told to pay barely £35m for staying up when they were in breach of PSR. There's no reason that principle won't apply with city. We know that several Premier League clubs have already, I think, in 2024, kind of put in a legal document to say that they might reserve the right to do that, if things turn out a certain way. So it may even be that when there is a sanction to city, that might just be the start of it. The whole thing, and this is a technical legal term, Raj, is a bit of a mess. Yeah, heart, crap, baby. As I think, Judge Panic. Judge Judy said. Yeah, one or the other. I can't keep any of them. He's not a Judge Joe Panic. They thought he was, but he's not a God bless. Raw, I could say one aspect. We don't know right now. We are in the, you know, we really do want to get to the end of this. There's football fans. By the way, for rational reasons, we want to put this behind us. We want to get to the football. We're all sick when city do so in great, if having to say, and by the way, there's 115 charges still there. Like we want to get, be honest, the league for its own coherence, for its own sense of truth, for its own sense of fair competition, wants to put this behind them. But this is going to take time. You know, some of the charges relate to city failing to cooperate. And that panel, as they're working on their judgment, ultimately means they can't be that lenient. Because then they're going to essentially, if it's a slap on the wrist, they're going to say to every team that is ever charged. Again, yeah, you don't need to comply either. Everton, by the way, you mentioned this. We've got eight points deducted for an entrance rate infraction on the new stadium. What can we expect if, you know, we were the panel? Well, I think you're absolutely right. The non-compliance charges have always been treated as almost secondary to the actual kind of financial charges. But I'm not sure that's right. Because the whole thing rests on everyone agreeing to the rules. And it sounds like a stupid comparison. But if one team just decided they didn't really like the way the off-side rule worked, with or without VAR, the whole thing kind of collapses. And it's the same with financial regulation. If you're saying you've all signed up to play by these rules and then one team breaks them, and then refuses to help with an investigation, that isn't acting in good faith. And this whole thing, like all sports, rests on good faith, it rests on everyone accepting. These are the rules and we have to abide by them. I think that means that the sanction has to be swinging, I think, to the journalist. The sort of journalist term for it. It has to be quite harsh. And as you say, the Everton points the Dutch and the Forest points the Dutch and they kind of set a bar for for the tariff of what you get for compared to this relatively minor offences. Chelsea, I suppose, is the other comparison. They've been given kind of suspended sentences and fines for their own historic offences. But the difference there, and this is important. Chelsea's new ownership, love them all, love them, reported them themselves. That was, there was, it was from the previous owner and they self-reported. They found them in the books when they took over and they self-reported and I think the Premier League took that into account. If they hadn't and they'd been discovered at a later date, I think you'd have seen much more severe punishments. So yeah, I think there is a lot, there is, there is a good chance now because of the scale of the victory for the Premier League. I'm not sure that's quite the right way of framing it, but because of the fact that the city have been found guilty on the majority of charges, I think we have to prepare ourselves for the idea that unless there has been some sort of procedural mistake that the punishment city get is going to be pretty severe. Chelsea, remember, snitches get stitches, yeah. Not self-snitches. If you self-snitches. Yes, self-snitches. It does get stitches. And most of all, I didn't like about Todd Burley. He's a self-snitcher. The one question I get most after all that football memory making we experienced across America this summer is, how do I keep the magic going? Let's start by saying, articulate what you love the most and then build on it. First, find a team that will most probably break your heart and then add all the supporting necessities to build your weekend tradition, the key to so many of mine. It's Walmart. The place that has it all, the snacks, the coffee, the pies. You can also get the TV at Walmart, the hoodie to wear on your couch, get the couch if you need it and wait. It gets better because they're expressed delivery can get it right to your door, so you're all set for kickoff. Whenever you match, they need die. You can find them at walmart.com slashsocker. Delivery timing varies by order size, traffic, weather and demand, subject to availability fees and terms apply. We do have to mention before we all get ahead of ourselves, Manchester City will ban from the Champions League February 2020 that UEFA ban was overturned in the course of arbitration for sport almost immediately for statue limitations that doesn't apply here. Roar, I want to talk about the possible pathways that it could go for the Premier League though. Look, I watch Norco's all the time. There are consistent Pedro Pascal, Moody voiceovers in that show about our societies, only function when there are both laws and the willingness to apply them. Is this a victory today for the Premier League? Or do we have to hold our horses there and wait to see. So I think in one sense it is because it justifies the fact that they've pursued this case for three and a half years at considerable cost, like the legal bills, as you know, as a former lawyer, you'd have been charging an absolute bucket load for this work, wouldn't you? You'd have been absolutely quits in. I love football. The show wing. So I think in terms of kind of getting justice, the Premier League have won. They have clearly made the case convincingly that City have not adhered to the rules and therefore should be punished. That is a win. But if you look at the consequences, I think it's really hard to say that this is a case of the Premier League acting in its own interest, even the other, but the Premier League, as a theme, doesn't really exist, right? This is one of those weird things where we talk about the Premier League. The Premier League is just its clubs and some people who work to implement the will of those clubs. But there is now a question mark. Whatever the punishment is over every single title that City have won in this period, which I think probably impacts kind of the perception of the competition, the reputation of the competition, it might have an impact on if you want of the broadcast partners, if you're Sky Sports or NBC or whoever. Kind of what you've been broadcasting in Pentecostal, I've wanted to broadcast for the last 10 years. How real has it been? Like, we don't know. And you then have, as I mentioned, the stope for leadal kind of ramifications, claims from one club against others. That could admire the Premier League in all sorts of leadal ponderies and quagmires for years. So it's not the case that this is a great day for the Premier League. They won't be sitting in their offices, which are Paddington in London, celebrating. They will know that this is justification for all of the effort of the last three and a half years, including the investigation. But it's not a good thing for the Premier League. It would have been better, Raj, if everyone had adhered to the financial rules in the first place. Oh my God, that is crazy what you've just laid down. Now that is mind-bending. That is like severance level, like any inality lead titles were lost. What could have been the hypotheticals will make you lose your mind? Please, people, stop texting me. Funny tweets about how the punishment is going to be severe. And it is an effort and they're going to be relegated to divisions. It's not funny. It brings out so many terrible memories. But one last one, you kind of hit on this. Premier League would normally prefer to apply punishment to the future looking, so that the real punishments that impact the club in the here and now, as opposed to kind of retrospective ones. Like in Couchyopoly, in Italy, Rio Ferdinand was quick to treat. Another medal added to the cabinet room. Liverpool fans all over the internet proclaiming more club title wins. I think he finished second, was it twice? Arsenal fans are quickly heralding Michaela Tetta, three time Premier League title winner. Can I get a ruling from you on this rule? An objective one for me, as a red? Yeah, I think, and this will be taken as terrible bitterness by city fans. To me, stripping them of the titles, if they are found guilty, if we get to the end of the end of the process and that we all decide that city a guilty, I think stripping them of titles makes the most sense because that is the kind of most coherent sporting punishment more than a points to dutch in or a transfer ban or whatever. The caveat to that is that you can't change the moment. So the feeling that city fans had when they won in 2012 or when they won in 2014 or all the titles under Droidiola, that feeling existed just as the feeling of disappointment that Liverpool had in 2019 and 2022 when they missed out on the last day. I remember that disappointment and that disappointment was real and it doesn't change it knowing that that kind of five, ten years down the line, you actually theoretically on paper won the title. So I would say my belief is that if we get to the end and and everything is as it stands now that city a guilty on all of these charges but won. I think the most appropriate punishment is probably to strip them of the titles but not award them to save them as it's empty. Manchester City fans, you'll always have those memories you generationly grandparents can look at their grandkids and be like, do you remember that incredible day when we did that fraud and we won that title? Oh, it's just the greatest. Do you remember that payment to Yaya Tori's image rights? Oh, it's wonderful. What does it do for Peck? What do you think Peck Wadiola's feeling today as he's walking around his room and is slightly off-kill to cargo pants? There's appeals, this thing has got the cases to be decided but what's it do for his legacy in the here and there? It makes it more complicated, Raj, but then from his point I wouldn't want to claim to be inside Peck's psychology but I think we are as humans quite good at performing the mental gymnastics necessary to convince ourselves until the last possible moment of things will work out the way we want them to. So I'm sure Peck will be hanging on to the idea that there will be an appeal, that there will be a way of kind of making it look better than it does at the moment. But if it does reach the end and city are guilty, then I think without question complicates Peck's legacy, all the impact he had on English football is real and the memories that he gave us, the teams that he produced, they all existed. But I think that there is an asterisk for the time being and possibly in perpetuity nets to everything now. That is how serious it is. Just as it was with Calciopoli in Italy, that as soon as, and it may well be that the Clippers or whatever have similar stories to tell, but there is an asterisk nets to everything that is achieved when things are won and later stained. That's the way it works. That's why you're meant to adhere to the rules. Imagine Peck has probably got a hold of Lord Pannock, the lawyer who's representing Manchester City, as if he's Nicoer Riley after a bad game and it's just grabbed him. And it's like explaining legal tactics to him, furiously, as the appeal is mounted. Peck was always really good in defeat. He was always really gracious. He'll be, guys, guys, listen, they played a great game. They played a great game, great, great case they made. He'll be, he'll be gracious. Yeah, he'll be, when they ask him, why don't you feel after 114 charges for you? So, so happy. I am so, so happy, so good, so good. Yeah. It's a perhaps a great example, it's a great turn of lens to see it through, Roch, because everything he did for English football is real. But it's maybe not quite as real as it looked. It's a better days ahead, and we'll be following this as it breaks raw. I'd like to say it's good to see you, I've seen you in better, better moments, but thank you, man, for making the deeply complicated, so much more simple, big, big love. The one question I get most after all that football memory making we experienced across America this summer is, how do I keep the magic going? I'd start by saying, articulate what you love the most, and then build on it. First that, find a team that will most probably break your heart, and then add all the supporting necessities to build your weekend tradition, the key to so many of mine. It's Walmart, the place that has it all, the snacks, the coffee, the pies, but you can also get the TV at Walmart, the hoodie to wear on your couch, get the couch if you need it, and wait, it gets better, because they're expressed delivery, you can get it right to your door, so you're all set for kickoff. Whatever you match, they need, you can find them at walmart.com slashsocker. Delivery timing varies by order size, traffic, weather and demand, subject to a availability fees and terms apply.