Host on Football Social Daily: "It is one of the most seismic moments in the history of not just the Premier League, ...

It is one of the most seismic moments in the history of not just the Premier League that English football. It all started seven years ago with a hacked email, but now after years and years and years, reports suggest that Manchester City have been found guilty of almost all of the 115 charges brought against them. It throws up into the air, the integrity of the sport in this country, the integrity of Manchester City football club and brings into doubt what the future of Premier League football looks like. Welcome to Football Social Daily. Lads normally at the start of these podcasts, bit of a joke, bit of a laugh. I don't know what to say. I'm honestly speechless. Oh, we can laugh now. We can absolutely laugh if there are anyone who obviously can't see our faces right now. I'm smiling like a cheshire cat right now. Like, is anyone surprised? First of all, are you guys surprised by what has happened because I'm not in the slightest. I'll explain myself later, but like, Joel, Joel, it's the best thing. It's the best thing that's happened to my United in 12 years. I'm going to tell by the smile on your face. We've got 22 times my United. So, you know, whenever they want to do the open top box, I'm ready for it. Well, we'll come on to that because I'm not sure how much I agree with the stripping and re-awarding of titles, but that's something we'll come on to a little bit later. The fact I was shocked was not because these charges have finally been revealed in terms of the independent panel, which has come to a conclusion, which is still yet to be officially confirmed. It's the fact that Manchester City having been so defiant in the face of all of this adversity and all of these accusations, the fact that Manchester City, who through multiple statements over the course of the last few years, have doubled down, tripled down, saying, we've got irrefutable evidence that we are innocent. We are so confident that we're going to clear our name, and yet they've been found so guilty of all but one of the charges, according to reports, that's the bit that shocked me. It's almost the equivalent of Mike Mayer's being caught with 10 bodies in his backyard, the murder weapons in his house, and he can't do anything but say, it was me, hands are up, they've been caught, red handed. Who would have thought that a team that has some of the highest revenues in the world, similar to Real Madrid, have now been caught, or the fact that when they first came in, I don't know, it's between the period of early 2010s to 2018. There's a reason they're able to attract some of these players, there's a reason why they're able to get these managers in. There's a reason why some of the best salaries were getting paid at Man City, when they had no right to be doing that whatsoever. It's so obvious as day, that's why for me as a man United fan, I agree with you in the sense that 114, and I thought they would have been able to strip down to 50, at least, like give them some breathing room, but every single charge, bar one, which I'm not sure what it is yet, that has been brought to light, has evidence for clearly, or they have so much of a case behind them, that they are going to charge them, and I don't even think an appeal is going to take anything away from that. So for me, it's not a surprise in one bit. I'm really intrigued to see when this all kind of concludes what the actual sanctions are, if they could tell us the explanations for exactly why they're guilty, maybe there is a lot of confidentiality around it. But honestly, lads, I think this is as seismic as for example, the super league, because this is a Premier League champion basically of the last 10 years with an asterisk. It's English football's version of Cal Chopper, isn't it, which was the massive scandal in Italy 20 years ago with Juventus, who were the champions at the time they were found to have been matchfixing to win those titles. This is not matchfixing, but this is gaining a sporting advantage in a different way. Now, what I do need to make clear is that these charges run up to a period of 2017-18. So that's before City won the treble, that's before City won four in a row. So there's a lot of things that have happened post-2018 that don't fall under the breaches of these rules. However, there is a massive argument to be made, Marley, that City wouldn't have gone on to be as successful as they are post-2017-18, had it not been for the unfair sporting advantage that they gained financially, according to these charges, that had been put in place prior to that season. So there is the biggest can of worms, the biggest Pandora's box, where even fucking Tony Pulis, who is the manager of Stoke in 2011, who lost the FA Cup Final to Manchester City, has had his say via social media these last couple of days saying, we should have won the FA Cup because Manchester City cheated to win the FA Cup. It is an absolute minefield and this goes so deep and so far back. This is a stain on the game and whether City fans think they're innocent or guilty, I think as in material, the whole thing is a real black mark on Premier League football regardless of which way it goes. Yeah, I've been trying to sort of see where I land on this and I can't get away from the thought that the Premier League is just absolutely knackered now. What product have you got if you've got the best league in the world and 10 years of it or best part of 10 years, the best team in it has been cheating the whole way and it's sort of important to point out as well. I'm sure that a lot of clubs and I mean probably 15, 16 out of 20, certainly the rest of the big six, if you want to call them that, I'm sure that everybody bends the rules in some ways whenever they can. I think it wouldn't surprise me if Chelsea, you know, when they self-reported, how did they self-report? Why did they self-report? I reckon there was something going on where Abramovich said, by the way, you're probably best to self-report this when he handed over to Cleolec and Paul and stuff like that, but that's an argument for another time, but what I'm saying is like, you know, the Kelsey Opley thing popped into my head as well, that's the biggest thing that ever happened to be telling him football and it absolutely screwed it over. I just think the way the Premier League is now and they're so at pains to prove that they can self-regulate and they just can't, you know, this is the perfect example of it, you can't even prove at the time that a team is cheating when it looks like they've, you know, they've, it's like a Mario Kart when you're going along at a certain speed and you hit one of those arrows and you start going 200 mile an hour, that was meant just to sit it off the pitch, like when from, you know, all these deals to get all this cash flow into the club, when you see the teams trying to follow them in recent years, like Newcastle and like Aston Villa and other clubs as well, try to make that gap and get shackled by PSR and FFP or whatever you want to call it and it does point to, well, how the hell did they do it if we can't and it's, you know, it's, it's just a mess. I think it's, I actually think the Premier League might be done, you know, it might just be time to do something else and start again with a fresh set of of governing people who know what they're doing and a fresh set of almost guidelines of salary caps and things that are stringent things that work and that's a really honest and pure way to look at things, Marley, but the problem we've got in the Premier League is that the organisations that operate under the umbrella of the Premier League, I'm talking about the clubs when I use those terms, Manchester United, Manchester City Arsenal, Chelsea Liverpool and there's this argument that no one club is bigger than the Premier League. Well, why did they all collude and conspire then to break off to make more dough? That's exactly what they did with the European Super League. The Premier League, as an organisation, are effectively powerless and with respect to some of the non big six clubs like Everton and Forrest who are two big clubs in their own right, the Premier League felt like they could punish them with points deductions due to financial misdemeanors because had they been relegated, the Premier League would have survived without Everton and without Forrest. The Premier League would have survived no problem. They did the same to my team because they hit us with a points deduction. We got relegated, we weren't there problem anymore. The issue the Premier League has got is that Liverpool Arsenal, Manchester City, United, Chelsea, Tottenham, they're all such big clubs that the broadcasters wouldn't put the money in if those clubs weren't in the Premier League. Now, one of them disappearing, Manchester City, which is what could happen if they get hit with a huge points deduction, so big that they go down, might not be a big issue. The Premier League could survive with five of the big six. But if all six of them break away, like what they have threatened to do for the Super League, then the Premier League has a massive issue. And for me, the Premier League are so weak as a governing body because the power is held by all of the big clubs because they know that they are the prized assets within that organisation. They know that without them, the Premier League is nothing and that's the problem. These clubs know that they've got that power and that's what makes things really, really difficult because as I mentioned, this case is now wide open for lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. I agree with you, Marley. It's like kind of like we need to rub everything out and start again, but I just don't see how that's going to happen because it's so entrenched in the history of the game now, this situation. It's just impossible to see where you go next. But the thing is with this, we're in really unprecedented waters because I think it would have been easier for the Premier League to digest. Had they been guilty of let's say 10 charges because then it all becomes a bit more relative. The fact that it's so high, let's not forget, Everton, they would found guilty of two breaches of PSR and they got an initial 10 point ban, which was then reduced to six. 114 is the magnitude of that actually can't be put into scale because for example, what you're just talking about there with all these teams potentially launching legal cases against, I don't know whether it's the Premier League or whether it's directly to Manchester City. Remo and Carlos Tevers went to West Ham and put Sheffield United down and that caused them, I think they had to pay 20 million in compensation to Sheffield United. The same could be said for Sergio Aguero going to Man City or any player where they've received a big player, they've done offshore payments to agents to fathers to mothers to anyone and that has been the cause, the direct cause, like look at Man United for example, if this is to be true and Sergio Aguero for example was bought because of offshore payments or renumerations that we're hidden from the Premier League, well that's a problem then because that moment should never have happened. In the same way the Carlos Tevers moment should never have happened because West Ham should never have had Carlos Tevers is the exact same perspective isn't it? So how far down is the rabbit hole then because so many teams can make a case like every thing. You're right, there are so many different angles and offshoots off of this, it could potentially be never ending, it is that deep. The punishment I think is interesting because of fines not going to do a great deal because I think if there are loads of clubs that are lining up to Sue Man City Marley, I don't think a fine is going to be as damaging as 20 different clubs trying to sue them for 200 million a piece. I think that's going to be far more damaging. The points deduction is almost certainly the most likely outcome from all of this and a transfer ban. Don't know how long the transfer ban will be for but the points deduction as Joel said will be significant if Everton were docked and Forest were docked you know six to ten points for one or two breaches of the financial rules these are 115 charges not all of them financial but most of them. So we're looking at a 60 90 120 point deduction you can't demote Manchester City you can't just remove them from the Premier League because the Premier League and the EFL which look after the championship and the league below are different governing bodies if the Premier League expelled Manchester City the EFL are not obliged to accept them but what they can do is they can give them a points deduction so massive that there would be no chance that they would stay up even if they won all of their games for the rest of the season. Yeah that's true. I've just sort of taught me a there imagine if they kicked them out and did expel them and the EFL when well we don't want them either like they would have to go and sell their own league maybe this could be the sort of 2.0 version of the Super League and they went and played in Saudi for example they went and played Al Ali and they'll fucking Eti Fakki and all these all these you know part time. I don't even think that's a possibility Mali where they're just kind of floating around in the EFL for a couple of years where no one will accept them and that's the kind of punishment but then my thought is that's not fair on the Manchester City fans and it's not the fans fault that the owners have acted in this way and I've always I'm always going to have sympathy for the fans even the ones that have put blind faith in what their owners have said I still feel sorry for them because there have been questions about are those moments now tainted well this is the thing you know Joel you can joke about it being 22 times Manchester United have won the league now but you didn't get to experience that moment football's about moments it's about experiencing it then and there in the present and you can be given two extra titles but United didn't win the titles I'm going to try and play very neutrally this because it's it's a big topic as far as my heart is saying don't do it but you can't strip titles retrospectively I just don't think it's a thing you can do because how can you say for sure that man United win the league that season or how can you say for sure that someone doesn't go down like the whole stratosphere of the Premier League season changes completely you can't predict any moment or any result or any kind of up and down or Champions League football so even when a couch openly happened they never stripped them of titles but they did send them down and they made an absolute I mean you've enters went down to the lowest tier they made an absolute example of them and I think I know we'll get on to it but I just wanted to make a point of I know how we say that the drawbridge was brought up a little bit too late in the Premier League do you not think that the Premier League was always going to have this coming because in 2009 which is when the counting and the periods from that's the season when you know they got Rabinia sorry it was around the time when they got Rabinia rocket Santa Cruz they were slowly building their team weren't they Gareth Barry Elano and all of a sudden he got a fucking mention on the podcast about Man City breaking every reload of the sub and somehow got rocket Santa Cruz don't forget though don't forget he was a big transfer at that time that was like 13 million from Blackburn which is a big sign in Man City had no business being in that kind of deal there was still a there was small as hell at that point but the point I'm getting on was that at that point there was no rules there was it was all very kind of do is your please if you want to do a Saudi take over go and do it we're not going to regulate it if you want to have a Russian billionaire come in use maybe got links with Vladimir Putin go and do it we're not really too bothered then all of a sudden the money increases which means visibility increases which means they have to have a very well polished product around the world because the Americans are getting involved and what do you know there's policy everywhere and what does that mean geopolitics can't get involved now or if it does it's going to be the most stringent process for them to take over which now means that it's it's it's a really for a man city firm which I have no regard for anyone who comes to football they must they're probably not terrifying I know they're giving it this provider while we've been in the league two league one before we can do it again this is really different because you've had all your cheat and the fact that Pat Guardiola left when he did was very very suspect as well can I add the fact that he said very very unequivocally if the club are lying to me I will leave and he's gone at one year before his contract finished I mean I don't want to play I mean it's convenient isn't it it's convenient it's convenient very very convenient I would love to hear I would love to hear his thoughts right now but I don't think we're going to get them so now Morescar has got to be the face of this which is quite unfair unless he's never been told it but the the Premier League I feel like you'll always have this one yeah exactly but those in the comms department at Manchester City the one who deal with the press and the PR how do you deal with this well especially during an international break where the lottery was put lottery was put up for interview by Spain which is absolutely bonkers and the man city PR guy can't even get involved to say no questions about that you can't say that or anything and Erling Harlan was meant to be put up by Norway but the Norwegians went you know what's best to take him out of the fire in line Roberto Mancini has said well if I was on two contracts that's their fault not mine well this is where things get complicated right and they're already complicated for all of the reasons we've previously discussed how different East Manchester looks now and the redevelopment and the regeneration of that area 12 30 man jobs that have been generated by Manchester City football club because of the investment that's gone in to the area now we can discuss that being sports washing which I think is another conversation for another day but this is where things get tricky because there are people who've been given a livelihood and an opportunity by these owners who might now feel betrayed let's just say I joined an insurance company and they offered me significant sums of money I'm not asking where that money's coming from I'm saying oh there's seven figures on that contract here let me sign it I go on to win insurance broker of the year three times in a row and then I find out that the company was bringing money in fraudulently does that denigrate my achievement well if you're Roberto Mancini you sign two contracts now and you get twice as much clearly the Premier League just needs to get Roberto Mancini in a room and just say tell us what you know they are informing for the day but you see what I mean does that make my achievements invalid even though I didn't know where the money was coming from now people might say oh the football players aren't that naive they know exactly where the money's coming from at Manchester City you just got to trust in your employers it's not for me they're blind to care where I was felt no of course they're not if someone gets you 400 grand a week Marley I don't think you'd be asking where the money's coming from put it that way and let's be saying it under no circumstances tell me where this money come from because it's plausible deniability it's plausible deniability you just if I don't know where it comes from then I'm not in the wrong like if I don't know that Niles killed a person then I don't I can't be privy to the like I can't have dubbed him in so I'm innocent in this in this situation but for the record don't think Niles killed anyone unless it's with a straight doubt on a and a there weren't any straight arts last night mate I was absolutely pepper in those doubles but yeah going yeah with the like the infrastructure question I've always said and every time I go there and I will be going there next year for the oasis concerts hopefully my money can contribute to keeping the electricity on in that stadium by that point but it is a really impressive campus and I've always said god I wish man United had this kind of campus because it feels like a sports world but then when you actually question it where is it come from it in my mind the equivalent of this is literally in the case of laundering money through I don't want to call it dirty money but money that's not accounted for washing it through to make it clean and then and then calling it revenue calling it great sponsorships calling it something that it really isn't that's the basis of all of this is like the house of cards you've got a really weak foundation which is the fact that these books have been cooked and they've got evidence of that now why do you think sponsorships were so high at Man City okay they're great sports in achievements but to get it up they're all from Abu Dhabi the palette is golden marble on ground level but underneath the ground the foundation is quick sand yeah it's quick sand yeah and then the minute that gets found out all of that don't of course the the premier league are not going to come in with bulldozers into into the area of Manchester and Terry all down it is there forever and for the community it's a good thing it's it's a good area and it's a great thing to have for you Manchester but when it comes to the the foundations of it on us it has to be punished of how is this all come to be there's a reason for that and that's why I feel so sorry for Manchester City fans because they've been lied to by their owners who still in a statement from their chairman how do now Mubarak yesterday who's doubled down on the situation the Manchester City find themselves in in a letter from the chairman published on their website he said following Friday's media reporting many of you will have sent spent your evening answering questions and responding to messages from friends families and colleagues so have I here's what I said to my family the premier league process still has a long way to run and our confidence in intent in proving the club's innocence is just as strong as when this began so it is Manchester City against the world now football clubs and their fans tribalistic see it all the time you see it all the time where it happens that objectively because they're a part of something football fans can't look inward and go actually that was wrong what we did there you see it often it's their position to back their football team because that's what you do these are football fans they're not accountants they're not lawyers they're there to watch their team play football but everyone's piling in on these city fans you know are you still going to be a city fan after all this you can't just turn off being a fan of a club that's not how it works and the same questions are being thrown at you Marley when Saudi Arabia by proxy were taken over at St James's Park are you still going to support Newcastle now the Saudis are in yes because you supported Newcastle before the Saudis and you'll support Newcastle after the Saudis because it's a part of your identity and these questions that are being thrown at city fans often by the media about whether they're still going to be a fan of the club despite all of the shit that's gone down I think they're bollocks I think I think that completely misses the wider context of what's been going on yeah it's a mess it's an absolute mess um the whole the whole situation I it I'm sort of a little bit conflict as well because part of me goes so what like who who cares that how you meant to build a club if you can't if you're not allowed these days and now I live in East Manchester four or five tram stops away from the Etihad campus it's unreal they could never have done that within the parameters that were potentially like in today's parameters I mean look at Newcastle have been trying to build a training ground and find find the ground for it and find the money and the planning applications at the minute it's probably going to be 2030 before we even see ground broke so it's probably going to be 2035 2040 by the time we're at the level Manchester City on now and another sort of elite club so we can attract players that they can that's the that's the shortcut they've took and the shortcut I still firmly believe that they've took that shortcut because they've seen loopholes in the rules and they've said well this doesn't explicitly say that we can't do this so we're going to do this and then the Premier League have gone fucking it'll that's embarrassing we've got to we've got to kill them for that and then the and then the lawyers I mean that's so weak aren't they the Premier League so weak now hundreds of lawyers looking into you know fine print upon fine print upon appendixes and little side notes and it's it's now getting played out in a courtroom which any football fan can can tell you that the football isn't played in the courtroom it's played on the pitch so you know I've got lots of people I know Manchester City fans they want you know you can't erase the the memory of a goero in 2012 and you can't erase the 100-point season and the champions league and stuff like that so they're always just kind of like it still happened yeah still actually unfolded it was an event that took place you can't just rub it out of history like it never existed yeah exactly and you can't you can't give retrospective Premier League titles to clubs as much as Joel wants 22 Premier League titles and or English league titles it just can't happen I mean can anyone name anybody that was a beneficiary of Lan Sam Strong getting stripped of seven titles because he was a doping cheat like I've got for you I'd be fucking amazed if you can who like who who gets the gold medal if history doesn't remember those who finish second that's one of those old sporting cliches yeah well unless it was Newcastle in 1995 96 and we absolutely fucked it in major spectacular style but it is what it is that's another story for another podcast it depends how you finish second yeah yeah and now and now understand why Merino always said coming second to Man City during that season was his greatest ever achievement I know why now because he won the Premier League of Man United that's as much of a dig at Man United as it is a dig at Manchester City yeah no yeah yeah that was what the the camp he was in which was this squad of that yeah yeah but yeah he's got so it's so many times where he's everything he says it just fucking brilliantly and even the stuff that he like like you said there he's talking about Man United at that point but it's age to the point where it's such a great dig at Man City and I can't wait until he until he gets asked about this in a press conference I'd have fucking Real Madrid versus guitar player sometimes he's like he's like Seneca is in Merino in like a hundred two hundred years time when people look back they'd be like wow it'll have like a marble statue of Merino in like Lisbon or Porto or something where it's just got like a you know one of those robes on like a Roman emperor like the great Joseph Merino quote I see if I speak I'm big drop in two thousand years there'll be a religious book about the special one special edition like limited edition Merinoism is what it would be called every worship at the feet of the statue of Joseph so a question for you too is what punishment is actually punishment because money isn't a punishment to Man City it makes no sense I remember when they got fine is it 50 million by UEFA because of some kind of non-compliance in the Champions League when it came to squad ratio whatever the rule was I think it was in 2015 money isn't going to do anything it almost is counterproductive because you're basically banning them for the thing that they've got abundance of so you need to make a point that one you are going to like no I know you use the word weak you can't be weak but you need to implement laws that are going to set a precedent for the future they already did that when they did it with Everton and they already did that when they did it with forest those two clubs should be looking at this with real intrigue because they threw the book at them too when they probably thought was that actually just for us like to do that now Man City have got what 50 thousand percent more fines than they have let's see what the punishment is the problem comes in the fact that those Everton and forest cases were dealt with pretty quickly they were given points deductions that same season the issue here is that as Haldun al-Mabarak said in his letter to city fans the club statement on the website the Premier League process still has a long way to run now from what I've read in the media that could take another two years before we find out exactly what the Premier League's recommended punishments are city will appeal that that might push the can further down the road and it's looking like about another two years before we figure out what the situation is if this takes two years Joel for the Premier League process to reach its conclusion Manchester City they've got two years to get their shit together they've got two years to plan so how do you punish a club who have got notice they've got loads of time to get their shit together Man City will be fine Man City will be fine there's no like I don't think there's any kind of punishment I think and and McGinley the old our old boy on FSD I think he mentioned it in a telegram chat and I actually agree with him it's quite hard to punish Man City because you can't punish them monetarily because they've got an abundance of it and there's no issues with that they've got such a great infrastructure now that even if they were to go to league two their youth academies could put them to the Premier League within three years they won't even need plays and to add to that they would make money from their academy because of how valuable it is in terms of talent and at the same time because there's such a big because they've got such huge sponsorships coming from Abu Dhabi there'll still be an in record sums when they're in the championship in league one so I don't think there's any kind of issues when it comes to City I think the Premier League the Premier League basically in my opinion they have to set the precedent right now this is such a in the way in which the Super League was dealt with so swiftly where all the media were onto them and everyone said they should be out of you know how do we we need to like set the tone this is their chance now to say from now until the end of time this is the way the Premier League is going to run and you're on a strict amount of rules and you can't yeah for me personally the only way to punish them is to give them such a severe points and transfer and transfer bandied auction transfer ban and a points deduction that it takes them years to come back it's so difficult because you used Lance Armstrong as an example there Lance Armstrong's an individual so when he's found out to have been a doping cheat you just go well I don't like him anymore you can't do that with a football club you can punish them with a sporting deduction points deduction relegation whatever you can punish them in a sporting sphere what that doesn't do is change the fact that City have got hundreds of millions of fans worldwide they're not just going to disappear I don't think football works like that it doesn't work like that Manchester United have been rubbish for years by their standards and they've still got as many fans as ever because when you experience something and you're part of a group a fandom you can't just discard that that's what makes football the incredible game that it is because you feel like a part of something when your team is achieving success it's not an individual thing and I think that because of all of the things City have done no matter how severe the punishment is you're right they'll be back because they've already built the foundations of a solid fan base the world over because of their achievements fans just don't discard football clubs it doesn't work like that and I think that City have managed to sort of cast the net wide enough with their achievements that they have got loads of fans around the world which means the foundations they've built in in that sense in terms of what their club is and how significant and how big they are that's there that can't that can't be taken away even if it was achieved artificially that that can't be removed because people human beings don't just discard football clubs that's not what we do in this game if you think about it now the way I see it is and I totally agree with you on that between 2009 and 2018 no matter what punishment they get now the job's done yeah it's exactly it the job is done they can't undo what's been done yeah they've won so the same way and I know Juventus they did it through history and through winning in the Italian league but I never forget that paper segment when I was like eight years old and it had the whole Juventus team and it had a price tag on all of their heads when they went down like Cameronezi 50 million Ebra Himmivic 20 million Lilliantoram like basically a fire sale and then obviously I think it was Bufon and Del Pierre that stayed with them fair play to them even if that happened let's say the most severe thing happened to them when they went to league two because they've got such a foundation now and like you say they built their fan base the infrastructure is incredible the academy people will still send their kids to the academy regardless they've won the only the only way now you can punish Man City is by liquidating them but then but then their fans are going to have to go somewhere else so they won't like they're only the only way I mean it's not about it's not about banishing the club it's it's not about banishing them it's about punishing them I want to kind of get that straight it's not about taking them off the planet but you do have to set a set a tone you can't just turn a blind eye to this kind of thing. Rangers are not so totally different situation there because they ran out of money but they had to liquidate and start again at the bottom of Scottish football now Manchester City aren't going to liquidate like you said but having raised it on the podcast earlier on today I quite like Marley's idea of if we are going to remove Manchester City from the Premier League which I don't think can be done that's why I think we're going to see a big points deduction instead but if that was possible the EFL don't have to accept them as I mentioned before and what you said Marley about Manchester City not being able to play for a couple of seasons you know we're not going to accept you that's what the EFL might say and if they do say that then that is a huge punishment for City and their fans no football for two years that's that's seismic that's a massive punishment yeah but they would they would wouldn't they the the EFL would go of course that's exactly and that's the rule we're we're we're we're we're let's come on we could have Rob McAllenny against the Cheat in Man City or exactly what I mean that's me being naive thinking that would be the right punishment is just having City in purgatory not able to play here or there that's a real punishment take the can take football away from them entirely you know but I totally agree I think the EFL would be welcoming City with open arms saying oh yeah come and join the championship we'd love to have you back yeah so it's been too long yeah guys been since rush home days as we lost that yeah wow yeah but in terms of punished I think I think you know they can they couldn't I mean they probably can only enforce a points of deduction and the points deduction I mean if it's if it's 60 points plus which you would expect it to be why don't why don't make them centurions again make them centurions again minus 100 well the thing is like if it's if it's anything over 60 if it's anything over 60 they're going down probably right so it's irrelevant giving them 100 put let's say let's say the punishment they worked out was one point for every chance they can't risk that though they can't risk that exactly but let's say they but it would have to be more than 60 they'd have to do 112 yeah can you imagine they stayed up you know some would be so shit we seem to have to be useless recently so it wouldn't surprise me if City did stay up having to get in the kitchen how much like the city board would be laughing at the Premier League if they stayed up with six to be such a big points deduction it's impossible to stay up like more than the value of the game no pulse after it like they've got to be gone Mike Mayer's gone you can't be coming back from the dead after like 10 wounds for the stuff yeah but well 38 ironically 38 games in a Premier League season 38 times three is 114 so that's quite ironic but if it is 114 point deduction that if they won every game they still wouldn't survive they'd be on zero well you imagine the like what I'm saying is like if after 65 70 points there's no difference between 65 70 and 90 so for example like there's no point in giving them everything at once so maybe the Premier League say we'll give you a 50 point deduction for two seasons in a row but then if they went down with the 50 points deduction let's say they won 74 points and that puts them on plus 24 and that isn't enough to stay up in the Premier League then they would only get the rest of the punishment the next time they came up so they would start another season so I almost think like a staggered points deduction is perhaps best because then you're doing them out of four seasons then you get you send them down this season they're coming back then they're probably going down the season after that then they're coming back so you get rid of them for like four years at that point and you sort of put a bigger you know haul in there in their sales and like in there you take the wind out of them like that but it's it's a it's a tough one I don't even know if that can be done whether it can be staggered whether it can be split over other seasons or what maybe it's ten points a season for ten years that would be completely irrelevant but yeah it's all to be decided excuse me and this is exactly what we were saying on the pod for years and it was staring us right in the face that we said there was going to be a moment where football consumes itself from the inside out football self-destruct it implodes and Manchester City have been the orchestrators of that clearly and we're in a situation where if all of the clubs are starting to sue each other that's the position we're in maybe the most in maybe the most short term thing is that Manchester City still have Premier League football matches to play after this international break they've got Liverpool and field in their first game back that is going to be men's or I wonder what the atmosphere is going to be like there I mean I'm sure I'm sure Liverpool fans will be one of the most hurt by city success because they seem to dog walk them every single season I think they're all going to tread on eggshells a little bit because they probably don't want to get into legal implications for themselves until it's concluded but I think behind closed doors looking at some of the players that have been speaking out I saw David the Hayer talking about how many Premier League titles should he have now and I'm sure behind closed doors and in the group chats they'll be it'll be going absolutely crazy well in it in terms of the fallout of this but I can't quite remember such a seismic event literally since the Italian crisis in was it oh 605 or even but the super league was but it didn't actually come to fruition but I feel like with this because there is going to be a punishment of some kind I think everyone's kind of waiting to see what that what what hammer blow that actually is going to be for City but as far as I'm concerned throw the book at them lads it could be a blessing for club because he got beat 1.0 by Greece last night in his his second international game in charge of Germany and all the reporters won't want to talk about that that I'll be talking about the the scandals coming out of England and why rather than why Germany weren't good enough to be Greece last night yeah why don't one of the German reporters be like so what what was the thought of someone getting beat by Greece about oh have you not seen the city news questions about that so actually we've been beaten by the euro 2004 champions so come on put some respect on the Greeks name wow an episode that we knew would be coming for years since those their Spiegel hacked email leaks which basically launched this entire thing into Manchester City acting fraudulently city still claim that they're innocent but every single organisation in the media is reporting that they have been found guilty so if we are trusting the mainstream media that is the situation that we find ourselves in Manchester City say the Premier League process has still got a long time yet to run we have still yet to hear from the Premier League confirmation as to whether this has actually unfolded some city fans think that it's all lies and all bluster we'll find out in due course but we've been saying this for many many years and this will be a conversation that's off it which dominates all forms of football media it has changed the way people look at Premier League football in this country it has changed a lot and things may continue to develop and evolve and we will be there for all of the big news here on football social daily and award winning Premier League podcasts we like as much as we can to talk about the onfield stuff but this is such a huge story we will do get in the sea tomorrow i'm sure strands of this topic will appear in getting the sea tomorrow i've certainly got one but that is it for today's football social daily if you'd like the podcast and please do subscribe follow like share tell your friends about it it's a great way to help the pod grow we couldn't do the pod without you honestly it's a difficult world out there at the minute so all of your support is very much appreciated but from Joel Marley and myself that's it for today's football social daily we'll see you next time