The Post-Pep Fracture: Manchester City's Rebuild and the Premier League's New Era

This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Influences and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? Find out by searching for more than a school wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Get more with BBC Podcasts wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire and Your Dead To Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon Music subscription. Brentford Spurs, Manchester City Bournemouth, Newcastle Against Liverpool, All Gets Underwear on Friday night, with Arsenal against Coventry, and that will be the focus of the Monday Night Club Joe Hart and Adam Krafton and Chris Sutton R Withers. Have you holleredade? Holidays, yes. But are you refreshed? Yeah, yeah, I'm ready to get away from holidays. We'll add that channel there. I'm not going to have one. No, I'm ready to get away from holidays. But you've done your family time, and you're now ready to go. Yeah, yeah. Can't wait to be away from them to represent the family in a different world. Adam, have you had some time off since the World Cup? I've had some time off my family of visiting at the moment. So as with Joe, this is a very welcome couple of hours, I would say. Chris, do you use in the Monday Night Club to get away from family members? I think my family members are pleased. I was going to say it goes the other way with you, doesn't it? They encourage you to do as much work as possible. They do. Yeah, animals don't feed themselves, Mark. Yeah, that's just a clarify in my house. Sorry, Chris, just to clarify, I never said I was doing this to get out of family time. No, sorry, sorry, sorry, just to put it in my mouth. But I am. We'll try and touch on it virtually every Premier League Club. If we can, we'll use the first bit to look back on the community shield, which is a wonderful opportunity on the first one of the season to bring in over Reaction Monday, Arsenal 3 Manchester City now. Do you think Joe City will stay up? Oh, come on. I was watching the game for the first time, thinking right, I'm going to have to say something here. But no, look, well done Arsenal, played really well. They were brilliant yesterday Arsenal. City were clunky, no doubt about it. But I think it's a time Manchester City is a very realistic club. And look, it's taken on a lot of new followers and a lot of people reference that and in terms of how the clubs grown over the past 15 years and good for them for that. And you need those new fresh eyes. But you just need, you need the old school to step up now. Just keep everyone calm, keep everyone focused. They've just had 10 years of arguably the greatest coach ever doing unbelievable things in the Premier League that haven't actually been done before. So they just need a breath. If we just come to it from a fan perspective, I suppose. Or even the squad themselves, Adam, we've been around the block enough to know that when the community shield, it's a trophy and everything set up for the new season, lose the community shield and it's a friendly. Yeah, of course. And I think it'll be as you said, it feels like over Reaction Monday, it felt like over Reaction Sunday after half a game. I think with City, there's still quite incomplete as well to where actually the coach wants them to be by even kind of the end of August. So I think we'd expect them to get in maybe two more central midfielders. Obviously, Roderie now looks like he's leaving. I mean, that was the biggest concern yesterday. It wasn't really anything that happened on the pitch for Manchester City. To me, it was far more, wow, you're going to start this new post-PEP era. And you're going to do it without your best player. Maybe even the best player in the world, based on what we saw in the World Cup. So that's a pretty brave and bold decision by Man City not to dig in and kind of force Roderie to stay because with PEP leaving, Roderie, Benardo, Silver, John Stones, that's a lot of standard setters who have exited the building in one kind of in one swish. And I think if I was a Manchester City fan, that would be my concern much more than losing it to the champions in the community shield. And actually, Chris, that is something we've always praised City on, is that when a leader has gone, the next set of leaders are ready to go, or even the next person in a very similar position will step up. It has been very unusual for City to lose the number that they have done. This summer, that's before you even, before you even think about the head coach. Yeah, I think that's right. And I do agree with Adam. But having said that on the pitch, there did seem to be a gulf between the two teams. And I think City fans watching that, there would be a slight concern, because as good as Arsenal, where I thought that City were miles off it from their standards, has come in, there's no doubt the pressure is going to be on him from the off. What we do know, if Rodry does go, looks like he has gone, then replacing him is going to be nigh on impossible. And Elliot Anderson is a fine player, an excellent footballer. But if you look at the Manchester City midfield over the main piece with Pep and the experience and the quality that they had with, not just Rodry, De Bruyne, I think Fernandino was alongside Rodry in the early days, Bernardo Silver, a good one, that does seem an area of concern, where Manchester City are still good coverage, which is still a good player. Anderson, I've mentioned Ford and wasn't quite on it last season. They have Cherokee, but are these players capable of matching Arsenal and Pipping Arsenal this season? That's the big question, and I'm not so sure they are at this moment in time, but it does feel like Manchester City have got more work to do in the transfer market. I think Buabby's been linked, but he's still a young player, and Enzo Fernandes, who I think would be an excellent signing for Manchester City, but these are still left, so I think it is a wait and see for City. Yeah, I think that's true, but I think the club isn't heaping massive expectation on this season. I think they still believe that they've got the team and they've got the quality to challenge. I still feel they'll want to be pushing on all fronts, but the same sort of pressure I don't think, as an organisation, I don't think we'll be on this season, and what I mean by that is all the people that we've talked about tonight, all the names and people that have gone out of the door and aren't necessarily in the door at the moment, or established as they'd like them to be. I don't think they're going to be putting that pressure internally. Externally, there's always going to be the noise, of course there is. I'm a rescue come immediately under fire in terms of how people want to jump all over Manchester if they do struggle, but I think internally, I think they're intelligent enough as a business to understand that what's going on right now is going to be difficult. They'll have planned for it, but I don't think they would have planned for it to go immediately onto the next, looking for another treble, looking for another double at least, pushing all the way, romping the season, and dislodging Arsenal. I think they've got enough success in the bank enough, know how to understand that this Premier League is a really, really tough, tough place to be and the Champions League, so they've just got to take a breath. If it takes a rebuild, if it needs a few people to come to the forefront, then so be it, if they need another January transition. Manchester City rebuild, Joe, is second, can Manchester City the hierarchy, can the fans accept second? It's not necessarily second and accepting second, it's accepting that they're moving in the right way. Now, I know what you're saying there, Chris, and of course, I don't think the club are entitled to say that they are first or nothing if you first, you're last. I think they're very understanding, especially as to what's gone on, and enjoyed the 10 years and the version of City that they've become. Because previously, things were getting built and putting them into the position that they've got themselves into now. But I don't think they're going to be greedy enough to think that second or third or fourth, or even a difficult season is enough for them to have fallen off. They know who Maresca is, he's not in their opinion, it's not a gamble, it's someone that they trust, and they believe fits into the company and the ethos that they're building right now. The players that they're investing in are young players who can grow into it. And if their world class as it is, we're talking about all the people, the Fernandinos, the Bernardo Silvers, the Kevin De Bruyneurs. All these guys were on proven when they came to Manchester City. They were good top players that deserve to sign for Manchester City, but were they world class players that everyone was clamoring for at the time? I don't think they were. So that's why they're very good at doing that and why they've got understanding and why they're going to give the time and patience to a good solid start to the season that's showing shoots of moving in a different direction and a positive direction. There are, I suppose Adam, there are lots of clubs that could say they are rebuilding, lots of clubs in the past who've said that they are rebuilding and will have a transitional season or transitional couple of seasons. And a lot of what Joe says makes sense and managing the noise internally will probably be absolutely fine for them. The external noise, though, is going to be huge because it's not quite the older. Yeah, for sure. I genuinely don't mean this as a dig. I don't think it will be as difficult as it would be if it was Arsenal Manchester United or Liverpool because I don't think that media ecosystem around Man City is actually quite the same, you know, both in terms of the amount that is written about City, the number of ex players who are in the media from City, if you compare it to like, you know, kind of every show you tune into is there's about 40 Manchester United ex players who are on an ex-a Arsenal player. Not on this one. Not on this one. Not on this one. No, no, no, Ranting Middle-Age men here. Well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well. I mean, there is, but very. But I do think that helps City to a certain extent. It allows you to just have a little bit more space to develop equally, you know, as you say, that I think there will be, I don't think it sounds so silly, but I don't think it helps Moreska that he kind of looks so similar to Pep. So as soon as soon as they are, I mean, even physically, right, like the weight, physically, you know, how they look, there's a danger that he is seen very quickly as kind of like a diet version of Pep, the kind of Pep lie. That's the only, that's the only real thing. Who are you mixing with? Who is saying this? I don't. I don't think that's the thing for a non-vehicle. I think that's the other selling. Because he hasn't got any hair. Well, yes, to a certain extent, but, but no, far more from a, you know, tactically they play in a similar way, right? Do you agree? Yes. Yeah, right, tactically they play in a similar way. Pep, Moreska's obviously come through at the city coaching before going on to Leicester and Chelsea. So stylistically, and I think in the way that they think and talk about the game, they've gone for a carbon copy. And he has to prove that he is a worthy copy rather than a kind of pale imitation. I think that's the only risk that you kind of come out with a version that is like 60, 70% Pep rather than 100% Pep. And I think that's the, the bit which he still has to prove, but he deserves lots of time to be able to prove that. Maybe that makes more sense. So you think that because it's Manchester City, he will get an easier ride in certain quarters. I think there is a little bit less pressure at City City. I totally disagree with that. I think, and the only reason I say that when you think about David Mores going in after Alex Ferguson at Manchester United, because of Pep's success, I don't think it matters which team it was, but Manchester City have been the most successful club in recent times. So going in after Pep, I mean, that's a fair play to him for taking the job. That's a hospital pass. So in, you know, in many respects, if he doesn't get it right. Rodgers' future has been a matter of discussion since he virtually lifted the World Cup. And maybe even a little bit before. Now, I realise that I am World Cup summers, maybe things move a little bit more slightly with players going on holiday a bit later and so on and so forth. But for a club who have always, and I know they have a different director of football now, but I've always seemed quite well advanced in their planning and who replaces who as we touched on earlier. Are you surprised that with a new manager in charge as well, around the community shield on the eve of the new season, they've got themselves into this situation where Rodry only goes now. A little bit, but I think I think they would have planned for Rodry to go. Right. I think he didn't have a great season last season and that's no slight on Rodry. I think I've never been through what he's been through in terms of an injury. But I think I don't think anyone expected. I think Pep Guardiola was even even quoted in saying he didn't expect him to have the season that necessarily won in the ball and they won the Champions League, but he knew it was coming, but it wasn't proven yet. So even though Rodry's a proven player, like I say, on a ball and door winner, he wasn't that player after this knee operation, after this knee injury. And there was no guarantee that he was going to get back to the level. It just happened to coincide with him getting towards the end of the season and being in that Spanish team that it looked like his fitness was there. It looks like his mental sharpness was there. And that's, you know, credit to Manchester City, credit to the medical staff, and credit to Rodry for getting himself back to that level. But I still think Manchester City, because it wasn't guaranteed, I think they're very good at contingency plans and they've proven that. And that's why maybe it looks a little bit messy now because it looks like he's going to go. But I think they would have planned to fill that void and that's where potentially Ellie Anderson would have come in and they would have had other ideas. But I think the moment that he caught either way, I thought I felt like they would have planned to move him on. If it is Anderson and Buaddi, and possibly Enzo Fernandez as well, and then you throw in Foden, you wonder how they may use Nicoa Riley. Is that, does that work as midfield options, Chris? Well, Rodry's irreplaceable for them, but you know, Joe's mentioned and I mentioned earlier, you know, that the experienced quality players who've managed to sit the have had in, you know, in recent times, you know, the likes of DeBroinder and Gundawun and Bernardo Silver, you know, these players just aren't at that level. Yeah, Fillion didn't turn up last season. Buabdi, 18 years old, talented player as he is, you know, would be a massive gamble. You sort of, whatever Joe says about Rodry this last season and since he's come back from, you know, the injury, he has still been an absolute rock for Manchester City. And whoever comes in isn't going to replace Rodry. Everybody knows that, but it's about, it's about, you know, players coming in, hitting the ground running and, you know, trying to push Arsenal as close as a city can. Does it help Adam that Elliot Anderson doesn't look like Rodry? Sorry, I couldn't, I could have resisted this harder to tactical analysis that we do some time. I'm actually on the other side with that, but I just couldn't, I could have resisted. Did they give themselves enough options with those midfield combinations and look, who knows whether they'll manage to get Fernandez as well? But does that work for you? Yeah, to me Anderson is still more of a box-to-box player than Rodry. I think at the age that he is, I think he's probably maybe two or three years away from being able to master that six-roll. I see him more as a number eight. I think even, you know, when I first saw him play at Newcastle, he was even more of an attacking midfielder. Yeah, it was, and so on a winner at times, actually. Yeah, and actually he put a great ball in for Harland yesterday from that kind of de Broinner position where he used to whip in those crosses. So that's what I do wonder is who is that guy who basically just patrols in the way that Rodry did. I think that is such an important position for that Pepe Mereska style system. Well, four, three, three, you need someone who is well classed. And even if you remember Rodry when he first came to City, it took him a year and a half really to actually be able to cope with the demands of that position physically in the Premier League. So that's the bit I'd worry about if I was City. I think they've got no shortage of players who can shut all and who can create, but just sitting is more difficult. Adam Kraft and Joe Hart, Chris Sutton on the Monday night club, Joe won the Premier League in 2011-2012, finished second the following season, won the Premier League in 2013-14, finished second the following season. No, I was wondering, Chris won the Premier League in 1994-95, finished seventh the following season. What is it about defending a Premier League title that is so difficult, Chris? Well, at Blackburn, we changed manager. I think that in terms of recruitment, and if you've started to think about leaving to go to other clubs, what was that? Yeah, maybe. I don't know, I don't know which people you're thinking about, but maybe one or two of the players were thinking about that when Kenny Douglas stepped down. But I think what Arsenal have done well, albeit they haven't gone mad, is the players coming off the bench for Arsenal. It's ridiculous. Declan Rice coming on, you know. Supermandy. That sack of superman. I mean, they're strengthened. That's where I just think they really do look like they're going to take some beating. It is one game and we shouldn't get carried away, but it was mightily impressive. Yeah, I just think on what you were talking about, Chap, is about me reflecting on my career, especially after we won that first Premier League. It was obviously, and Chris was the same first Premier League for Blackburn. It was the first Premier League for Manchester City. It really felt like we arrived. And looking back now, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think all of us manager included, I think we all believe that that was us now. And we didn't only have to turn up, because that will be naive to even think that we thought like that, because you realise how hard it is and how every game is so important. But it felt like smashing through that door was enough. And then we got a real hit of reality. I think Manchester United, obviously, beating them while Sir Alex was still in charge. And he, you know, here and how he spoke after that game in Sunderland when he just told the boys to remember. And I think he almost made it his, for everything that he achieved in his career, he was not leaving without a title. And we let our guard down as smidge. I'm saying we still train hard. We still work hard. We make good signings. We turned up to every game to show exactly what we were capable of. But we let our guard down, because we started well as well. We let our guard down tiny bit. And I can only speak from experience. I was walking on water at that time. I actually thought I was that guy. And football finds a way really quickly of showing you that you're not. And when things started to unravel, which they will in any season, it seemed to really unravel because all of a sudden that kind of champion scrutiny that the boys were talking about before. And it's really important how Arsenal are going to handle that. But Michaela Tetis done a brilliant job. And he makes really big decisions and bold decisions. And it's about how you handle that first. It's ironic that you get into the top is the easy thing. It really is. And then to stay there with everyone else pushing and prodding and finding different ways of getting at you and someone's not getting the game time. So then they'll focus on them rather than focusing on the guy who's actually playing the game. And often we found in our squad, it went from being about us as a brilliant football team to how someone's face was on the bench when they weren't getting 20 minutes here or 15 minutes here or when someone scored. And then that just kind of eats up and you're all of a sudden aren't quite ready for it. So it's really interesting how Arsenal are going to handle that. And that's what my experience, my first experience of losing the title. And then we got a fresh and up new manager in one league again. And then again, same sort of thing happened. And then that was the end of my story with Manchester City. And I was never a part of a retaining it, but Chris, up at Celtic, that was why when I got that chance to win a league and go again, I had a different mindset on it. And Arsenal are new champions. They're new champions like a lot of us were. So there's a lot more than football going into it, but they they totally understand that and they totally know what's coming their way, but it would be interesting to see how it plays out. Where Adam, and I know this is one of Chris's former clubs, so I'll bring him in after this. What do you think the ceiling is for Chelsea this season? I was going to say that doesn't narrow it down very much when you were saying it was one of Chris's former champions trying to guess which one it would be. Sealing for Chelsea, I mean Chelsea, if you look at their starting lineup, their best starting lineup and if they keep players fit and they aren't sort of and they don't go too far in cup competitions, you know, I think they would have a chance of being in in in contention by by spring, I would say. I'm not sure they'd win here, but I think they should, you know, you look at that starting eleven and it's it's a team that is I think probably good enough, but we just don't know yet what how they're going to set up and what the connection's going to be right between the players and the coach and how patient the club will be with the coach, you know, all those things that we've seen at Chelsea over the last few years, but just if you look at the set of players, I think there'll be a lot of Chelsea fans who are quite sort of quietly optimistic that they might be able to challenge if not win the league. Do you want me to give you some numbers Chris? Yeah, why not? Yeah, so good. Okay, some a bit more enthusiastic next time then. Right, so a decade ago Chelsea finished 10th, they hired a new manager and won the Premier League the following season. Last season they finished 10th and they hired a new manager. The manager that they hired a decade ago, Antonio Conte, likes to play a three-man defence, Xavier Lonzo likes to play a three-man defence. They had nearly identical seasons to Chelsea in 2014 and last season. Same goal difference finished with two more points last season, both times they finished 10th. Xavier Lonzo is taking over a side that won 14 games last season. When he took over by a lavercuse and they'd won 14 games the previous season and he took them to the title. Do all of those numbers and coincidences make you think Chelsea will win the title? No, thanks for right, let's move. No, I mean, one of the biggest things. Do you not like all those similarities? I think that you put them together brilliantly, but I think if you looked at the Chelsea team and the quality of players and while the Chelsea team under Lonzo is pretty good, I think if you went back to the Conte team, you know, Canter, Matich, Edden Hazard, Gary K. Hill, Fabregas, Aspola Quetta, Courtois in goal. I mean, they are different level with the greatest respect to this... It's still a better check, actually. Did that squad? Well, there you go as well. So, you know, you are talking different level. Can this Chelsea squad compete with Arsenal and Manchester City? What they have massively in their favour is, you know, no European football, you know, that's going to really benefit them. It benefited Manchester United last season. So that will have a major impact. I think Chelsea will finish top four, just solely because of that. I think that they are really quite a strange... Oh, they have been a strange club since Todd Bowley went in and, you know, the league finishes 12, 6, 4th and 10th and they, you know, they are more of a development club, but interesting that they've got the likes of Danny Welbeck in now and Jordan Henderson. You know, that's... It's just, you know, they've gone from development to sort of a dad's army in some respect and these guys trying to control the dressing room and have that influence, but I still don't think that they are good enough to win the Premier League, but the advantage they have resting the players week in and week out when other clubs have the trials and tribulations of European football, that's a massive, massive advantage. And that is the biggest difference that Chris has highlighted today. You go back to that squad a decade ago, Czech and K-Hill and Aspila Quetta and Fabric Gas and Azard and Drogbur and Diego Costa. That's a lot more than Danny Welbeck and Jordan Henderson. I don't mean that in football in time, just mean in terms of experience and being there and done that. I do remember actually now that Drogbur memory of Gary Kale talking about Konsei coming in and a Konsei coming into a Premier League team like Chelsea who are in Europe. I think the fact that he had so much, he said they were so well drilled, he was so intense in what they need. They almost had NFL playbooks and it allowed them the time to build into the season. So that's a massive advantage for someone like a Shavi Alonzo who's obviously got his way of playing and have his time on the grass with his players. So I think that's a really, really interesting point and a good point when you talk about their ceiling. Their ceiling is of course to be in amongst it. I think it is. And they've got a really great opportunity. I think the Welbeck and the Jordan Henderson are smart signings. I think if they're coming in with the... Surprising signings, Joe? Massively, especially Chris, when we look at how Chelsea have built their model and how stubborn they've been with their model in terms of just axing people left, right, and centre. Is that an admission that they got it wrong then? Ah, I think it's yeah. I think it is. I don't think they're ever going to word it like that. Ali, I think they're going to say they're learning on the job and understanding a little bit more about the Premier League and what it takes. I don't think they're really careful and clever people they've brought into the squad because they're both more than capable. They're not just older Premier League players like Danny Welbeck scored. A lot of big goals for Brighton last year and look sharp and look fit. Jordan Henderson, when he eventually got his feet under the table at Brentford, still was a top centre mid with so much experience, so much drive, so much endeavour. So I'm sure they've signed them for their footballing capabilities, but there would have been some really important conversations between themselves in Chavillonzo and the football club on how they can implement what they're trying to bring to the club. They're not token signings, they're massive signings. Not quite like a Roger's signing, of course. That's a different kind of signing in terms of what he wants to bring to the club, but just having that little bit of understanding of what the Premier League means and that stability in that foundation, I think they can be really, really important. Who do you think will finish half, Spurs or Chelsea Chris? Chelsea will finish hard and Spurs. I'm pretty certain of that. Yeah. Okay. What do you think? I've got Chelsea third. I mean, you've done a whole table, haven't you? Yeah, I have done a whole table. Go on, then. Do it now, then. Well, I've got like two absolutely sure-fire things, certainties and that what Arsenal will win the Premier League and Manchester City will finish second, certain of that and Hall will finish bottom and Ipswich will finish second bottom and the rest I'm sort of a bit unsure about in truth because of sort of Chelsea Spurs, no European football, Liverpool, a week ago. The players could only run for 30 minutes. I hope they've had a good week straining and maybe if they've sort of up the levels there, I think they're going to finish fourth Manchester United, Europe, they're going to finish sixth, Estonville seventh and then you look down, it could be, it could be anything from from there on in because of all the new managers who have who have taken over. I worry for Fulham, they've got this link, I'll below a real Madrid young player coming in but lost Harry Wilson and him and I could go on and on and on but yeah, that's it. That's it in this at a basic format. I mean, no, well, that's not the basic format, normally I would have thought when asked to give a table out, you would just read it from first to last but you sort of went first second 19th 20th and then seventh. I mean, that's yeah, okay, well I'll go Arsenal Man City, Chelsea Liverpool, Spurs 5th. I think they've signed pretty well. Manchester United 6th, Villa 7th, Brentford 8th, Everton 9th, Sunderland 10th, the team I supported as a kid, Nottingham Forest 11th, a little bit of heart in there. Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, they're a youth development team now, Leeds United signed a reasonable goalkeeper. So they're 15th, are they? Yeah, yeah, but I think if they stay up again, that's a good season. Crystal Palace, got still got some decent forwards there, Fulham, I'm worried about, I've got Coventry in 18th, Ipswich 19th and Hull, sadly 20th, they lost 15 games last season and it's going to be really tough for them to come up and stand there for me, that's just the way it is. Hull's assistant head coach Dean Holden will join us as long as he isn't listening, that this is precise. No one listens, don't worry, chapter. Well, just on that, Ruth, I'm listening and I love the programme and I think Steve has switched off, you had close to 30 minutes on just Arsenal and City, he said you were going to cover all clubs, not to cut in Hell's chance, you do this all the time, making promises that you'd ever keep. Influences and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? Find out by searching for more than a school wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Five Likes Sports. So here's the first ball of this season. All the cricket units are safe, Robby W, and lives on BBC Sounds. Fast, straight back down the ground, this girl. A ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball-figgin and it's the huge one. Two swish, settle down, settle down, settle down. Cricket on Five Likes Sports. Oh, living in every ball. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman on the football daily podcast. Let's talk, Hulk, who start their first season back in the Premier League in 10 years at home. Two Manchester United on Saturday, lunchtime, assistant head coach Dean Holden, a regular on the Monday Night Club, joins us now. Evening, how are you? Good evening, Chapman. Have you managed to have any holiday? Is it since the playoff? Has it just been constant work? We had a couple of early ones. A bit of a mini-midlife crisis took me two older sons to with beef, so that was a bit of an excuse to do whatever lads are, if so. God. We went up on the Sunday, actually, so she obviously didn't trust us much. The old dad probably grained some up since the, it's got really, really real since the, since the fixtures came out, Chapman, as soon as the fixtures come out, that was like, okay, gold time, so yeah, we're ready. How difficult has the summer been in terms of bringing players in? Because, obviously, the first thing that people say, you're a bit behind because you go up through the playoffs, so other clubs maybe get a march on you. But let's not forget the last season, you're operating under a transfer and bargo as well. So, there's quite a lot there to unpack when you're then looking to bringing players this summer. Yeah, talking to Sergei this afternoon, he said it was probably a bit easier last year, because you know what you've got to work with. We obviously had a plan to try to attack the league and try and finish his as we could, and this time to our months ago, we're probably everybody's favourites. We certainly were with the bookmakers to maybe go down to league one, so that'll be the case this year. So we've proved the doubt was wrong. We'll aim to do that again. We've actually, in certainly in the last week or so, brought in some real high caliber of signings in terms of real good players. There's a lot of young potential there. We're still looking for a bit more friendly they get experience and hoping that'll come before the window shoots. I mean, the other part of all of this, isn't it, when you're looking at how you balance this, when you come up in the way that that whole did is, that Sunderland came up and brought in an awful lot of players and threw an awful lot of money at it. If you look at Ipsuite, the last time they came up, they also spent a fair bit of money, but they went with, not for off like a championship all-stars recruitment policy then, so that they were strong if they did go down to maybe come back up. There's no right or wrong way to do it, maybe. No, we're very, very grateful for Ajahn, our own. I'm sure the Premier League can't wait to get to know him. The guys in the championship certainly knew what he was about last year. He's very front and center. It's his money, puts his hand in his pocket. We're not reliant on money coming from pension schemes and all these types of finance companies. We've very much got a guy in charge in Lovesport City who wants to do the best for the club, so he's trying to spend it as wisely as he can and who can blame him. We've brought in some real high caliber of a young player, I think, as I say. We do probably need a little bit more Premier League experience. We've also got a really good group from last season that got us over the line of that experiencing. You want to realise and then tap into that as well. You think about John Egan, all of them at Bernie, these guys who literally call the captain, who helped us get over the line, so I've been loyal to him. Yeah, for sure. You've obviously got to add to it. The Premier League is a different base. I'm sure the guys will completely green. You obviously have to add the quality to go along with that, but at the same time, what's got us there? What is it that got us over the line last season? Finding that balance is probably the hardest thing to do. I know in the past that Dashie did it at Bernie and Chris did it at Sheffield Act in that first season. You stuck with the players that got them up and they'll be needed this year for sure. Do the success stories of Sunderland and Leeds, do they give you sort of great hope and inspiration as a squad? Because of the way you came up through the playoffs last season, what is the sort of mentality? I wouldn't think it was a free hit mentality, but do you think the pressure is on or off because people do expect hold to struggle? Yeah, I think Chris Sunderland and Leeds last year, but the trend in terms of certainly the last few years clubs that have come up and gone down again, so that gives club club cycles hope. At the same time, we know what it takes to stay in the Premier League in terms of a point, Sally in terms of family clean sheets. You're trying to get in all the sort of facts and data around that. So, Man United at home is not going to decide our season. Does certain games within there will be absolutely tagging three points in other games, certainly away from home where you're going to try and do your best and stick in again and maybe make a point away from home. So, I think the biggest thing for us, looking at Sunderland last year, they got points on the board early and I think that gave certainly the fan base and the players and the staff a lot of confidence in for us. If we do have a defeat or two, which can happen to even the best clubs in this division, as we know, it's making sure that the confidence is not dented too much and we navigate the bumps in the road knowing that as long as we stick to the plan and as long as we stick to the points, Sally, that we've got in mind that we can survive and being able to survive in the first season of Premier League is obviously the hardest thing to know. That's our aim, but knowing that there will be some pain along the way and a couple of really difficult weekends and what making sure as I say that you almost put it to the back in mind and then focus on the next game. When you're looking at your recruitment this summer, one of the things that we saw lead in particular due last summer was go very physical, tall, strong players, largely from kind of European as well. I was curious, is the physicality of the Premier League the priority when you're recruiting or are there other things in particular that you're looking at from a profile point of view? If you're trying to find the perfect player that's technically excellent, there's got power, there's got pace, I think he's probably competing at the top end of the Premier League, so we've obviously got, I think anybody that's seen us play last year, you talk about a team that sort of lives by the manager's personality and you certainly saw that Sergei, I talked to him as you briefly, but Sergei I think the media will fall in love with is a straight to the point, he's very old school, a little bit like big son that we'll be back in the day and day she's very straight to the point, there's no airs and graces with him and he likes his team to play like that, he likes his team to play on the front foot, he likes his team to play vertical, he wants us to play forward and run forward and run for the show and win the jewels, and everything that the top teams do, but maybe the sort of gets lost a little bit because of their philosophy in there, sort of maybe possession-based style, so you certainly won't see us having possession in and around our box and trying to find ways to make 20 and 30 passes, it will a little bit without comparing, a little bit like Eurei older at Bournemouth, it's very much the football that we grew up loving that was getting the ball forward and trying to get the ball in the box and crossing it and trying to have waves of attack, so. Dean, thank you very much, coming on, talk to you guys a season, Dean Holden, whole assistant manager with us, commentary and Ipswich, the other two who have come up, Ipswich, and I think this may surprise a few people at them because this definitely has gone under the radar, they are the Premier League's fourth biggest net spenders so far this summer, behind only Chelsea Spurs and Arsenal. Chris will tell you all the players that they've signed, go on Chris. Well they've signed a fair few, days of minor they've signed from Celtic, Sassaloukich you actually think is a decent signing, Fatterworth from Leicester, ESA Diop from Fulham, who was on the periphery last season, the Worry for Ipswich, and I've got a few Ipswich town supporting friends, Ipswich came up last season and they didn't play particularly well, and then you see Kieran McKenna make the decision to leave Alarmbells of ringing, you know, with that, was it a good time for him to step away from it? I think so, he probably knew it was going to be a real challenge for Ipswich to stay in the Premier League because it always is, for newly promoted clubs, Gary O'Neill has come in and he's, you know, a lot of change in terms of players coming in, it's about how they sit and knit together and, you know, they've spent a lot, I like the ambition of the club, they had the ambition the last time, Ipswich came up to the Premier League with, they found it incredibly difficult and it will be the same again for them and it will be tough, but at least they have given it a go, but you know, I think that they are a team, you know, which will struggle, and that's not me being disrespectful, that's not because I live in Norfolk, which is a nicer place to live than Suffolk, Suffolk has, you know, has a lot of lovely places, but I prefer Norfolk, but, you know, I'd like, honestly, I'd like to see Ipswich stay up, but I think it'll be really difficult for them. Chris, how do you think Dazan Mayerdo will do? I think he'll do fine, I mean, because, you know, we both know his strengths, Joe, and I don't think that this Ipswich team will be good enough to necessarily dominate, you know, most of the teams in the Premier League, and if they're playing counterattack, I don't think that there are many better players than Dazan Mayer in terms of his, you know, his pace in behind, that is his game, they may be a little bit frustrated with his finishing, or if he's playing off the left, his final ball, but, you know, he has some incredible attributes, and certainly in terms of the way he, you know, he shuts down players and whatever in the energy he can bring to the team. I think it's a really, you know, really smart signing from them, and, you know, disappointed from Celtics point of view that they sold him before the Champions League game, you know, in midweek, I think Celtics should have held on to him, but I think Ipswich has got a good player. Gary O'Neill obviously has Premier League experiences and manager, as does Frank Lampard, with commentary who are back in the top flight after 25 years, and yet actually with their squad Adam, which is slightly different to how other teams have gone, only seven of their squad actually have Premier League experience. I think Lampard's probably looking at it and seeing a team that was very dominant last season in the Champions League. So many attacking options they had last season. Yeah, and I think that he will be looking at it and thinking that maybe they can use that momentum of what they had last year, a bit like when Bournemouth came up that first time with Eddie Howe, and as we were just saying with Dean, there isn't really a right or wrong way to do it, and, you know, if God forbid it goes wrong for them, it also means they won't have necessarily overspent when they, if they were to go down, they can rebuild again, but they won't want to be looking at it like that, and I'm sure Frank Lampard certainly won't want that on his CV either, so I would expect them to do a bit more though before it closes. I expect all these teams to do a little bit more because these promoted clubs get offered so many players, I think probably even more so than other parts of the Premier League because I think agents know that particularly if they start with a couple of defeats that they are kind of vulnerable to taking risks on players. Aston Villa next, so they are set to sign Villa, the Japanese number ones, they are Suzuki from Palmer, and it looked like Martinez was going to go to Juventus, although that move is now off, so that would look at the moment as if Villa have got two starting keepers, unless they keep trying to offload Martinez. You don't have two starting keepers Mark, only one. Two options to start. Top, top, well, you get us out of this on Chapters because I don't want to say. Well, what would you do in this situation? If I was still giggling to himself, if you are Una Emry, would you want to move Martinez on if you're bringing in Suzuki? I think it's more a Romero position in four. I don't think it's necessarily him wanting to move Emmy Martinez on. I think Martinez might have been looking to move on. I think he genuinely does love Aston Villa. I think he's loved all his time there before anyone gets and see about what I'm saying, but I think he's been looking to potentially move on. I think he obviously looked last season. It didn't happen. He's the kind of guy that whatever shirt he's wearing, he's fully committed to when it comes to training, when it comes to playing, but from a business point of view, whilst his transfer windows open, I think he's assessing his options. Now from a business point of view, Una Emry, heard that last season. He's heard it again, this season. He's heard the noises. He knows what goes on in the background, so he has to put Aston Villa first. So that is why he would have been having these conversations. I think there would have been conversations with James Trafford. I think that would have been a brilliant move, not that leads isn't a great move for James Trafford, but now moving on to coming towards the end of this transfer window, the kind of Juventus talks. Where does he go? Who takes him? I think he's got to put Aston Villa first. And if that is an option, he's a top goalie. Now if you end up having to have both of them, then so be it. You know, Suzuki's someone who could potentially play number two. Do you move someone on? Do you play Martina's? I think you play Martina's. I think he deserves to be number one, but I think you've got to have that contingency plan. And Una Emry's got to put Aston Villa first, and he's got to have himself, someone ready to come and play in the Premier League, if Martina's moves on. Sunderland, Everton, Palace, Fullham. Out of those four, who would you worry about most? Who would you think might struggle a bit more compared to last season and why? Sunderland had an incredible season. And I think they deserve so much credit. They came in relatively unknown, signings. I think everything they did last season seemed to come off. So I think when you look at Palace, I don't really know where they're going. It's so strange that they've made massive, massive strides going forward, but they're still a massive unknown. Obviously they've got Europa League football, they've off the back of the best trophy run at the top end that they've been on. And the signings just don't feel like they're matching up, but that happened last year, and they still managed to kick on. So they've got some real resolve in the squad. Everton always seemed like they're on the cusp of doing something special, but also could be sliding. And Fullham, as Chris touched on earlier, I think with Arba Loa, is a relatively unknown. I don't think he would have been even considered for a Premier League job, and he took over, obviously, at Madrid last season after Xavier Lanzar. And didn't really do anything, but it's a massive club to take over as your first senior club. Was it his first senior club? He was managing the beat in the previous. So he's relatively unproven, and they're looking to bring some young players in. So in answer to that, I've got absolutely no idea. So I've just waffled a little bit. Yeah, but you've highlighted issues with all of them, I suppose. I wonder whether with Fullham, maybe Adam, we will only, I'm not saying Fullham fans this, but maybe neutrals, maybe people who don't spend that much time looking at Fullham will only now realise the job that Marco Silva did. I wonder, and that's nothing against Arba Loa. But Fullham could be exciting, whereas though the others haven't really done anything to kind of warrant that. In the summer. Yeah, I know what you mean by that, because I sort of look at evidence, translating down, I think, well, I sort of quite like, well, you know, Hayden Hackney was, I think he was championship player of the year. Well, it wasn't the last season. So that's solid David Moise. It's solid David Moise. Tyree George, yeah, maybe Christian Norguards are kind of sensible to Sunny. You feel like Brennan Johnson probably has a few people to prove things to. So maybe David Moise would be great with him, a bit like Jack Greenlich at the start of it. But then do they need more, Adam? I don't know, and that's the thing with all of these. You know, Sunderland signed loads last season, just brought in Thomas Muneo this season. Christopher Palace have a new man. There are lots of, oh, it could go either way. And there's still three weeks to go. So that, you know, a lot of this, well, maybe even, no, not three weeks, what are we? Two and a half weeks. It's nearly three weeks. Nearly three weeks of the transfer window left. Yeah, I know what you mean, but this is why we have the season chapters so that it can play out. That's very true, Adam. I mean, very philosophical view on it. And then we get to find out. Sunderland is probably the one I'd worry about the most with the European football coming in. I think there were periods of last season. It was kind of, was it maybe like January to March where they sort of started to fall away a little bit, and then they picked up against towards the end of the season. I think they will probably need more depth of quality, I would say. They would worry me a bit. The one we've not mentioned that I think I spent a bit of time around in preseason was leads. And I think they could have a really good season. With what they've added, they've added a really good goalkeeper. They've signed Maharema Vich, this Bosnian defender, for about 35 million who looks really good, young, hungry, insomalan and Juventus were looking at him. They beat them to that. And Harry Wilson on a three from follow seems like an incredible piece of business as well. And I think if they can just get one more forward, so they've got cover, if Calvert added to play with Calvert Lewin, I think they could really kick on. So you can clip that up when they go down and send them up as time. That's a positive Chris. Yeah. And I think with regards to full I think that they could be in a bit above that. I think Harry Wilson was so big for them last season and him and his sort of leading the line for them. And they've just, the players, they've brought a couple of young players in from from Real Madrid. They haven't played a lot of football. It could work out. You know, it could be brilliant from Harpalur, but I think there's a sort of fantasy element about Fullham. And you mentioned him, Mark. The job which Marko Silver did it for them. They are they're really big shoes to fill for for Harpalur. And he always punched above his weight and he always said that they always lost a big player over the summer, but they always managed to go again. I think it'll be difficult for for fullham. I get what Adam saying about Sunderland, but I think Sunderland are a team they recruited brilliantly last season. I think that they'll be absolutely fine. They will find a way. It's just they will be stretched in Europe. I think Everton, the quality, I think Brennan Johnson can be frustrating at time, but he has that pace to stretch back lines. They've lost the, I say, lost Grelish. Grelish was was great for them. They've got to use Bri Hall, who's a wonderful player. Hayden Hackney coming in. I think Everton will just be fine. David Moise will find a way. I think, you know, Tiano, Barry, another year, Ron. I actually thought at times it drive you mad at times, but then he, in certain games, he was a real handful. So I think Everton Moise will be really organised. And Crystal Palace, they're really odd, because just Joe said that they've barely done any business over the summer, but then you just look at the firepower which they have strained last. I think Metetta is still there unless I'm mistaken. It's my less, I'm thinking they're a real handful. There are some clubs that we haven't mentioned here. When I talk about the underachievers, would you have put Newcastle? Oh, teams with the potential to underachieve compared to last year. Potential to underachieve. Would possibility of underachieving. Stop marking my word, all that. Would you put Newcastle in there, Chris? Yeah. I mean, they've had the heart ripped out of the team, haven't they? Tanali and losing Bruno. It's enormous. Anthony Gordon gone. And then the players, the players that they've brought in, I can't remember the guy from Iaxe who looks to be a decent player, but they have changed the way, in my opinion, the way that the club is run, in that they want to go down a different route by young and develop. I just wonder how Newcastle fans feel about that. And then they've got this manager in Mattias. Yes, Alyssa. Is that a new pronounces his name? It's young and he's young and he's exciting. I had a lot of time for Eddie Howard. I think he did a brilliant job there and very, very difficult to come in when the club is going down a different route and big players who they've relied on in previous years to really drive the club forward on the pitch have gone. So I think it's going to be really, really difficult for Newcastle. It just seems that they are, they are lowering expectations with every set of well, certainly this last season in the way that they've done the business over the summer. Yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to see what they plan on getting out of the season, even moves like human trivia, changing the goalkeeper position. It's massive. As Chris said, like really ripping the heart out of the club, Eddie Howard feeling like he couldn't, didn't think he could go on in that position. Again, a little glass half full. It's an opportunity for them to go again with this fresh young kind of talent. I think the fans are going to have to, but they're going to have to really get over to the fans what their plans are. They're really going to have to in that city get Newcastle united to understand what they're trying to do and get them on board with it because there's no doubt that it's going to be difficult. There's going to be a little bit clunky to start with, potentially for a little while, but I think what's so important in that stadium and to be a Newcastle player and fan is to understand what they're trying to achieve. From the outside, I'm obviously not a Newcastle fan. I don't live in the city. I'm struggling to work out, but like I say, it's not about me. It's about that city understanding it so they can get behind it because that stadium can go two ways, and we all know that. Joe, lovely to see you. Adam, Chris, thank you as well. Steve, you were right. We didn't cover every single club, so yes, again, I've made a promise that I couldn't have kept. This goes beyond what the KGB did back in the days. Conspiracy theories and the football world cup is there ever one without the other? Well, I've been digging into one of the very best back in 1994. Yeah, from Iraq, it's a red coat for a dubious tackle. I'm James Montague, and from BBC Five Live, this is Sport Strange's Crimes Presents Shadows on the Pitch. Listen on BBC Sounds. Influencers and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? Find out by searching for more on the school wherever you get your BBC podcasts.