🎙️ Tifo Football Podcast
•August 12, 2026
•⏱️ 1h 16m
How will Liverpool and Spurs do this season? And who will finish in the top 5?
🎧 Listen to Original Episode →1. Executive Overview: Core Theses & Key Revelations
The latest edition of the Tifo Football Podcast serves as a definitive milestone in contemporary football discourse, recording an explicit acknowledgment by elite analysts that the structural paradigm governing English football for the past decade has fundamentally collapsed. Hosted by Joe Devine alongside The Tactical Analyst John McKenzie and The Athletic’s Deputy News Editor Dan Kilpatrick, the conversation moves past superficial season predictions to diagnose a profound macroeconomic and tactical transformation across the Premier League landscape.
At the center of this broadcast are three core analytical theses that define the modern game’s trajectory. First, the panellists articulate the structural end of what Devine terms the "Pep Guardiola consensus"—the long-standing tactical hegemony wherein high-volume positional possession guaranteed table dominance. In its place, the league has entered an era of severe competitive compression. Point differentials between upper-echelon title contenders and mid-table outfits have tightened dramatically, creating an volatile environment where teams outside the elite upper crust can realistically finish anywhere between 3rd and 10th position.
Second, the panel dissects Liverpool Football Club’s high-risk institutional pivot following massive off-field and on-field departures. With Chief Executive of Football Michael Edwards stepping down and talismanic forward Mohamed Salah departing for Trabzonspor in the Turkish Süper Lig, Liverpool have handed the tactical reins to former Bournemouth manager Andoni Iraola. As McKenzie highlights, Iraola brings a disruptive out-of-possession philosophy designed to control matches without the ball. However, implementing this intense pressing paradigm within a squad accustomed to positional control carries severe friction—mirrored by Liverpool's high-stakes, £145 million transfer pursuit of Paris Saint-Germain winger Bradley Barcola to repair their depleted attacking line.
Third, the conversation evaluates Tottenham Hotspur under the stewardship of Roberto De Zerbi. De Zerbi’s return to the Premier League introduces a contrasting tactical model based on low-build-up press-baiting, extreme midfield fluidity, and the rapid integration of young profiles such as Swedish midfielder Lucas Bergvall. Yet, as the panel notes, this high-wire style exposes fundamental questions regarding squad depth, central midfield density, and the defensive isolation of recovery defenders like Micky van de Ven.
| Analytical Vector | Liverpool FC (Andoni Iraola) | Tottenham Hotspur (Roberto De Zerbi) |
|---|---|---|
| Core Tactical Philosophy | Out-of-possession control, aggressive pressing triggers, transition destabilization. | In-possession press baiting, vertical third-man combinations, low-build-up risks. |
| Executive & Squad Context | Post-Michael Edwards executive vacancy; post-Mohamed Salah roster restructuring. | Post-Postecoglou structural rebuild; midfield consolidation and youth integration. |
| Primary Transfer Target / Asset | Bradley Barcola (£145M asking price from PSG). | Lucas Bergvall (technical midfield orchestrator). |
| Key Tactical Risk | Slow adaptation period; player friction over high-intensity off-ball workloads. | Defensive transition vulnerability when low build-up passes are intercepted. |
| Predicted Table Variance | Volatile (3rd to 8th depending on pressing adoption and attack replacement). | Highly fluid (Highly compressed upper-middle table cluster). |
2. Context & Background: The Landscape Leading to This Conversation
To fully understand the gravity of the panel's observations, one must trace the tactical and economic shifts that have reshaped English football over the last seven years. For nearly a decade, the Premier League was governed by a strict tactical blueprint derived from Juego de Posición (Positional Play). Popularized primarily by Pep Guardiola’s Manchester City, this framework emphasized structured pitch geometry, methodical build-up phases, high ball-retention percentages, and strict territorial dominance. Elite clubs insulated themselves from down-table variance by monopolizing possession, suppressing opponent transition attempts through structured rest defense, and out-spending rivals to secure elite 1v1 wingers.
However, the competitive equilibrium of the sport has evolved. Middle-tier clubs, buoyed by skyrocketing domestic and international broadcasting revenues, began acquiring world-class tactical managers, elite data analytics departments, and superior athletic profiles. Teams like Bournemouth, Brighton & Hove Albion, Aston Villa, and Newcastle United abandoned passive low-block survival strategies in favor of aggressive, highly trained pressing schemes. The athletic and structural gap between the top six and the remaining fourteen clubs narrowed to an unprecedented degree.
This structural convergence created the phenomenon of "compression." No longer could top-tier squads comfortably navigate away fixtures using sub-optimal intensity; any drop in physical commitment or tactical clarity exposed elite clubs to severe destabilization. Concurrently, the tactical counter-revolution pioneered by Basque coaches—most notably Andoni Iraola and Mikel Arteta—and Italian system designers like Roberto De Zerbi introduced methods explicitly built to exploit the rigid predictability of traditional possession dominance.
Liverpool’s internal landscape reflects this broader macro-instability. Following the departure of Jürgen Klopp and the brief transitional tenure of Arne Slot, the club faced institutional disruption. Michael Edwards, the architect of Liverpool’s modern analytical recruitment model, vacated his executive post. Simultaneously, Mohamed Salah’s surprise departure to Trabzonspor removed the team's primary goal generator and commercial icon. Appointing Andoni Iraola represented a deliberate break from traditional positional control, steering the club toward chaotic, high-intensity transition football. Meanwhile, Tottenham Hotspur’s hiring of Roberto De Zerbi signaled a radical commitment to high-risk, possession-baiting mechanics, setting the stage for a dramatic strategic clash at the top of the league table.
3. Deep-Dive Thematic Breakdown
3.1 The Post-Guardiola Vacuum: Compression, Chaos, and the Collapse of Table Hierarchies
The defining structural theme introduced by Joe Devine is the complete dissolution of the operational consensus that previously dictated title races and top-four qualification. For years, tactical analysts could project final standings with high statistical confidence, placing a select group of possession-heavy juggernauts within the 85-to-100 point bracket, while a distinct middle class competed for secondary European places. Devine’s assertion that "everything is up for grabs" highlights a fundamental regime shift in Premier League competitive dynamics.
John McKenzie provides the technical explanation for this unpredictability, citing table compression as the structural driver. Compression occurs when the statistical quality differential between squads narrows across multiple metrics—expected goals (xG), pressing efficiency (PPDA), and physical distance covered. As middle-tier clubs adopt sophisticated tactical frameworks, the point yield required to secure European football has flattened. A top-tier team experiencing minor tactical friction can quickly drop from 3rd to 8th position over a single fixture block.
"I think what's actually happening now is that we've seen that compression. Everyone is much closer together. And people will view that as being like, oh, the league isn't as good anymore... Well, the point is that everything's just a little bit more open now." — John McKenzie
This dynamic challenges traditional media interpretations of league quality. As McKenzie observes, casual observers often mistake unpredictable results for a decline in technical standards. In reality, modern Premier League matches represent hyper-intense tactical chess matches where minor structural errors are ruthlessly punished by opponents equipped with elite pressing systems. The era of guaranteed top-six dominance has given way to an volatile, open league structure.
3.2 Liverpool's Iraola Experiment: Out-of-Possession Control and the Bournemouth Blueprint
The tactical heart of the podcast centers on John McKenzie’s detailed breakdown of Andoni Iraola’s tactical methodology and its complex implementation at Anfield. Having refined his high-octane pressing mechanics at Rayo Vallecano and Bournemouth, Iraola represents the vanguard of modern out-of-possession system design. Unlike traditional possession managers who dictate match momentum through ball pass volume, Iraola dictates terms by deliberately engineering chaotic, out-of-possession environments.
McKenzie defines this concept as controlling matches without the ball. Iraola’s system relies on aggressive, highly coordinated pressing triggers that compress space around opposition build-up players. The objective is not merely to block passing lanes, but to actively force low-probability vertical passes into designated defensive traps, enabling rapid counter-attacking transitions within seconds of ball recovery. This methodology requires immense physical conditioning, spatial awareness, and collective tactical synchronization.
"Predominantly Bournemouth liked to control games without the ball... That requires a huge amount of effort. It requires a huge amount of training and instinct and the ability to read the game well." — John McKenzie
However, scaling this blueprint from a mid-table side to an elite institution presents severe adaptation challenges. McKenzie draws a direct parallel between Liverpool’s initial pre-season struggles under Iraola and Bournemouth’s difficult start to his tenure, where the team went winless over their opening stretch while attempting to absorb his complex pressing mechanics. At Bournemouth, players accepted an initial dip in results because the long-term objective was top-flight survival and mid-table progression. At Liverpool, where multi-million-pound superstars expect immediate success, enduring a months-long adjustment period creates immense internal and external tension.
Furthermore, managing ball-share expectations introduces strategic friction. When facing deep defensive low-blocks at Anfield, Liverpool cannot simply rely on out-of-possession disruption. If opposition teams refuse to build out from the back and instead bypass Iraola’s pressing traps with direct long balls, Liverpool must demonstrate superior in-possession structural play—an area where Iraola's systems have historically required significant development time.
3.3 The £145 Million Barcola Imperative & Post-Salah Rebuilding Mechanics
Complementing the tactical analysis, Dan Kilpatrick provides critical reporting on Liverpool’s roster reconstruction following the departure of Mohamed Salah to Trabzonspor. Replacing Salah’s historical goal-and-assist volume is an extraordinary challenge that cannot be solved by simply shifting existing squad roles. Salah served as both an elite goalscorer and a primary isolation creator on the right flank, drawing double-coverage and creating space for interior runners.
Kilpatrick identifies Paris Saint-Germain’s 22-year-old winger Bradley Barcola as Liverpool’s primary transfer target to address this structural vacancy. However, the reported £145 million price tag underscores the hyper-inflationary state of the global market for elite wide forwards. Barcola represents a distinct profile compared to Salah: a direct, explosive left-sided dribbler who excels at ball progression, high-volume isolation carries, and defensive pressing intensity.
"It's no secret they want to sign a forward. And Barcola is the one they were going for, whether they can afford him, I think it's the big question because he's very good and appears to be asking for a lot of money. Apparently, they're asking for £145 million." — Dan Kilpatrick
From an analytical standpoint, pursuing Barcola aligns directly with Iraola’s high-tempo, direct transition model. Barcola’s elite physical profile and high pressing work-rate make him an ideal component for a system built on out-of-possession chaos. However, committing £145 million to a single profile during an executive transition—following Michael Edwards' exit—exposes Liverpool to substantial financial and operational risk. If PSG maintain their valuation and negotiations stall, Liverpool risk entering the season without a established wide threat capable of executing Iraola's direct transition directives.
3.4 Roberto De Zerbi's Spurs: Baiting the Press, Midfield Geometry, and Lucas Bergvall
Turning to North London, the panel evaluates Roberto De Zerbi’s appointment as Tottenham Hotspur head coach. De Zerbi’s tactical framework stands in sharp contrast to Iraola’s out-of-possession model. De Zerbian football is defined by extreme in-possession risk taking during low build-up phases. By instructing central defenders and deep pivots to invite opposition pressure—often placing a foot on the ball to pause play—De Zerbi intentionally baits opposition lines forward before executing rapid vertical passes into the midfield shadow-spaces.
This system demands exceptional technical composure, spatial precision, and specialized midfield profiles. The panel examines whether Tottenham possess the requisite squad composition to execute these demanding build-up mechanics. Central to this discussion is the emergence of Swedish teenager Lucas Bergvall. Bergvall’s technical profile—characterized by micro-turn agility, resistance to pressure, and progressive forward passing—makes him an intriguing fit for De Zerbi’s intricate midfield combinations.
However, the panel highlights structural vulnerabilities inherent to De Zerbi’s system. When an opposition team successfully breaks through Spurs' low build-up baiting sequence or forces a turnover in the central third, Tottenham’s defensive line is left completely exposed. This places an extraordinary physical burden on central defenders like Micky van de Ven, who must repeatedly execute high-speed recovery sprints across vast spaces to cover central transitions. Without precise midfield ball retention, De Zerbi’s high-wire approach can quickly devolve into defensive instability.
3.5 The Zero-Sum Arena: Bot Culture, Algorithmic Volatility, and the Destruction of Managerial Patience
Beyond tactical schemes and transfer figures, Joe Devine offers a sharp critique of modern football fan culture and digital media dynamics. Devine highlights the rapid breakdown of institutional patience in the age of algorithmic social media, where nuanced long-term project building is continually undermined by binary online narratives.
"If Aureola gets two games in a row, well, they're getting relegated, he should be fired. That will also happen. And a lot of people online, whether they're real or bots, you can't tell anymore. They will also jump on to that same, so that you see there are zero or one. There's very little in between at the moment." — Joe Devine
This observation diagnoses a major structural challenge for modern football executives. Systems like Andoni Iraola’s or Roberto De Zerbi’s require months of trial, error, and physical conditioning before tactical instincts become second nature. Yet, contemporary digital discourse operates on a binary "zero or one" framework. Two consecutive poor performances trigger hyper-polarized demands for managerial dismissals, fueled by social media algorithms that amplify outrage and bot-driven engagement.
This online volatility creates an environment where club executives face immense pressure to abandon tactical projects prematurely. If Liverpool's fanbase and board react to early adaptation friction with immediate panic, Iraola will never be granted the operational runway necessary to replicate his Bournemouth success at an elite level.
4. Speaker Perspectives & Analytical Contrast
The dynamic between Devine, McKenzie, and Kilpatrick showcases three distinct analytical methodologies within modern sports journalism. Evaluating their perspectives reveals key areas of structural alignment alongside fundamental friction points regarding timelines, squad capabilities, and transfer realities.
John McKenzie functions as the structural tactical specialist. His analysis remains grounded in systemic mechanics, out-of-possession data, pressing triggers, and spatial organization. McKenzie approaches Iraola’s appointment with realistic patience, emphasizing that tactical transitions are inherently non-linear. He views Liverpool's early difficulties not as evidence of managerial inadequacy, but as an inevitable adaptation phase required to build collective pressing instincts. His focus remains entirely on the structural pitch mechanics required for system success.
Joe Devine acts as the macro narrative analyst and media critic. Devine contextualizes individual club performances within broader competitive and societal shifts. While McKenzie isolates tactical mechanics, Devine evaluates the environmental pressures surrounding those mechanics—specifically the collapse of the Pep Guardiola consensus, table compression, and the toxic impact of digital bot culture on board-level decision-making. Devine is inherently skeptical of long-term predictions in a compressed league, arguing that operational volatility makes traditional top-four forecasting functionally impossible.
Dan Kilpatrick brings the pragmatic, insider perspective of a senior news editor. While McKenzie and Devine debate tactical paradigms and structural theories, Kilpatrick grounds the conversation in financial and market realities. He highlights the concrete challenges of squad assembly: the raw £145 million cost of Bradley Barcola, the operational void left by Michael Edwards, and the physical reality of replacing Mohamed Salah's output. Kilpatrick’s contributions serve as a vital reality check, illustrating that even the most brilliant tactical schemes fail if executive operations cannot deliver the required profiles.
| Speaker | Primary Analytical Framework | Core Diagnosis | Outlook on Adaptation Timelines |
|---|---|---|---|
| John McKenzie | Tactical System Design & Pitch Geometry | Iraola's out-of-possession control requires patience; compression makes all fixtures challenging. | Requires 6–12 months of structural adaptation for pressing instincts to fully click. |
| Joe Devine | Macro Trends & Media Culture Analysis | The Guardiola consensus has collapsed; modern digital media destroys patience with binary outrage. | Highly volatile; external social media pressure may shorten manager runways prematurely. |
| Dan Kilpatrick | Financial Reporting & Roster Construction | Liverpool face severe economic market friction (£145M Barcola) post-Michael Edwards/Salah. | Dependent on immediate transfer window execution and financial risk management. |
5. Strategic & Industry Implications
The insights shared in this podcast episode point toward profound strategic and economic shifts across the wider European football landscape. As table compression eliminates easy domestic fixtures, the economic model governing elite English clubs faces structural strain. Historically, top-six clubs relied on predictable UEFA Champions League qualification revenues to finance massive wage bills and amortized transfer fees. In an era where any elite club can finish between 3rd and 10th, relying on guaranteed European revenue becomes a dangerous financial strategy.
Furthermore, the tactical convergence between Basque pressing systems (Iraola, Arteta, Alonso) and Italian press-baiting frameworks (De Zerbi) marks the end of passive possession football. Elite clubs can no longer dominate matches simply by retaining 65% ball possession with slow horizontal circulation. Opponents equipped with modern pressing structures will aggressively disrupt passive passing lanes and exploit defensive transition weaknesses. Modern tactics demand that possession must be inherently dynamic, purposeful, and resilient to extreme pressing intensity.
Finally, the episode highlights an emerging crisis in executive governance. The simultaneous departure of elite recruitment executives like Michael Edwards and generational players like Mohamed Salah exposes clubs to compounding operational risk. Successful football organizations must build robust, multi-layered sporting directorate structures capable of maintaining analytical continuity across managerial changes, market inflation, and digital media volatility.
6. Looking Ahead: Unresolved Questions & Next Milestones
As Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur embark on these ambitious tactical rebuilds within a highly compressed league, several critical performance metrics and structural milestones will determine their success over the opening 15 matchdays of the campaign:
- Liverpool’s Pressing Efficiency (PPDA): Analysts must track Liverpool's Passes Per Defensive Action (PPDA) and high turnovers generated. If Iraola’s squad successfully reduces their PPDA into single digits while maintaining a compact defensive block, it will signal that the players have embraced his physically demanding off-ball directives.
- Resolution of the Bradley Barcola Pursuit: Liverpool’s executive team must resolve the £145 million transfer standoff with PSG or quickly secure alternative wide profiles capable of replicating Mohamed Salah's isolation threat and fitting Iraola's direct transition scheme.
- Tottenham’s Low Build-Up Turnover Rate: For Roberto De Zerbi’s Spurs, monitoring central turnovers inside their own defensive third will be vital. Minimizing high-risk pass interceptions in low build-up phases is essential to prevent opponent counter-attacks and protect Micky van de Ven from dangerous isolation.
- Executive Board Resilience Against Digital Volatility: As social media outrage cycles amplify early-season setbacks, the willingness of Liverpool and Tottenham executives to insulate Iraola and De Zerbi from binary "zero or one" media pressure will serve as a ultimate test of modern club governance.
Ultimately, the Tifo Football Podcast panel captures a historic turning point in English football. The era of predictable dominance, stable table hierarchies, and slow possession control has officially given way to an unpredictable landscape of tactical chaos, extreme league compression, and high-risk structural innovation.
💬 Key Quotes & Speaker Breakdown
Liverpool transfer window
"It's no secret they want to sign a forward. And Barcola is the one they were going for, whether they can afford him, I think it's the big question because he's very good and appears to be asking for a lot of money. Apparently, they're asking for £145 million."
Liverpool tactical analysis
"Initially, the answer to that question is yes. It looks similar to what we saw at Bournemouth. Maybe worryingly for Liverpool fans, it looks like Bournemouth at the beginning of his tenure when they struggle to get going."
"Predominantly Bournemouth liked to control games without the ball. That requires a huge amount of effort. It requires a huge amount of training and instinct and the ability to read the game well."
Premier League title race
"This is the context we find ourselves in now, with the collapse of the Pep Guardiola consensus. Everything is up for grabs."
Premier League top 4 predictions
"They're going to finish somewhere between 3rd and 8th. Or 10th. Right. Because the league's weird this year. I cannot tell where anyone's going to finish."
Premier League competitiveness
"I think what's actually happening now is that we've seen that compression. Everyone is much closer together. And people will view that as being like, oh, the league isn't as good anymore because we don't know where... And everyone's like, where's the good teams? Well, the point is that everything's just a little bit more open now."
Manager patience/Social media culture
"If Aureola gets two games in a row, well, they're getting relegated, he should be fired. That will also happen. And a lot of people online, whether they're real or bots, you can't tell anymore. They will also jump on to that same, so that you see there are zero or one. There's very little in between at the moment."
📜 View Full Episode Verbatim Transcript 105,187 characters
Hello and welcome to the TFO Football Podcast. I'm Joe Devine, and today I'm delighted to be joined by John McKenzie. Hello, Joe. Yes, you have a sign on your head that would you like to read that for the audio listeners? I think it says, by my book, please. It says, by my book, please. But like, please. You know, isn't how it would be written on the internet. It's very soon now, isn't it? Yes, how next week, 20th of August? 20th of August. 20th of August. And what's it called again? The Spectre of Pep. That's right, Harry Potter and the Spectre of Pep. So what are you exactly? I'm trying to like, subliminally message here. I'll maybe wear this through. On an audio product, very conceited. You know, when you're watching an Arsenal game, you just like, you have that weird hunch, you like, oh, maybe I should visit Rwanda. That's what I'm going for here. It's going to pick a different one. I mean, I think you should pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. I think it's going to pick a different one. The Athletics Deputy News Editor, Dan Kilpatrick. Hello. Hello, buddy. How are you? Yeah, very well. You've got nothing to sell. Nothing to sell. No, I'm wrapping my brains. I don't have an album or a book. I think it's making sense. I think it's making sense. There we go. Now, what did we talk about on today's episode? Well, so much. We're actually not that much. We covered two teams, two areas. We started the show talking about Liverpool. Can and Don Eureola replicate his success at Bournemouth? That's the question. Will he be given the same level of patience? We ask that. And we also find out how you can determine whether or not something is AI. And we discuss whether something is panable or not. And what is panable? Well, you have to listen to find out. We played a rondo in which we learned about who knows about Germany and who doesn't. Very exciting rondo. Stick around for that halfway through. And then the second half, we talk all about Spurs. The return to the Premier League of Deserbys. What does it mean for a tactical perspective? And do they have enough midfielders? Do they have like players elsewhere? Do they... Should they... What's going to happen to Lucas Bergval? Yeah. Anything else from the Spurs? How do you pronounce Fundofen? How do you pronounce Fontofen? Well, I teach a genuine Spurs fan. How to do it correctly. There we go. Now, was there anything else? Did we talk about anything else? Oh, then at the end, we hear your guys top four. Predictions for top six. Top four and top six. Yeah. Because top four is part of top six. It's too difficult this year. I'm looking forward to it because it could be totally random. But also, it might be just the top six. It's normal. The big six. Yeah, yeah. The top six could be the big six. Yeah. Who knows? Not me either. Anyway. That's it, I think. By the way, incidentally, we have a ring for analysis episode coming out this week on Saturday. Stick around for the later in the week. That doesn't make any sense. You can't stick around in the week, can't you? The week happens to you, I guess. The week, yeah. We'll let the week happen to you. And on Saturday, the ring for analysis episode will happen to you. And the next week, we'll back to the normal day. So we'll have a episode on Tuesday morning, Thursday afternoon and... I can't remember. I don't know where, where, where, where we publish things. But there you go. That's it. By my book. I think it's through my gigs. I read the athletic. There we go. Read the athletic. Okay. Let's get on with the show. Well, where else to begin, of course, then with Liverpool. Now, big changes are Liverpool this summer. Haven't there been? And I'm not even talking about Jeff Bezos. I think we may be able to talk about that later this week. Firstly, Mohamed Salah has left, of course, moving to Trabzon's sport. In the turpish, in the turpish. Turpish. The turpish super league. And Don Eureola is the new head coach, of course. Michael Edwards also left his role as chief executive of football too, as well as several other key player departures. So it's quite quite a big bit of change. There's two parts to this, I think. In terms of this sort of season preview chat that we're going to have. There's the tactical story. And then there's the trance for window story, which is a very slow story. We'll come back to that afterwards. Let's start with the former. John, I think one of the big questions about Liverpool this season relates directly to Andon Eureola. Firstly, I mean, you've watched some of them in preseason. I guess the first question is just, what does it look like? I mean, is it the same as Bournemouth? Is it different to Bournemouth? Will it need to be different to Bournemouth? Yeah, that's a good question. Initially, the answer to that question is yes. It looks similar to what we saw at Bournemouth. Maybe worryingly for Liverpool fans, it looks like Bournemouth at the beginning of his tenure when they struggle to get going. But we can talk in games and around. Yeah, and we can talk. Did they lose? Well, they didn't win. They didn't win, actually. Yeah, we were winless, yeah. That's the same thing in my book. I think they draw with Brentford in that run. I remember being at that game and they conceded really late on. I think it was maybe Brian and Burmoh. When he remembered he was at Brentford feels a million years ago. It does, doesn't it? But yeah, I think that's to be expected. The idea is that it is going to take time to pick up the ideas that Eureola has brought. Which are what? Well, I guess the big question everyone has with this scaled up approach. So taking an idea that works at Bournemouth and moving to Liverpool is, is he going to have the requisite level of control that you need when you're at a team at the top of the league? Because with Bournemouth, he didn't really do that. He had players that were maybe worse than the players on the opposite team half the time. Yeah, it's worth discussing what we mean by control. Because I think he would argue that he did control games. But he control games in a very different way, the way that a lot of elite sides would do that. Which is why the scaling up question is so prevalent. Predominantly Bournemouth liked to control games without the ball, I would say. In terms of making sure the opponent just weren't able to do the things they wanted to do with it. That requires a huge amount of effort. It requires a huge amount of training and instinct and the ability to read the game well. The analogy I like for it is, do you remember that one time that we played chess? And you're like a really good chess player. Do you remember how good of a chess player you are? And I'm not a good, I'm the Bournemouth in this scenario. You pulled me down to your level, didn't you? What I did was I just made aggressive blunder after aggressive blunder just to destabilise you. And then you thought, this guy's an idiot. And then I came in the back, I stabbed you in the back, and then I refused to play you ever again. I hung a backline check, didn't I? Yeah, that's a bit like what and Donnie Eurel is Bournemouth do, right? Yeah, absolutely. The opposite of what you would want them to do. Yeah, you have your plan and they destabilise the plan. And you know, part of the reason why it's going to take so long for Liverpool to get to that level is because it is a collective approach. It requires everyone to know what they're doing, to be able to do what they're doing. And it needs to get to a level where it becomes instinctive. And that takes time. So in many respects, it's almost like the opposite trajectory that we saw with slot where I think slot came in and the players were at a level of fitness where they were ready to sort of go and play his style. And it worked out for that first half of the season in particular. Yeah. And it sort of fell as though the upsides started being outweighed by the downsides of that system. And you can make the argument that maybe you got figured out a little bit in the second season. I think with Eurel, I mean, that's not to say that the same trajectory might not happen with Eurel over the longer run. But I think the idea is that it takes time to get up to that level. And until you get to that level, it feels awful a lot of the time. But there will come a point at which it clicks and everyone is doing the right thing and everyone is fit enough and everyone is able to put pressure on the opponents. And suddenly you're like, oh, now I understand what the point of this is. So there's a couple of, that's the outer possession control side of things. It requires a lot of effort, a lot of energy, the players have to buy into it. It does sound quite a lot like the Eurek and Klopp evolution as well though, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think for me, one of the big questions is what extent will the players buy into that approach? It's fine when you're a Bournemouth and you can make the argument bear with and you'll see the fruits and we're a mid-table side and actually the season he joined, they just escaped relegation, right? So there's an extent to which the players are like, it's fine. Yeah, yeah. And it can be, it's going to be, we're trying something different. This hopefully will have a better impact than what you did last season. When you do that with a Liverpool side, yes, Eurek and Klopp did it. But like Eurek and Klopp came in to a Liverpool side in a very sort of different situation, right? And you can make the argument that there was more scope for that to happen. With this Liverpool side, they've got a hundred million pound players on the pitch. And I guess one of the questions is whether or not the players are going to join in for that journey where it maybe feels a bit bad at the beginning and then rises to a certain level. Shadows of rail Madrid under Jean-Bierre Lancer. But then the control that everyone talks about is the impossession control. And again, impossession Liverpool under Eurek, they're going to try and destabilise, or at least under Bournemouth, when he was at Bournemouth, they were trying to destabilise the opponent. They were playing directly and trying to stop them from settling into their defensive structure. And if you're playing in that way, right, where you're trying to destabilise both in and out of possession, the games can become chaotic and they can become knackering, basically. And I think one of the big questions that people will have is, one, will the players be able to deal with that level of intensity with as many games as a season as they're going to have? And the other one I suppose is that when you made the games chaotic, if you've got really good players, you're maybe even just reducing the impact that those players can have. You probably want to have more of the ball. So the question is, how do you then introduce the levels of control that allow you to not have to defend aggressively all the time? If you can get to 60%, 60% possession, then you're doing less of the defending. And so you're going to be less exhausted by that. But also, can you maybe, I guess, periodise your imposition approach so that you're not constantly going all the time? And then you have these changes of possession backwards and forwards. It becomes basketball. Can you absorb pressure for a little while, take the sting out of the game, but not do it in such a way that you then lose the upside of your aggressive attacking approach as well? So that's the question that I suppose I have for Ariel are going into this season. How do you balance all of those things off without losing the things that you're going to be good at? I mean, Liverpool's definitely, when you put it like that, the best big club for him to be at because they do already play in that slightly more chaotic style than the other teams. But the reason I'm so interested in it is because it does feel a lot like the evolution that Jürgen Klopp had to go on when he came from, from Mike's first, Bruce Adortman, maybe playing that style of football where you're not always the best team on the pitch. J.J., you've sort of expressed the opinion that this is all good and all. But if what happened at Bournemouth at the beginning happens at Liverpool, then some people might start to panic. How long do you think a coach like Handani Aureola has at Liverpool to establish himself and to establish to try and answer the sorts of questions that John was just asking before things go wrong? Well, I think you can even look at what we've said in this podcast here before in the past. So, for example, when one team wins in the first game of the season, you, for example, might assume that they're going to win the league. No, I will. So that will happen. So if Aureola gets two games in a row, well, they're getting relegated, he should be fired. That will also happen. That will happen. I mean, I'll be saying that. Well, of course. I mean, and a lot of people online, whether they're real or bots, you can't tell anymore. Sure. They will also jump on to that same, so that you see there are zero or one. There's very little in between at the moment. There's a good way of telling if something online is a bot or a real person. Do you want to tell you what it is? Put it in the water. No, if they agree with what you think, they're a real person. If they disagree, they're a bot. That's the general truth. That's the other way around. It's not the other way around. I thought, hey, I always agree with you. It's like, that's a really great suggestion. That is true. I mean, mine was just a sort of joke comment. No, yours was a real bit of analysis. It's good. It was good stuff. It was good to go through their history and see how much they've talked about immigration. Yeah, yeah. It's a bot. There we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think everyone will understand what I'm talking about. It doesn't go well in the first few games. What you lose as well is the players aren't galvanized by it. If you're trying to get them to be intense and energetic, it's very hard to keep going at that when it's not going your way. Sometimes you've got to adapt that a little bit, but I think the thing with the role I would be to not try and adapt it. It's to do what he's doing because eventually it'll work. But there's loads of examples. There's loads of graveyards of the skeletons of managers who have not... Yeah. Or have adapted, actually, and then it hasn't gone their way. So you go with it. They're also missing quite a few players that they could do is to make it work that well. Sure. To your point about people getting carried away as well, I'm reminded that it's a year anniversary since Tottenham's Supercut performance against PSG. Under Thomas Frank. Yes. When they apparently did a number on a very tired PSG who had been back in training for about four days and then I think went on to be Burnley and Man City and we were all saying, this guy's brilliant. Look how he's adapting for every team. I know the product choice for the right one. Yeah. What a genius. Why didn't everyone else have Thomas Frank? And obviously that went south very quickly. So I think, as JJ says, it can go either way very quickly, based on just a couple of performances. And the huge difference with Liverpool to Bournemouth is that one defeat is pretty much a crisis. Yeah. Because people will look at Bournemouth and they can go whatever it is, 20 games unbeaten and get loads of draws and no one really bats an eyelid or they can equally lose or not win nine games and no one will bet an eyelid. Whereas that's just not even a ball. It's also worth mentioning that Bournemouth, like people were saying, Errol should be fired after the nine games. They were like, this isn't going to work. I think there's maybe two things for me which are in his favour. One is that he is very good. He's a very good man-manager and to that extent, you know, he'll get... He's probably in the best position to be able to get the players to join him for that journey, even if it doesn't work. And the other thing that I was going to say, I've completely forgotten. So hand over the question. Maybe it'll be for the back. So mentioning that they've got a £100m player. Sometimes what you find with players like that is like, if you're trying to put the system as being god and then you have to make players align to that, you get the most out of £100m players. Like, is the best way to use ESA converts by doing what Errol it does? It'll probably work because they're obviously amazing players. But then, is there a better way to profile those? And is there a better to build around what you already have? Like, I was watching Preseason, John, about it. And I just think I'm bad at this now because I thought it was very end-to-end and looked super, super basketball. I'm like, well, I mean, I can see where that'd be. A problem with everyone else's good at that. Yeah. I mean, some of the concerns from Preseason as well have been, have been talked about by Errol and himself. In fact, after, I think they threw away a lead against Monaco and Preseason again. They would tune it up. They would tune it up. They lost three, two. And afterwards, he said that his side had worked to do because they can't sustain the level he wants for the duration of the game. So there have been some questions about the fitness. There have been a lot of comments that they can do it for 30 minutes, but not for longer than there. That's a bit of a concern, isn't it? I mean, particularly if you need to play that level of intensity and for many more games and Bournemouth players were playing, that sounds concerning. Yeah. And you add to that the fact that the squad feels just quite lumpy. They've not added to the right wing area where Muhammad Salah was obviously so important for them for so long. Yeah. There's still, you know, every, I've done deliverable sensible transfers every six months for like three years now. And every, I think every time I've done it, I mean... Never listen to that. Never listen, John. I don't think that I've been particularly profound in suggesting they might need a centreback. They have obviously gone for centrebacks a little bit more in the last window. They still have a verge of and I can no one really behind him on the left hand side. Sure. So there's still our areas where it feels a little bit lumpy. You add to that the fact that you go, you go clop, slot, and then era older. It's very much sort of swinging the pendulum backwards and forwards. Right. Everyone, I was going to say also, because this all this talk about fitness levels has sort of thrown me a bit because my understanding of Liverpool was that they were the fittest team because they, you know, they were a young clop team and they played very intensely. What does slot do? Did everyone just chill out for a year? Well, yeah, and you know, when slot came in, he was very quick to point out the similarities and differences between him and clop. And he was saying like, yeah, I obviously like to attack directly, but our teams are going to take their time when they were slow things down. In his first season, wasn't there that record where Liverpool didn't get any injuries? And everyone was saying, well, that's part of the reason they've won the league. Because they, they stayed fittest. And there was almost, it's sort of threatened to get to the point where Liverpool's fitness coaches, if I'm not mistaken, were kind of being bigged up, but almost in the way that the setpiece coaches have now pulled. I remember thinking we're going to get our first sort of celebrity fitness coach here. If this carries on, you know, like the sort of Keith Andrews equivalent is going to take charge of someone. That would be horrifying if you were a fitness coach, though, wouldn't it? Because you know as soon as people start to praise you, someone's going to get into the media league. I think that was coming down the track. That's my prediction of football. Like people are obsessed with, you know, who Arsenal are hiring on their medical staff to show them. He's one of the best doctors. Yeah, they got him from Spain. But I digress. But I think it was either last season or the season before, everything's blanking into one now. When Bournemouth had about ten injuries over Christmas. So like, as to John's point, like Iriola style does where players down. And now they've got more games and an imbalance squad. And I think that would be a bit of a concern. Okay, interesting. Well, let's talk a little bit about the transfer business. Much like slots slowing down of things. There. I'll give up on that. Anyway, Kanate, Salah, Robertson, all gone. Without fees, no major incomes so far. Well, I guess rolled around hard. I don't know. Yeah, I guess you can count as a major income. Right. Because although it's unloan, there is a... It was a bomb, but it was a true bomb. It was a true bomb. 55 million euro option to buy next summer. There you go for Ronald Raoho. Curtis Jones' future is a bit uncertain. It's possible that he could leave the lots of links to Inter. It's also possible that Cody Gagpo could leave. Links to Spurs, who knows what's going to happen there. Federico Kiezer apparently still quote, weighing up his options according to the deal sheet, although I'm not sure how much of an impact they'll have, except that's another player that can play on the right wing. Are we expecting any further business, Dan? We know. I mean, I think we are. I think it's no secret they want to sign a forward. And Barcola is the one they were going for, whether they can afford him, I think it's the big question because he's very good and appears to be asking for a lot of money. Apparently, they're asking for £145 million. Yeah. Which kind of seems absolutely ludicrous to this. It's a lot of money for Bradley Michael. Not even a starter for them. His contract is running down. So I wonder whether toward the end of the window, that sort of hard position will soften a little bit from PSG. I think we'll have to wait and see. But clearly, they need a kind of salary replacement. I mean, Barcola plays on the other side, but I guess he would be the replacement in kind of stature and like star power. Barcola, if he came in, he'd be like the guy. Does he play on the left? I think he plays on the left, Coach. Yeah. And I really all always makes this point that he wants his wingers to play on both sides as well. Right. Again, it's kind of interesting because when you're Bournemouth and you're often playing like quite direct, your wingers tend to just sort of receive in space and run directly at the goal because you're playing in transition. Yeah. A lot of the time. But that obviously changes if you are coming up against teams who are going to be blocking out a little bit more. Especially if you are trying to slow the game down a bit more, you're probably going to end up in those scenarios where you're going to front up your wingers against fullback. So yeah, whether or not... Who are their wingers though? I'm trying to think like Gagpo, obviously, is played under the left wing. I got Rio. Salah's gone. Rio and Gamer. Okay, Rio and Gamer, who are you playing the right? He plays... He plays both. He has played on the right this preseason. Yeah. But I think it's probably... It's probably generally agreed that he's better off off the left. Right. And then they've signed... Yeah, he's a... Victor Munoz as well. Oh, okay, but probably not a first team starter, Victor Munoz, right? Well, I don't know. Yeah, maybe... Maybe not. But again, he's another left-sided player. So really, they... The only players they have on their squad, who play on the right, are... Kiezer. He's been playing through the middle anyway. He's generally played as a nine when he's come on. And who's weighing up his options? And he's weighing up his options. And then Harvey Elliott, who, again, has played in the 10 slot this preseason, and has... Right. You know, again, this question's about where he's going. So there's Frimpong, I guess, but again, Frimpong's been played as a fullback, mainly because he's really the only player they have available in that position right now. Yeah. But there's a possibility they could use him, they're going to have to bring someone in, who can play on that right way. What do you think of the role of a Raoho addition? Yeah, I think it makes complete sense, given that Joe Gomez went down injured in the first preseason game. Can he... He can play center back as well, can't he? Yeah, yeah. I would describe him as a center back. Oh, right. But didn't he play it right back for a long time? Yeah, I believe he's played there a fair amount. Who knows? Raoho was sort of quite controversial because he's had a couple of poor seasons, I guess, as far as our favour. He's quite... He has what people like to call the Bozo gene, so he can sometimes do... Bozo type things. Yeah, so, Carameters moment. Got it, got it. But I got that. He has incredible athleticism, incredible physicality and sometimes uses... I guess when you have that, sometimes you can be a little bit more rash because you jump into challenges and then you can rely on your ability to get back. Like coasting intellectually, you know? Yeah, maybe. I'm not going to go all the way with you on that one, I don't know. People online were saying this was a shit transfer. That's what I was confused. I thought, oh, isn't he a... It seems like a good player to me. I don't know. Yeah, I think he's decent. But like John says, there's occasional moments where those things that are incorrect. But he's a high level player. There's an example that a lot of people want to use with Lewis and Ricky pointing out that Raoho, although a good player, has moments in him that you can take advantage of and so he built a lot of PSG attacks against Barcelona and one of those games towards him. Right. But I mean, that's just trying to find the smallest and my little weakness. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, he's... It's fine. It makes sense, Rao, because they've got Jeremy Jackay, the set about they brought in who's coming back from injury and presumably will be their starter for the next few seasons if it works out correctly. And then they've got Leoni behind him, who again, they brought him to be... They brought in to be the play behind Canata and then he got injured. They're both coming back. So I think they're in a scenario where they're like, we don't want to bring someone... We need to bring someone in who's good enough but we can't bring someone in who's... who we're going to keep around because then we'll end up with too many centre backs in the same position. So if we get this guy in, have him on our own option and then, you know, hopefully, by the end of the season, everything's sort of high end out. I've heard Jeremy Jackay's quite a warm guy, you know? Particularly when he puts his arm around, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Don't laugh. Oh, thanks. We have to live with him. Sorry. Listen, let him laugh out of awkwardness. It's a reason to deny me social awkward laughs just because you don't give them any more. Now, where do we think Liverpool are going to finish? I mean, this is, I suppose, the big question for fans of all sorts of different teams. It's very difficult to predict the top six this year. Are they going to make the top five, JJ? Are they going to be in the top five? They're going to finish somewhere between 3rd and 8th. Or 10th. Right. Because they're 10th. The league's weird this year. I cannot tell where anyone's going to finish. We had to do a predictions video. And I can't. Where'd you put them? I mean, Sarah, I think. No, did I? No, I'm not a fourth, I think. Fourth, yeah. But I said the top five. Yeah, so I would swap them around with loads of different players. Like, it might work really well and they'll be amazing. They might get injuries. So if ESAC gets injured and then Van Dyke gets injured, that is a different team altogether. Right. And something like, oh, oh, and so you're in trouble and you get, you can't buy players after August, obviously. And you go and get TK's injured right now. And he'll be a well to get recuperated. Is that the right word? Yeah. Into being a real boy again. So that's going to take a while. There's so many teams, though, because like a lot of the, the smaller clubs are really good now. Look at what Brentford's, the salaries are. What their average salary is. They should be getting relegated every year. And yeah, they could quite easily push for one of the European places. This is going to be the year, though, I predict. Because everyone's got caught out on Brentford for the last four years. And so this time, no one's going to predict them to go down. Yeah. They're going down this year. I'm sticking to my guns on that one. I mean, that could also conceivably happen. Yeah. It'll end up being the same as always, everyone's like, oh, the league robbers, because it's going to be Arsenal or Man City again. But I genuinely cannot call a lot of them. Like Chelsea's other team, but I've watched a lot of them. I can't tell whether it'll be great or they'll be occasional lapses that make you think, well, this is not working totally. Well, I've been pan today for predicting Chelsea for a finished second. Really? Athletic. Who panned you? The other members of the news desk. Colin Miller. Yeah. Full one. Yeah. That's just pan as they're always panning. Colin Miller's got Manchester United second, doesn't it? Oh, yeah. You counter panning. I did. I rebuffed with a firm panning of my own. I repanned. Yeah. But yeah, I totally agree with JJ. It's really difficult to call. I remember City to and the league. Imagining rescue would kind of do a slot and just sort of pick up nicely and carry on things and do what's interesting. That's interesting. Yeah. But then it was really difficult. And I went for the kind of boringly way for the newly promoted clubs to go back down. Yeah. But then just to say up the newsman, aren't you? Everything in between. Yeah. Yeah. To my back. I guess the thing is thinking about it, though, on the sort of on the panning basis. Yeah. It's hard to imagine like a pick that isn't panable in some way. Because when you said City to win the league, I thought that's panable. That's panable. But then it, then I'm like, but who would? Who does win the league? I think Arsenal to win the league is not panable. I guess that's the least panable. Yeah. I think a lot of people are confident because I find it's a little bit panable. It's a little bit panable, though. Come on. It's somewhat panable, though. It's still a bit panable. But you're right. That's the least panable. Second least panable. And I think newly promoted clubs to go back down, isn't this panable? No, that's not possible. It's a little bit panable. I'm convinced now that Hollis is staying up because we've just been like, yeah, Holl going down. Yeah, exactly. They're definitely staying up. This is how it works. That's my death in Brentford. Yeah. I also think like every single, I think loads of teams will adapt how they play because it will all change. Because everyone's so quick to adapt and do new things now. And I feel like, like Meresca talked about it a little bit as well recently, talking about how everyone's going set pieces and they're going quite direct. It's all physical. We know that's happened. And then everyone's seen what PSG did in the final and be like, oh, that's actually what football's meant to be like. That's quite nice. We should probably try and do that. Do we have the players for it? And you go through a lot of the squads. You're like, a lot of these players are. I don't want to watch these. These are all brutes. Like, do anyone want to watch this? Is like Fritz Freezer's running about super fast? I don't know. So I think a lot of that will change. You'll see how the teams adapt their pressing. So like Meresca was going man to man last season. And now he looks like he's doing the sort of zonal hybrid press that everyone else also seems to do. I've seen a Lonzo do like different things in different preseason games. And I think what Alonzo and Mike Chelsea will be good this season, I think, is because they're going to be so adaptable from game to game. So they're going to change things from game to game, but in game. And it'll be the players job to work out when to do that. Yeah. So it'll be like, I'm trying to write a video just now. Whether it's at four or it was at three, it doesn't really matter. It'll be both at the same time. But also not it depends on where the players are in the spaces. And that will change all during the game, depending on what they're going on. And I think other managers will do similar. So that's why it's hard to say who'll be where. Because Liverpool might start with this thing. And then be like, oh, maybe that's not working. I'll change to this now. Or Spares will be like, does there be a work then? Well, it'll work now. Don't know. But then all these managers are also aware of all this. So they'll be adapting their plans to. Yeah. You should try and coin three and a half at the back. Yeah. I was thinking about that the day. What if you were to say, because it is a three. Sometimes it's a four. You know, it's a bit of both, isn't it? Or it's a false three. It's the kind of thing I would have done a couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah. Give it a try. It's been knocked out. Just throw it in there. Throw it in that video. What's yours, though? No, no, no, no, no. I'm gifting it to you. Throw it in that video. And then people who've watched the podcast will know. There was a tester, a little filler. Let's just see what the response is. It's going to play three and a half at the back. Panable. It is a very panable. That's the downside of the approach. It's extremely panable. Who's the second least panable winner option? City. City. Oh, yeah, I guess. Yeah. No, they were your first but no. I don't see a world in which many nights could genuinely do something weird and maybe are they the third least half for a while. I think, well, I think because it's so open. So the reason with Arsenal, right? Arsenal have, like, they are ridiculously hard to play against and the best defense by Miles. So they should probably win it. But I think, especially if the rules change the rest of the pieces. Now, I know it'll sound like there's a constant dig at Arsenal. But like, if that changes, they'll have to change everything they're doing. I think Gimmer Eish as an example is a player that I think are terrible. Now he's got over the line. He might have room to be able to play with him a little bit and do something different. I suspect he'll go down the Josie Merino route of being trying to be attacking from the start with the very start of the league. Then they have a little blip and it goes straight back to being the horrible ones to play against. And they'll probably end up winning that way. But there's a world in which a couple of set pieces don't go in. They draw a couple of games. They fall behind. It becomes a pressurized situation and then they fall against it. Man City, like a really high expected goes against last season. I think it was second highest in Peps, 10-year. Yeah. So, like, Mereska might try and address that. But he's also leaned into more direct football over the last couple of years. The same time as Gwerdy. All that is done. So that's kind of difficult, which leaves it open maybe for someone to sneak in. And like, they were good under character season. I think a lot of that is lucky goals that they were getting. Sure. And pieces as well, same as Arsenal. Yeah. So, it's really difficult. And then you've got like Chelsea, maybe they'll sneak in, Liverpool's sneak in. So, like, it's super open up. Is there any one of those spurs in the second half? Well, we've got a lot of them. Equally, would you be that surprised if Mann United were like tenths? No, by Christmas. Not at all. No. Yeah. That's why it's so hard. It's so panable. Everything's so panable. The risk of spoiling my book. This is the story of the last year. No risk of spoiling your book. There's too much information in your book to be spoiled, unless we sit here and talk for 25 hours. That is true. But, yeah, I think this is the context we find ourselves in now, with the collapse of the Pep Guardiola consensus. Everything is up for grabs. You're now in this scenario. It's panable. Yeah. You know, teams who previously probably wouldn't have been able to win the league the way they're playing suddenly have a much more valuable approach to the game. And so, yeah, maybe Arsenal will win with their sort of leaning into the defensive side of things and propping up their goals scored by set pieces. That's worked in the last few seasons. But equally, Liverpool won the season before, you know, without being necessarily a great set piece side and playing almost like deserving stuff, like sitting deeper, hitting on the counter. Yeah, there's a possibility that a more direct approach is going to be okay. And you don't need to be super controlled all the time in order to win it. But then, Moresca might win trying to reintroduce a high possession control approach as well. To be honest, I think that's great. I think it's fun. I think people struggle a little bit and have done for the last couple of seasons because they actually... People can play in about a team that dominates. But people actually fans like the having someone at the top of the... They like to know where everything is ordered. Sure, sure, sure. This is a good team. These are the bad teams. Where does my team appear in the hierarchy? Yeah, and I think what's actually happening now is that we've seen that compression. Everyone is much closer together. Yeah. And people will view that as being like, oh, the league isn't as good anymore because we don't know where... And everyone's like, where's the good teams? Sure. Where are the bad teams? Well, the point is that everything's just a little bit more open now. It's a lot more competitive. And I think a lot of that comes down to the different tactics being played. And I think, for me, I find it quite fun. Can I also be very reductive and be like, if you just looked at it, it was a video game. Like, if you're a EFC or whatever. If you look to that actual squad and the players you've got on each single one. Like, Arsenal and Man City are both five star teams. That's pretty good. There they are. Yeah. But then you go below them. I mean, it could be. They're like four and a half five, I'd say. Chelsea maybe, like, four and a half, maybe four. Liverpool probably about the same. And then you go below the rest of them. You start getting into, they're all fours and four and a half. But there's only two clear, I think, five star teams in the league. Yeah. And you could make the argument that Man City on the verge of a four and a half. Right? They've got Erling Holen, which really pushes them into that five-star vicinity. But I feel like, when you look at their team, it's really strong. Like it is, for sure. For sure. It's Monday performing in there, though. A little bit longer than we have already in there. I do know what I think. I think it's going to go badly for the rest of it. Anyway, we'll talk about that on another show. We'll talk about it on another show. Let's have a quick break. And when we return, we'll play a Rondo. Yes! Welcome back from that delightful break. Now, time to play a Rondo. You played a Rondo before, didn't you? Remind me. Okay, here's how the game works. I ask a question that has multiple correct answers as we go round in a circle. We give correct answers. If we give incorrect answers, we are rejected from the Rondo. If we give an answer that someone's given before. We're rejected from the Rondo. No, the Rondo, but I understand. Really? Yes. Also, final rule. If you do that, if you do that, you take too long, you know. No, it's time. No, it's time. I'll just kill myself. Okay. Now, here is the question. For today's Rondo sounds simple, but as we know, sometimes simple is pimple. Teams who will play in the Bundesliga this coming season. Bundesliga teams for the 26-27 season. Don't go out now. That's actually a good point. I was going to start with Dan Kilpatrick because he sort of winced when I said that. But I'll start with you because whilst you didn't winse, I can feel the winse inside of your body. Yeah, it's going to be bad. Bayern Munich. Bayern Munich. Are one of the teams, of course, they are. Let me just find them though. Where are they in here? Oh, there they are. Right. Got it, got it, got it. Over to you, Dan. Presidormen. Borussia Dortmund are there. Of course they are. John. And now I'm out. By a Labour Cousin. Well, by a Labour Cousin, they're a real team. And they're in there. I'm sure you can get one more. Yes. Wolfsberg. Wolfsberg. No. I don't think Wolfsberg are there. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, JJ. You are. Out of there, my guy. Okay. No, Wolfsberg. I would have thought. I would have thought. Wolfsberg as well. Did they? Did they? Yeah, I think so. Right. Yeah. Unlucky. Unfortunate. Well, now listen. As you hear some of these names come up. I think you're going to go. Oh, yeah. I did know that. Oh, yeah. I did know that. Dan. Fryberg. Fryberg. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Fryberg. There they are. Thank God. I'm track Frankfurt. Thank God. I'm track Frankfurt. Of course a team. They exist. Dan back to you. Cologne. Cologne. FC Cologne. Of course they are. FC Cologne. Augsburg. Augsburg. FC Augsburg are there. Of course they are. Dan back to you. Munchen Gladbach. Yeah. I was going to say there's a couple of biggies on here that we still haven't got. Hamburg. Hamburg. Hamburg. SV. Of course they're there. That's correct. Yeah. Dan. Think about the history of Jürgen Klopp. Oh, yeah. Where was he before Dortmund? Dumb roasted Dortmund. Oh, mind. Yeah. Minds. There you go. Well done. With no clues at all. Back to you, John. I believe you. Elvesburg. We're promoted this year. SV. Elvesburg. I think we know who's going to win this one. Dan. I think we know who's going to win this one. I think we know who's going to win this one. I think we know who's going to win this one. I think we know who's going to win this one. I think we know who's going to win this one. I think we know who's going to win this one. I think we know who's going to win this one. I think we know who's going to win this one. I think we know who's going to win this one. 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And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... And he wanted to keep Romero... Fine, sure. Fine, but... Yeah. I think if any of these... I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think if Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, I think Ariel has a fine season, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second, and so we should be second,
