De Zerbi's Tottenham Revolution: Financial Headroom, Tactical Shifts & Culture Overhaul

This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Influences and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? Find out by searching for more than a school wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Get more with BBC Podcasts wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire and Your Dead To Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon Music subscription. Roberto Deserby over the next hour, so we will preview Spurs season. What will success look like for the Lily White's? It's deserving the right man to take the club forward, and will there big summer signings pay off? Alongside me, the former Spurs will talk about with 297 appearances for the club. Chris Utan, the former Tottenham Winger, Andrew Townsend, and the Spurs fan and podcast stuff for the fighting cock. Flav Bateman, hello everyone. Chris, I'll come to you first. Not the best memories of last season, just in terms of going into this one. Is there cautious optimism? Is there still the underlying doubt? I think there has to be some, because I think if you look at the two league positions, and I know there was a Europa Cup success the season before large, which was fabulous, but I think if you look at the two league positions, I have no doubt at all that last season, season would have been a lot better, it had not been for the amount of injuries that were accumulated at the club, and of course at the manager had to work around. So I think that's still an issue, but to jump from two 17th places to some expectations of Champions League is a huge jump, but I think everybody's expecting to be a far better season. I think there should be a little bit of caution, but I think with the amount of players that have been signed already, and hopefully two or three others to come in, then I think I can understand the optimism. Flav, really good to speak to you. From a supporters perspective, I mean, last season was nothing short of it. It could have been a disaster. It really could have heading down into the championship. You missed it, and of course it was your nearest and nearest West AM United, who now are planning a foul football, and you got the escape. What about this season? What's the temperature like in the Spurs fans cabinet right now? How are we feeling going into the new campaign? Yeah, I think given the amount of money you've been spent and the quality of the players that have been brought in for Nandes and Tanali, they could have been playing anywhere in the Premier League, and for them to end up coming to Spurs shows there's been a shift in how we are operating in the transfer market that hasn't been the case for probably 10, 15 years. I think the amount of money that we're willing to pay players wages now opens the door to a lot more agents than it would have done previously. So with the Fernandez Tanali, but also the signing of Van Hecker has been massive, but it's been a lot made of how much we've spent, and actually if you look at the net spend of what we've managed to accumulate by selling players, we're something like the fifth in terms of most spent this summer. So there's a perception that Spurs go crazy in the transfer market. It isn't true. I think what we're trying to do is re-address the balance between us and our perceived rivals, the other big five, the big six, and we just have to get it done. At the end of the season, you'll remember that the Derby said that there is like 10 or 11, maybe 12 players that he trusts. I don't know if it's exact words, this is not verbatim, but he sort of shy-lighted the fact that the squad was relatively thin when it appeared bloated. And I didn't think that we would be able to do enough business to turn that around. And we have. We've bought in five players that would definitely be in contention with Stein against Brentford this weekend. So yeah, I think the optimism is there. I think we've suffered a lot as a fan base over the last two years, especially last season. There are many times I thought we were legitimately getting relegated. So I was just so relieved after that win against Everton that we could just start to rebuild because we wouldn't have to sum what we've had now if we had been relegated. Andross, it looks like it's going to be a new backline for Tottenham and a new central midfield. How far along the rebuild journey do you think they are right now? I think they are a lot further than we believe. I think the managers got in the key positions that deserve he likes to keep possession. He likes to play out through the back. He likes to build through his two number sixes. And you can see that in the signs he's made to Nalyth and Anders Van Hecker at the back. He's a key position for him in the way he wants to play. And the fact that he's got the deals done before the start of the season. And as a spurs fan, that is not normally the case. So I'm really optimistic that spurs can only have a good season, but start well. And that's so important under a relatively new manager when you've just survived relegation season before. The start is so important. And the fact that he's got his business done very early is positive signs for spurs. Fluff, Fluff, is it quite enjoyable to spurs fan to see them actually getting deals done, paying the fees, getting the players in for pre-season, so they have the opportunity to bed in rather than the deep negotiations we used to see from Daniel Levy when he led a unique and the club. It's unbelievable. I can't tell you how satisfied this summer has been. It doesn't mean anything right, because a great window doesn't guarantee anything in the next season. But yeah, you can't talk about Tottenham without talking about Daniel Levy to still, you know, it's been over a year since he left the football club. But I think more, as much as it has been impressive bringing players in like to Nalyth and Fernandez for big, big money, we broke our transfer record twice in a couple of weeks. The willingness to get deals done in selling players is what's really made a difference. I thought it started with Brennan Johnson. In January, we saw him 35 million before the window even opened. And that showed you the appetite to get deals done early, which is one, I think Daniel Levy, you've got to give him massive credit. He has transformed the football club in a time where lots of money was coming into English football, but he's made really sensible decisions that have enabled us to be in a situation to be able to spend and capitalize on the headroom with SCR and the PSR before it. The irony here, though, is that if he was still here, we wouldn't have done what we've done this summer. And that's why it's sort of a strange situation we find ourselves in. When Arsenal signed Declam Ryzen, Gokkarez, I remember thinking at the time we were podcasting about it, is that Spurs would never be in that conversation. We would never be in a world where Declam Ryzen would even consider coming to Tottenham because we weren't operating like a football club that was ambitious. You know, it was a club that managed its finances really well and was self-sufficient. But it wasn't an ambitious football club. So it feels like an ambitious football club now. And a lot of this comes down to the situation we was in last season when there's Erby agreed to become sort of almost reluctantly become the Tottenham Oxford manager and having to hand over some of the procedure making to him. And his only motive is going to be to create the best football club that Spurs possibly can be on the pitch and compete. So it's a weird and very welcome feeling. A lot of supporters and just looking around the fanbase, reading, you know, what the thought to have long-term supporters and hearing from them, they feel that a lot of the identity, the traditions of the football club were lost when they left the lane. They felt that it became a corporate machine that was geared for making money. They talked about the sky walk and the track underneath to go and go and ratio your go carts round and all the revenue that it's going to bring. But Roberto deserved he did something very important this summer. It feels like a huge step in a positive step in shifting the culture of the football club, Chris. And it was a group of older players, a group of former Spurs legends coming to the club, the training ground for a special lunch to recognise the history and bring it together the past and present. How did it make you feel being there and what was it like? Well, firstly, it was an incredibly good atmosphere. I think there were 20 of us, 20 ex-plas, which ranged from Phil Bill, who played very much in the sort of 60s and sort of early 70s, all the way through to somebody like the Germain Defoe that most would remember. But it was a bringing together of the two ends of the club. Obviously, the ex-plas and, of course, the players are now playing. So it was no big speeches. It was the opportunity to watch training, to meet the manager, to have lunch and meet the players. And remember, for probably the large majority of the ex-plas, these players that today wouldn't have been born when we were playing. So it was a really good opportunity to mix the old with the new, since that little bit of history. And I must admit, it was a really good afternoon. And the modern-day players and the present-day players were very, I think, motivated by it. And I hope it's one that continues over a period of time. And I think it's only good that can come from it. It's crazy to even be able to ask you a question, Chris, because in my formative years as a spurs fan, I watched you play in the 80s. And my dad often spoke fondly about how great a player you was for us. As a manager in your own right, you know, Brighton and Newcastle, what did you make of Deserbie as a person and perhaps his abilities as a manager as someone who can appreciate how much pressure there is that he is under? What do you make of him? Well, I think first and foremost, to take the job at the time that he did, which was, you know, huge pressure itself, because certainly you wouldn't want to be the manager, even if it only for a few games, that takes a club like Tottenham down into the championship. So first and foremost, to take it, shows a lot of confidence from his point of view that he could do the job. And I think it was very much about his confidence of keeping the team up, but what he saw come in this coming season. And I'm quite sure in what you've just spoke about that the funds have been spent and the way that the players have come in this preseason, I think he was aware of that. You know, first job was to keep the club in the division and him knowing that if he could do, he could really have that opportunity to build. But what I know about him is that he's a very demanding coach. Players speak very, very well about him. And of course, we can only get that from the Brighton players because of course he went from there to Marseille. But they speak very well about him, but he's very demanding, not only on his players, but very demanding on his coaching staff, real detail in these training. I think you can see the enthusiasm that he has and the rapport that he has with the players. And it gives him that real, feel good factor. And the fact that players are coming through the door now, I think that that will incredibly lift those spirits in them, change rooms. And I think he's he's the type of coach that you want to play for. In today's day and age, you need to manage who's going to be demanding, but also going to be ruthless. OK, Romero, Jets Benz, big players for Spurs and for Spurs is future. But if you don't want to be here, I don't want you here. You can go. I only want players who are going to be here and to take Spurs forward. So even though Spurs probably needed Jets Benz next season his versatility, I like the fact that that deserves. He's not keeping players who want to leave and he just wants players. He wants to focus on the players who want to play for Spurs Football Club, who want to take Spurs forward. And I think that's probably doesn't happen enough these days. Managers don't have the power. It's more the the people upstairs who are telling players they can't leave. Then the managers got a deal of a play. It doesn't want to be there and the dynamics of that. So I like the fact that this manager has so much power at the football club at the minute. Yeah, also just just on top of that. If I, you know, I mentioned earlier about, you know, the problems, the injury problems that the club had last season that I think very much contributed to the problems of the season. You know, I think what he's he's brought in, particularly if I look in midfield, you know, Tanali Fernandez, both Fernandez, of course, younger, Tanali, still relatively young, Van Hecker, a good age. You know, I'm hoping and thinking that he's brought in what I would be good regardless of not only very good players, but durable players and players that you think can that can play a lot of games because certainly after the last season and still with some, you know, on that treatment table at the moment. And that's one issue that's that deserve a has to deal with is it is integrating the ones that are injured when they're coming back. And of course, the players he's bringing in now. Chris, sorry, I think as well, the Premier League proven players with so many times with Spurs and on the Daniel leave, we see young players, unknown players come in with huge potential, but the fact that they've got the Premier League proven players, there's no adapting phase, they can go straight into it, they know the quality, they know the intensity. It's been such a such a good window for Spurs on so many levels. The interesting thing is, I mean, I look at three, three, two and a half players, certainly Bentancor on Kulosefski. They have not played enough football for Tottenham. And how long do you wait? But it feels so deserving as gone, right, well, I'm here. I've got a remit. I've got to deliver. If you're not going to be going to be part of it, you're not going to be ready. I can't keep waiting for you and hoping that you come good. I'm going to go and sign to worthwhile replacements and he's done that in the shape of Fernandez and Tonali, just one more on that lunch, Chris. Was he strictly a football lunch? Did the suits turn up? We know Vinay Venkatisham has come over from Arsenal and to a lot of criticism. He's taken a lot of flacking in the past year and the Spurs board have really been under it because of the decision they've made. Did they stay away from it? Was it strictly a football? No, it was strictly football. It was a very hot day, actually, so very casual. No speeches. And it also did it also gave a lot of the explainers that hadn't been down to the trainer ground. And it's an incredible training ground, incredible modern training ground. And most of the explainers wouldn't have been there. But it was a really casual atmosphere where a lot of mixing between, say, the ex-players and the modern-day players and the coaching staff. There would be Annie's coaching staff. We were there for a period of time. No speeches and everybody went their own way at the end. But I said it was a really nice atmosphere and everybody that I've spoken to since. Firstly, thought it was well received, came across very well. And again, something that you hope happens again at some stage in the future. Andross, you spent 16 years at Tottenham. You came through the academy while the club was evolving. And I mean, you think that sort of first, sort of, you know, bit of evolution around sort of 2003, 2004, Komole, etc, etc. coming in. Did you ever know, and what's there ever, sort of like an event like this put on, where old and new meet, where the club, you know, sort of recognizes its culture and tries to bring its players into its culture and to sort of understand what it's about? Not to that extent, what Chris is talking about, they kept a few legends close. I think the David Police always floating about on the training ground, a couple of others, but never to that extent. Good to see that the club recognized the former players, the legends like Chris. Yes, great for the family units. Keep everyone together. Yes, great. I'm a little bit disappointed. I didn't get an invite, but been to the training ground many times. But yeah, no, it's good to see the club aside. I think they're a bit too young. Andross, you know, and a few games as well. I only paid the 97, Chris, to your 300 plus. So yeah, maybe I don't qualify. Let's focus on Deserabee and sort of what we can expect from his side on the pitch. He came in towards the end of last season for seven games, winning three, drawing two, to ensure Spurs survival in the Premier League. The message, though, then was very much one of survival. Now with time on his side, a preseason, new faces. How will Roberto Deserabee Spurs be playing? BBC Sports Tactics correspondent, Emetia Farn joins us now. Emetia, good to have you on with us. What have you noticed from Deserabee tactically in preseason? And have there been any radical changes from the Spurs that finished the last one? Yeah, I mean, when you look at Deserabee, I think his first in Abraiton was something that was very transformative to the league and many of the coaches adopted kind of his baiting style of buildup and then punching the passes through the middle of the pitch really quickly. I think what we've seen in preseason is an adaptation and a building upon what he did at the end of last season, which was a more simplistic view, but he didn't come in at the end of last season and simply try and shut up shop and get easy points. He still played in his sort of style of play, which was to build out from the back Kinski was the keeper there who was trusted off of a period, off of the back of a period of bad form, but he's still there and that short buildup is still very key to this side. What I've noticed more that's built upon that is knowing that teams are pressing man for man in a really aggressive manner, more so across the league and in preseason, there's not just the focus of building through the middle, which was a hallmark of his bright insides, but also now how do you build out under pressure using those same ideas in wide areas? The moves tend to finish with the wingers 1v1, so I mean, we might go on to speak about some of this plays they're linked with and some of the plays that can finish off those moves, but it's those same deserving principles now, not only centrally, but through the wide areas to then still arrive in the middle and final third really quickly and really aggressively. I mean, is this sort of game plan, is his strategy all about control rather than making not rash decisions, but playing a bit more direct, playing a bit more long? Yeah, I mean, with deserving, he's, I think a lot of the top coaches kind of have one set style of play in mind and deserving has general sort of principles that you can look at and say, right, that's a deserving team, but there's a really nice quote I've got here and he said a few years ago, when you are building the play, if the rival does not pressure us intensely or wait for us, then we slowly move the ball up the pitch, but when they do pressure us with intensity, then we can make some passes in dribble and play more vertically. So he's a coach who adapts how his team build up and how they play depending on how the opponent defends, which is slightly more reactive, it's slightly more adaptable. And if teams are going to press against him, he enjoys that, he likes that, he, he relishes that challenge to play through them centrally or wide, like we've just mentioned, but if they don't and this will be a bigger challenge for him this season, teams will increasingly sit back and almost ask them to break them down, knowing that those are the things that that deserving likes to do to play through pressure. So how does he then look to break down stubborn defenses that sit lower, who allow them to progress up the pitch, like we've like we've just spoken about? From what I've seen so far, the back in the last season and pre-season, I think he's identified that the key positions to play in his style of play, Van Hecker, gets a lot of the ball in the build-up phase and he's so good at playing those forward passes, then you've got a tonnale as a number six, you've got a Fernandez as a number six, these players get on the ball so much under the Zerbi. Do you think he identified those three positions and identify that he needed those key players in, get them in early so they can start having more control of football matches like they did towards the back end of the last season? Yeah, I think when you look at the rest of the transfer business around the league, the price that they paid at the start moving early probably look fairly good in retrospect, but yeah, with all of those players that you mentioned, you've rightly identified that they're all very progressive players, that the central defenders are really good at bringing the ball up the pitch through really punchy passes through the lines. As soon as their space, they will take that and play to their attacking fielders and their wingers quickly. Tonnale is a slightly different one as is Fernandez where they can do the punchy passing first time and really get your team up the pitch, not letting teams set into a really stubborn block but instead exposing that space, but they're also players who can progress the ball through carrying and dribbling it really, sort of powerfully as an individual player. And I think when we're looking at the players that are getting big moves throughout the league and who are being sort of praised as the most important players for their team, they are players who can accelerate through the middle of the pitch really quickly when that space opens up the likes of Declan Rice, the likes of Nico O'Reilly for Manchester City, for example. So they've almost gone and premier leagueified their side. They've gone for premier league proven players, but they've done so in a way that as soon as deserving, but also matches what the trends of the league have been over the last 12 months. I really appreciate it. Thank you for joining us and giving us that insight on me if I'm BBC's tactics course. Influences and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? Find out by searching for more than a score wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Get more with BBC Podcasts wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire and Your Dead To Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts at free with an Amazon Music subscription. Spurs have spent plenty this summer. We'll discuss the club's finances with football finance expert Keir McGuire soon, but just on the players they've signed, Sandra Tanali coming in for a club record fee of upwards of £92 million. Mattias Fernandez, £85 million, Jean Paul van Hecker, £51 million, Marcus Soneci and Andy Robertson on free transfers, feel like absolute bargains. Plenty of Premier League proven talent there. Just on Soneci and Robertson, you've got someone who's been part of an excellent Bournemouth backline and a really positive Bournemouth atmosphere over the past couple of years. But what about Chris, the winning nature and the fact that Andy Robertson has come in having one pretty much everything out there. What will that do for the dressing room? Well, well, first and foremost, it's no brainer, you know, and this is a quality fallback that has won things that is not, you know, 34, 35 years of age. This is somebody, particularly in that fallback area, that's still capable of having saw the team play at the weekend, still making them sort of marauding runs, set up one of the goals. So I think as regards his level of quality, he still has that. So perfect, I mean, particularly because Udoge, who I think is a good player, good structure about him, good left foot, but of course, has missed too many games over this last couple of seasons. So I think what you've got is you've got somebody that you know you can rely on. But I think also he was brought in for what he's going to give the changing room. And so I've heard so far he's already having an impact, you know, particularly with with the younger players. And I'd say somebody with huge experience. Flav, just on those purchases, what is the feeling from the fan base on the money they've spent and the experience they've brought in? Yeah, I think there's no issue with the money spent because we should have been doing this for a long time, not least the transfer wages, which sorry, the transfer fees, which we have been kind of competing with other football clubs, but it's the wages that entice a player like Robertson to come in in the tail end of his career to come and offer a kind of leadership and quality that he could offer many clubs. And the fact that he's come to spurs and you know, he's a part of our play and staff, but you know, massive influence in addressing him is massive. Yeah, so Sunessi on a free as well, which has been, you know, he was excellent. He was sort of, he had a bad injury, I think a leg break or something similar in in the Bournemouth side when they'd brought in Dean House and as well. So it sort of took his position over, but when those players left, Bournemouth, he came back into the forum, was played brilliantly last season. So yeah, I was really, really happy with him as well, but more over the shift in the experience in the first 11 has been is is massive. And Gallagher was a part of the starter that in January, bringing Robertson in, Madison will be playing in in the dressing room as well. So I think the kind of the the experience in the spurs dressing room is has been ameliorated massively since, you know, a year ago where we were we were a lot of young players trying to find a way in the game. But in terms of the recruitment, it felt very lumpy, very scattered gun in places sometimes. At one point last summer, you sat there and you're wondering what I spurs doing because it felt like they were in for everyone, but also in for no one. And you look at the the manner in which they sign players, it was it was peculiar. It was it was strange. There hasn't been again, I use that word strategy. There hasn't been a defined strategy. But right now it feels there doesn't we we've seen it as well with regards to the departures from the football club, a real sort of shedding of some of the old guard and Christian Romero leads to cure at the exit. Yeah. Um, I guess a year ago he he signed a new contract which was insane. So the I thought he was out the door and then for him to become not only is he signed a new contract, but become the club captain. I just thought that we maybe we are moving in the right direction. And maybe Thomas Frank will be excellent and everything's just going to work out a year later. It's the polar opposite. And Andrew. So I was I went into what I asked you a question about Romero, given the fact that you spent so much time in many dressing rooms. But from a fan base, it looked really bad. When at the end of the season, he decided to go back to Argentina and watch his boyhood club win the league while spurs are potentially getting relegated while being club captain. It seemed bad from our perspective, but as a player, do you think that there was truth in that reality? How would you have responded if your club captain had decided to not be there in such a clutch moment? I think for this difficult because we don't know the ins and outs of it, but I go to that back to one of the last times I was in a relegation battle, uh, Everton. And we had a captain like shame as Coleman, who was injured towards the end of the season, but the role he played off the pitch in galvanising the players and calling team meetings and telling players when they done well, who given their players a kick up the backside when they didn't do so well, he was so instrumental to Everton surviving that season, even though he couldn't play a part towards the end of the season. So to have your club captain, again, we don't know the ins and outs of it, but to have your club captain out of the country in those crucial moments to me, it doesn't it doesn't sit well with me. I know it didn't sit well with you guys as as the fans, but your captain needs to be held to a higher standard than that. Well, what about the rumours that he was potentially heading to Arsenal? There was interest from from Arsenal. I mean, the line I got from from someone's close to Spurs is that he was not for sale at any price to them, but it could have been a sole Campbell 2.0 situation, Fluff. No, no, no, I mean, there will never be that situation ever again that I don't even I'm not even to say his name. It's it's a Romero. If there was a world where Romero joined Arsenal, it would have been a completely different circumstance. However, given the way that the ownership at Tottenham are kind of, you know, it's football first now, they understand that the relationship with the supporters is really important. And if there was any world where they sanctioned a transfer for our club captain again to join them, I think it would have been a right off. In terms of of of the outgones, we're going to talk spending in a moment or so with with Keir McGuire for the finance expert, but on on Vuskovich, who's got the better end of the deal here Spurs with Van Hecker or Brighton with one of Europe's best centre half prospects. And I ask that because Tony Bloom is is someone who loves the gamble. We know that he's a very smart cookie. He would have done his homework on him. He would have done his homework on it, but it's from both clubs' point of view, it's the needs of now. And I've got no doubt that the only reason why he's been allowed to go is because the head coach deserve he wanted a player for now. And there was an opportunity to bring Van Hecker in. He can only play two centre halves at one given time. And I think Tony Bloom and Brighton saw an opportunity. They will develop him, like this, this I'm quite sure. And I'm quite sure also that there's perhaps something in the package there that doesn't damage Tottenham too much. But I expect Brighton to develop him. They don't tend to make too many wrong decisions. They have a head coach who's done an incredible job the last couple of seasons. He's been there. But I think it's very much Tottenham hot spurt for now. And Van Hecker was the choice. Football Finance expert Keir McGuire joins us. Keir and good evening. Good evening, guys. £28 million spent by Spurs so far this window. Yes, they've recouped some money as well. The second in the league, though, in terms of spending behind Chelsea. The question so many will have is that after consecutive 17th place finishes, how are the club affording to spend as much as they are? And I have a feeling the answer may lie heavily in that thing called the Tottenham hot spurt stadium. That's right. I think what Spurs have done is that they future-proofed the ability of the club to be competitive regardless of whether they're successful on the pitch or not. So if you take a look at their commercial income, that's quadrupled since the move from the old white heartlighting. If you take a look at their matchday income, that's tripled. And those are the figures we've got for 24-25 when the club was only playing in the Europa League. And you'll be able to go and charge much higher prices. So it doesn't matter to Taylor Swift. It doesn't matter to Anthony Joshua. It doesn't matter to Chris Ubank, Jr., where Spurs are in the table. They are wanting to play at the stadium because it brings, yeah, it's a fantastic venue. It's built for commercial activities. And I think it was quite visionary of Daniel Levy to go down that route. Now I appreciate there are footballing issues, which was outside of my remit, which could be criticized about. But in the case of being 21st century, I don't think there's a better example of a club that has really thought things through. And that means that problems on the pitch and poor finishes in the table, and it cost you £3 million a place. So let's say that Spurs would have normally expected to finish fifths or six. It's cost them £30 million down in terms of price money from the Premier League. But on the plus side, they've got another sort of £300 million coming in from ticket sales and commercial. I mean, I don't think you could have a deny. Daniel Levy was, as it was always a thinker, he was very, very prudent in what he's done. Does this sort of stadium revenue, and you look at the figures commercial revenue gone from £73 million to £277 million per matchday revenue from £45 to £126 million, does this really sort of put in the groundwork and the foundations for what will Spurs fans will hope will be inevitable success in the future? Well, it gives them the ability to be successful. Now, making the right decisions in terms of recruitment, that comes down to the recruitment team, that comes down to the relationship between the director of football, the sports, science, people, and Roberto deserving. And that might work, it might not work, but you can't do that unless you have a budget to do so. And I'm looking at the numbers here, and you have seven years, well, eight years out of the last nine, Spurs have spent more than £100 million in a single season on player recruitment. So it's not necessarily the amount of money that's been spent. It's how well it's been spent, and has there been a structure, has there been a strategy for player recruitment? And again, yeah, that's outside of my remit, but the money has been spent at the same time. They've got no problems whatsoever in terms of compliance with the cost controls, because they're only spending 45% of their revenue on wages. So that gives them the capacity to recruit players on on better deals this season, and still maintain their position within the rules, even though they're not competing in Europe. Flav, Daniel Leaves had a lot of criticism for the commercialisation of that stadium and off the field issues, but do some of windows like this where, like Kieran said, Spurs are able to still compete with the top sides in this country, even though they just avoided relegation. So some of us like this really start to turn the fans opinion a little bit on the Daniel Leaves era and the foundations he was able to set up for the future. Yeah, yeah, almost certainly. I think he did an interview with Gary Neville for the stick to football podcast, and Daniel Leaves said that they'll perhaps remember me fondly when I'm gone, and there's no doubt as Kieran has clearly explained that we are set up to be able to financially compete, even if we finish 17. So I think from some sections in the fan base, they were frustrated with what Daniel Leaves had done previously, and that we weren't ambitious and made us more into an entertainment company than a football first focus in football club. So it was always that frustration. I said earlier on that the irony of us being able to spend what we do based on Daniel Leaves' work would be that if he was still in charge, he wouldn't have spent the money. And I think that's, I think that the Enic and the Lewis family probably made the right decision time will tell, but made the right decision to remove him and so they could be more proactive in bringing players in that can return success because the reality is that Tottenham Watts' fans have been made to pay the most expensive season tickets in Britain and probably in Europe, maybe the world, and the return was to 17th place finishes. So the frustration was justified. However, you have to respect the work that Daniel Leaves put in. Sure. Kieran, I want to ask you about PSR sort of being out the door and this sort of new framework coming in as well. But just on a wider question about the Premier League, are other clubs looking at Spurs, what they've done with the stadium, what they've achieved, and thinking if we are to die at the top table, we're going to have to do something with the money we're making on the other five to six days a week that the stadium is empty. I mean, you look at us and they'll redevelop in the north stand. There's been talks of a new stadium for Newcastle United as well. Is this the method now that that clubs are looking into? Absolutely. I think Spurs have set a gold standard in how it should be done. Anybody that goes to the stadium and the way fans are home fanning hospitality comes away with the first time you go there, your jaw genuinely drops to the floor. It is some magnificent piece of architecture. It's significant spending. There's not been corners cut anywhere as you've seen historically with some of the grounds. And the downside of that, of course, is that the fans are expected to pay top tier prices for a top tier stadium and therefore they expect a top tier return from what they see on the pitch. But I can assure you that every time I talk to clubs or people connected to clubs or fan groups, it's how can we increase revenues? Because there's been a complete mindset now under the new squad cost ratio rules, which came into play on the first of July. All fans now. Everybody connected with the club knows for every extra million pounds that you bring in. You can spend 850,000 on player costs. Whether that's wages, whether that's transfer fees, whether that's agents fees, but it all goes into that same pot. So turning clubs and footballs are dumb business in many ways. What are the businesses do you know that are open 20 to 25 days a year? Well, spurs have shown that through conferencing, through having other sporting facilities, other activities, that you can make it a multi-function, multi-sport entertainment complex of which the football club is the focal point and the football club is the beneficiary of all of this additional revenues. Then it has to be spent well and then that comes down to the football side of the club to do that. Tell us about this new sort of, you know, this financial framework that we're going to see coming this year. Right. Well, you've got the way that it works, every hundred pounds you bring in, you can spend 85% of that if you're a non-European competing club and if you're playing in UEFA, you're down to 70%. So more money in means more money spent on players. Karen, thank you so much as ever. Karen McGuire, football finance expert with us on five-life sport this evening. Now, before we finish, let's look at Spurs' forward options. It's been a great window, but attacking reinforcements are perhaps a one area where we haven't seen as much action through the door. Just looking at the forwards in the squad, Richard Larson, Salanky, Scarlett, Kudas, Mikey Moore, Oderbeer, Tell, we know Zavi Simmons is out with an ACL injury, James Madison has experienced injury problems. Are we seeing Roberto Deserbie Chris putting down a marker and saying, Dominic Salanky is going to be his, his main man, this, this coming season because they're not in the market for, for an out and out forward. Or are they? Well, I don't know. I think we all know that the problem with Dominic Salanky is not, it's not the ability that he's got. It's playing games on a regular basis and he missed so much of last season. For me personally, if he was somebody that you could rely on being physically fit, he's somebody that would score goals. You know, from the games that I've seen so far this preseason, there's been certainly a lot of efforts that have gone in from the flanks, Robert's, I think in the last game, the weekend game, I think all three goals were designed from wide areas and crosses from wide areas. Richard Larson getting on the end of one of them. And I think if that's a way of playing, we tonight spoke about a way of playing, breaking through midfield, fast through midfield, but the efforts were for wide areas and we need to be more prolific in them areas. And I think it's just a question of having somebody that's durable enough. And if if that happens to be the case with Salanky, then I think he's a really good option, a really good option. Flav, looking at the options you've got in there, there's plenty. There's a lot of talk about Mikey Moore, with with we could have still been injured. Can he come in and and sort of you know, stake a claim for a first team place? What about Bull Lancashire though, because I mean, covering the the NFL, he is probably the most talked about player in the championship right now. Forget anyone else. It's the fact that Middlesbrough be being able to bag him. And that he looks quality. Why did it not work for him at Spurs? He didn't work for him because he was young and probably wasn't at the level to play for the first team. He spent big money on Salanky and mattress and still there. There's just no route through. It's like when we had Harry Kane, there was no chance to buy a backup striker that knew that he wasn't going to pay. Perhaps Laurenti was the best example of that. And Lancia had to he had to move in order to get football. He had a great season with Oxford last year. Their fans loved him. And Middlesbrough they've spent big money on bringing in a player to play in the championship. It was 10 million. But if they get promoted, it's going to be upwards of upwards towards 20 million. So I mean, I just I love that. I love the fact that he's going there. He's gone to the championship and he's scoring goals and he's being effective. It was just I don't think it was ever going to work. I mean, he's 21 years old. Fernandez is also 21 years old. You're even good enough at that level or you've got to be lucky. And I just think it was the right time for him to move. I don't have any issue with that at all really. But I'll show I think that there doesn't need to be such a reliant on number nine. If you've you know, if you've got a Javi Simmons fit, a Madison fit, a Kudas fit, an older boat who who broke into the side the last season and I thought started really well in that wide area. And I think if you've got them their options around you nine, then I think there's there's not the pressure than and the obvious need to have that that number nine that's as prolific as what you'd want him to be. Chris, you just touched on on it there. But my question is going to be you said you can't rely on a Dominic Salanki for his fitness. What about a Richarlison? Because for me, I played within and I watched him last season for spurs. He does absolutely everything right. He's all energy. He chases loose balls. He's always running in behind. He starts to press very well. But for a top side, if you as the manager, is his lack of goals a worry? Would you be worried about that relying on Richarlison for his lack of goals? Yeah, I think it would be a worry, depending if if you said to me, well, my two number nine's are going to be a fit Salanki and a fit Richarlison with, you know, the options around that I said are Kudas in in the wide area at a Madison. Then I think there's some really good offensive options in. But I think, you know, as you just alluded to, if you are relying just on a Richarlison for goals, you know that he's not going to get you them that volume of goals. He's tall as Manik. He's a bit of a nomad, isn't he? Richarlison, he likes to be the man and to drive them forward. But what about the players they've been rumored to be bringing in Andrews, Cody Gattpo, and this Savinio talk, it just does not go away. I think they're both probably short-term options because especially on the right hand side, look at Savinio, he'll bring a lot to spurs, don't get me wrong, but you've still got Kudas to come back. Kulessevsky, is he going to come back anytime soon? Is he going to get up to speed? And then on the left hand side, you've got Javi Simmons at some point this season, hopefully he'll come back. Madison's going to look to come back. He might play in a 10 or he might play off the left. You've got Tell. So I don't think, I think Cody Gattpo, probably the only one who can bring something different to those guys, we're of Savinio, yes, he'll get joy in the early parts of the season. But once everyone's fit, is he still number one choice? I don't know, I don't know. Flav, just finally on transfers, where are your priorities going into last what, 10, 12 days of the window? I mean, Savinio has been linked for so long. It's interesting to hear Andrew's thoughts on that because Gattpo is probably less popular in coming in as Savinio is. It's the number nine for me. I think Salunky's not fit. If he isn't fit, if he can play, if you get 40 games out of him, obviously there's no problem. We've got a number nine who's easily good enough to lead the line in a Premier League. If he isn't fit and it's for and then no one, then the number nine situation looks problematic. The issue, though, is you look across the market and we've discussed this earlier in the podcast. What number nine is out there early on in the season? There was in the summer that we were linked with Crew P's broken his foot, so it's not going to be that. I think it's going to be a challenge. We had a conversation about who would you keep from this perspective, from this moment, if you had to sell one, Richard Larson or Salunky, who would it be? We plumped for not in terms of quality, but in terms of reliability, Richard Larson. We want Salunky to be back, but we just can't trust him to be. Just to bring it around, let's have some final season predictions. First question is what would constitute success for Spurs this season? Andrew has come to you first. I think the business they've done in the summer and the manager, and the fact they've got no European football. I don't see why we can't be aiming for a Champions League place and going far in the cup competitions. I don't think the last two seasons should put us off. I think Champions League should be the aim still. I would say chasing Europe. I'm not sure I see Champions League after the last couple of seasons and of course with some of the injuries that are still there, but the club have spent big money and they've got a coach that's incredibly ambitious. If Michael Carrick can take a man United side that was floundering and not improve him, and improve him the way that he did, then Derby, given the money we spent, can definitely finish third or fourth this season. Right. I wanted a prediction. You said third or fourth. Andrew? I'm going to say fifth, but Champions League plays. I would say probably fifth or sixth. I would say. Stroke the touching on Champions League, but maybe Europa. Just finally, very quickly, Flav, your chance to last Chris won about the 84 UEFA Cup win. Go, go. I didn't think I'd get a chance to do this. So, yeah, so it's me and my dad when I was a kid, and he would put on the VHS of that night, and I just went to ask you about the moment, because he went to, it was against Andelec's UEFA Cup final, and Danny Thomas missed the penalty, and my dad described this and you played in this game. My dad described it as the greatest atmosphere he's ever experienced the way I lay in. When the Spurs fanbase got behind Danny Thomas, as he missed the penalty, and you heard one Danny Thomas echo around what I lay in. I just wondered if you had any memories of that. No, it was, it was, it was an incredible moment, and one, of course, we felt for Danny, because you know, I only was a very good player, but he was a very popular player. But of course, that moment only lasted for a moment, and of course Tony Parks then got us out of trouble as such. But for me, in an incredible night, because now, of course, that that final is a one-legged final, and to play that final or two-legged final, and the second leg at White Art Lane, when the club, of course, had been devoid of the European trophy for a few years, was something, and probably, you know, if I look at my moments at the club, particularly at the old stadium, that would be for me the one that I would remember the most. There you go, Chris Andross Flav, thank you so much for joining us. He serves to the centre, and we're going to do it. On the right hand, and before the champion is down, it's an extraordinary start. They've done a show for us tonight. He gets on his knees, and kisses the door. Five lives thought. The home of the world's greatest sporting events. The full time with them. Listen on BBC Sound. Influencers and content creators have been making headlines at the US Open, but how important are they to tennis? 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