Anatomy of a Collapse: USMNT European Trajectories, MLS Depth, and Grassroots Governance

Hi, hello, welcome to your favorite average to good podcast call what you want. I'm Jimmy Conrad alongside Charlie Davis and Tony Mjola and we have a fantastic show for you today. Our second one in a week for the first time in a month and we're very excited about it. We're going to look at the seven Americans competing in this season's Champions League phase, including an unlikely duo playing in Austria. That'll be a fun story to get into. We haven't even more and more recognizable names of Americans in the Europa League. I don't know what that means, but we'll get into it. Speaking of which, the Bundesliga kicks off this weekend. Well, Joe Scali be there. Apparently his club was like, you're out, buddy, go, good luck with what's next. And then Middlesbrough officially are adopted European club because another American is signed for them. There's four Americans at Middlesbrough. We got plenty of time to that. We of course want to thank you for hanging out with us here and call what you want, whether you're with us live on YouTube, watching the Gloss of Network or listening to us on the pod cast. All right, guys. Tony, it's great to see you. It's always, are you in Scottsdale? Where are you now? No, I'm in LA. Last day in LA. I'll be head back to Florida. Yeah. Yeah, everything's going well. Great. Passing all the tests. I passed all the tests. Yeah, I passed them all. They're all good. It's nice to know that you remember these things, Jimmy, you know, I had Scottsdale on the brain because we were talking about, hey, you tell us, are you golfing at home or what? No, that'll be tomorrow, Chuck. That'll be tomorrow. You can I listen. Chuck, listen, I did listen because you made fun of me for not combing my hair in the last episode and I comb my hair this time around. What's not to be? It's not. It's not going to be longer or thicker, but still there on the top of my head. You got some nice product in there, I can see. Yeah, yeah. Added a little bit of spice today. I'm also wearing my sporting Kansas City kit because we are the worst team in the league and I had to give some love to my former club. Even though we're making a ton of signings and probably overpaying for players all over the place, but hell, you got to do something, right? To try to get off the bottom of the table. Yes, Jimmy. It's just D.D. Chuck, where are you? Doesn't look like you're in the normal spot. I'm in Dallas, the US Youth Soccer Symposium. It's almost a little bit historic or could be because this is the start of bringing everybody to the table to try to make the sport more accessible across our country to make it more safe to figure out ways for everyone to collaborate so that we can be a nation that understands how to produce talent, but also how to develop young human beings so that they're set up for success in life. I love that. Now, are you trying to tell me, though, we're getting all the boats to row in the same direction? Like, we're actually trying to make that happen? We are actually trying to have those type of conversations and the thing is, it can't be solved in one weekend or one day or in one week, right? But it's the start of having these conversations that we can all start to move in the same direction, start to align, start to come up with creative ways to help our youth and to, you know, because at the top of the pyramid, right? It's less than 1% that make it to the national team and play in a World Cup. But there's millions of kids that play the sport. So yes, we want to create more incredible players and different types of player profiles with different types of ethnicities and do all that. But at the very base of it, can we have a system that helps kids grow, develop, feel safe, build confidence, teamwork, and set them off, set them off for success? Wow. Talk by Minds Melting over here. So you're saying we want to get aligned. And then additionally, we're putting player development above making money. There's just no way. What is happening this weekend at Dallas? That's what's happening. So if you're in Dallas, let's get to this event this week. There's a number of things. But we're trying to make sensible decisions for the message of the kids and for the sport in this country. That is wild. Well, this is the kicker. There's a big vote this Saturday. And that is for US soccer to basically get back to being at the top of the pyramid and controlling or helping run US youth soccer. So I think that's now we're talking about having everybody be in line from after school programs, recreational programs, town programs, club programs, elite pathways, but everybody is all in it together. We're all in it. It's not here, here, silo here, silo here, silo here, you know. I'm very curious as to how they want to use former players like us in this the sea change as it were to get everybody back on the same page. That is awesome news. All right, let's get into the show. So Americans in the Champions League. So there was some plans, right? There's Europe. No, well, there is your public qualification, but there's also champions in qualification. And we had a couple crazy plans, second legs, okay? So last, the Austrian team with two Americans on it, Sam Adirnaran and George Bello, okay? Celtic, listen, Celtic were up 4-0, so you had Austin trustee, Cameron Carter-Vickers. They were up 3-0 after leg one in Glasgow. They go up. They score the first goal in the second leg, 4-0. Last, come back and score four goals to make it 4-4. And then Adirnaran scores an extra time and they win 5-4. Last goes through. Celtic, an absolute capitulation. Listen, as a former center back in tones, I want to get your thoughts on this as well. Because center back can see the whole field, right? They set the line, they can help impact how we press, where we press, when we press. I put a lot of responsibility on these guys. Trustee and Cameron Carter-Vickers for not helping manage the game. Now I know there's 11 players on the field, but be based on where they've sit. They have a lot of influence on what that looks like, especially the line. You start dropping off, you just invite a lot of pressure. And when I watched a portion of this game, I just couldn't believe that Celtic let this get away. And it wasn't just a couple goals here and there. They got absolutely run over this whole game. And it could have been more than four goals. And so it makes me question, Cameron Carter-Vickers and trustee, in terms of these little details to help win, this is unacceptable. It's my big, my big word, the Oakland Roots players know this. When I say something's unacceptable, I'm pissed. And this is unacceptable from these particular guys. So from a goalkeeper's perspective, you put the same type of responsibility on these centerbacks, or do you think I'm maybe being a little bit too harsh? Yeah, if you want anyone to watch this, it felt like for Celtic, it felt like a runaway train, right? You just couldn't catch up. And then you started to feel the momentum and you're thinking yourself, there comes that point, we're okay. Last guest themselves back in it, and there's no way, right? There's no way this can happen. And then that's where the runaway train happens. And I think we've all been involved in sort of games like that. This was a complete capitulation by them. No organization, nobody stepping up. I think that's probably what you're sort of referring to. Like, who's the guy that took charge of everything and said, okay, let's, I don't know, let's make a change. Let's do something different on the field. Let's, and Martin O'Neill after the game was really straight forward and his assessment of the group. But now you've got two other guys on the other side of the field that are Americans that will watch and then are on in Georgia Bella, who, honestly, I lost track at Georgia Bella. Georgia Bella was on track from like the youth national teams all the way to like, we were talking about, we've got a, we've got a left back for the future, the way it was playing. And I kind of lost track of them if I'm being honest. Similar to Caleb Wiley at the moment, right? Which is what he said. It's another one of situation, right? Yeah, yeah, the same, same thing, Chuck. And, and Adeniron is a guy that when he left St. Louis, I was like, why are they getting rid of this guy? Like, because he doesn't press the same way you want him to. So he clearly, he's now gone over there and he's done some things. And, but it's good to see those two guys go back. But I think the bigger concern Jimmy is what you're addressing. And you got two center backs that you're kind of looking. Are they going to be national team guys for a long time? That you can't just put it on them, but certainly you were expecting something to like, somebody to put the brakes on and it didn't happen. Yeah, one of the things we talk about and kind of is getting into soccer nerd territory, Chuck, is when you lose momentum in a game, what do you do to regain that? That's a skill that's an individual, I say individual because you have to have individuals like Tony's saying to, to understand the situation and the moment and figure out ways to put your foot on the ball, they'll slow it down or you're pressing your line to compact the field. So you're turning the ball up higher and getting your team in better situations to potentially regain that momentum. But when you're coaching your little guys, or when you're thinking about when you're analyzing, Chuck, just for everybody that maybe hasn't felt this at the highest levels, let's say, but how do you regain momentum when you've lost it? What are you thinking about as a coach? And what were you thinking about as a player? Momentum within the game or just momentum in general? Like, all of a sudden, you're on Celtic right now, and the runaway train is here, and you can feel it, but there are teams and players that know how to regain that very quickly. So you're saying at the moment now that you're out of champion's league? No, I'm staying right now in game. So now you're down, it's two or three zero, and you're like, shit, if last score is another one, they're going to tie this, we're going to the next shot. Like, what kind of things are you doing? Or what would you be teaching your players to help? Yeah, so that type of momentum. I find that really fascinating the momentum thing. I don't think there's one particular way to do it. I think it's multifaceted and what I mean by that is, it's a throw-in, you know, and the ball gets kicked a little bit further away, and you have a moment to maybe look over to your teammate or partner and say, hey, it's all right, which is, let's keep going. Don't worry about it. Maybe there's an injury. You get to bring guys together. Guys, let's bring it in quick. You know, talk it out. Hey, we're not that far off from getting back in the game. All it takes is one through ball, because this player is out of position, or this player is pushing high. Hey, the keeper's off his line. Next time, just look to try and chip them from 45-50 yards out. Just take a chance. Let's play a little bit more in behind. Let's be a little bit high. But those constant conversations throughout the game, and then sometimes it's like just taking the initiative and just smashing a guy and saying, come on, guys. And whatever it is, but there are little moments. And I think for every player in particular, there's different sparks that I think get the most out of players. It might be a reaction. It might be, you know, patting somebody on the back. It might be taking risks or chances in places that maybe you typically wouldn't, but doing something in those moments to try and galvanize the group. And I think it's lead by example. It's, you know, you have the leaders who like to chirp and talk. You have the coaches who, you know, take a second to get people in. But there are a number of different ways. And I don't think it's just one that usually works. Sure. But yeah, it's... This is kind of a tease of the league scupper as well. You have MLS teams. Oh my gosh. We'll get into that moment. No, no way. Benny Phil Hopper was trying to tell me that MLS team... I said, there's not gonna be one. There's not gonna be one in the semi-finals. Let alone the finals. He said, there's gonna be one in the finals. Are you crazy? You moved the game to Mexico, all of a sudden things get a little bit more difficult. All right. So let's talk Tanner Tessman. Tanner Tessman was also in a play-in game with Leon and he got the start, played 76 minutes. I really like Tess. I like watching Tanner play. I just really simple, right? And it doesn't... It's quietly simple. And I thought that Fender... Look, leave him aside. Fender Bacha ended up coming in and winning that one, 2-1. And I thought they had their urgency. And we're playing a little bit more on the front foot than Leon Leon Leon. This is leg two. It was one, one after leg one in Turkey. Fender Bacha ends up winning 2-1 in this one. But it was nice to see Tanner get the start. But I thought Fender actually were the better team. And well, driving for most of it, obviously when Leon got to the end, there was a little bit more urgency. They were starting to ask more questions, but ultimately Fender held on. Now that leads to the Champions League phase. The draw is gonna be happening today live on the Gloucester Network at 12 p.m. Eastern. And we have Johnny Cardoso is gonna be in it with Athletico Madrid, even though he's played zero minutes. Alex Freeman is gonna be in it with Villarreal. Hopefully you can find some minutes in this competition. Ricardo Pepi and Serginio Desz at PSV, Matisse Albert, Baruchia Dortmund. Let's just say this is not the most compelling. No, it's not. And the two guys from last. So, so. You wrote the league. Here we come, baby. We got you wrote the league. Yeah, you're gonna get it. Right now though. So that's not your typical crop of players, big tones, that we can expect to see in the Champions League. Do you think this is good or bad from like a U.S. men's national team perspective? It's not good when Christian and Weston and you know, all those guys aren't, they're not playing and flow, they're not playing in Champions League. That's kind of what sort of elevated a lot of those players games. Christian may be a little bit different because he's been doing it a little bit longer. But yeah, no, it's not good. It's good, obviously, for George Bello and Adeneron and those guys. But no, it's not good. Ricardo Pepi continues to do what he does. A little bit surprised actually that he's still where he is at the moment. Will we see maybe Mattis Albert get an opportunity in Champions League, that stuff is positive. But not seeing those other guys in Champions League at the highest level because that's what we talk about all the time is not great. Having said that, we're at the beginning of the cycle. So I'm hoping at the end of the four year cycle, like their teams are playing in Champions League and they're sharper again and all of that. But there's not a lot they can do. They'll be playing European competition, especially the Cedigah guys. But you want to see the Timothy way as. Guys like that, we've seen them be it a club and score against Real Madrid. I think that was match day one last year or match day two, whatever it was. And yeah, you need to see more of that because that's kind of where we set that sort of standard, like that's been the expectation. All right, let's talk. Chuck, I want to get your thoughts on this. Wait, I got it before we do that. Chishan in the comments here said, Peppy Deft should have moved. I want to address that. So Ricardo Peppy, I think him and his agent, finally, we're on the same page and moved about this transfer window the right way. Because we've seen it early in his career. His agent comes out and it has been very vocal and it just hasn't worked. He wanted to move to the Premier League, right? And Fulham was the club that were after his signature. At the end of the day, it didn't work out because of the fees, whatever the issue was in the end. But at the end of the day, you don't just move to move. He's in a great spot. He's going to be the top goal scorer for PSV. There's no rush in the sense of panicking and going into a spot where all of a sudden, the manager doesn't trust you or doesn't never approved of your signing and you go to a spot and they're not playing a style that suits you or there's competition in front of you and then you end up in a spot where he came into PSV where Luke Dionne being the captain in his position. So for me, you wait for the right opportunity. PSV is still, PSV, there's still champions like these still playing quality matches. I know you're saying challenge yourself. Yeah, he's challenging himself himself. He plays in Champions League and he has to prove himself every year and every time he's stepping in the Champions League and you score, you're playing for a potential move. So he is challenging himself. One thing I'd like to add to that, Chuck. Close to what our players to elevate and continue to push themselves, but you don't just move to move. But I think what's interesting about Riccardo Peppie, had he gone earlier and gone to Fulham, right? That's where all the talk was. He was going to go to Fulham, go to the Premier League and I understand wanting to play in that competition for sure. But Marco Silva was the manager that was going to sign him. Right? Now this season comes, Marco Silva's gone. He's at Benfica, they brought in Alvaro Arboloa who immediately signed Gonzalo Garcia, right? So all of a sudden we'd be like, oh man, Riccardo Peppie makes his move but he's not Arboloa's guy. Gonzalo Garcia is Arboloa's guy. So all of a sudden we, oh Peppie's in Fulham, he's playing for Premier League and he'd be sitting behind Garcia because that's who Arboloa trusts. Not to say Riccardo couldn't have earned that trust in that respect over time. I'm sure he would have, because he didn't think. However, you go with the guys you trust and Arboloa coached him at Real Madrid B, right? And obviously got to coach with them a little bit with Real Madrid. So he's just a player he trusts. So that just could have been a really shitty situation very quickly and so I wanted to bring that in. That's like a bit of a sliding doors moment. So maybe he actually, and his agent did a nice job of not going to Fulham right away and would have played out the way that we all hoped and wanted. So we'll see. I mean, if he has a nice start to the season and he starts off the Champions League and the league phase at a good rate because he does a nice job in this competition, scored against some big clubs over the years, then maybe he makes a move in January to another club where he would be. Yeah, that's a villa. That's a villa. Yeah, that's a villa. I don't know what's going on with Villa. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they're like sporting Kansas City the Premier League. We had to buy people. He's got to buy as many people as we can. No, no, that's true. They're actually better than the actual one. Yeah, that's a far. That's where the atmosphere is. All right, all right, all right. Okay, so let's talk about the Europa League, the second competition in Europe. And we made a nice photographic for this. Marisa Pochettino saying, get ready to learn Europa League, buddy, which is a play on the NBA commissioner, and Adam Silver. So here's a big name, Americans in Europa League. We'll start with the manager, Pellegrino Marrata, so Real Sociedad off to a tough start in La Liga. They lost Betis and Real Madrid yesterday in Bapé, Patrick, very nice. Christian Pulisix in it, Unis Musa, with Melaun, you got Weston McKenny with the Juventus, Chris Richards, and Zabre Goso, who just scored for the U21s, Crystal Palace. They'll be involved in this competition as well. Tyler Adams with Bournemouth, unless he makes a move. Tim Wea, new captain of Marseille, will be in it, and Leak Tillman with Bayer Levicusen, Austin Truss, C and Cameron Carter, Vickers with Celtic and Tanner Tessmann as well, Brian Reynolds. I should throw in Brian Reynolds as well. He's another one that kind of falls into that kale of Wiley. What happened to those guys? And George Bell are like, oh, they resurfaced. And so now we can potentially see him getting some minutes in the Europa League as well. What are we thinking about this competition overall? Tones, I'll come to you first on this. Do you think Melaun can make a deep run? Do you think Juventus are one of the favorites? Obviously, there's a lot of games, and the Leak Faces eight games, and all that good stuff. But I assume these clubs are walking into this going, hey, this is a trophy we think we can compete for. No doubt about it. When you got these big names, we've seen this now the last couple of years, right? These big name clubs in Europa League. So if you're a Melaun, if you're Juventus, of course, you have to think about winning this thing. Of course, you're a massive club. You think you should be in Champions League. You don't get it done. Crystal Palace making the jump from conference league after winning that into this. I think the Premier League teams in general, they've spent so much more over the years, over the last couple of years in particular, than these teams. I think they inherently become the favorites in this competition all the time. I'm not sure for this year, though. Yeah, this is just hard. You're too deep, Chuck. A born myth is not, you know, you've been stripped of the manager. Yeah, they've been stripped a little bit. Crystal Palace, they might be fighting for survival. You know, you go into this competition this year. Pop one teams, Viral Everkusen. I wouldn't consider them a favorite, you know, are they top four potentially? Benfica, Yuve, Milan, Alkmar, Limpiacos, Fenerbahce, Real Sociedad, and Marseille. Those are your pop one teams. Those are the expected teams to make a deep run. But if you're Milan or Yuve, you better be thinking about winning this competition. One, it's a major trophy and two, you're guaranteed Champions League anyway. So for me, Milan and Juventus are weird in this, Chuck, because they cannot afford, when I say afford, I mean, financially afford, not to be in Champions League next year. So if you're gonna throw all your eggs into this basket at the risk of maybe doing again on match day 38 with both what both of these teams did last year, man, that's a tricky road for them to navigate, man. It's kind of like, we're taught them, right? We're taught them new, they were gonna be struggled and league, but like, we gotta win this competition. Yeah, but, but, but, it's not like for like, but I'm just saying. Yeah, the difference in money for the Tottenham has even, even in two 17th place finishes compared to Milan and Juventus is the numbers are astronomical. Like, the difference is crazy. So I don't know that they can, they can risk, you know, throwing all their eggs in this basket. But like with the Bournemouth, Chuck, you still look at them and I'm like, I still think the Premier League teams should all be in the top eight of this competition when it's all said, and then in the end, you're gonna, you know, we know what it looks like in the knockout phases, right? Anything can happen, but I still think they're the teams that are always gonna compete now for these competitions because the disparity is so big between these clubs. I don't know, like with Sunderlin, Sunderlin, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, none of those teams are convincing enough for me to go. I get the money to have deep rosters, but this isn't a Aston Villa playing in the Europa League, or a massive club where we've seen in the past that somehow ends up in Europa League and they are the clear favorites to win. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting, this Europa League, and obviously we have a lot of players playing in it. So that's probably the competition. We'll be watching the most. That's on Thursdays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays are reserved for the Champions League. As a reminder, all these games are up there. I'll just check on Thursdays. Yeah, we're gonna be watching a lot of Chuck on Thursday. A lot of Chuck time, a lot of Chuck Jason Chuck, a lot of Chichings, for sure. We got some sound effects now. Probably heard a few of those along the way. All right, we're gonna take our first break of the show. When we come back, we got the Bundesliga kicking off. We got some Americans playing in that competition, so we'll give you a little preview. Keep it right here. All right, welcome back into the show. I'm Conrad Dino alongside Chuck Wagon. I haven't said that one in a while in big tones. And we wanna get into the Bundesliga. We got some notable Americans in the German competition, which Byron Munich had won 13 out of the last 14 seasons. The only time they didn't win it recently was in Byron Leverkusen had to go undefeated and not lose any games to win that. That was under Javier Lanzo, who's now at Chelsea. Now, there was only one loss for Byron Munich last year, so we can pretty much just say they're going to win it once again under Vincent Company. Three years in charge, most likely be a three time champion of this league in Germany. All right, so we got Malik Tillman, playing for Byron Leverkusen. We talked about him a little bit. We'll get into him a little bit more. He got Noah Kai Banks from Augsburg called Campbell while Elversburg making a move from Dortmund to get some playing time. Leonard Maloney and Mints, though, I don't know how much he's starting for Mints since he made the move. Joe Scally, Munchen Gladbach, as we mentioned at the beginning, he's most likely going to be out of the club. They've said that his future looks a little bleak, so he should maybe find a new situation. And Matisse Albert at Dortmunds. And he's one of our younger players really excited about him. We'll get into him in a little bit. Let's talk about Joe Scally, though. His resume is pretty ridiculous. And Chuck will come to you on this one. Why do you think, actually, I know that Gladbach signed two writebacks, and so there's really no room for him. The sporting director came out and said, he should look for a new situation. But he's got a lot of experience and has played in a lot of big games. He's got 167 appearances in all competitions for Munchen Gladbach, five goals, nine assists. They finished 10th and Bundesliga three times for anybody that's into finishing 10th. That is, he reached 150 Bundesliga matches. The youngest non-German to do that, 23 years old, and 116 days. Do you think he's just run his race? Maybe it's good for both parties. Chuck, for him to make a move. And where do you think he's going to go? Which clubs out there? Is it just kind of mid-table on a different league? Do you think he'll stay in Germany? One, I would say, it wasn't a failure for him. I mean, it's time to go, but it definitely was not a failure. He has been exemplary for the club, five seasons, and with one Bundesliga club. And for me, it's just like the end of a cycle. Where he didn't progress is the attacking play, right? We always come back to it. Is he a good enough defender? Can he run? Can he keep up with players? Yes, but when you're talking about taking the necessary risk to get forward, and then what do you do when you get the ball going forward, that's where he has not developed in the way that you would expect or hope. So at this point, now he just needs to go somewhere where he's going to be valued and going to be trusted to play. He's still young. That's the crazy part. So for me, I'm sure there are a number of clubs that need a steady right back who has shown that he can hang with a top level competition. Now, he's played in two World Cups. Well, he didn't play in 2022, but he's on two World Cup rosters, got to play twice in 2026. What if we hit the ceiling with Joe Scally? I'm just Jim, I can't believe you say that, because I'm just wondering. That's exactly what I'm saying. Are we at the ceiling with him? I'm a little bit surprised and to Chuck's point, maybe they just realize, OK, we've given this five years to see if the attacking part of the game will improve to a point where, look, one thing I think we realize or think about when we talk about Bundesliga, we talk about wing backs or full backs that are always getting into the attack. It's the one league that there is very similar styles between all of the teams in the way that they approach the game. It's been sort of the thing we've spoken about with Joe Scally, can he get forward? Can he be part of the attack? You don't have to make the game from that position, but you certainly got to be part of the game. And they've gone out and gotten two right backs. They didn't just get one. They got two to make a replacement. I thought that he would continue to develop in that area and have more of like a Steve Trundalo type. Now, I think Trundalo was there for like 15 years at Hanover, something crazy like that. I know that's a tough expectation these days, right, with the way that guys change. But I would have thought he would have had more of a trajectory like that. Now, having said that, as Chuck says, he's young, he's played over 150 games. Someone will value that experience and maybe put him in a system where he flourishes in that part. He's just a steady player, right? You never get like tens out of them and you never get like threes out of them, right? As a guy, it's always performing at like a seven, seven and a half type level. And I think people will value that for sure. But I thought he'd be here a little bit longer, but we'll see what the next move seemingly looks like right now. All right, well, let's talk then. And I appreciate the insight from both of you on Joe Scaling in particular, because I do feel like this next move has to be that next step. And maybe we'll find out where his ceiling is based on where this club is and the playing time that it gets. But I think maybe the biggest name that we could talk about, I don't know what Kai Banks is still like, he's gonna even play for us. So that's a big conversation piece, especially because we're thin in the center back spot. But Malik Tillman, right, makes a big move, Chuck from PSV, Bayer Leverkusen, kind of bought to fill that Florian votes role who then left to go to Liverpool. He ended up having, so Casper Yulemon was, well, he actually, Eric Tenhogg was a coach that wanted to purchase it, right? Maybe greenlit that. And Tenhogg is out after three or four games or a month or whatever, not there very long. Yulemon comes in and this is what Tillman just said recently in an interview about this relationship with Yulemon. Last season went the way it went to say now that things didn't really click between the coach and me. What better fresh start could there be than a new season with a new coach? I can show what I'm capable of and prove myself all over again. I'm trying to have fun again. That's what I missed last season. Now, he's got a coach that's coming in Carlos Martinez, Martinez, I said it like a Brit. Carlos Martinez, Novel, who formerly at Toulouse. And I think he also added in this interview too that I think is funny. He, not necessarily funny, but he just says, how does he work? How does this new coach work? How does he think what's his plan, what's his plan for me? In the end, we'll see whether I stay or not. That's the funny part. That's a pretty big mission, a mission, Chuck. Whether I stay or not. So it looks like he's gonna stay, but it seems like he's got to have to work through his idea of what that looks like and what success and fun looks like. Yeah, well, I got to speak to him in New York just before the World Cup final. And he was talking about just his growth. Cause I was mentioning, man, how far you've come over the years and I told them how Ernie Stewart, what, right when he signed him at PSV, was raving about just his quality and how you just have to get to know his personality, but he's a star in the making. He's so gifted. And then now where he is today, given that the US had a disappointing last game against Belgium, he was one of the stars, no doubt in this tournament. And so I was really impressed, not only with his attacking phase of play, but his defensive, pressuring, winning the ball back, good tackling. That stood out to me. So in essence, the player doesn't necessarily get to choose if they get to stay or not. They may want to leave, but you're under contract. You don't go anywhere unless they allow you to leave. You may say, I expressed that I'm not happy here, but at the end of the day, they control whether you stay or not. I do think with a new manager, it could be the case where they're gonna give him the opportunity to excel in a position that best suits him. So it seems like that's gonna be the case so far and that he's up for the challenge. Now, if Byer Leverkusen have a strong season in the Europa League, they have a strong season in the Bundesliga and qualifier for Champions League, maybe he's in no rush to leave. But I do think Leverkusen's a stepping stone for Malik Tillman, because we've already seen his ceiling is very high and he's not there yet. So given his performances, I do expect him to stay, perform, and make a move in the near future. All right. Well, he started in the club's DFB Pokal opener. We'll see how valentine that continues to be. And Shind, it wasn't like he just played. Like he performed really well. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting. Not he's one of our guys that I think had a World Cup where, okay, now can you get more responsibility at the club, kind of be the number 10 or the guy for that club and demonstrated that with PSV and really took on that responsibility, as you mentioned, with Ernie Stewart and demonstrated his quality consistently and made the move to Leverkusen. Can he now do it and establish himself in the Bundesliga? Didn't have fun last year. We'll see if he has fun this time around. Obviously when the team's playing well, that makes it fun for everybody. I do want to get into, and very quickly on Cole Campbell, he goes to Elvars Burke, he left Orpent, first time promoted side, by the way, for a reported six or seven million. That seems pretty big for a team that just got promoted for the first time. He just played 90 in his club's DFB Pokal win recently. We'll keep an eye on him. There's obviously a lot of hype about him coming through. Did you coach him, big tones, Cole Campbell? Did you have any cross-over? Yeah, not in heaven, but I knew of him when he was a young kid. When he was a young kid, he's still 20. But when he was coming up through the system, and of course, he made those comments about wanting to win the ball and door, and we were all, I love it. I love the fact that you want to do something like that. I'm not quite sure at 18, I probably would have said, I want to win the ball and door, but the kid is confident, man. And I think it's a significant number, seven million for a team like Elvars Burke, it just comes to the Bundesliga. And it shows that I don't know their transfer history. I can't imagine there's a lot of guys that have been transferred at seven million to that club. And it shows that they really feel like this is a young kid that could help them get to where they want to go. I would imagine the goal this year is to stay in the Bundesliga. That's your number one goal. But yeah, as long as he's playing, I mean, I think it always just goes back to that. No, what kind of banks, as long as he's playing, we'll see what it turns out and what it looks like this year. That's the most important thing, especially at these ages, right? And getting opportunities. You don't want to, I use Gaga Sloanina still as my example. Remember, this is the kid who got to the national team and broke the record for becoming the youngest goalkeeper ever to play for the national team, right? It was my record, actually, that he broke. That's the whole hell he got. Yeah, that's the only time he's played for the national team because once the move happened, right? All of a sudden, we haven't heard from Gaga. So, okay, he made a couple of long moves and he had the injury. But I mean, relatively speaking to what his trajectory was, we haven't heard much about him. You don't want that to happen to the Cole Campbells and the Mattis Albert looks like he's gonna get an opportunity as manager likes him, said a good preseason. Kids got a little bit of everything, man, in his game. Like, he's got every tool he can run behind. He holds the ball, he scores goals. Like, he could be a special one. But again, if he doesn't play for the whole season, then we lose it a little bit, right? It's always the key. Yeah, well, we're gonna talk about Albert right now, but before that, I wanted to just give a shout to Nookai Banks, Hawaiian-born German-American. Doesn't turn 20, actually, until December. He made 23 appearances in the Bundesliga for Augsburg last season. Right now, the optic super computer has Augsburg finishing right in the middle of the standings at 10th. We'll see if they can improve upon that and any capacity. And to your point, big tones, can he continue to build off of what he did last year? So instead of 23 appearances, you know, those weren't all starts, by the way. Can he come on and really be a guy that solidifies that backline? And that's what we want. We want our players getting raps coming to solve problems. Does he have to be here in that window for you? Does he have to be, I mean, I know a new cycle, like you got, you know, because you would be right if he was, but if he's not going to commit then. But maybe, maybe I'm free to question wrong. Well, maybe Chuck can help me here. My, what I'm saying is he, okay, he was undecided, right? Before this woke up, we think. He was undecided. He didn't know what he was going to do. Someone said it on his social. He has the same, he has the same Asian as Doggelsman, also to throw that in. Right, right. So he must have a clear idea of whether or not, he's anywhere near the German national team, anywhere near it. If you got the same agent, you know, right? For you, like, aren't you like, okay, if you commit, I want you committed for four years, well, if you commit, you're committed for a lifetime, but I want you committed now at the beginning of this four years, even if Puchotino likes him. Well, we don't even know if Puchotino likes him in the end, right? Well, he better like him, because we're real authentic in this department. With you, I get it, we just don't know, right? And we'll find, but for me, I just kind of hope he's in for this, this, and then we lock it in. We don't go through this rollercoaster, and that, I think that comes from the belief, right? So I think he's got to feel comfortable and passionate about making this decision. With Jürgen Klopp now being running Germany, I think he would have had a better sense of to know how close he was to Doggelsman Germany, to now, same thing with Jürgen Klopp. You're either getting called in early, which I don't think he would be, because his performances tailed off at the end of last season anyway. So he would have to have another strong season to be in contention. So does he still feel that that passionate about playing for Germany and representing that crest? Or does he go, you know what? Puchotino has called it. He wants me now. He's going to give me the chance. We built that relationship over time. And now I'm ready to commit my future to the United States. I'm with Utonia, I feel that now's kind of that point where you're saying, we haven't pressured you. We haven't given you a take it or leave it offer, but it feels like now you either want to be a part of this cycle as we move to that 2030 World Cup, or you're going to give it yourself every opportunity to play for Germany. And then, you know, by that time, Puchotino will be long gone, right? So it'll be interesting to see if Banks goes, all right, now's the time. I'm ready to start building this future with the United States. Well, I don't think Germany has ultra strong centerbacks either. So it's curious. It'll be curious to see how it would clap call a player who's a German-American who hasn't performed at Augsburg. Like, what would be the intention? No, no, I understand, but yeah. It's one of those things where you're like, if you really wanted to play for Germany and you could see, it's not like they, you know, have these, it's not like Van Dyke is in front. There's like, there's just no way there's any way, you know, he's not going to play for that. So at that point, you're trying to make the argument of him just saying, I'm going to play, play, I'm going to see now and trying, trying to get back into the German picture. But to what your guys are saying, I think it would be important for him to see. And if we were trying to quote unquote recruit him a little bit, that if you came in, this is a great time for you to start the cycle, as you're mentioning. And we can start to paint a picture of you in that back line leading us and really getting all the reps and building that all important. Well, Chris Richards is the leader, but you're playing alongside Chris Richards. Yeah, and establishing yourself is like, I'm one of the guys, like Freeman did, right? Freeman came into the team and now we're like, yeah, Freeman's our guys got to be on the field. He makes a difference, right? So could he kind of break in in a similar way? And now even do it sooner than Freeman, right? Freeman only did it maybe in the last year and earned the trust of Pochettino and the team and obviously shined. But then also now you have four years to kind of ramp up to it and have the Copa America and woke up qualifying to help continue to build all that. Yeah, I think it would be really important for him to come in. But if Germany is really a possibility and it doesn't, like I said, I don't think their center backs are out and out like all time great. So you were him, if you were in his shoes, you're backing yourself to make that German side because what if you back your show? Yeah, what I'm hearing from you is, hey, there are some good players out there that are young, but there's no long-term like chosen one. There's not like a 24, 25 year old stud or few of them where I know at best I'm coming in as a backup center back and I'm at Augsburg. So how realistic is that versus man, clear, clean slate with the US men's national team. There's holes next to Chris Richards. Yeah, the US path, the US path is more clear. And I think there's a real big argument for why he would want to go that direction. But again, holding onto something inside that's like, I want to play for Germany and I've always envisioned, if I visualize, you know what I mean? You visualize, we all visualize playing for the US at some point. That's what we wanted to do. Now we didn't have any other options, but for him he's got the choice and if he's always pictured himself or in the German national team kit and that's where he wants to go, it's just impossible to fight that. So then would you want him at the end of the day? Would you want him to play for the US if that's the case? If that's how he feels? I will never tell us, but yeah, if he wants to come play for us and that energy, I mean, he's played for our youth national team. So it's wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility he's worn the crest before. But if you're backing yourself that you're going to make Germany then go back yourself. Like I have no problem with that. Like good on you. Like that's where I want to play then that's what I'm going to do. But again, I still think he would have known under Nogel's men if he were even close to the national team. If he wasn't close to the national team under Nogel's men, right, when Nogel's men was there, Irgen Klopp is not handing out national team caps to German players. No. He's not going, I need you to play for Germany like, and I'm just going to give you a cap even though you're not playing in Augsburg. Doesn't work that way in most national teams. So we see a lot here, as a matter of fact, I've said for years, we see it too much here with guys that aren't playing with their national teams not happening for him. But again, Jimmy, to your point, if he wants to back himself and be a German national team player, then go do that by no means. Should you do anything else? My point is if he's even remotely committed to what they're doing here and what Pochettino's doing after conversations and after seeing the World Cup, like I want to see him now in this camp and start building with Chris Richards. Please. Chris Richards is the guy. Let's get the next guy next to him on one side and who's our next guy on the other side. And let's put them together as long as possible. Well, we've had Chris Richards to be hurt. He missed the 2022 World Cup because he was hurt. So we need to not only blood guys to partner with Chris Richards, but we also have to be prepared in case one of our top dogs is hurt as well. All right, one of my favorite players, one of the most I'm excited about, I should say, for the Bundesliga game, we're going to go to our resident number nine here, Charlie Davies, answer these questions. It is Matisse Albert. Okay, so 17 years old, Southern Cal, excuse me, South Carolina native, but grew up in Southern California. So I got plenty of time for kids from LA. Any time, I think what's interesting is, I hear more and read more and watch more and listen more. Everybody that has been across his path at some point, whatever age from 10 years old on is always super impressed about Albert and how he approaches the game and his confidence and his fearlessness and his desire to make plays. And I love that. And now we're going to see if it translates to the highest level. I'm now playing for Bruce Dorman. He's got to win over his coach, Nico Kovac has been in press with them during pre-season and set as much in the press. We have last year, he became the youngest American to feature in the Bundesliga. He got 16 years, 340 days. He broke Geo Reyna's mark, which is exciting. So it's pretty good before that, right? Yeah, exactly right. So and he's going to a club that trusts the young Americans. We have a nice rich history there. So I guess we're going to put him through the Beyond the I test thing. So availability is actually playing. We don't know where that's going to come full circle. Role, what is his club coach asking him to do? And I feel like every club coach that I've seen talk about him is like, yes, we give him parameters, but we have to let him be himself within those parameters. So we'll see if Nico Kovac does the same. Execution is actually performing his role as his game improving. We don't know yet. These are all kind of like we have to get into that. Translation does his skillset project to the US men's national team. Talk to us about his player profile, Chuck, and what makes him special because everybody's saying this is the guy and Tony said it a little bit earlier. He's got a little something to him. So for me, I got a chance to play with him, right? In Las Vegas with Jude Terry. So those are the two players I got a chance to interact with me and see them play and how they move and how they think, which I was very impressed with. But where those two have excelled in particularly is how they've integrated with the first team and taken, making, made the most with their minutes. So with Matisse Albert, what's great about him, and we've seen it at the U17 World Cup, is he's not afraid to run at you. He's confident in his dribbling ability, which is high. He can play between the lines. So he knows how to receive a pass between the lines, turn, and force a defender to step or force a defender to drop. He's a great finisher. He can play quickly. So those are the things where you first notice when you watch a young player is how good are they technically when they receive a pass, their first touch, then you can see how quick do they dribble with the ball at their feet? Are they putting defenders under pressure? Are they making good decisions? And then the final product, that key pass, the finish, the shot, the decision making in that final action, is it elite? And for me, at this point, he's an elite winger for his age as an American. So I guess what you will be watching for this season within the Bundesliga is when he gets his opportunities, how does he handle the pressure? I think sometimes he'll be guilty of taking too many touches because he's so comfortable on the ball. And that's almost like a young thing when you take two unnecessary touches, right? We're all guilty of it. Young players who can dribble and who are quick and have good pace. But movement off the ball, I think his defensive responsibility is going to be under a microscope. How good is he in the counter press? How good is he at winning the ball, his reactions? And then his physical resilience, like getting hit and tackled by bigger center backs or outside backs. How does he deal with some of that? Those contentious moments when you're balling for 50-50s and then I think recognizing space, that the right space at the right time. So for me, he is on the right path and a promising young player. Hey, Jimmy, real quick, I was looking up some notes about him and I did one of these like Google Translates from one of the local guys over there. And just how a Google Translated, I liked it. They said, they were talking about how he's fearless and how he has this creative mindset. But it said he thrives in chaotic attacking moments. That was the translation. I know the Google's a little bit off, but I thought that kind of true, right? He's that kind of player. He wants the game to be sped up. So those are exciting players to watch. I think what's interesting too is that he left L.A. to go to Dartmouth at 15. So already having that confidence and betting on himself, it's such a young age. Well, you got to have that passport, Jimmy. That's the first two, right? Yeah, he does have the passport, which makes a difference. But yeah, I love all those things. And when you talk about him being good and chaos, that just means he's a transition player, right? All of a sudden, the press, good pressing, you win the ball back in a good spot and he can hurt you. And it's like, go go go make make make. You got to make decisions, good decisions. So you're scanning, you're identifying where you can hurt a team the most and he really has that in spades. So I'm excited about him. If you're going to watch the Bundesliga this year, spend some time with Bruce your Dortmund and hopefully T-Salbert will get some valuable minutes and make us all proud. This season and obviously in the future as well. All right, we're going to take our last break of the show when we come back. We're going to talk about Middlesbrough, our new American team over in the EFL championship. And we're going to talk about League's Cup because MLS teams to Chuck's points did not make the semi-finals his prediction. Way to go Chuck. All right, it's like a bitters. It's not a good thing. I know, I know. You know, it's like, yeah, yeah, right, but it's not a right to get into it. We hold on. We're going to trigger Chuck at the other side of this. Keep it right here. Keep it right here. No, you can't trigger me. All right, welcome back into the stretch run of the show. I'm Jimmy alongside Charlie and Tony. Went really formal on that one. So what we teased before, Middlesbrough, signing another American player. This one is named Rokas Puxtas, who is making the move for $5.4 million. Unfortunately, though, this Puxtas doesn't have a link to the Columbus crew. Aiden Morris, Sebastian Burholtz, or Max Arthson, all played with the Columbus crew. Now I'm making the move and playing for Burho, but Puxtas does not. So will the Steve Gibson own club bet on Americans? Will this pay off? And tones, I'm coming to you on this. How do you think this is going to impact? Let's talk about the player first, Puxtas, and then how you think he can impact the team. And where do you think Burho for me are in the conversation potentially get promoted? They obviously, you know, this is for me, one of the hardest leagues to have success. You play so many games over the 44 games, I think they play in the league. And if you don't finish on the top two, then you go into the playoff. So third through six, you've got to then battle it out to see if it gets that last spot to get promoted. Burho, for me, are in that conversation to be involved. And if they do, then we'll have four Americans on the same team playing in the Premier League next season, which would be pretty cool. But what do you think this means for the player first and then for the club overall, big tones? First off, Joe Scally, Maze will go there too. He's looking for a club, and you see what else is going on? Yeah, I mean, good for him, it's a move that gets him into England, right? I think we're seeing this with Sebastian Burho alter. They clearly have an affinity for even though not coming from MLS to Middlesbrough for American players, if you will. So we'll see how it works out, attack-minded player could fit nicely in that league. I'm sure have a little bit of comfort with a couple of American players already there that he probably knows from the youth system. So yeah, I'm interested to see. He's been a guy that's been sort of on, because of where he played on the outside looking in, because he wasn't in England, he wasn't in France, he wasn't in Italy, has taken a little bit different path, if you will. So we haven't really paid a ton of attention to him. We've seen him in weeks where he has scored goals, and you get the social media moments and all of that, but we haven't really studied his game. I don't know how many games you've watched of him, only knew him a little bit from the highlights. Yeah, that's what I've seen. So I'm interested now, because we've covered League, obviously, to get to see him a little bit more, and see what he really is about. Young player, 22 years old. I know a little bit about him, because obviously, my youngest son played at Oklahoma State, which is played baseball there, but every time I meet somebody that knows anything about soccer or knows that I played soccer, they're like, oh, do you know the kid, Bukeska, he's from Stillwater, Oklahoma, of all places, which doesn't have a thriving soccer community. It's a very football and baseball and wrestling, believe it or not, town, but made a big move. So I've heard a little bit about him over the years, but I'm excited to watch more of him. Yeah, we had Ivan Rakitich on last year. He was singing his praises, because that's the club that's... He was a club technical director. That's right. He just left the club, his contract ended, so he's no longer with him. But yeah, remember, he was talking about him, Bukeska has a lot of potential. So it's interesting, because now we're talking about three midfielders, they'll probably be stealing minutes from each other at some point anyways. Yeah, yeah. And it feels like getting Morrison's Sebastian Berhhalter kind of stealing minutes from each other a little bit, too. Well, eight in eight in the other, too. Yeah, eight in locked in starter there. He said that Berhhalter will be playing alongside him. I don't think they were brought into compete with each other. And then Max Arvson, I think it's going to take him time to adjust. So I wouldn't be surprised if he comes off the bench more often than starts. But yeah, it's an interesting group of players they're bringing in for this project. So yeah, I prefer to be in the Premier League. It will be. It will be. It doesn't push the project. Sorry, Jimmy. Play a little bit further up the field in those days. Yeah, he's more of like a 10. He's like a 10, right? Yeah. So we could have a midfield of him as a 10. You could have Sebastian as the eight. And Aiden Morris as the six Mac Max Arvson out wide ball and forward. It could happen. It could happen or dream in here. But that would be pretty cool. And for them to get promoted to the Premier League would be absolutely next level. So we're excited to see how that goes. All right, let's talk Lee Scott. I don't want to I don't want to not give this a little bit of time to talk about this. But before we get into it, we have a question from a long time listener. So let's listen to the audio of that. As Emma less filing surpassed Liga Mekis. Wow, technical difficulties. So that was a sound like Charlie Davis or a long time guest off. Yeah, we got cut off. By the way, I love that there was no context in that little clip, as this was a bro in my book. Context. A media work. Yes, ma'am. This is called a. Yeah, I love how we always forget to leave context out of this. But this was one of those segments on Morning Footy called Bro Amit Bugging. You come up with an outlandish take that may have some truth through it or not. I'm not a big fan of it. But either way, we got him everybody here. I'm not triggered. I'm very calm. You've seen me when I've been. You know the tone, no, no, no, no, no, you're setting up for the big trigger. But like the tone you have right now is way down great. Keep going. Yeah, I'm going to go in here. Yeah, so we're talking about Leaks Cup and the MLS teams that are still in Leaks Cup or we're still in Leaks Cup. So Columbus crew, for instance, are no longer anywhere near the Columbus crew that we have been accustomed to seeing competing for MLS Cup. So they were playing Clube America no chance. We already know Austin. Austin is not great. They may have to make coaching a coaching change. They lose to Taluca. No surprise. RSL playing Club Leone. Do we ever think they were going to be Leone? Again, these are not even the best MLS teams in Chicago Fire. That was probably the best team left, given that Greg Braalter has really started to pull something together there with Levandowski and Zinkernago, who are two very good players. But they fell short to Monterey. And that was the best opportunity for an MLS team to make a run in this competition. So unfortunately, which is in that clip for that segment, I spoke about the majority of Major League Soccer. So if we're talking about the middle to bottom teams and League of Mekis versus the middle of MLS, I think MLS wins straight through. I think League of Mekis doesn't have much depth. But if you're telling me the top four teams in League of Mekis versus the top four in MLS, that's when League of Mekis, given that there's no salary cap, the amount of money that can spend per player, the depth is much stronger. So that's why we have struggled against League of Mekis teams on that end, because from top to bottom, from player one to player 14, 15, they're pretty deep. We don't have that yet. And that's because of our roster restrictions. And at the end of the day, that's what's kind of holding us back. And we've talked about that having to change the roster rules. But yeah, I stand by it. MLS has grown considerably, so much so that I think in this League of Mekis Cup, I get playing in America versus playing in Mexico. There's two different things. We know that. But teams are not going to Mexico and getting embarrassed like they used to. That's a fact. I'm proud of where we are, but we still have a long way to go. No, we do. I'd say with the crew, Kumameta went up early, and then Mendes had a chance. He had a penalty, and he missed it. That makes it one-one. Ultimately, I think America would have enough to get through, but I wonder how that changes the complexion of the game. What's interesting, too, about Leescap, this is the first time in the competition's history, very short history, that games were in Mexico. And that's where we still struggle, frankly. We still struggle to, we talked about momentum earlier in the show. That's a place where you're going to lose momentum. And you've got to have to have grown men out there, can have kids, can have people hiding, right? You need to be grown men stepping up and trying to make plays and keeping organized, because they're going to stretch you. The crowd's going to get behind you. The environment is very difficult, and you have to figure out ways. And I think it's great. I actually, even though we lost all the games here in the quarter finals, big tones, and I want to get what you think this indicates, if anything, about MLS in particular, in our growth. But I think it's good for us to get into those tough situations and help these other teams and these players within these teams on MLS to like get it out of their comfort zone and learn how to solve problems when they're uncomfortable. And we didn't do it this time around, but hopefully that'll be a nice stepping stone into success in the future. Yeah, well, Jimmy, I think that's what this competition in general was set up to do. Of course, there's a money-making element to the competition, and I get that part. But I think in general for MLS teams, the whole competition was set up to say, OK, we need to continue to compete against all the best teams in the Cavs region. Of course, they all come from MLS and from League of Mekis. And I'm with Chuck. I think from top to bottom, our league has now surpassed the Mexican League. But hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, bro, my bugger or did Tony agree with the play? I had this show on the show. I was going to play the game. No, no, no, yeah. But I've thought that now for a year or two, maybe even more. But at the top level, I think the League of Mekis teams are better at the top level, the upper group of teams. And we're seeing these big clubs. I mean, Taluca has been outstanding the last two years. They've been incredible. We know Amarika, Leon, Monterey. They've been good for a long time. Actually, Leon had a little bit of a dip a couple of years ago. But I mean, just a massive club that's not going to stay down for long in that league. But we've all said the same thing about the playing in the US. All these four were played in the US, right? These four games. I wish we would do that. I know it's a financial thing. I just wish we'd go down there more and play more games. It'd be better for it. It certainly would be better for our development. We're talking about youth development in our country. But I will say this, for me, if we were to play, away at Mexico. One, we're talking about the difficulty in the environment and the supporters, but the young American players at play, that's the experience that they need to continue to grow, being in those tough environments and elements. But yeah, we're going about this the right way. We just need to continue to improve as a league. All right. Very well said from both of you. Great show is always everybody as a reminder. We have today's Champions League League phase draw. That's happening live at the World Cup at 12 p.m. Eastern. So make sure you tune into that and see where our guys are going to play. Four home, four away. And we'll see who they end up drawing. Should be a lot of fun. Thanks for hanging out with us. As always, have a great weekend. Watch the Bundesliga. Hopefully, Matisse Albert gets to play. Get to see some minutes from him. And there's going to be games for everybody. We'll obviously recap it on the other side of the weekend. That's it. Thanks for hanging out with us. Later. We'll see you in the next one. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.