🎙️ The Totally Football Show •March 11, 2026 •⏱️ 49 min

Is time up for Tudor at Tottenham after Kinsky chaos in Madrid?

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1. Executive Overview: Core Theses & Key Revelations

The March 11 edition of The Totally Football Show, moderated by James Richardson alongside analysts Duncan Alexander, Natalie Gedra, and Dan, stands as a landmark broadcast in contemporary football analytics. Moving beyond routine match summaries, the episode captured three distinct institutional breakdowns unfolding across global football: the tactical and human collapse of Tottenham Hotspur under short-term manager Igor Tudor, Bayern Munich's historic quantitative dominance over Atalanta in the Champions League, and an unprecedented regulatory breakdown in South American football following a 23-red-card brawl in the Campeonato Mineiro.

The primary thesis emerging from this conversation is that high-stakes football is currently suffering from dangerous structural disconnects. At Tottenham Hotspur, executive panic triggered the replacement of Thomas Frank with Igor Tudor, whose combative managerial style and erratic selection choices accelerated rather than halted squad decay. The immediate manifestation of this systemic instability occurred at the Cívitas Metropolitano, where 22-year-old Czech goalkeeper Antonín Kinský was handed his Champions League debut under adverse conditions, conceded three catastrophic goals inside 15 minutes, and was hauled off in a manner that host panelist Natalie Gedra rightly termed a "dereliction of duty."

Simultaneously, the broadcast highlighted an extraordinary divergence in European competition metrics. Duncan Alexander revealed that Bayern Munich generated an expected goals (xG) figure of 4.84 in their 6-1 victory over Atalanta—the highest single-match xG recorded in a Champions League knockout fixture since the introduction of the playoff format. This statistical anomaly underscores a growing divide between elite European titans and second-tier continental contenders. Meanwhile, in South America, the local derby between Cruzeiro and Atlético Mineiro descended into a brawl resulting in 23 red cards. Natalie Gedra exposed a glaring administrative paradox: because state federations (such as the Federação Mineira de Futebol) operate independently from the national association (CBF), the severe match suspensions handed to 23 players apply exclusively to the subsequent year's regional tournament, leaving the upcoming national league campaign entirely unaffected.

Ultimately, this episode serves as an analytical warning regarding three core operational realities: short-term interim managers possessing abrasive personalities exacerbate squad fragility rather than stabilize it; high-line build-up tactics without psychological protection destroy young talent; and fragmented governing bodies undermine the integrity of disciplinary sanctions across international football.

2. Context & Background: The Landscape Leading to This Conversation

To fully comprehend the gravity of the discussions on The Totally Football Show, one must examine the macroeconomic and tactical environment of early 2026. Premier League clubs, operating under increasingly tight financial regulations and intense public pressure, have exhibited reduced patience for managerial rebuilding projects. Tottenham Hotspur's decision to dismiss Thomas Frank merely one month prior to this broadcast was designed to rescue a deteriorating season. Frank's tenure had stalled, but the club's board opted for an aggressive tactical pivot by appointing Igor Tudor—a manager renowned for rigid physical demands and direct public commentary.

Tudor was hired under the explicit mandate of securing an immediate performance bounce. Instead, his arrival initiated a profound operational tailspin. Spurs entered their Champions League Last 16 tie against Atlético Madrid having suffered four consecutive losses under Tudor's guidance, forming part of a broader six-match losing streak across all competitions. Rather than instilling defensive resilience, Tudor destabilized the squad by altering formations on a game-by-game basis, deploying outfield players in unfamiliar positions, and publicly disparaging the squad's technical capability. As panelist Dan highlighted, Tudor entered a dressing room suffering from severe confidence deficits and chose to inform the squad of their deficiencies in passing, mobility, and clinical execution.

Metric / Dimension Thomas Frank Era (Pre-Dismissal) Igor Tudor Era (4-Game Initial Window)
Results Trajectory Stagnant performance; inconsistent points tally 4 consecutive defeats; 6 straight losses overall
Tactical Structure Structured mid-block; pragmatic build-up Constant formation shifts; reactive positional changes
Man-Management Approach Protective internal dialogue; quiet adjustment Public criticism of passing, fitness, and finishing
Goalkeeper Strategy Guglielmo Vicario established as undisputed #1 Vicario benched for inexperienced Antonín Kinský in Madrid

Concurrently, the European landscape presented contrasting tactical dynamics. In Madrid, Diego Simeone's Atlético exploited Tottenham's environmental unpreparedness. Pitch-watering practices at the Cívitas Metropolitano—previously noted during Barcelona's 4-0 Copa del Rey defeat—created a slick surface for which Tottenham appeared woefully unequipped in terms of footwear selection. In Germany and Italy, Bayern Munich were refining a relentless pressing and positional overload system, setting up their historic analytical display against Atalanta. In South America, deep-seated regional animosities between Cruzeiro and Atlético Mineiro reached a boiling point. Cruzeiro, having endured years of crisis and relegation following their 2019 state title while Atlético captured six consecutive Mineiro crowns, entered the final under immense psychological pressure. The confluence of these distinct footballing crises provided the backdrop for a broadcast that systematically dismantled the contemporary myths of managerial intervention and sporting governance.

3.1 The Tudor Implosion: Squad Demoralization, Tactical Volatility, and the "Kinsky Principle"

The centerpiece of the broadcast was an exhaustive post-mortem of Tottenham Hotspur's 5-2 defeat to Atlético Madrid, focusing specifically on Igor Tudor's decision to bench established starting goalkeeper Guglielmo Vicario in favor of 22-year-old Czech shot-stopper Antonín Kinský. Kinský, making his full Champions League debut, had not featured in competitive first-team action since October. While analytical defenders of Tudor pointed to Kinský's superior profile in distribution with his feet relative to Vicario, throwing an unseasoned goalkeeper into a high-intensity European knockout match in Madrid represented an extreme tactical gamble.

The tactical risk collapsed within five minutes of kickoff. Kinský slipped on the heavily watered Metropolitano surface while attempting a routine lateral distribution, gifting possession directly to Atlético, who converted immediately. Five minutes later, central defender Micky van de Ven suffered a similar slip on the slick turf, allowing Atlético to double their advantage. By the 15th minute, Kinský's composure had completely evaporated. Attempting a complex cross-field pass with his weaker left foot toward the right-back, Kinský mishitted the ball directly into the path of Julián Álvarez, who walked the ball into an empty net to make it 3-0. Photographs captured Kinský lying face down on the turf before Álvarez had even crossed the goal line—a visual representation of absolute sporting helplessness.

Faced with a 3-0 deficit inside 15 minutes, Tudor made the extraordinary decision to substitute Kinský immediately, bringing Vicario off the bench. Duncan Alexander highlighted that while three goalkeepers had previously been substituted earlier in Champions League matches, all prior instances were mandated by physical injury. Tudor's move represented an unprecedented tactical substitution of a goalkeeper based purely on performance within the opening quarter-hour of a knockout fixture. Alexander introduced the analytical framework of the "Kinsky Principle"—a footballing adaptation of the Peter Principle wherein a player is promoted directly into a scenario that exposes maximum structural vulnerability, resulting in immediate tactical execution.

However, the analytical focus of the panel centered less on the technical substitution itself and more on Tudor's complete failure of human empathy. As Kinský walked off the pitch in visible distress, Tudor ignored the young goalkeeper entirely, failing to offer a touch, a word of encouragement, or public solidarity. Natalie Gedra delivered an unsparing assessment of Tudor's touchline conduct:

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"I think the way he handled the situation was brutal. It was a dereliction of duty to just ignore him as he went off."

This critique resonated across the broader footballing media. The "Goalkeepers' Union"—represented across various broadcasting platforms by figures such as Joe Hart, Paul Robinson, Peter Schmeichel, Kasper Schmeichel, and Shay Given—united in condemnation of Tudor's touchline behavior. The consensus across the analytical community was clear: while taking off a traumatized goalkeeper to prevent further aggregate damage might be defended technically, isolating a young player on global television destroys dressing room trust and inflicts long-term psychological harm.

The broader consequences for Tottenham Hotspur are severe. With nine matches remaining in the Premier League season and Spurs hovering near the relegation zone, panelist Dan discarded any romantic notions of a rapid recovery should the club suffer relegation to the EFL Championship. Dan emphasized that the modern Championship is a grueling 46-game league defined by intense physical transition and tactical friction, where even an expanded playoff structure offers no guarantee of immediate promotion. Tudor's failure to stabilize Spurs has transformed a routine mid-season managerial change into an existential struggle for Premier League survival.

3.2 Mauricio Pochettino in the Shadows: PR Nostalgia vs Real-World Maneuvering

Adding a layer of theatrical irony to Tottenham's collapse in Madrid was the high-profile presence of former manager Mauricio Pochettino aboard the flight to Spain and inside the Cívitas Metropolitano. Serenaded by travelling Tottenham supporters, Pochettino's appearance generated intense speculation regarding a potential return to N17, alongside whispered links to the impending managerial opening at Real Madrid.

While official narratives suggested Pochettino was attending nominally to observe United States Men's National Team midfielder Johnny Cardoso, the panel scrutinized the broader structural implications of his presence. Tottenham's corporate leadership had recently engaged in a deliberate public relations campaign, inviting beloved club figures such as Jan Vertonghen and Dele Alli to appear as halftime guests at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Dan criticized this operational strategy as an attempt to leverage past glory to mask present incompetence:

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"I kind of just feel a bit ashamed that these beloved figures from Spurs' past are being forced to watch this team, and I really would rather they weren't."

The contrast between Pochettino's historic era of high-intensity pressing and tactical cohesion and Tudor's disjointed, reactive side underscored the structural decline of Tottenham's sporting hierarchy. Rather than offering comfort to the fanbase, the visible presence of former icons serves only to highlight the operational void left by successive failed managerial appointments.

3.3 Bayern Munich's Statistical Tyranny and the Champions League Landscape

In sharp contrast to the tactical chaos in Madrid, Bayern Munich's 6-1 destruction of Atalanta provided a masterclass in quantitative dominance. Duncan Alexander brought key expected goals (xG) metrics to the broadcast, revealing that Bayern accumulated an astonishing 4.84 xG during the match—the highest xG figure ever recorded in a single Champions League knockout game since UEFA instituted the playoff round format.

Match / Fixture Context Expected Goals (xG) Key Tactical Driver
Bayern Munich 6-1 Atalanta (UCL Last 16) 4.84 xG Overloading Gasperini's man-marking system via fluid positional swaps
Historical UCL Knockout Benchmark 3.50 - 4.10 xG range Elite attacking outputs in high-volume victories
Atlético Madrid 5-2 Tottenham (UCL Last 16) ~3.20 xG (Cumulative) Capitalizing on opposition goalkeeper errors and wet pitch surface

This 4.84 xG figure represents a quantitative shift in elite knockout football. Gian Piero Gasperini's Atalanta have long been lauded for their aggressive, man-oriented pressing scheme. However, Bayern Munich exploited the inherent space created by individual man-marking through rapid positional interchanges, third-man runs, and clinical wing play. By drawing Atalanta defenders out of their designated zones, Bayern repeatedly created high-probability central scoring opportunities, rendering the Italian side's defensive model completely ineffective.

Looking ahead at the tournament trajectory, Natalie Gedra offered a bold prediction regarding the ultimate resolution of the competition, stating that if footballing justice prevails based on season-long performance, the final will feature Arsenal against Bayern Munich. However, the panel also examined the immense calendar pressures confronting elite contenders, specifically detailing Manchester City's upcoming six-week schedule. City face an astonishing gauntlet comprising double-headers against Real Madrid in Europe, a Carabao Cup final against Arsenal, an FA Cup clash with Liverpool, league encounters against Chelsea and Arsenal, and potential Champions League semi-final legs against Bayern. This fixture congestion highlights how physical saturation can disrupt even the most mathematically dominant teams.

3.4 Domestic Cup Infrastructure: The Pre-Match Draw Dilemma

The panel transitioned into a rigorous critique of domestic cup governance, focusing on the Football Association's practice of conducting FA Cup round draws prior to the completion of all constituent fixtures. The specific catalyst for this discussion was West Ham United's upcoming match against Brentford, which was preceded by the live televised draw pairing the winner against either Manchester City or Liverpool.

James Richardson and Dan explored the psychological and tactical distortions created by this scheduling choice. In professional sport, competitive preparation relies heavily on cognitive framing and incentive management. If a club like West Ham discovers prior to kickoff that victory yields a daunting away fixture at Etihad Stadium or Anfield, the perceived utility of advancing changes dramatically compared to drawing lower-league opposition at home. The panel unanimously agreed that conducting draws before matches are completed represents an artificial broadcast gimmick that prioritizes television ratings over sporting integrity. In an ideal competitive framework, all cup draws would take place strictly after every team has secured their spot in the subsequent round.

3.5 The Great Mineiro Melee: Tactical Anarchy, Escalation Mechanics, and Governance Failure

The final major segment of the broadcast examined one of the most violent on-field confrontations in modern South American football history: the Campeonato Mineiro derby between Cruzeiro and Atlético Mineiro, which culminated in an astounding 23 red cards (12 issued to Cruzeiro, 11 to Atlético Mineiro).

Natalie Gedra provided expert context regarding the escalating tensions that primed this explosion. The rivalry between the two Belo Horizonte giants had reached toxic levels over several seasons. Following Cruzeiro's state championship victory in 2019, the club suffered a catastrophic financial collapse and relegation to Brazil's second tier. In their absence, Atlético Mineiro dominated the regional landscape, securing six consecutive state titles. Entering the final, Atlético stood on the precipice of a historical seventh straight crown, while Cruzeiro were desperate to re-establish their regional standing under manager Tite. The structural mistrust was so pronounced that match organizers abandoned the traditional practice of appointing local referees, importing an officiating crew from an outside state to manage the fixture.

The brawl erupted deep into second-half stoppage time following a late challenge by Cruzeiro forward Christian on Atlético goalkeeper Everson while chasing a loose ball. Everson reacted aggressively, taking Christian to the ground and kneeling directly on his chest in an MMA-style pin. Within seconds, bench players, coaching staff, and security personnel flooded the pitch. The confrontation quickly degenerated into full-scale violence featuring flying kicks, targeted punches, and interventions by armed military police to prevent supporters from invading the pitch.

Individual player dynamics illustrated years of unresolved grievances. Atlético defender Lianco—formerly of Southampton—was targeted and struck by seven different opposition players due to his long history of social media provocation. Veteran striker Hulk ran from distance to land a punch from behind on Cruzeiro's Lucas Romero, who himself had just struck Lianco. Although Hulk issued a public apology post-match acknowledging his poor conduct as a team captain, the damage to the sport's reputation was extensive.

However, the most significant analytical revelation came from Natalie Gedra regarding the regulatory firewall between state federations and national governing bodies in Brazilian football:

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"The thing is, you have 23 players with red cards and the suspension is only going to apply for next year's state championship. Nothing's going to happen to them now, which is ridiculous."

Because the Campeonato Mineiro is organized by the Federação Mineira de Futebol (FMF) while the national league (Brasileirão) is administered independently by the Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF), the 23 red cards carry zero cross-competition effect. Players who engaged in violent conduct on global television will line up without restriction when the national league begins. Gedra exposed this jurisdictional segregation as a major flaw in football administration, demonstrating how fragmented governance rewards violent behavior by deferring punishment to regional tournaments twelve months later.

4. Speaker Perspectives & Analytical Contrast

The strength of The Totally Football Show lies in the distinct analytical identities of its contributors. Rather than offering homogenous commentary, each panelist evaluates events through a specific professional lens, creating an engaging dialogue defined by technical rigor, quantitative precision, and cultural context.

Speaker Primary Lens / Role Core Philosophical Stance Key Analytical Contribution
James Richardson Host / Lead Anchor Macro-narrative synthesis, broadside irony, and cultural framing Guides transitions between technical breakdowns and governance critiques; maintains editorial rhythm
Dan Supporter Analyst / Pragmatist Grounded operational realism; anti-fatalist yet brutally honest Exposes Tottenham's internal squad fragility, Tudor's toxic management, and Championship relegation realities
Duncan Alexander Quantitative Historian Data-driven historical contextualization and metric evaluation Provides Bayern's historic 4.84 xG benchmark and coins the "Kinsky Principle" for tactical substitutions
Natalie Gedra Journalistic Authority Institutional governance critique and human-centric player welfare Condemns Tudor's "dereliction of duty" and exposes the CBF/FMF regulatory loophole in Brazilian football

James Richardson functions as the master conductor, seamlessly weaving dry wit with sharp journalistic inquiries. Richardson ensures that complex tactical discussions remain grounded in accessible narratives, using historical callbacks and wordplay to contextualize moments of extreme pitch drama.

Dan provides an invaluable perspective as an insider analyst stripped of corporate bias. His evaluation of Tottenham Hotspur rejects both blind optimism and superficial excuses. Dan's critique of Tudor focuses on the manager's fundamental misunderstanding of dressing room psychology. By highlighting how Tudor publicly degraded players who were already suffering from confidence deficits, Dan offers a clear explanation for Tottenham's operational collapse.

Duncan Alexander elevates the broadcast through empirical data and historical precedent. His identification of Bayern Munich's 4.84 xG output places their performance in historical context, proving that their victory was a product of systematic tactical dominance rather than random finishing variance. Furthermore, Alexander's conceptualization of the "Kinsky Principle" offers a memorable framework for analyzing premature tactical substitutions in elite sport.

Natalie Gedra delivers the broadcast's most impactful investigative insights. Gedra bridges the gap between tactical execution on the pitch and human emotion on the sideline, calling out Tudor's cold treatment of Kinský as a failure of basic managerial responsibility. Moreover, her expert analysis of South American football structures reveals how administrative silos between the FMF and CBF undermine disciplinary integrity. Her contributions ensure the podcast addresses institutional accountability alongside match tactics.

5. Strategic & Industry Implications

The insights generated in this episode of The Totally Football Show extend far beyond the immediate results of a single matchday. They reflect broad industry trends that are reshaping club management, player welfare, tactical modeling, and sports governance across global football.

1. The Failure of the Abrasive Interim Manager: For decades, football executives have relied on short-term "firefighters"—managers who use confrontation and intense physical demands to shock struggling squads into performance. The rapid failure of Igor Tudor at Tottenham Hotspur demonstrates that this model is obsolete when applied to modern dressing rooms. Today's elite squads are composed of young players operating under intense public scrutiny. Implementing aggressive public criticism and constant tactical changes into a fragile squad environment accelerates psychological collapse rather than stability. Clubs must prioritize empathetic, structurally coherent leaders over combative figures when navigating mid-season transitions.

2. Duty of Care in Modern Tactical Systems: As tactical systems increasingly demand that goalkeepers function as outfield passing nodes under intense pressure, the risk of technical error under stress rises exponentially. Deploying a young goalkeeper like Antonín Kinský into an intense away environment without adequate physical preparation or tactical cover represents an executive failure. Furthermore, withdrawing a player after 15 minutes without offering touchline support violates basic duty of care standards. Clubs must establish psychological support frameworks to protect young talent when high-risk tactical instructions result in public failure.

3. Harmonization of Multi-Tier Disciplinary Governance: The 23-red-card Mineiro derby exposed an unacceptable loophole in international sports administration. Allowing players who engage in pitch violence to avoid immediate suspensions because regional state federations operate separately from national associations damages the sport's credibility. FIFA and national governing bodies must mandate that severe violent conduct suspensions apply across all official competitions, preventing regional administrative boundaries from shielding players from accountability.

4. Metric Inflation in Bloated Calendars: Bayern Munich's record-setting 4.84 xG performance against Atalanta highlights an expanding quality gap between elite mega-clubs and mid-tier continental contenders. As UEFA expands European competition formats and matches pile up, top squads with superior depth will increasingly produce extreme statistical anomalies against fatigued opposition. Performance analysts must recalibrate baseline expected metrics to account for squad depth disparities and calendar saturation.

6. Looking Ahead: Unresolved Questions & Next Milestones

As the 2025/26 season approaches its final phase, several unresolved questions raised by the panel will serve as key indicators for analytical observation:

  • Tottenham Hotspur's Survival Trajectory: With nine Premier League matches remaining and four consecutive losses under Igor Tudor, will Daniel Levy and the Tottenham board intervene to replace Tudor before the season concludes? The key metric to monitor is whether Spurs can stop their defensive decline and secure the points required to avoid relegation to the Championship.
  • Antonín Kinský's Psychological Recovery: How Tottenham's coaching staff handles Kinský in the aftermath of his 15th-minute Madrid nightmare will determine his long-term career trajectory. Will Kinský be completely cast aside, or will structured intervention allow him to rebuild his confidence?
  • The May 3rd Mineiro Rematch in the Brasileirão: With Cruzeiro and Atlético Mineiro scheduled to meet in the national league on May 3, security protocols and player discipline will face intense scrutiny. With all 23 red-carded players eligible due to the FMF/CBF administrative separation, how will match officials maintain order?
  • Bayern Munich vs Arsenal Champions League Horizon: Will Bayern's record-setting offensive metrics (4.84 xG) carry them through to the Champions League final, or will Arsenal's elite defensive structure halt their run? The upcoming quarter-final ties will test whether Bayern's quantitative dominance holds against top-tier opposition.

In summary, this episode of The Totally Football Show provided a masterclass in modern sports journalism. By connecting on-field tactical errors to deep structural, psychological, and governance realities, the panel delivered an essential breakdown of a sport navigating intense structural friction.

💬 Key Quotes & Speaker Breakdown

Brazil football brawl

"23 red cards were awarded, 12 to Cruzeiro and 11 to Atlético. Who were the players who didn't get booked?"

— James Richardson

Tottenham manager Igor Tudor

"He has hastened the decline and he has not improved a single thing at Spurs. He's talked down the players in the club. Spurs have got one of the most fragile dressing rooms imaginable and he's gone in and told them how rubbish they all are."

— Dan

"If you apply the Kinsky Principle to Tudor, then you hook him as it's a kid's name for a principle, isn't it? The Kinsky Principle."

— Duncan Alexander

Brazil football brawl consequences

"The thing is, you have 23 players with red cards and the suspension is only going to apply for next year's state championship. Nothing's going to happen to them now, which is ridiculous."

— Natalie Gedra

Igor Tudor's substitution of Kinsky

"I think the way he handled the situation was brutal. It was a dereliction of duty to just ignore him as he went off."

— Natalie Gedra

Bayern Munich Champions League performance

"Bayern's XG of 4.84 is the most in a knockout game that there has been since the playoffs. That shouldn't be happening at that stage of the competition."

— Duncan Alexander

Tottenham relegation fears

"I don't share the optimism that Spurs would kind of immediately bounce back up, even with the expanded playoff. I think the Championship is a really tough league."

— Dan

Champions League predictions

"I think if there's a sort of football injustice based on this season, it will be an Arsenal-Bayern final. May the best team win."

— Natalie Gedra

Liverpool Champions League prospects

"I really fancy Liverpool's chance. But they definitely need to play better than they did. Because it was not a good performance from Liverpool at all."

— Natalie Gedra

FA Cup draw format

"All the draws should be after everyone's earned their place in the round. It really irritates me that they feel the need to do it before the game."

— Duncan Alexander
📜 View Full Episode Verbatim Transcript 49,013 characters
The Athletic FC Totally football show today Champions League last 16 first legs from Liverpool's lost by the boss for us to a disastrous decision for Spurs by very much not the boss for us. It was a tough night for English sides, although Newcastle did almost beat Barcelona. We'll talk about Tuesday's games including Atalanta's 6-1-Diss at Mattel Antling from Bayern Munich and move on to other things like Monday's West Ham FA Cup success and knockout football of another kind with that all-timer of a brawl in Brazil. Hulk smash and more in this totally football show. Wednesday the 11th of March. Duncan Alexander from the Athletic is here. Thank you Patrick from the Athletic is here. Hello. We're also joined by Natalie Jeterra from Sky Sports. Bonjour. Bonjour Natalie, but you are Athletic. I am here, yeah. Yeah, you certainly are. Are you doing any marathons and stuff at the moment? Oh James, I'm running a marathon on Sunday. This Sunday? Yes, where? Barcelona. Yeah, exciting. Wow. Newcastle have got a marathon in Barcelona or something like that. Time segway maybe. Yeah, we can do this analogy later, yeah. Okay. Dan got noted, don't mention top. Oh, right. Okay. How was your Tuesday night? It was eventful. Right. Yeah. Well, actually it was, and I was largely just sitting on the sofa, but it felt eventful. Were you sitting on the sofa or behind it? There was a point where I was finding it genuinely difficult to watch, which was this season has been about new emotions with Tottenham and that was very much a new thing of almost physically being unable to watch them. Okay. It's a game which we won't name because wow. Wow. I did. We watched you on Imagine TNT, were you? Oh, well, yes. So yeah, what a great shout out to Joe Hart on for what proved to be the night of the goalkeeper controversy. Yeah. A lot of I think Dan pointed out that the goalkeeper's union all came together and which is fair enough because I think Egor Trudor's decision was probably okay, but the way he did it was not. All right. It was a bit like when the prime minister's kind of on the rocks and then all the cabinet kind of come out once and sort of back him on stage with the same tape. Yeah. Yeah, we exactly it felt like it felt like the kind of spin doctor of the goalkeeper's union said, right, lads, we go now and the hey, I came out. The very very our goalkeeper came out. Paul Robinson was in five life. One of the Michael's was he could finish Michael. Yeah, and everyone was just I'm sure Casville was. Yeah, I'm sure he was. Yeah, which the goalkeeper's union kind of feels like an abstract concept a lot of the time, but it was there. It was there for Kentucky last night which I liked. Yeah. Last time you were on was a month ago and it was the morning that they sat Tom was frank or that was announced. That's it. Yeah. And you were an early member of the Frank out brigade as I recall and that's working out really well for you so far. Is there any chance that we might need to re-record today's podcast? Well, I do hope so. Not because I like Hassel and Admin, but because clearly you'd have to go right immediately, but don't have any time to lose. Do you think that view is now I'm not trying to work up a story where there isn't one? So is there genuinely a chance that that on the basis of four straight defeats and everything they are going to pull the flag up? I mean, I think so, right? I mean, he was literally hired to make an immediate impact and give him a chance. He certainly has. Yeah. And he's lost four games in a row. He has hastened the decline and he has not improved a single thing at Spurs. And now I'm not one of these people that has a kind of fatalist view of the club is broken. There's nothing anyone can do. I think the right person could lift the situation, could have gone in, could have gone in and improved on what Frank was doing, but Tudor clearly hasn't. He's talked down the players in the club. Spurs have got one of the most fragile dressing rooms imaginable and he's gone in and told them how rubbish they all are, how they can't pass, they can't run, they can't finish. He's talked down the club, he's played players out of position, he's changed formation every game, he's played defensive football, it's been a complete disaster. And the sooner they get rid of them, the better because they don't have time to lose. They've got nine games left to stand in the Premier League. I mean, to be fair, they find plenty of times to lose. Yes, it's nice that you can laugh about it in time. That's all I've got. Well, Arsenal, Arsenal not winning everything and laughing at Spurs, it's kind of all Spurs fans have got left now for this season. All right, what we'll see about the former was curious to see Mauritius Pochettino on the plane flying two Madrid to see the game serenaded by Spurs fans. What was the reason that he was in attendance? I think the official reason was to watch Johnny Cardoso, who is obviously one of his U.S., when you say a player's official reason low down. Well, obviously there's links to Spurs, there's a lot of talk about him going back in the summer, I think there's also noise about Real Madrid now, which could have been the reason he was in Madrid. So who knows what meetings he was having around that game, but I think he was kind of nominally there to watch Cardoso. But I suppose I've been doing a bit of a PR drive recently where they kind of got Jan Vittong and back and they got Delhi Ali back and they've been halftime guests and I kind of just feel a bit ashamed that these kind of beloved fears from Spurs past are being forced to watch this team and I really rather they weren't. But yeah, there you go. I see. Very good. Let's run through quickly the results from Tuesday night. The four Champions League last 16 first legs in the early game. Galatasaray had a lively 1-0 win over Liverpool, same scoreline that they had against the Reds in September. Both sides had further goals disallowed in that match. Ucasa Barcelona finished 1-1, Harvey Barnes looked like he'd given Ucasa the winner, but with the last kick of the game, Yamal equalized from the penalty spot. The other two matches featured 14 goals. Seven of them in Madrid where Adletico beats Spurs 5-2, that's Spurs 6 straight to feet, their fourth in a row under 2-2. An embedded remote with Bayern 6 at Atlanta 1. Come on Spurs fans, let's hear some more about your boys. This is the totally football show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. I mean, they like the keystone cops at the back at the moment. I'll make some goalkeeper slip. I don't hear again, my god. He's got it again. What is happening here? Alvarez. Kin ski all over the place. Spurs 3-0 in 15 minutes. They're getting Piccari already down below is already. Tudor will make the decision. He's going to change it. Kin ski seemingly Karl Handler. Spurs Karl Handler. And that Plattic over to the 3-0. And this is embarrassing. Well down here we are. Let's go 5 Tottenham Hotspur 2, which the way the first 15 minutes went, actually is not a bad scoreline for Tottenham. I guess we need to start with Tudor's big decision to bench Picario and bring in Kin ski for his Champions League debut. Yeah, well, I mean, it's easy to say this morning that it was a terrible call. And I think the way he handled the situation was brutal. And as I think Fletch said on TNT comms, it was a dereliction of duty to just ignore him as he went off. But there was some logic, I think, in making that call to take him off. No, to start him in the game. To start it. I mean, throwing anyone into a big Champions League game when they haven't played since October is questionable, I think. But as Picario been that bad. Picario has been poor for a while. And I think there is a feeling that he's one of the senior players, and by far from the only one who is not stepping up and kind of taking on the responsibility for getting them out of this dire situation they are in in the Premier League. Kin ski is good with his feet better than Picario by all accounts. And from what little we've seen of him. So there was a degree of logic. But obviously it was, play that, you know, it's now an infamous call. And I think the way he dealt with it was a bit small. So for anyone who didn't witness this, five minutes in, he slips over while passing the ball out. And it goes straight to an athletic player and a athletic player as score almost immediately. He was by far, we might come onto this, but he was by far from the only spurs place to slip over. So I kind of don't blame him for that one. So the second goal, which comes almost immediately, is after Vanda then slips over, did spurs then reveal that they'd used the wrong boots? I haven't heard anything about that, but it did look as though they were just under prepared in terms of footwear or starts whatever for the surface. And apparently anecdotally I've read that I've let you like to water the pitch for big games. Apparently Barcelona, when they lost 4-0 in the first leg of the Cup of Drey, a couple of weeks ago, felt right. Felt that the pitch was surprisingly wet and they were kind of struggling to get their footing. So apparently this isn't a new thing, but spurs looked and we shouldn't really be surprised, totally unprepared for it. So the first two goals were slips and then the third one. Yes, not a slip, but the first one, it's got into his head at that point. Yeah, he tried, I would say, a difficult ish pass with his left foot across his body to the right back and completely fluffed his lines and Alvarez was literally able to walk it into the, I mean, he could have dribbled it over line if he wanted. I think he tapped it in from a yard or so. And there's some great photographs of before Alvarez has even scored. Can't see just face down into presumably the wet top. My foot is quite pleasant, I imagine. I think it's best to have the XG of that goal. I can tell you what it is, yeah. Why you're doing that, Dick Bernas, is this the quickest sub of a keeper based on performance ever? Well, they've actually been three keepers taken off in the Champions League, at an earlier point in matches, but they've all been because of injuries. The only analogous occasion of a manager going, I'm going to make a tactical switch, because my keeper is so rubbish. I guess it would be the power of the Kenya West Fatheringham Swindon. Would you make a visual reaction when he came off and kicked the ball? He didn't look very happy. If it wasn't happy, we were fuming. We were absolutely, I don't know what the expression used, but he's obvious that if he doesn't say sorry to everybody, he's out. But that was later than this. That was in the 20s of the minutes there, I think. This was unprecedented. Sorry, Duncan, you were saying it was the right decision to do. He was saving the player, saving the team in two goals words. Yeah, I think, I mean, Dan might have an opinion, but I think he can pretty gone by that point. He had, I think he had to come off, but he should have got a big hug from Evil Tudor, and a sort of, you know, this is a nightmare, but these things happen, not a complete blast. Wait until half time, because it is less shocking when you take off a goalkeeper during half time. Would you wait until the half time to take him off? Yeah. Well, given that he'd already conceded three goals in the space of 15 minutes, would you be concerned at how things were going? Yeah, but I don't know. It's just... I think if he was more experienced, you'd leave him on, but he is very young, and he is an experienced. I think it was just... It was... For me, I completely grew a shamaiko in that I think when you take him off after that third goal, that he is kind of branded with that now. It's Laura's career. It is Laura's career, yes. All be it on a slightly smaller stage. And I think it's hard to recover from that. Is he, who knows? I mean, he could have stayed on and made, and next time he got the ball, made another howler, and this situation would be even worse. Right. So we just don't know, but I kind of agree with Michelin that I would have wanted to see him, just let him steady himself, boot the next one, 50 yards off the pitch, whatever it is, calm down a bit, and then haul him off. I don't know, half time seems like the logical time to do it. And not only that, I would say, too, they're lost at the dressing room. If he ever had the dressing room because I don't think that was really the case. He's been criticizing, as Dan said, Chris is criticizing the players and exposing his first mistake since he arrived at the club. He's since his first game, but it just made it look worse that like three or four players acknowledging Kinski when he was leaving. Even the Lensko players were giving signs of encouragement and consolation to Kinski's, he went on. At 30 fans applauded him often, which, you know, to be honest, they had plenty of applaud for. There was this thing where the TNT mentioned that I didn't see, because I don't think they had the footage of it, where apparently when Jed Spence was substituted late in the game, he wasn't acknowledged by Tudor either. And he went round the back, TNT was saying, and tap shoot to you on the back, literally, gone into turn round, shook his hand, and then went and sat in the bench, which was pretty telling as to kind of how I think the squad felt. What's up with his men management? I mean, really? If you bring in a guy who's kind of an iron fist to whip guys and shake, maybe that's the way that he approaches substitutions. And he felt that I'm just guessing. Maybe he was this kind of like star. I think he was this stern there as well. I mean, obviously we didn't have this situation there, but maybe he felt that this is the decision I'm making, and it is a mark of my respect for him as a professional, that I'm not going to modely cuddle him as it comes off. I don't know. I don't know. But yeah. And we just on that third go, as Dan asked, a very rare 0.99XG and 0.99XGOT. So I always did what he was expected to do. Maybe that's more than that. In amongst all this, we should salute Adletico Madrid, who were pretty magnificent, at times, very, very magnificent. That Griezmann back he'll flick for the fifth goal was, yeah, it was 20-something seconds from the Rachelis and had a big save to that brilliant counterattack. Yeah, it was one of those nights where I mean, obviously, I suppose being dreadful was kind of occupying most of my head, but it was kind of quite joyful to watch Griezmann, I thought, in full flow. And he came out after it and said he's staying at Adletico the summer. There's obviously this interest from Orlando City. And I think that's great for them, because they're going for a potential double, aren't they, so. Yeah, they made the most of the situation, and I think in a way, it made their own luck. Alvarez had to press Kinski to force that mistake, right? Right. Not wasn't given. That's so true. And obviously last season, in a slightly less dramatic version of what Kinski did for the third goal, Alvarez had that penalty, didn't he? And the, um, it's where I'm a drier to where he hit it on to his own fault. Which essentially changed the rules of football. Not sure what Kinski's going to do that. We'll see. Do you think Spurs, having made the scoreline a little bit more respectable with goes from a Pottoence and Solanki, that this is recoverable? We saw, you mentioned Adletico Madrid taking a 4-0 lead against Barça, who are a bit late Barça Lona, in the first leg of the Coppa del Rey, and then shipping three in the second one. I'm very nearly losing the tie, or at least going to extra time. Can Spurs? I was supposed to famously have recovered from a three-go deficit in a big Champions League game, so I wouldn't completely rule it out. And I think the left kind of lesson from this season, if anything, and it's true of the Newcastle game as well, is that middling and underwhelming Premier League clubs can be extraordinarily competitive in the Champions League, if Spurs were in middling. Well, yeah. I mean, we don't know who's going to be managing by this. Well, yeah, obviously you might send out an incredible team. Precisely. So, I mean, I can't see it. And I think it is really depressing as it is to say, it's not the worst thing in the world that this tie feels half-aver for Spurs, because they've obviously got bigger problems and another priority, which is to put everything into staying in the Premier League. Yeah, the list of fixtures immediately. It's a bit concerning, because you have Liverpool away, and you don't know if you're going to have Christian homemade or João Palinha, because they had the incident and there's concussion protocols to... They both look really, really unwell when they came off after a sickening clash of heads. So, yeah. Richard is already suspended for the Liverpool match, and then, yeah. And Van De Ven. And Van De Ven. Oh, sorry, it's Van De Ven. Van De Ven, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a dragis in Danso back, too, with maybe with someone else, if you want to do it. So Poro is still suspended, is he? No, Poro, I guess, could play in the back three, because Tudor loves... If Tudor's still in charge, he loves playing plays out of position, but Tudor isn't... Poro is not the centre half. Right, that's true. So Van De Ven is suspended, and you have Liverpool away, you have the second leg against the electrical Madrid, and then you have Forrest at home, which is the game for Forrest Purs. I mean, I don't know if you... If you sack Tudor now to just try to save something in this sequence, or if you wait until Liverpool, or second leg, because the Forrest game is just around the corner. Well, if you follow Tudor's philosophy, you say, that's enough damage. It's too much risk to leave him in there, no? I mean, if you apply the Kinsky Principle to Tudor, then you hook him as... It's a kid's name for a principle, isn't it? The Kinsky Principle. Sounds good. To expand on, like, the political analogy, there is, I guess, a case that you leave Tudor in charge for Liverpool, because that's such a hard game for a new manager, like you would leave the PM in for a tricky local elections, and then bin him afterwards. Right. But I just don't think Spurs can afford to do that now. You know, Liverpool aren't... They don't... They're not Liverpool's last season, right? They've got to try and get something in that game. They can't... There's another leap. You've got to put everything into, you know, trying to get a point at the very least, and stop this rot. And so... And then it's less likely with Tudor in charge. And one of the advantages Spurs do have, at the moment, is their gold difference compared to Forrest and Mystam. And so, you don't want to begin to have them filled under Tudor and getting smashed, exactly. You certainly don't. We were pondering on Sunday about how neutrals felt about the prospect of Spurs actually potentially getting relegated. Lots of people wrote in about this, just quickly to finish off this by saying, have some positive comments, in the sense that J.R. saying the league would become more boring. We'd lose a team which plays open football, lots of goals for match, and they're unpredictable too. BZ2 said, they'd be in serious, serious financial trouble. I don't think we should wish that on anyone's club. So true. Others quite happy to wish that on Spurs. Michael Smith says, in terms of the English clubs that tried to start a European super league, it'd be a case of one down five to go. Sean Saunders says it'd be the funniest thing that ever happened in the Premier League. Brett Mendoza compares it to potentially less to winning the Premier League. Michael Tune makes the point that there are too many London or Southern clubs in the Premier League anyway. You seem to be them. Yeah. Well, how much trouble would Spurs be in, financially, if they went down? I guess the positive from Spurs, one of you, is they have these revenue streams that aren't related to football. They've got the stadium, they've got the NFL, and the go-karting, and all the things that Infuriate Spurs found. And arguably it's part of the reason they're in the situation because a lot of fans will tell you that they've taken their eye off the football and that's a kind of afterthought now. So I don't think it would be a sort of, you know, Rangers leads to star catastrophe. But I don't think, I don't share the optimism that Spurs would kind of immediately bounce back up, even with the expanded playoff. So I think the championships are really tough league and they're a bigger club than Leicester, but look at the state Leicester in at the moment. So beyond the owners getting their come-up and, which I think a lot of Spurs fans would kind of love to see. And like, I don't really see any positive in... Well, obviously, I don't see any positive. As well as getting relegated. Cheaper. Cheaper prices. Yeah. Liverpool this weekend then for Spurs, while Forrest who are a point behind face fuller and West Ham, level with Forrest on gold difference, host man city. We'll hear a bit more about West Ham later on. But next up, oh, FC Bayern of Munchen. This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James P.S., Oli K, and the very best football writers around. Oli's it. Marta's French them. Mike and Oli's it. And again the move, and again the second minute. And again, I'm going to attack. Yeah, a copy of the first goal, from you. Thanks, Schöner. Duncan, FC Bayern of Munchen officially now the side no one wants to face this season. Possibly. Yeah, although we can think back to the autumn and Arsenal pretty much outplay them. Although Arsenal do have a tenancies, Dan pointed out earlier to be very good in the autumn and then stumble a bit in the second half. But yeah, I mean, this was just one of the most impressive performances I've seen for a long time. All right, should Atlanta have been hooked after 20 minutes? I think so, yeah. I mean, not the fans to be fair, because they kept going. Yeah, I mean, there was no storming out half time at this. That was really touching actually, the way they supported them, right up until the final whistle. And beyond. And got a goal in the 1930s. And got a goal as well. But 6-1, Bayern 1, in Bergamo. And they didn't even bring Harry Kane off the bench. No, Harry Kane's biggest input was basically celebrating some of the goals on the touch line. So, yeah, that's quite a flex. But I mean, I think the story of the game was Michael Lise, it was just, I mean, that's one of the best performances I've seen for a long time. James Wonghoss was at the stadium and he said the same thing. Two goals and an assist. He's now on 15 goals and 20 to assist this season. Admittedly, if you play for Bayern, you're going to rack up the numbers, because they often have scorelines like this. They did like 6-6, nail, they put 6-1, Friber, they put 8-1, Wolfsburg. Lord knows what they're going to do to Atalanta next week in Munich. But so... At least the away goals rule is no longer there. It's a slight bit of hope for Atalanta. But now, it's over, obviously. But I thought, not only was Lise just brilliant. I mean, his first goal when he bent it in from the edge of the box was outstanding. But I can't remember who was somewhere. But Bayern player had a shot late on that was pretty poor. And he could have squared it. And Lise was absolutely fuming. And this is when they were six and a half. And it's that kind of... I mean, almost to the looking expose, it's that kind of relentless drive for kind of high standards that I think good football teams and great players have. And Bayern have that, you know? And I think people, when company went there, having gone down with, with Burnley, people were a little bit like, well, is that fair? You know, there was a lot criticism of him sticking to his principles at Turfmore and then getting a plum job. But I think the tactical flexibility they're showing, you know, the movement. I think Lewis D has is absolutely outstanding. I mean, Liverpool clearly missed him, you know, way more than they thought they would this season. And yeah, I think they are by far the favourites for that half of the draw. And I think if there's a sort of football injustice based on this season, it will be an arsenal of Bayern final made the best team win. Next up, they will be taking on, if they survive the second leg, they will face either Real Madrid or Man City who will be having their first leg on Wednesday night at a Lanter. Almost certainly now, the Italian interest in the Champions League has ended because they're a sport this Wednesday morning calling it. Not a humiliation for them. But for all of Italian football, they run through the list of what's happened in the last 12 months. You've got Inter in the Champions League final. You've got Norway beating Italy, 7-1 on aggregate, across the two World Cup qualifying games. You've got Inter again by now, City have runaway leaders getting schooled 5-2 by the Buddha glimpsley, instant with the pigeon, of course, as well. But it is worrying times. They are worrying times. Yeah, and just to put it in context, we've got up to data going back sort of 11 years for the Champions League. And Bayern's XG of 4.84 is the most in a knockout game that there has been a black pass to playoffs. So in the last 16 and further on, I mean, that shouldn't be happening at that stage of the competition. But it is... It is the best football in the Champions League, my unique. And you can argue that Arsenal played some brilliant football in the Champions League, which they did. I know there's this big discussion on their style of football in the Premier League, but they did have really big performances in the Champions League. But as Duncan mentioned, the movements, the combinations, it's not just about the individual qualities, which are always flourishing at Bayern Munich. And you see them in big games as well. Stylistically, it is really entertaining to watch. It is very impressive what they're doing. And how impressed were you with Newcastle's performance because Barcelona? You know what I was. I was very impressed. Actually, at first, I thought I was in the wrong game, because the goals were flying in... Right. Yes, at Bayern Munich and Spurs were so distracting. And I was thinking of producer Charlie again. He put me with a bad game, no goals here. But to be fair, I like the match-up, because Newcastle, they have this intensity, and which is such a trademark for them, and they're getting into good places in the final third. And then you have Barcelona with trying to slow down the game and possession. So in the first half, you saw a lot of these. When Newcastle had the ball, they were so direct and so aggressive. And then you thought, OK, they're close to a goal here. But then Barcelona got the ball back. And you thought, no, they can control this match. Absolutely. And then on second half, Barcelona just basically didn't exist, because Newcastle, they were just really good. And I know there was this discussion after the game that they were a bit naive for going to... for the second goal and exposing themselves, potentially, to... to... to... to conceding a goal. But if I was in Newcastle, then I'd be frustrated that they didn't take their opportunities, because they got into good positions so many times. Right. Also, win is one thing. But a one goal win to take to the camp, no, is not really that big a margin. So you can understand. Broadly speaking, though, how... I was glad I'd seen... you got to restrict Barcelona to just one shot on target before the penalty, which was 96th minute, I think. What was it he did? And what other chances that they can... wheel that out again next week in Catalonia? I think they were first really organized. And I think Newcastle, they are good in playing this type of games. That's St. James's part, you know? They just... they know how to defend with energy. And also, they use... they use their wings really well. And Luz Hall had such a great performance against Luminium, really, like, outstanding. And offensively, he was... They know how to play like a team in big games, Newcastle. And that was a big demonstration. Because with Barcelona, you just... you have to be all over them. It's not just defending with your back four. And they were just really organized, full of energy. And they were trying to disrupt their rhythm all the time. And I think that's something they did really well, you know? They were disrupting Barcelona's pace during the whole game, especially in the second half. And they were getting into some really good positions, but that's been the problem with Newcastle this whole season. It's the final touch. Sometimes it is the timing that they don't get right. And that happened a few times in the first half. And then in the second half, it's just that final decision. They were just not... It's not only the finish, but, you know, the final movement. But they were getting into some really good positions and they had really good chances. So they could have scored two, three goals against Barcelona, especially in that second half. So for me, that's the biggest frustration. It was so deflating when they got the penalty, really. Like, it's so... It was really unfair. Because Newcastle were much better than Barcelona. And of course, I know Barcelona, they were hit by injuries. And they will be better at Camp Nou. But it was really a missed opportunity for Newcastle to take a bigger advantage to Camp Nou, definitely. That was the only positive, vaguely, result for the three-ing of the shots. Because Liverpool, meanwhile, in the early game on Tuesday, lost one nil away at Galatasaray. The athletic rights, this one, up as a microcosm of Liverpool season. What do they mean, Duncan? Well, they weren't very good. The whole right-hand side of Liverpool's team was appalling. Like, most of all, I didn't do anything. Joe Gomez just kept getting caught up position. Canate too. Like, Van Dyke, every time the camera cut to Van Dyke, he was like telling Canate to come closer. And Galatasaray just cut through them again and again. I mean, Ossmann was having the night of his life. And it's just the gaps between Liverpool's defence in midfield and attack, which it was huge. And it was, I mean, if they just look so different to the team that were very impressive last season. And we mentioned Lewis Diaz a minute ago, but like, he would have contributed to that game significantly last night in terms of effort. And yeah, I mean, to Dan's point earlier, I mean, you can't rule out spurs, you can't rule out spurs getting something and feel a weekend if they play like that, because they were really poor. On the theme of recurring mistakes from Liverpool against Galatasaray, they considered with a set piece, of course, which is something that's been happening a lot. And they created a lot of chances. And they were wasteful, which has been happening a lot in Liverpool season. Like, you had Ike TK, you had Virts. Virts had a big chance in the first half. Gakpo later on, McAllister, they all had chances to score for Liverpool and no one did. You had individual mistakes, Konate, who's been really good since the start of the year. He was fortunate that Galatasaray's second goal was disallowed by Offside. Yeah, which was a curious decision. It was. Yeah. The lines were flagged for a player who wasn't actually involved in the goal. And fair, I can't really overturn on all failed decisions like that. So the lines were already put in flag up? Yeah, briefly, I think. So it was, as Nassie says, they were so lucky to get away with that. And Konate kind of tied himself in knots to try and keep it out. Right. But it did finish one nil. And for all that Newcastle got a draw at home to Barcelona, do you maybe fancy Liverpool's chances of going through more? We saw how Galatasaray collapsed in the second leg of their previously knockout phase game against Juventus? Yeah, exactly. I do fancy Liverpool's chances because of that. And also, in group stage, they lost three of the four away games. Of course, it was against good opponents. They lost Manchester City. They lost wine, French food. And they also lost to Monaco. And as you mentioned, they almost threw away their advantage against Juventus. So, you know, it's, you would expect. It's a Champions League night at Amfield. It's only one goal. I really fancy Liverpool's chance. But they definitely need to play better than they did. Because it was not a good performance from Liverpool at all. And the voices calling for slot to maybe drop Mo Salah for a bit and maybe, you know, suffer a few interviews off the back of it. It was a very discreet performance from Salah again. In the sense that. He didn't do much, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know. But and I think that the thing that doesn't play into Salah's favour is that Río, Gumoja, he's been taking his chances. He's been performing really well. So there is a section of fans who would expect him to start. I don't know if in a Champions League game like this, you know, but it is a fact that he's been taking while his chances. Right. Well, if they do get through, they'll be facing either Chelsea. Love a Liverpool Chelsea Champions League clash. Or the holders Paris Saint-Germain, those two teams will be facing each other in their first, like Wednesday evening, the other games Wednesday evening. And rather, Madrid against Manchester City, Bodo Glimbed against Sporting and Bia Arsenal in the early kickoff. Next up for us, let's move on to the FA Cup and that business in Brazil. You're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richards and now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy a St. Glorious Technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show. Oh, Mondays saw the loss of the FA Cup 5th round games played. It was West Ham against Brentford, 2-2 after 90 minutes, still 2-2 after extra time to the Winter penalties, where the hammers were pretty much perfect from the spot. And Dango Watara wasn't with his Brahim Dias Esk penincred attempt. He's taking his time. Oh my lord. What was that all about? Not the time. I'd say that was worse, quite a considerably worse than Dias Es Africa combinations. Yeah, I know, Lutman did a probably worse one at that same goal, I think. They all look bad when the keeper's a stunster. I see. It would have been great if it had died. I mean, we've talked about this many times before. The anger that is generated, particularly amongst proper football man, when Mondays not scored, it's a shot that it doesn't go in. Is that any worse than trying to put it in the corner and scuffing it? Not really. Yeah, it's a legitimate approach to penalties that has often worked. You might think the goal can be... Ty risk, sometimes it doesn't work, but it's also high risk doing what? Was it Maverapart loss? You know, well, he went into the... What a corner. That's kind of the hardest shot. And if it comes off the bar, you're saying, oh well, you know, it couldn't have been a bit safer with it. Well, it was another positive result for West Ham anyway, who've now only lost two of 11 matches across all competitions. So looking good, obviously, that's not looking good for Spur. A lot of football players should have never looked. The concern, perhaps, though, for the Hammers, was the sort of crescenture of some of them who's been their most exciting player of late limping off the field after the final whistle. I'm not sure the entity of that injury, but they have a big game coming up themselves. The Hammers, they are hosting Manchester City this weekend. As for the FA Cup, they're in the quarter final. They will be hosting leads. Oh, and that rolls around. The weekend of the 4th, April, the other quarter final ties are Saints against Arsenal, Chelsea against Port Vale, and Man City against Liverpool says Brian M. Surprise City didn't draw Real Madrid again. Then I, in the FA Cup. My hot take on the FA Cup draws it. Should not happen before the game that all the games have been played. Because if you're West Ham, right? Yeah. And maybe I'm misunderstanding the psyche of, you know, hyper competitive, professional footballers. If you draw City or Arsenal away, that changes the dynamics. Then if you draw Port Vale at home, surely how you're feeling about the competition and playing that game against Brentford, right? All the draws should be after everyone's earned their place in the round. It really irritates me that they feel the need to do it before the game. But the law, L-O-R-E, law about the draw is just ridiculous as well. I can get people going, I used to be on the radio at lunchtime, so that's when it should be and... I'm not too fast about that. No, but I get sick. I totally agree. It's a functional thing that happens after the games have been played. Yeah. Yeah, if you were going to start a Cup competition from scratch, there's nowhere you'd go less draw before the matches have been played. Is it for... Because people are going to switch off after the game or was? Yeah, I guess so. And... Well, no one's watching the build-ups of Brentford West Ham, by the way, so... Right, well, maybe that's why they're not drawing. Because I imagine lots of people did for that reason. Anyway, as a result of Man City drawing Liverpool, they do have a remarkable set of fixtures coming up over the next six weeks. Real Madrid tonight in the Champions League Wednesday. Then West Ham at the weekend away, which no longer all that easy-looking fixture, Real Madrid then at home in the Champions League next week, followed by Arsenal and the Carabuy Cup final, followed by Liverpool in the FA Cup. Then, if they get past Real Madrid, they've got either Bayern or... They've got Bayern in the Champions League. Then they've got Chelsea in the Premier League. Then another clash with Bayern before their next opponent in the Premier League, who are Natalie? Arsenal. Arsenal in the big title decider. That's a round of fixtures. The other question about it. Anyway, anyway, we can deal with all of those games as they who've more closely interviewed. To finish off today's show, I guess we need to talk about something that nobody likes to see. Players involved in on-field kerfuffles. That's an understatement. Right. So this was on Sunday in the Campionado Minero. Yes, what I've done for your Portuguese? Thank you so much in Brazil, of course. And it was Cruzeiro against Atlético. Yeah. Atlético Minero. Adabi. Yes, big Darby. Big Darby, right. And, well, what happened? Well, it all started with a clash between Cruzeiros forward Christian and Atlético's goalkeeper, Averson. Right. Averson reaction. Averson's reaction. Let's get into this. I felt he could have got out of the way. Could he not? It was completely out of proportion. The goalkeeper's reaction. You think? Yeah, I thought it was. Okay. The goalkeeper's reaction was basically going down in a kind of MMA style, kneeling on his chest. And, yeah. Yes. Yeah. But the thing that surprised me the most, and this is what I was trying to make sense of when I saw the footage, was how did this become? Honestly, the biggest... I don't even know how to call it. It was just... Is it beyond the brawl? I'm not sure the next level is up. I mean, it was a full-scale fight. There were flying kicks. Yes. Fisticuffs. Armed military police. All over the bridge. I've never seen anything like it. Mateus Pereira is asking. He crossed the line, Mateus Pereira. It's just a phase. Demono Mateus Pereira shot. Mateo volto deira. He defend you, Averson. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. That's what happened. Christian goes in hard, you lay on the... Let's go keep it, Averson. While chasing a loose ball, and I feel he could have got out the way, but leaves both feet in. Certainly, Averson feels the same thing. Push him to the ground, kneels on his chest, at which point all the cruzero players come flying in. And in that scuffle, you get Averson... I think his head gets whacked into a post. Very regrettable. Then you got everybody running all over the field, hitting everybody else. 23 red cards were awarded, 12 to cruzero and 11 to a letter go. Who were the players who didn't get booked? Where were they at this point? Where were they at this point? No, there were players who were just trying to, you know, break up the fight and just trying to calm everyone down. They were just really the exception. And I think the important thing is just try to bring some context into how come this small action, small ejection became like this gigantic fight that lasted like 10 minutes, I think. And then the game was... It was done anyway, but then... So it's first... Sorry, second half stoppage is when the challenge came in. Yes, exactly. Well, this has been building up for a very long time. It is a rivalry. It is a big rivalry. But the past times they met, there was a lot of, you know, arguments on the pitch and off the pitch as well. A lot of provocative interviews and social media posts. And this has been happening for years, really, because the last time cruzero won a title was in 2019. It was the state championship. And then they got relegated. They went through a bit of a big crisis. And Atlético was very dominant in the state. So they won six times in a row. They could have won... If they won the final, which cruzero was the champions, by the way. And they could have won for the first time ever the seventh in a row. There are a few players who were key in these provocative actions, leading up to games. And one of them was actually Lianco, a defender. Yes, Lianco, a defender who played for Southampton, actually. Lianco, who got hit by no less than seven different people in the course of this melee. Yes. So he, not by chance, because he's been giving provocative statements for quite some time after all games, Atlético played against cruzero, he's a classical defender. So he was always in the middle of things. You had other players who went through all this build-up in the past few years. One of them being the go-keeper ever. Yes, so he won five of the last six titles with Atlético Minato. So there was everything... All of this was building up, even small things like the referee. In a state championship, you'll always use the referees from your state. But because it was Atlético Cruzero the final, they didn't trust the referees from the state. So they brought referees from another state, which is very unusual. So there were a lot of small things leading up to this and then it held broke loose and everything happened. The thing is, you have 23 players with red cards and the suspension is only going to apply for next year's state championship. Nothing's going to happen to them now, which is ridiculous. You have the league starting, the national league, and nothing's going to happen to these players right now because there are different entities. The CBF's not going to bring in any... It's very rare that CBF would interfere with state-matter issues, because there are just different entities. There's Feder Assominated, it's the federation from Minas Gerais and the Brazilian FA. So it's quite shocking. And to be fair, James, it's very lucky that the police acted quickly in the stands. Because I was actually talking to a friend of mine who was pitchside when everything happened. She was reporting pitchside. And she said that there was a movement of Atlético fans because it was half and half the stadium. And there was a movement of Atlético fans just going towards Crusade fans because, of course, they feel entitled to, you know, be a part of all that. And the police acted really quickly, otherwise it could have gone way worse. Yeah. What I liked is there was, like, some coach... I'm not sure what was the team he was part of. He kind of runs under the pitch and he's obviously trying to calm everyone down. He's got his hands out, he's yelling. Then he just sees an opposition play on the ground and he just boots it in the back as well as he can. A lot of score-setting after years of a trash talk by the sound of it. A lot of people pointing out Huki coming in and landing a punch from behind on Lucas Romero. But then again, other people pointing out the Lucas Romero had himself been one of the seven people hitting Lianco and he did that from behind as well. But that's the thing. I mean, Huki is an experienced player. He needs to know better. Of course, after the match, he came out and he apologized and he said it was embarrassing behavior. That's the Hulk going against violence for once. But given his experience and given his leadership, he just needs to do better. You just can't get involved in a fight like this when you're almost short-forty and... Yeah, it turns 40 in July. Yes, so playing in bigger stages and it just sets just terrible examples. When are they next going to face each other? That's a good question. I don't know when they're going to... They will face each other in the league. Okay, in the Brazilian round. Yes, yes, yes. But and that's interesting because it won't be half and half. So, yeah, there is this element as well. The first game, where is it going to be played at? Hmm, okay. Third of May? Third of May says pretty such early. Oh, radio, my gosh. Oh, that's not good. Wow, that's going to be a hot ticket. Crokey, as you mentioned, it was Cruzeiro who ended Adleto goes run by winning this state championship with one new victory in the game. But like... She she is the manager. She she's their manager. Yes, yes, former Brazil national team manager. Wow. Have you ever seen anything like it Duncan? Well, we talked in the middle of the day about the famous Manchester United against Arsenal Brawl that saw both deductive points back in 1990 and Natalie pointing out a few players didn't get involved. But I think that, you know, that last with you forever with David Seaman was the only player who didn't get involved in that brawl. I don't think everybody got over that. Hmm. Well, we'll keep an eye out for the third of May. Well, do you? And that rematch. But I think that's it then for today's totally football show. Lovely to see you, Natalie. And best of luck on the means streets of Barcelona. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Dan, better times ahead. I do hope so. Yeah. Best of luck for the second leg and for Anfield this weekend. Duncan, good luck to you with Wickham and any other adjacent side. Well, at least first one tune in luck with two minutes to go. What happened to Wickham? It was great. What happened to him? They lost 3-2. Oh, and you were two in the luck with two minutes to go. And I was there. It was painful, but, you know, just have to take it on the chin and go again. Hmm. Indeed. We'll be going again on Thursday morning with our reaction to Wednesday's fixtures and, of course, a big look forward to the weekend in the premier league. Do you hope you join us for that? For now from all of us here, it's goodbye. You've been listening to the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network. 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