🎙️ The Totally Football Show
•September 29, 2026
•⏱️ 1h 8m
Totally Extra: Absolutely Fabregas
🎧 Listen to Original Episode →1. Executive Overview: Core Theses & Key Revelations
The retrospective assessment of Francesc "Cesc" Fabregas i Soler on The Totally Football Show marks a watershed moment in contemporary football journalism. Panelists James Richardson, Adrian Clark, Michael Cox, and Liam conducted a sweeping forensic audit of a career defined by singular technical brilliance, structural irony, and tactical non-conformity. The conversation straddles two distinct epochs: Fabregas the player—a prodigy who embodied the tragic elegance of post-Invincibles Arsenal before becoming a pragmatically decorated winner at Barcelona and Chelsea—and Fabregas the manager, who in 2026 has engineered one of the most astonishing tactical ascents in modern European football at Serie A outfit Como 1907.
At the center of the panel’s analysis lies Producer Charlie’s provocative thesis: Fabregas operated as "Batman" for teams that won virtually nothing, and "Robin" for the sides that conquered domestic and international football. At Arsenal, where he inherited the midfield mantle as a teenager following Patrick Vieira's departure, Fabregas was the undisputed protagonist of a side undergoing financial austerity amidst the construction of the Emirates Stadium. He produced masterclass passing displays while carrying a transitional squad that ultimately lacked the elite depth to secure major silverware. Conversely, during his trophy-laden spells with Spain’s golden generation, Pep Guardiola’s Barcelona, and Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea, Fabregas frequently operated as a tactical luxury, an opportunistic accelerator, or a high-impact catalyst rather than the foundational centerpiece around which an entire tactical system revolved.
The episode unearths four primary analytical theses that refuel the ongoing debate regarding Fabregas’ placement in the footballing pantheon:
- The Polarized Arsenal Legacy: Former Arsenal winger Adrian Clark highlights the emotional dichotomy surrounding Fabregas in North London. While mathematically and aesthetically hailed as perhaps the purest passer ever to wear the Arsenal shirt—surpassing even Liam Brady in distribution vision—his exit to Barcelona in 2011 generated deep resentment. Perceptions that he downed tools during a vulnerable period left his reputation fractured among Emirates supporters, placing his legacy just beneath Patrick Vieira.
- The Vertical Maverick of Tiki-Taka: Tactical analyst Michael Cox deconstructs Fabregas' unique identity within Spanish football. Unlike his Iberian contemporaries Xavi Hernandez and Andres Iniesta, whose game was built on low-risk ball retention and spatial control, Fabregas possessed an aggressive, forward-thinking directness cultivated in the Premier League. This vertical urgency often led to higher turnover rates but provided Spain and Chelsea with an indispensable line-breaking threat in tightly contested matches.
- The Positional Renegade Turned Managerial Innovator: Michael Cox and Liam detail Fabregas’ friction with dogmatic system managers—most notably Antonio Conte at Chelsea—who struggled to integrate his positional wandering into rigid defensive shapes. Paradoxically, Fabregas has translated his profound footballing intelligence into a sophisticated managerial methodology at Como 1907, utilizing radical goal-kick geometry and fluid double-pivots that have propelled the Italian side from Serie B into the UEFA Champions League by 2026.
- The Tailored Exit Architecture: The panel examines the strategic business model surrounding Fabregas' tenure at Como. Operating as both minority shareholder and head coach alongside Osian Roberts, Fabregas enjoys an unprecedented level of executive autonomy. However, reports of a specialized release clause permitting his departure strictly for elite clubs in London and Catalonia underscore his eventual trajectory toward top-tier European dugouts.
2. Context & Background: The Landscape Leading to This Conversation
To fully appreciate the gravity of the panel’s insights, one must contextualize the macroeconomic, tactical, and historical conditions surrounding Fabregas’ journey from 2003 through 2026. The discussion unfolds against a milestone temporal backdrop: thirty years since Arsene Wenger arrived at Highbury in October 1996, fundamentally altering the physical and technical standards of English football. Wenger’s arrival introduced plyometrics, strict nutritional regimens, and dynamic European passing patterns to a skeptical Arsenal dressing room—a structural revolution that paved the way for a 16-year-old Fabregas to make his debut in October 2003.
Fabregas entered the Arsenal first team during a period of monumental structural transition. The club’s migration from Highbury to the Emirates Stadium in 2006 imposed stringent debt-servicing obligations, forcing Arsenal into an era of fiscal discipline. As established Invincibles—such as Patrick Vieira, Thierry Henry, Robert Pires, and Gilberto Silva—departed, Arsenal were stripped of their physical supremacy. Wenger was forced to shop in secondary transfer markets, assembling a young, highly technical, but physically light squad around Fabregas. The Catalan midfielder became the lone world-class pillar in a side that consistently produced attractive football but lacked the defensive balance and squad depth to compete against financial titans like Chelsea and Manchester United.
Simultaneously, the global tactical meta was being redefined by Spain’s dominance between 2008 and 2012. Spanish football prioritized *tiki-taka*—a style reliant on metronomic passing cycles, spatial overloads, and defensive possession. Yet Fabregas remained a hybrid entity. Having developed his physical resilience and decision-making tempo in the high-intensity atmosphere of the Premier League from age 16, he absorbed a directness that differed sharply from the patient circulation of Barcelona’s academy products. This hybrid profile made him both a tactical anomaly in Spain and an elite vertical orchestrator in England.
By 2026, the footballing landscape presents a fascinating inversion. As a coach, Fabregas has emerged within an era dominated by micro-managed positional play (*Juego de Posicion*). His work at Como 1907—a club backed by the immense capital of Indonesia's Djarum Group—places him at the intersection of modern private equity football investments and innovative tactical design. Understanding how a player who frequently defied positional boundaries has evolved into one of Serie A's most meticulous tacticians requires a granular examination of his playing career and managerial mechanics.
3. Deep-Dive Thematic Breakdown
3.1 The Arsenal Dilemma: Architectural Mastermind in an Era of Austerity
Fabregas’ eight-year tenure at Arsenal (2003–2011) represents one of the most compelling individual peaks in Premier League history, framed by systemic structural constraints. Inheriting the central midfield domain following Patrick Vieira's departure to Juventus in 2005, Fabregas fundamentally altered Arsenal’s tactical identity. Where Vieira provided dominant physical coverage, box-to-box power, and defensive disruption, Fabregas introduced unprecedented spatial awareness, rapid vision, and progressive line-breaking distribution. Adrian Clark’s assertion that Fabregas stands as the finest passer in Arsenal's history—ahead of legendary figures like Liam Brady—is supported by empirical metrics: during his peak seasons in North London, Fabregas consistently led Europe’s top five leagues in open-play chance creation and expected assists (xA).
However, Fabregas’ brilliance unfolded within a squad suffering from post-stadium construction austerity. As Clark notes, the team Fabregas captained was fundamentally different from the Invincibles side he joined as a teenager. Arsenal were operating in a secondary player recruitment pool, surrounding their talismanic captain with promising but unproven talents such as Denilson, Manuel Almunia, and Nicklas Bendtner. Wenger’s tactical framework shifted to a light-footed 4-2-3-1, engineered entirely to maximize Fabregas' orchestrating talents in the final third. Yet, without elite defensive anchors or world-class central defenders, Arsenal repeatedly capitulated in title run-ins and European knockout ties, yielding only a single FA Cup triumph in 2005 during Fabregas’ entire spell.
This dynamic cultivated deep frustration for both player and fanbase. By 2011, as Barcelona executed an aggressive public courtship, Fabregas’ desire to return to his boyhood club culminated in his controversial departure. Clark outlines the unvarnished sentiment of the Emirates faithful: the perception that Fabregas actively downed tools to force his move back to Catalonia severed his emotional bond with the club. Hailed initially as the savior of Arsenal’s post-highbury project, he left regarded by vast swathes of the fanbase as a traitor, placing a permanent asterisk next to his status among the club's pantheon of legends.
3.2 Tactical Profiling: The Vertical Maverick of Spain's Golden Generation
Michael Cox offers a nuanced tactical re-evaluation of Fabregas' player profile, contrasting his playmaking philosophy with the traditional Spanish midfield paradigm. During Spain's golden era (2008–2012), the national team's dominance was anchored by Xavi, Iniesta, and Sergio Busquets. This trio executed a style dependent on absolute spatial discipline, lateral circulation, and low turnover rates designed to deny opposition counter-attacks. Fabregas, having spent his formative footballing years exposed to the frantic transitions of English football, operated with a distinctly different internal compass.
Fabregas possessed an intrinsic verticality. When receiving the ball between opposition lines, his immediate impulse was not to recycle possession laterally, but to execute high-risk, high-reward forward passes that split defensive blocks. While this instinct resulted in a higher turnover percentage than his Spanish peers, it provided an essential tactical dimension to national team coach Vicente del Bosque. In low-block scenarios where opponent defenses settled into deep compact banks, Fabregas was the ultimate destabilizer.
This characteristic was highlighted during Euro 2012, where Del Bosque famously deployed Fabregas as a "False 9" in the absence of David Villa. Rather than playing as a conventional reference point, Fabregas dropped into half-spaces to link play before making late, incisive runs into the penalty box—scoring the equalizer against Italy in the opening match and converting the winning penalty in the semifinal shootout against Portugal. Producer Charlie’s classification of Fabregas as "Robin" during this era captures the historical paradox: while Xavi and Iniesta were immortalized as the primary architects of Spain's golden age, Fabregas was the decisive tactical substitute and versatile catalyst who repeatedly made the difference in major tournament fixtures.
3.3 The Chelsea Reinvention & The Conte Paradox
Fabregas’ move to Chelsea in the summer of 2014 represented a calculated pivot toward pragmatic glory. Having grown disillusioned at Barcelona—where he was routinely shifted out of his natural central position to accommodate Lionel Messi and Xavi—Fabregas sought an environment where his orchestrating capabilities were fully appreciated. Under Jose Mourinho, he formed an immediate, devastating central midfield pairing with Nemanja Matic. Playing in a deeper double-pivot, Fabregas provided the long-range precision and final-third vision that propelled Chelsea to the 2014/15 Premier League title, accumulating 18 assists in a sublime individual campaign.
However, his tenure at Stamford Bridge also exposed significant tactical friction, particularly following the arrival of Antonio Conte in 2016. Conte’s strict 3-4-3 system demanded intense physical press-resistance, rigid positional alignment, and non-stop work rate from his central midfield pairing. Michael Cox highlights a telling moment observed at Stamford Bridge, where Matic was seen screaming at Fabregas during a kickoff to drop 15 yards back into position. Fabregas’ tendency to roam freely in search of space disrupted Conte’s meticulous defensive structure, leading the Italian manager to bench Fabregas in favor of the more disciplined pairing of Nemanja Matic and N'Golo Kante.
Yet, Fabregas' quality proved impossible to suppress. Rather than agitating for a move, he adapted to a super-sub role, coming off the bench to unlock deep-lying defenses with unmatched passing efficiency. As Cox notes, Conte was eventually worn down by Fabregas' sheer technical excellence, integrating him into key starting lineups during Chelsea's 2016/17 title-winning run and 2018 FA Cup victory. This era cemented Fabregas’ Premier League legacy: he proved that even when reduced to a specialized weapon within a rigid system, his passing range remained a decisive tactical asset.
3.4 The Como Lab: Hybrid Executive-Coaching and Tactical Innovations
The transformation of Cesc Fabregas from an elusive midfield genius into one of Serie A’s most intriguing tactical minds at Como 1907 represents a extraordinary chapter in modern football management. Arriving at the Lombardy club in Serie B in 2022 as both a player and minority shareholder, Fabregas quickly transitioned to managing the youth Primavera squad before stepping into the first-team hotseat in November 2023. Operating initially alongside Osian Roberts to satisfy UEFA coaching license requirements, Fabregas guided Como to Serie A promotion in May 2024. By 2026, he has secured historic Champions League qualification for Como and earned the Serie A Manager of the Year award.
Fabregas’ setup at Como is defined by a unique dual structure. Introduced to the club through Darren Dean (son of former Arsenal vice-chairman David Dean), Fabregas maintains direct equity ownership and complete authority over recruitment and football strategy. In interviews cited by the panel, Fabregas acknowledges that this level of institutional alignment is rare in top-flight football: "I know that what I have here probably I will never have anywhere else... wherever I go after, I will be a head coach. Here, it is much more than that." This total executive backing has enabled him to construct a highly specialized, international squad operating in English, Spanish, and French, largely bypassing traditional native Italian player bases.
Tactically, Fabregas’ Como side exhibits sophisticated and unorthodox mechanics that reflect his own playing experiences:
- Radical Goal-Kick Geometry: To bypass aggressive high-pressing schemes, Fabregas positions his two central defenders on the extreme corners of the penalty area, while the remaining eight outfield players push up toward the halfway line. The goalkeeper and central defenders execute a 3-v-2 build-up sequence inside their own box, drawing opposition pressers out of position and opening up massive 40-yard driving lanes for central defenders to carry the ball directly into midfield space.
- Fluid Double-Pivot Rotations: Mirroring his own aversion to static positioning, Fabregas deploys a central midfield pairing that continuously interchanges positions. Neither player is restricted to a pure holding role; instead, they rotate vertically and laterally to create numerical overloads in half-spaces while maintaining dynamic rest-defense coverage.
- Relentless Touchline Standards: Adrian Clark’s firsthand observation of Fabregas during a preseason friendly at the Emirates Stadium highlights his demanding managerial persona. Dressed impeccably, Fabregas maintained an intense touchline presence, constantly demanding higher technical precision and positional discipline even when his team was dominating play.
Michael Cox raises a critical analytical caveat regarding Fabregas’ managerial success: the "Graham Potter paradox." Backed by the Hartono brothers (Djarum Group), the wealthiest owners in Italian football, Como possesses financial muscle and scouting networks vastly superior to standard newly promoted clubs. Distinguishing between Fabregas’ raw coaching acumen and the strategic advantage of high-capital squad building remains an ongoing debate among tactical analysts.
3.5 The Historical Continuum: Almanac References and Elite Precedents
The panel’s review of key historical milestones from the footballing Almanac provides a rich temporal baseline against which Fabregas’ career and managerial philosophy can be benchmarked:
| Date / Event | Historical Milestone | Analytical Connection to Fabregas & Tactical Evolution |
|---|---|---|
| October 1, 1996 | Arsene Wenger officially takes charge of Arsenal FC after leaving Nagoya Grampus Eight. | Adrian Clark provides an eyewitness account of Wenger's first day: introducing Pilates, plyometrics, and new dietary standards to a bemused squad. Within six weeks, the squad experienced dramatic physical and technical progression. This revolution established the light-footed, passing philosophy that later allowed a 16-year-old Fabregas to flourish in North London. |
| September 28, 2004 | Wayne Rooney scores a hat-trick on his Manchester United debut vs. Fenerbahce in the Champions League. | Highlights the era of teenage precocity in the mid-2000s Premier League. Like Rooney at Old Trafford, Fabregas broke into English football as a teenager possessing immediate tactical maturity, rapidly assuming leadership responsibilities in elite competitions. |
| September 29, 2007 | Portsmouth beat Reading 7-4 in the highest-scoring match in Premier League history (featuring a Benjani hat-trick). | Illustrates the open, transitional nature of mid-2000s Premier League football. It was precisely this high-tempo, expansive tactical landscape that shaped Fabregas' unique vertical passing style, setting him apart from his Spanish contemporaries. |
| PFA Young Player Award History | Only six non-British players have won the PFA Young Player of the Year award in its 53-year history. | Fabregas belongs to an exclusive cohort of foreign prodigies—alongside Cristiano Ronaldo, Eden Hazard, Harry Kewell, Nicolas Anelka, and Leroy Sane—who mastered the physical and mental demands of English football at an early age. |
4. Speaker Perspectives & Analytical Contrast
The discussion on The Totally Football Show derives its strength from the distinct analytical lenses brought by each panelist. The conversation highlights key points of alignment, subtle friction, and contrasting evaluations regarding Fabregas’ historical standing and managerial ceiling.
James Richardson serves as the narrative anchor, steering the panel toward broader philosophical questions. Richardson frames Producer Charlie's "Batman vs. Robin" dichotomy, forcing the panel to confront the paradox of Fabregas' trophy distribution. He also probes the strategic implications of Fabregas' Como contract clauses, exploring whether his ultimate destination lies in London or Catalonia.
Adrian Clark offers the perspective of an ex-Arsenal player and eye-witness practitioner. Clark evaluates Fabregas through an emotional and technical lens. He is resolute in proclaiming Fabregas the greatest passer Arsenal has ever seen, while acknowledging that his controversial departure prevents him from eclipsing Patrick Vieira in the club’s pantheon. Clark’s touchline observations at the Emirates reveal a deep respect for Fabregas’ managerial drive, emphasizing his uncompromising standards and modern tactical aesthetic.
Michael Cox provides rigorous tactical breakdown and skepticism. Cox pushes back against uncritical praise, highlighting Fabregas’ defensive and positional flaws during his playing days at Chelsea under Conte. Furthermore, Cox articulates the "Graham Potter paradox" regarding Como, cautioning that Fabregas’ rapid success must be evaluated alongside the unprecedented financial resources provided by Como's billionaire ownership group. Nevertheless, Cox celebrates Fabregas' revolutionary goal-kick routines and vertical passing bravery.
Liam represents the pragmatism of Chelsea's winning culture. Liam views Fabregas' career through the lens of silverware and fulfillment. For Liam, Fabregas’ move to Stamford Bridge was a necessary correction that allowed a world-class playmaker to claim the domestic titles his talent deserved. He notes that despite spending fewer years at Chelsea than at Arsenal, Fabregas enjoys an enduring, unblemished bond with Chelsea supporters, who continue to sing his name at Stamford Bridge.
| Panelist | Primary Analytical Focus | Stance on Arsenal Legacy | Assessment of Como Managerial Success |
|---|---|---|---|
| Adrian Clark | Player performance, technical mastery, emotional fan dynamics. | Best passer in Arsenal history; falls just short of Vieira due to departure narrative. | Highly impressed by touchline intensity, demanding standards, and modern aesthetic. |
| Michael Cox | Tactical mechanics, positional structures, squad economics. | Vertical anomaly within Spain's golden generation; positional renegade under Conte. | Innovator in goal-kick mechanics; jury out on coaching vs. billionaire financial backing. |
| Liam | Trophy fulfillment, player psychology, Chelsea fan reception. | Vindicated by Chelsea move; transformed into a proven winner outside North London. | Views Como as an ideal, self-paced laboratory for a elite coach in waiting. |
| James Richardson | Career narrative framing, historical parallels, contract architecture. | Central figure in the "Batman vs. Robin" career paradox. | Highlighting the bespoke London/Catalonia contract clause as a strategic springboard. |
5. Strategic & Industry Implications
The insights generated during this retrospective extend far beyond an individual player evaluation; they illuminate major structural shifts occurring across global football governance, tactical evolution, and club management in 2026.
First, Fabregas’ career trajectory illustrates the dramatic evolution of the central midfield playmaker over the past two decades. In the mid-2000s, elite teams built entire systems around roaming, creative playmakers who operated with minimal defensive responsibilities. Today’s tactical landscape, dominated by hyper-structured pressing patterns and rigid positional play, leaves little room for positional renegades. Fabregas' own evolution as a manager—implementing strict goal-kick patterns and coordinated double-pivots—demonstrates how former playmakers have adapted to an era where spatial control is calculated down to the square meter.
Second, Fabregas' dual role at Como 1907 introduces a modern model of athlete-investor governance. By combining minority equity ownership with head coaching duties, Fabregas has bypassed the traditional vulnerability of modern football managers, who are frequently subject to rapid dismissal by volatile boardrooms. Backed by the Djarum Group's vast capital, Como represents a new paradigm of private-equity football development, where elite former players are given structural equity and long-term executive control to build a club’s identity from the ground up.
Third, the presence of a specialized "London/Catalonia" exit clause in Fabregas' Como contract reflects a growing trend toward bespoke contract architecture for elite young managers. As European superclubs like Arsenal, Chelsea, and Barcelona plan their long-term managerial successions beyond incumbents like Mikel Arteta, Xabi Alonso, and Hansi Flick, managers are increasingly negotiating contractual flexibility that permits seamless transitions back to institutions where they hold deep historical ties.
6. Looking Ahead: Unresolved Questions & Next Milestones
As Cesc Fabregas continues his dual trajectory as Como’s dugout architect and one of Europe’s most coveted young managers, several critical questions remain unanswered:
- The Tactical Sustainability Test: Can Fabregas sustain Como’s domestic and European performance once opposing Serie A and Champions League analysts devise countermeasures to his radical goal-kick geometry and fluid midfield rotations?
- The Wealth vs. Acumen Paradigm: How will Fabregas’ coaching reputation evolve if he transitions from the resource-rich environment of Como to a high-pressure European superclub where financial parity is assumed and immediate tactical results are mandatory?
- The Future of the Exit Clause: When the managerial seats at Arsenal, Chelsea, or Barcelona eventually become vacant, will Fabregas trigger his specialized release clause, and how will the respective fanbases react to his potential return?
- Reconciliation at the Emirates: Can time fully heal the emotional rupture between Fabregas and Arsenal supporters, allowing him to return to North London in a managerial capacity without the shadow of 2011 looming over his appointment?
Ultimately, Cesc Fabregas’ legacy remains a fascinating study in footballing duality. As a player, he was the visionary maverick who blurred the lines between English directness and Spanish artistry. As a manager in 2026, he has transformed those experiences into an innovative tactical blueprint at Como 1907. Whether he remains in Lombardy to build a long-term empire or eventually ascends to the dugouts of London or Catalonia, Fabregas continues to demonstrate that his understanding of the game operates on a plane accessible to only the rarest footballing minds.
💬 Key Quotes & Speaker Breakdown
Fabregas' relationship with Arsenal fans
"Because of that attitude we spoke about—because they just felt like he did down tools to get that move—the fans did turn on him. He was regarded as a snake at Arsenal."
Cesc Fabregas career narrative
"Producer Charlie's take on Fabregas is that he was Batman for a team that didn't win anything, and he was Robin for the teams that did."
Cesc Fabregas Arsenal legacy
"He's up there among the greatest midfielders to have worn the [Arsenal] badge. I think he's the best passer Arsenal have ever had. He falls just short for me to Patrick Vieira, but he was a very special player."
Arsenal's decline during stadium move
"The team was not the team that he [Fabregas] came into. It was the stadium move, and the funds were just not there anymore. Arsenal were having to shop in a different pool. He was a special player within a good team, but ultimately the team wasn't a special team anymore."
Fabregas under Antonio Conte
"Conte is just not at all convinced [by Fabregas]. He wants two really solid players in front of the back four and Fabregas barely plays. It's clear that Conte almost just gets worn down by how good Fabregas is."
Cesc Fabregas tactical analysis
"At one point he was the best passer in the Premier League, and I also just liked the fact he was so forward-thinking. He offered a drive and a directness and a purposefulness that I think sometimes was otherwise lacking from Spain."
Fabregas' role in Spain's golden era
"I think he was a really important part of that Spanish generation. You don't have to be that guy that's remembered in that famous starting 11 to make the difference. He made the difference in a lot of big matches."
Fabregas' Barcelona exit
"I think he [Fabregas] left Spain a bit disillusioned and wanting to go somewhere where he could feel really central to a team again. And he certainly got that at Chelsea."
Arsene Wenger arrival at Arsenal
"I remember the players' slight bemusement really at how different everything was [when Arsene Wenger arrived]. That first warm-up where you're doing Pilates and plyometric stuff, and it's like, 'What's going on here?'"
📜 View Full Episode Verbatim Transcript 95,571 characters
The Athletic FC Totally extra. Today, absolutely Fabregas. We get some sesqued education on the mulleted team who was better than Roy Kean, who wore a magic hat and was one of the greatest bosses the Premier League has ever witnessed. Was he Batman though, and a team that didn't win and Robin in his teams that did? How long before he's back in London on the bench, we'll be asking those questions and more in this totally extra. Monday the 28th September, and today's totally extra features Adrian Clark, hello Adrian. Hello. Michael Cox, hello Michael. Hi James. Hello, and we're here to talk about sesfabregas, Adrian. Where does he stand among your pantheon of Arsenal legends? Oh, he's gone for a big one, early doors, yeah. Good question. Well, he's up there among the greatest midfielders, so to have worn the badge. Is he the greatest passer Arsenal have ever had? Again, that's a big compliment. People talk about Liam Brady, don't they, but I think he's the best I've seen, definitely. I think it's the best all-round centre midfielder. He falls just short for me to Patrick Vieira, but he was a very special player, and just to see him as a teenager looks so accomplished, so silky, was an absolute treat. I've got to say. Liam, it's lucky you went to Chelsea, so you could actually win something, eh? That is the, that is the duality of Fabregas' Premier League legacy, isn't it, in that I think a lot of his iconic moments are tied up in this youthful, prodigy, Arsenal era, but yeah, he came to Chelsea to be a winner. That's what they say. It's down for bridge anyway. Yeah, fair enough. Michael, we did Zidane recently on Totally Extra, and you would mention the fact that for you, what made Zidane great, or his kind of USP, whatever, the thing he did better than anybody else was, as you put it, a wayward ball dropping in his general direction, his control, what did CESC do better than anyone? Yeah, I think at one point he was the best passer in the Premier League, and I also just liked the fact he was so forward-thinking. I think that's what made him different to the other Spanish midfielder's at the time. Obviously, he grew up a little bit in Barcelona's academy, but him from 16 onwards was at Arsenal, or in fact, even earlier than that, and I think it just made him, you know, he probably gave the ball away more than his Spanish contemporaries in those, you know, really successful tournament winning sides, but I think he offered a drive and a directness and a purposefulness that I think sometimes was otherwise lacking from Spain. Pretty such a Charlie's take on Fabregas' is that he was Batman for a team that didn't win anything. Yeah. Or one FA Cup. And he was robbing for the teams that did, Spain's, and indeed, your Barcelona's, when he made that, what was supposedly the dream move back, we'll get into all of that, but there is that vague sense, I think, perhaps, with Fabregas, the greatest he was that there was maybe something even better. However, he certainly embarked on something pretty great right now as a manager. We'll get into all of that. I have got a quiz question for you, though. Fabregas related. He is one of only six players from outside the brochures to win the PFA Young Player of the Ward. Oh, it's right, to win the PFA Young Player of the Year award. One of only six. Can you name the other five? Five players, apart from Sasca outside the brochures to win the PFA Young Player of the Year award? We'll have the answer at the end, but any names coming to you already? Yeah, I think there's Cristiano. Yeah, that's the obvious one, I think, isn't it? But it'll have to have a think after that. Cristiano's on the list. Given that 23 is the cutoff, isn't it? Yeah. Ed and Hassart? We've got two already. Probably best stop there. We've got three more to find. We'll have the answers at the end. I can reveal, though, that one is from France, one is from Germany, and one is from Australia. Give away there, perhaps. Anyway, before we go any further, let's open up the Almanac. It's the 28th of September. What is this week in football history, brought us? Let's say on 28th of September 2004, Wayne Rooney made his debut appearance for Manchester United following his move from Everton, and I think it's one of the all-time great debuts now. It was against Fenerbahce in the Champions League, Waza choosing this occasion to score his first ever senior atric, the third of which was a sumptuous free kick, becoming in the process the youngest player ever to score a hatric in the Champions League, and setting off on his road to becoming many United's all-time top scorer. It's Rooney. It's inevitable. Some things are just meant to be. Wayne Rooney has saved his first senior atric for his Manchester United debut in the Champions League. There is tomorrow morning's front page face. Never mind the back page. What a spike. So confident. I think we all feel he might do it. He just might do it, but to step up and do that, Patrick, on your debut in the Champions League is absolutely top class. It really is. Don't keep it absolutely. No chance. Not even anywhere near it. On September 29th 2007, there was the top scoring Premier League game ever. Remember this sports with seven rating four? 11 goals. It's a record that still stands at the time of recording. A game that also featured a hatric. Anyone remember who buy? Ben Johnny. Ben Johnny? Yeah. It was Ben Johnny Liam. It's ready to have the goal. But it's not in the Champions League. The Johnson has been this possessed. This has been Johnny. On a hatric. Ben Johnny. His first hatric in English football. And fortunately, four two. Do you remember what the other famous story about Ben Johnny? Well, one of the other famous story about Ben Johnny, who almost blew a move from Portsmouth to Manchester City when he supposedly fell asleep in the airport lounge and missed two consecutive flights. However, some days later he did eventually make the transfer. October 1st, 1996 saw Asen Venger, officially take charge of Arsenal after being released by Nagoya Grampus 8, Asen Hu. As the headline said at the time. Remember it. Yeah. So what was the reaction in the training ground agent? Yeah. Remember it well. Well, he'd been announced much earlier. So there was a sort of holding period, which was a little bit odd because I think Patrick Yere came during that time and Remi Guard as well. So there was a couple of signings arrived before him. So there was a bit of a build up to the arrival. And yeah, I remember it very clearly. And I remember the, you know, the players slight bemusement really at how different everything was right from the get go. That first warm up where you're doing Pilates and plyometric stuff. And it's like what's going on here. But, but it kind of worked. What did you do that first day? Did you kind of wander in shake everyone's hands and do hulu? Yeah, exactly that. And then we all sat around the back of the change rooms at London Colony on benches. It was quite a not very solubris environment. And yeah, he sort of stood at the front and sort of introduced himself and told us about him and what his vision was. And yeah, I'd like at the end of it. It was, you know, there's no clap or anything like that. It was like, right, let's go on with it. And yeah, I think a few of the lads were like, you know, it's probably taking a Mickey out of the way spoke and, you know, maybe he's look as well because, you know, he didn't look like your average football manager at the time, did he? So, yeah, it was, yeah, it was interesting day. That one. Venger has been in Japan. Doesn't know anything about English football and the demands of our game. It's Rolex Ferguson. Famously pronounced. How long did you give him, Adrian? Since silly. What do you mean? I don't know when he came in. You must be used as players to seeing managers come in and you think, yeah, well, we had George Graham. Well, we had George Graham, haven't we? So that was a long time. Really? Not so much. Yeah, no, no, I didn't think so. And there was that one point. And it was a horrible moment where there was this made up story going around that about him that was front page news. And at that point, you thought, well, this is it. It's not going to last very long at all. But thankfully, that was just nonsense. And yeah, it worked out fine. I knew after about a month seeing the players training and how much they come on. Because I trained a bit with the first team, first two or three weeks. And then I had a bit of time out. And when I saw them maybe five, six weeks in, I was like, yeah, this guy knows what he's doing. They were sharper. They were fitter. They were stronger. They were getting better straight away. All right. Well, he is a man who has a great deal to do with today's subject. Says Fabregas. So let's get into that. I made my mind up that I really wanted to go there. Because I would have been training with the first team. You know, Arsene Banger is one of the best coaches. You know, when it comes down to believing the young talents two months later, I was making my debut. I'm not sure, but Fabregas, the youngest scorer in the famous history of Arsenal football club. Fabregas joins it. Worth a shot, Julie. In the minor nights. As a lead, in the minor nights. The drug and it's Fabregas. Watch it in to the heart, bro. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. So we're training with class. You can suppress it for a time. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. I'm going to be the last one. 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Now, 17, he's already dominating midfields in the Premier League, and they're singing, he's only 17, he's better than Roy Keen. Well, and the thing that stood out to me about the incredibly young Fabregas was that he was just already the smartest guy on the pitch. And it was his brain that was his superpower as technically exceptional as he was. It was the fact that he was able to generate these pictures so much much more quickly than everyone else. And I think there was an interview that James Horncastle did with him in the athletic recently where he was talking about how he, because he wasn't the fastest, because he wasn't the most athletically gifted, he always needed to know exactly what he was going to do with the ball before it got to him. And he's not the only footballer that's ever done that, but he's one of the best I've seen certainly in the Premier League at practicing that every minute of every game. His balls at 17, though, I mean, in every sense. As a teenager, lobbing buffet at the most respected figure in our game. Just extraordinary. Well, I've got to say, I wasn't expecting the first pizza reference to be in the context of Gerard Piquet, Leo Messing, James. True enough. But yeah, I mean, it just does speak to a young man with an enormous amount of confidence and personality. 0405 ends with the FA Cup, which would be the only major honor he won with Arsenal. But it also saw that season, the club feel that, yeah, we've got a player good enough to let Pat Vierre go to Juventus. And the big name's typical to go at this point, what we're stadium building and all that kind of thing, Adrian. It's not that much like later that Jerry Henri makes his way to Barcelona, which must have made Sess think. Is it from that point that this notion of when will Fabregas make his return to Catalonia because they've started building? Yeah, look, I think that in an ideal world, that Sess Fabregas would have gone to Barcelona much later in his career that he would have liked to have stayed at Arsenal for a little bit longer. But the truth was that the team was not the team that he came into. He came into a glorious team, a team full of winners, brilliant players and individuals. And that team broke up understandably around that time and it was the stadium move, of course. And then the funds were just not there anymore. Arsenal were having to shop in a different pool. And the quality of the team declined. And there were some good seasons and some good moments. But ultimately the team wasn't a special team anymore. He was a special player within a good team. And you feel good about it at first. You probably feel that's why he was named captain at the age of 21 because it would not that many stand out candidates at the time. But ultimately, as time goes on and you get into further into your 20s, you think, well, I've got to win something here. Am I actually going to win anything with this team? And the ultimate truth, the hard truth was no. And that's why he went. And yeah, it was the right decision for him and for his career, wasn't it, in terms of getting silverware. But I think there'll be a little bit of regret there. I think it was a slightly reluctant one. Yeah, I mean, I think in fairness, Arsenal had two good goals at winning the league when Fabra Gus was there in a key player. There was a 2007-8 season when they looked very good and they kind of unravelled a nut famous game where Birmingham Eduardo broke his leg and William Gallace threw a wobbly. And I think that was after that, that Fabra Gus came captain. It became captain, wasn't it? And then there was two years later where I think Arsenal were actually top in late March. So that was, again, it kind of remembered it through an Arsenal player suffering a broken leg. But that was the season when they won away at Stoke. And I think it was the only time they won away at Stoke. Certainly for a long time on that day when Ramsey got injured. And I think that had a good chance to win it at that point as well. And maybe one thing we should mention about Fabra Gus was that his spell Arsenal was compromised by injuries. He had a lot of muscle injuries at that point. I think there was one season he played 38 games, but otherwise, you know, Arsenal almost thanked for if he played 25 games in a league season. So I think that did compromise it. And he clearly got frustrated by the end. And I mean, I don't know how on public record this is. But I think a lot of people Arsenal were quite unimpressed with his attitudes in the latter days at the club. He basically forced to move. It was almost becoming an annual kind of soap opera whether he would make the move. I remember it was fast in 2010 when Spain won the World Cup. And I think was it Pepo Reyna was putting a Barcelona shirt on him and that proved very unpopular. And the following season, you know, Arsenal had had a bit of a situation because Fabra Gus was the captain and he was the symbol of the club, but at that point, he did want to move. And yeah, I mean, you asked at the top agent, you know, asked Adrian, how much of an Arsenal legend is he? The fact that he only won one FA Cup, and that was on penalties after, I mean, I asked him a terrible in that 2005 file. A terrible game. It wasn't a classic example of Engers Arsenal. As good as he was and we're still speaking about him, what 15 years after he left as a really good Arsenal player. But he played in between the great Arsenal periods. He won't be remembered. I don't think like Vierre or Erdogard, for example, because they've captained Arsenal to the league title. And of course, it's not just about honours, but I think if people are building their all-time Arsenal 11, he'll be there. But yeah, the lack of success in terms of trophies that I think does hamper him a bit in that discussion. On that attitude, I think that he stays true. I do think that behind the scenes he became, did he change a little bit? And I think the frustration got the better of him. And he wasn't the lovely guy, maybe, that he was previously, because he was just wound up by failing to win stuff. So in that sense, it was the only decision he could make it was to leave, because he needed that himself. Monkey, you were making the point that if people think of their all-time Arsenal 11 or the legends of the game that maybe he wouldn't be associated with that, producer Charlie with this, because he was between the great generations, producer Charlie's comment that he was Batman for that Arsenal team, but Robin for Barcelona and Spain. How much does that hold up? Let's get on to what he did in Spain and with the Spanish next. This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James P.S., Oligate, and the very best football writers around. So, Famerick has debuted for Spain in 2006, becoming, as was his won't, the youngest player capped for his nation for 70 years. And through that period that follow, who's Spain had unprecedented success in 2008, winning the Euros, their first trophy in 44 years, two years later winning the World Cup, winning the subsequent Euros in 2012 with Fabregas as force 9, as you mentioned. But when you think of that team, particularly the first two competitions, I don't know that you think of Fabregas. Do you think of Javi and Yester Busquets, etc. Do you think of SESC? No, and that's the thing. And that's where I think he's underrated. So, 2008, he's a substitute, he's a bit of an outsider, but he always comes on and makes a difference. So, he scores as a substitute in the opener, he scores a winning penalty against Italy in the court finals, which is a really big deal for Spain to get past Italy. And then in the semi-finals, David Vier, who's probably been Spain's best player in the tournament, goes off injured in Spain after reformer and Fabregas comes in. And he gets two assists in that semi-final and keeps his place for the final. And actually, Spain looked like a more cohesive team when they're only playing one of Vier and Torres. So, a great player isn't actually get on quite well, but just in terms of the balance of the team, I think they're better when Fabregas comes into it. 2010, I don't think he starts the game in the tournament, but again, he's quite decisive, including in the final, where he gets the assists. And again, this is quite a pattern for Spain that they hold the ball for 60-70 minutes, and it's often when they brought on players like Fabregas or Dorente or Hazus Navas makes a really big impact in the final. That's when they get the drive and the breakthrough. And in 2012, as I mentioned earlier, he starts the tournament in the team and ends the tournament in the team. In between those two matches, he's usually a substitute again. But like I said, in the final, there's a really key player going in behind he's involved in the opener. And so, actually, the core players that we think of as being, you know, the backbone of that Spain team. Actually, a few of them missed the tournament. So, Busquets wasn't around for year 2008. Javi Lancers was only a substitute for 2008. Torres gets, you know, Torres is not fit by 2010 and barely contributes. And isn't that his best in 2012? V and Puyall missed 2012. So, actually, it's only really Javi in Yester. I guess Ramon Cassius, who play a really big part in all three successes. And Fabregas, I think you can add to that. And David Silver's one who drops out of the team in 2010 and is quite unhappy about that. So, even, you know, Fabregas was almost like the Joker. He was like, you know, a slight wild card that you play and he offers something different and he's he's Spanish. But he's also got this different side to him because he's a Premier League player because he's played an Arsenal under Venga who gives his players so much freedom compared to what the Barcelona players are like. And I think he was a really important, a really important part of that Spanish generation. It's broken for Fabregas. Now it's in Yester. This is it. That's the goal. Spain has slowly won the record. Yeah, completely agree with that assessment. And it goes to show that you don't have to be a starter. You don't have to be that guy that's remembered in that famous starting 11 to make the difference. You made the difference in a lot of big matches. Come off the bench. The Spain team just needed a bit of thrust every now and again, whether that was like a little bit of a movement into the box, someone taking up an unusual position, just someone making a run. That's what he provided for them. And which is really different to what he provided for Chelsea in that deeper role, what he provided for Arsenal as more of an orthodox box-to-box midfielder. He did pop up a lot, but from deep. He did pop up a lot about to go and make the difference in time matches. So yeah, I think your Fabregas' involvement in Spain's glory years is underrated for sure. Because I'm not saying they wouldn't have won it without him, but or won those trophies. But he definitely played a big part in it. What about Barcelona then? In 2011, he finally got his move back to his boyhood club. And it felt like the dream move Barcelona had just won three straight La Liga titles, and two Champions League in three years under Pep Guardiola. Liam, would you say that this move turned out the way that he had hoped? No, I think he was quite frustrated figure by the end. And I don't think he felt that he was as trusted or as appreciated as maybe he felt he should be at his boyhood club. And I think there was a certain element of expectations going in. Because I think Barcelona brought him back with a view to oh, maybe he can be the long-term successor to Chavvy or at the very least he could be the long-term successor to Iniesta. He could maybe be one of those two roles. In reality, he was neither of those players in part because of what we've discussed with really the more north-south elements to his game, the Premier League elements to his game. And he ended up being a guy who was used further forward which meant that he was always sometimes in tandem with Messi and it's clear that they really got on not just personally, but there was football chemistry between them when they played. But positionally they would go into some of the same spaces. And if you're standing in some of the spaces Messi wants to move into, you're not going to be on the pitch for very long. So I think that was part of it as well. And ultimately he, I think he left Spain a bit disillusioned and wanting to go somewhere where he could feel really central to a team again. And he certainly got that at Chelsea. Yeah, I really liked the first few weeks when he went to Barcelona the first few weeks when he went to Barcelona it looked really good. And there was a period where Guadalupe was playing basically a back three, a midfield diamond and a front three. And Fabregas and Messi were kind of rotating between the number nine and number 10 positions. And they just, I mean, they'd obviously played together when they were kind of young teenagers. But they just picked out where they left off the record opponents. And I do think they needed that sometimes because everyone was parking the bus against them. Sometimes they were a bit predictable and slow. I think it was in the bigger games where, you know, particularly later in the season where I think he was actually taking up a lot of the same spaces in the ester as well. They were starting to play in the ester from the left. He was coming inside. That was kind of Fabregas' zone. And I remember Guadalupe was used to having complete control over all of his players. And Fabregas had played for what, seven, eight years under Venga, who was a bit more like, yeah, go out and do your thing. And I don't think Guadalupe quite appreciated that in the way that, for example, Del Bosque did, with Spain. Del Bosque was a bit more laissez faire. But yeah, it didn't really work out. It was quite underwhelming. You know, for a move that had been it was quite disappointing. And Guadalupe only stuck around for one season after Fabregas joined. I think in hindsight, he probably feels he should have left that summer in 2011 on a high. And then there's the period under the late Tito Villanueva, which was quite, you know, Villanueva misses some of the season because he's, you know, it's the start of his illness and then the next season, Drodon Martino comes in and it's all a bit confused. There's no real grand plan with Barcelona. And then of course, Fabregas leaves in 2014. And that's when Lewis and Ricky comes in and they win the Champions League. So to a certain extent, it's the same point as what I said about Arsenal. He's there between two great Barcelona sides. And in fact, I don't think that's all his fault. He was a slightly different player. And I think, you know, when you've got Javi and you've got any Eston, you've got Messi as well, it was just a little bit hard to fit him in. But he eventually decides that Barcelona is not going to be for him. And I think I'm right. I'm saying he was actually quite up for moving to Arsenal at that stage. And actually Arsenal at this point have got a Cazola. They've got Erzel. And I don't think Venga was particularly keen to get over the way that Fabregas had acted towards the end of his time there. And so of course, instead he moves to Chelsea. Well, that interim Barcelona team did manage to win a La Liga title, a Copa del Rey, a club World Cup, a UEFA Super Cup and two Spanish Supercups in his three years in the Capitol. But as it was mentioned, he was growing frustrated in 2013. He was already in talks with Manchester United about joining David Moises side. That didn't work out the following year. He asked the club to release him. They do Arsenal do have a buyback clause, which they decide not to action. And he joins Joe Zimmery News. Chelsea, the little horses in the previous season's Premier League title run. Chelsea up next. 30 million pounds, Chelsea splashed out on Cez Fabregas in June 2014. Matt Reid says he destroyed any legacy he would have had at Arsenal by downing tools for a past move. But we forgave him for that as it was his boyhood club. But then to move to Chelsea dead to us. Craig, Adrian, I don't know if that's your feeling as an Arsenal fan and equally Liam. Was there any resistance among Chelsea fans at having such an Arsenal related figure joining your side? I think there was maybe pockets of reticence. You know, you'll always get people within a fan base who are unwilling to overlook past associations. But I think in the main there was just more excitement. Was there a steward who got fired for shouting, you're Arsenal, you're a snake. There was, but I think that was later. That was later. That was quite a lot later. I think it was actually in the horrific 2015-16 season where everything was going wrong. He was cast as one of the rats. We've got rid of Marinho. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he was regarded as a snake at Arsenal. So it's an interrupt. Like he was. Like the fans did turn on him, definitely. Because of that attitude we spoke about. Because they just felt like he did down tools to get that move. And I think when the time came up for the option to go back because all there was a big player and the fans loved him. And obviously you had Aaron Ramsay. He's had a brilliant season. He started to look like a, you know, at that time. He was looking like a world-class centering field. It never quite panned out for him. But with him, those two and Erzel, yeah, he just felt like, do we need the aggravation? And maybe that attitude that we touched on earlier, where we got a little bit sulky, that came back to bite him there. And that's why Arsenal sort of turned their back on him. But, you know, looking at what he did at Chelsea, again, it kind of worked out right. A little bit. Four and a half years at the club, he won the Premier League twice and the League Cup, the FA Cup and the Europa League. Anything to stand out, Liam, about his debut at Turfmore for Chelsea? One, maybe slightly clippable moment that has been replayed a lot. That pass for Andre Scherler was, well, absolutely sublime. But also, I think, a perfect indicator of what was to come from Fabricass's time at Chelsea. Not that he was necessarily playing that type of pass in every game, but just that vision. If you wanted anything to sum up what he would bring to Chelsea. And he hadn't even played a game when Merinio was striking a very kind of bullish even for him tone in that preseason. Because I think he felt that Chelsea had added the mid-missing pieces in Diego Costa and Fabricass in particular and getting T-Bok or Toa back. And he said specifically about Fabricass and Costa that they'd added a new dimension to his Chelsea team. And I think that assist for Scherler was as effective as anything at immediately hammering home. Exactly the dimension that he'd added. Because there was no one else in that Chelsea squad that could have maybe even seen that pass, let alone played it. And as I'm trying to, away through, to the van of itch again, to try and carve out a chance for Fabricass. It's brilliant play. It's Scherler's goal. It's a truly wonderful goal for Chelsea. And having been one-neil down, even this early, can you say, is this the response of future champions? Edden Hazard has done subsequent interviews where he's referred to Fabricass as the master. And he also did a thing with France football, where he had to take bits of players that he admired. And he took game vision from Fabricass. He said, he's got the best game vision of anyone I've played with. He said, if I had his game vision, I'd be up here, significantly taller than Mr Hazard's head. Which part would you take if you were doing a reverse of that? Which part would you take from Edden Hazard for your ideal plan? You know, an underrated part of Edden Hazard is his backside. Well, I was going to say that's quite a race of the thing. Well, it's not necessarily cited in these types of... Oh, take one bit from each... You might take his... Yeah, you might take his eye or his in-step or something. Yeah, his backside, I think, did a lot of heavy lifting in the Premier League. Yes, it did. Chelsea, that season, with Yoga Coster and Cess Fabricass, were Premier League leaders from the first till the last date of the season? That'd never been number four. How much of that was Fabricass? I think it's almost a season of two halves for Chelsea. They were fantastic before Christmas. I mean, played brilliant, brilliant football, probably better football than most people would think of when they think of Marino's Chelsea. And that was when Fabricass was largely playing deeper alongside Mattich. So it's quite a forward-thinking team. Usually got Oscar as the number 10 in that. And Fabricass is playing some great passes from deep. After Christmas, they slow down a bit and Marino reformed it. And he usually uses Ramirez alongside Mattich. And Fabricass is more of the number 10. And kind of almost count intuitively. I think by playing higher, he's actually less creative. He gets on the ball a little bit less. So it's a bit of a shame that they didn't sustain the form before Christmas until the end of the season. But yeah, he's, I mean, they were much better at him than the previous year. And he's got a great relationship with Costers, as we mentioned earlier. So yeah, he's a really big part of that. And he's got a great relationship with Costers, as we mentioned earlier. So yeah, he's a really big part of it. And yeah, particularly before Christmas. And I remember being at the first game that they lost, which was away in Newcastle in I think early December. But going into that game, there had been some chat like maybe Chelsea could go and beaten this season. Which is always, you know, it's often on the cards, it's often discussed. But I think people really did think that that could happen that season. Because it wasn't a particularly strong Premier League I don't think in that year. And Chelsea looked really, really good team. And in a way, he came in for the Lampard. I don't think that was the first season. I think Lampard had just gone to City as well. So feeling that void, particularly when he's playing a little bit further up maybe, was perfect for Chelsea. So yeah, look, that was a good team. Very good team. Well, what was quite interesting as well was that he did directly nominally replace Lampard in the team. But Lampard himself was someone who had been a much more forward thinking midfielder, who in his last years at Chelsea had become part of a double pivot as his maybe up and down athleticism had waned slightly. And that's what made the Fabricass signing interesting in another sense as well. Because he'd always been this technical creative eight slash ten. And Chelsea were asking him, at least initially, as Michael says, to be more of a six, next to Mattich, to be the deep line creator they'd previously tried to get Luca Modrich to play that role and famously fail before he went around Madrid. So it was kind of asking Fabricass to recast himself in English football. And I think he did an exceptional job of that. And having Mattich next to him really helped because Mattich was able to get through a lot of the defensive work. Oscar was also a really defensively diligent, industrious number ten. So he had protection. But Chelsea came alive that season, whenever the ball was at Fabricass's feet really, he was the guy that made the team tick. So the following season is the Marigno departure and then Antonio Conte arrives and another league title comes with him, Michael. Yeah, I really enjoyed that relationship between content Fabricass because at the start the season Conte is just not at all convinced. He wants two really solid players in front of the back four and Fabricass barely plays. First 15 games of the season or so. And it's clear that Conte almost just gets worn down by how good Fabricass is. He's just so brilliant on the ball that he just has to find a role for him and the only role that he can find because Chelsea basically win the league after Conte switches to 343 and he can't play in the attacking section because he would be an inside left. And that's where Hazard is. So he has to play really alongside Kante in the deep and midfield roles, which makes Chelsea a little bit more open than Conte would want. But actually he plays some really key passes in that season. You know, provides some really big contributions. And I think you do get that. Sometimes you do just get a player. I mean, it's a bit like Zadana Juventus. He completely changes. And Chelsea's philosophy. And Chelsea wants to be really strict with the 442. And then Zadana is so talented. He has to find a place for him. There's a number 10. It's almost like to a lesser extent Fabricass does the same Conte. And yeah, I think Conte probably wanted him gone to be honest. I think Oscar leaves midway through that season. I wouldn't be surprised if Conte was kind of intending to move Fabricass on. But he's so good. You've got to get him in the team somehow. I think early in that season, Conte did actually tell Fabricass maybe you should go somewhere else. Or he was at least very honest with him that you're not going to play very much with me, with the style of team that I'm building. Certainly once he'd switched to that 343 because Matich Kante was the pairing that he was envisioning. And that pairing did start a lot of games. But Fabricass, as Michael says, it made an impact pretty much every single time that he came off the bench. And he led that Chelsea squad in assists, despite the fact that half of his appearances in the Premier League that season were as a substitute. And I think the most memorable moment was actually the game that Chelsea won during that 13-game winning streak against Manchester City at the Etihad, where they won 3-1, having trailed 1-0 and been dominated for an hour. Still, one of the best games I've ever covered live because both teams were actually really, really good. And Fabricass changed the game. He came off the bench when Chelsea needed a goal and hit one of those quarterback style passes for Diego Costa to equalise and the whole momentum shifted. And that was the role that he had in that team. And I think what was impressive was that he didn't sulk when Kante said that to him early in the season. He kind of knuckled down and proved him wrong in the long run. What happened after that, though? With Fabricass at Chelsea. Yeah, with what it's just Sally, and things start to wind down pretty quickly for him there. Is that right? Yeah, so I think that's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. That's the only way that I can do it. Things start to wind down pretty quickly for him there. Is that right? Yeah, so I think in Conte's second season, Fabricass' influence waned a little bit. There were signs as well that athletically, he was already a more limited figure in his Chelsea stint than he had been at Arsenal. You can't forget just how many minutes Fabricass played from such an early age. And I think the fact that he was still able to be so impactful as testament to his brain and his technique more than his body really. But it was pretty obvious by the time Sarri came in that he was coming to an end and then Chelsea signed Joe Genio. They already had coverage, of course, Conte was still there. So the midfield was being actively remodeled for a post Fabricass era. And I think at that point, he realized as much and didn't want to stick around and ended up going to Monika. Yeah, I mean, Liam says he played a lot of football throughout his teenage years and his 20s. And his Spain career is pretty much done by 29. Like after Euro 2016, which is kind of the second failure, they got knocked out of the group stage in 2014. 2016, they're beaten by, I think, a relatively limited. Italy team who brilliantly coached actually by Antonio Conte. And that's it for Fabricass. And it does end. It's a funny one because obviously we've spoken about what a great football brain he is and he wasn't quick and he didn't necessarily have that mobility. And yet at the same time, he still does look quite knackered. It's not like he's a kind of Luca Modrich figure who plays on into this 40 because he's never dependent on face. He actually looked really quite sluggish. And yeah, it's not unusual. You know, I'm sure we're going to speak about him being a coach. But in a way, it's a bit like Guardiola. I mean, Guardiola was that kind of figure who didn't at all depend on physicality. But at the top level was really done by the age of 30 and then focuses on becoming a coach. And that's basically what Fabricass does as well. Well, the move to Monaco with Tyrion Reed came in 2019. In 2022, he's surprised. Most people, I think, by joining his second tier team in Italy, a team in such a rudimentary state that apparently he had to get changed in a bar before training. That kind of side, which all seemed pretty strange. The club was combo, but it turned out there was a very good reason for it. You're listening to the totally football show with James Richards and now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and Glorious Technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show. So if there was a sense that as a player, Cessk wasn't always quite in the right place at the right time between great sides. As a manager, looks like it's all really come together well. He's joined Cuomo in 2022. They're on their rise up through the divisions in Italy. At that point, they were in the second tier. He plays for a season and then takes over as the youth, the primavera manager. But within a couple of months, it's promoted to first-team manager. A role that, for reasons of UEFA badges, he ends up filling alongside the Welshman and former Wales assistant Ocean Robbers. In 2024, within a season, that season, effectively, they get promotion to Serie A. They then keep Cuomo up for the first time in 30 years that they managed to do that. And now, 2026, reminded that he joined in 2022 when they were in Serie B. They are in the Champions League and he is the reigning Serie A manager of the year. For all his exploits as a player, this is comparable what he's doing on the bench. Yeah, and I think it's interesting. I mean, you mentioned the lack of positionals in James as a player. And that's the thing that I find really interesting, because I remember being at Chelsea game. I think it was 2014-15 and it's one of those games where he's playing alongside Mattich. It was at Stanford, Richard Khan, member who was against. But as the opposition, we're going to kick off to start the match. I just remember Mattich screaming at Fabregas to just drop alongside him, because Fabregas is at 10 or 15 yards out of the pitch. I remember thinking, this is the kick off and he's already kind of out of position and one of his teammates is screaming at him. He'd become a top-level manager at a time when I think management, you know, these days is almost like positional sense. Getting players in position is the main thing. It is a bit of a surprise, despite the fact that he's got such a good football brain in other aspects. I think he's got a really good coaching team there. I think he's one of these. The other coaches do a lot of the coaching work on the training ground. Fabregas certainly is involved in that. But I think he knows there may be limitations in his coaching at this young age. I think he has, like you say, James, he's picked the right club. And I think sometimes these days, it's quite difficult to judge managers and how good they are when that manager's at a good club, a well-run club that is coming up through the leagues. A bit like at Brighton. I don't know if Graham Potter did a good job. I don't know if he did a good job or if they just happened to join the right club that is up really mobile and they're kind of along for the ride. I think he's very promising. But I think the amount of money being invested in Como, the scouting network, they've got there. I mean, the caliber of players they had when they were first in Syria was way beyond what a newly promoted team would usually count on. So yeah, he certainly wanted to watch. But I think at the moment, until we see him with a different club, it's probably quite difficult to judge quite how good a coach he is. Binching to see when we will see him with another club. He's commented about his unique situation at Como, having gone there. He was introduced to the club by Darren Dean, the sum of David Dean, who was, of course, helping to run Arsenal in his time as a player there. He owns, has a minority share in the club, is involved apparently in all the club's decision-making, particularly regarding player signings. And Fabregas says that I know, I know that what I have here probably I will never have anywhere else because wherever I go after, I will be a head coach here. It is much more than that. This week, there's been a lot of talk about a clause in his Como contract. Having turned down a move to Inter a year and a half ago to stay at Como, that there is a clause in his contract that would enable him to walk away. But only to a couple of very specific clubs, Liam. Clubs in London and Catalonia. Right. Did this clause include Chelsea or is it just? It did, apparently. But I've seen it mentioned as a Chelsea clause in Chelsea-related publications and an Arsenal clause. It's an ISB holder clause. It's easy. I don't know. I've not read the clause, and I suspect most people haven't. It's being talked up. And it's going to be a while, I mean, at least according to the length of their contracts before Arterta or Javier Lanzo. Or indeed, Hansi Flick is vacating those positions. But how appetising and prospect would that be? Michael's jury is very much out on CESC. What would CESC Fabregas bring in terms of his management? I mean, I think from a Chelsea perspective, he's someone that would have a lot of appeal. And before they went for Javier Lanzo, I was actually thinking that he might be the smartest wafer blue coat to go because not only did they need a young... Well, not necessarily a young. There's a lot of youth that's down for a bridge. They needed a rising coach with fresh ideas. But they also needed, at that time, it felt like they needed someone who had a bit more cache with the fans. Now, as it's turned out, I think there's been enough intrigue about CESC Fabregas Lanzo, his achievements at Lavercose and his status in the game that hasn't been as much of an issue with him coming in to Chelsea. But Fabregas would have come in with the love of that fan base. They still sing his name. Even though he was there for five years, not as long as he was an Arsenal, the success is that he was a part of the way that the relationship that I think he built with the fans, the 2015-16 season aside, it endures. That affection is absolutely there and he would come in with a really, really high approval rating. But equally, it's easy to see why he's not in a rush because of everything you've said about his situation at coma and what he enjoys. You wouldn't be in a hurry to sacrifice that. And I think, as Michael said, a big part of the success of coaching is picking the right jobs at the right time. You don't always get the luxury to do it, now he has the luxury of going at his pace and assessing his options, and that's clearly what he's doing. Michael loads of factors in coma's rise no doubt. But in terms of sesks football, what makes it successful? What makes it stand out? I think they play quite slick passing football. They build up very well from the back. I think probably the most distinctive feature of Fabregas' coma team is the way they take goal kicks. They've had various different routines on this, but at its most extreme, they have this bizarre approach where the two centerbacks almost stand on the corners of the box. The other eight outfields are almost on the halfway line, and then the goalkeeper and the two centerbacks play almost to three versus two, work the ball forward, and then one of the centerbacks has got back 40 yards to drive forward on the ball. He's certainly doing some interesting things. I think in general, it's quite fluid in midfield. I think they usually use two holding midfielders, but they're not really holding midfielders. They rotate positions and venture forward a lot, which is in keeping with how we speak about Fabregas, when he used to play that deep position. It's obviously a very multinational side. I don't think they had an Italian play last season at all. I think I'm right in saying. Fabregas speaks to the players in English, which I find quite interesting. I'm not sure how good his Italian is, but he speaks Spanish and French, and Catalan as well. A little bit like Artetta, who's fantastic linguistically. He's clearly able to communicate with players more over the world. He's an interesting manager. I probably sounded a bit too cynical earlier when I said, I don't know how good a coach is. I've certainly enjoyed watching his teams, but I just think the coma project, I mean, they're owned by two of the richest people in the world and the richest owners in Syria. I think their progression is primarily because of the players that they've got in, but they're certainly doing some interesting things in the tactics as well. Of course, Adrian, he was managing at the Emirates only this summer in that preseason friendly. Yeah, I was at the game, and I watched him quite intently, really, because he was standing right in front of me, and I mean, he looks apart. It was very cool and dapper and, you know, and what, no, he looks like a modern manager. But what struck me about him in that game, and obviously it's only a preseason friendly, was how communicative he is with the players, like he was on them, like really on them, in terms of raising the standards, because coma played well in the game. They played some really good stuff, that those gold kicks really stood out. But he was not happy. He was seeking a higher standard, in almost everything that they were doing in the game. And to my eyes, they were playing really well. So that really struck me that he's a guy that's not just going to settle for being okay or being good. He wants to really push the boundary. So, yeah, I was, obviously, it's only watching someone's body language in the way that they coach, but I was quite impressed with how active he was in the technical area, and I was impressed with the football that they played. So, yeah, I think Arsenal fans it. Obviously, there's a great hope that Michael Arthetta will be there for the long, long term, creating another dynasty like Arsenal Venga did. But if you took Canvas opinion at the moment, despite the way he left Arsenal, if that job ever became available, I think he would be favorite. Well, managerially speaking, he's passed every test so far, achieving promotion from the second division, getting Cuomo into the Champions League in such a short space of time then. And then this season, I mean, so far at least, doing brilliantly not just in that competition, but also in Syria as well. So, look forward to seeing what next from the wonderful Cess Fabregas. That's it, though, for today's show. We should give you the answer to our quiz question. You'll recall we mentioned the PFA Young Player of the Year Award, which in its 53-year history has only been won by six players from outside the British Isles. Cess is one. We named two others in Christiana Ronaldo. And in Hazard, that left three. Well, you mentioned it in Australia, and that would be Harry Kule, wouldn't it? Correct, Liam. Very good. Then there's the Frenchman and the German. Go on, Michael. Michael's the quiz. He's the quizmer. I'm fairly sure the German is Leverissane. The Frenchman, I... It feels like it should be the area, but he was maybe a bit too old. So, I think it's a Nelker. You'd be very right, Michael. Adrian, you should have got that. Yeah. I think that was about to say it, yeah, but, you know. Well, many thanks to all three of you for being with us today. Thanks as well to producers Charlie and Jesse. If you fancy other retro listens, we've got loads of other totally extras out there already and they'll be plenty of fresh new totally football shows up soon as well. So, you'll be with us again before too long for now. From all of us here, it's goodbye. You've been listening to the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great podcasts, just like this one, including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for the Athletic on Apple Spotify and all the usual places. We're also at the Totally Football Show on Insta and at the Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production. The Athletic FC.