The Post-Tournament Reckoning: Power, Politics, and Parity in North American Soccer

Hello everybody and welcome to the Total Soccer Show. My name is Taylor Rockwell, I am doing the introductions which means Ryan Bailey is not here, which is standard for a Tuesday show, Joe Lowry is also not here, which is not standard for a Tuesday show, but we do have our old friend, our young old friend, Mr. Jeff Ruder returns, Jeff, how's your World Cup hangover going my friend? Hello Taylor, oh it is so good to be back, it's been, it's weird you go like two and a half a month without hearing that when you're used to every Tuesday, it's like yes I have my alarm clock, but this is what jolts me to life is you saying hello and welcome and I was missing that you didn't you didn't leave me voice notes during the World Cup saying like hello and welcome to day 46 of the group stage or wherever we were so good to be back. Yeah how was the World Cup experience for you with that in mind, it did it all blend together, was it all just one blur, how much were you on the road, how much did you sleep if it all take us through Jeff? Yeah it was it was a blast right and it's just such a privilege to be able to cover that tournament for the Guardian and outlet that I grew up reading World Cup coverage in and to be able to contribute to that when it came back to the United States was just overwhelming at times but overwhelmingly positive the entire time. Lot of travel I mean I was in I was mostly in the west coast and so I would do kind of side quest between US games where I think I'd one stretch where I was LA to Seattle the Vancouver to Seattle to LA in the span of five days, six days so a lot of flights, a lot of points but a lot of fun like just incredible to have this we were talking about this before recorded just like there's something so special about doing this and being really proud of the audience that loves us and respects us right and then all of a sudden you have all of these fair weather people being like hey your audience like they seem like they're on to something so so what do you do and what should I feel about the refereeing against Egypt and all these like other little questions that you don't usually get from the people in your lives who don't usually seem to get soccer so yep that was fun that was a very uniquely fun experience for sure. Did you have a favorite like like like a memory that you think will live with you for a long time in covering the United States at the World Cup? Yeah I mean the the Baligan affair I think is something that I'll never forget right just the whole nature of that and be in line. That's a way to lead Jeff with Baligan. Okay I didn't know we were going there right away let's do it. Look man it's it's so it's so close to it but that still is such a prominent part of this. I think that the the the night that's really going to stick with me the most is actually in Seattle after Australia and yes it's the country roads game the the first one we're at I ended up writing a call in the following morning with a bit of a hangover on the flight to my next city but that whole atmosphere and just feeling like it wasn't just like wow the U.S. was doing really well at soccer but like people loved the fact the U.S. were doing well and even as many people were trying to like you know incredibly pick knit and say like oh the performance wasn't this that the other thing it was just like the crowd was still just like yeah okay we won the group like it's great we're having a great time so there was just kind of that communal atmosphere that I thought Seattle did really well to bring out that was very very special on that day so what what was the like the response from the media and like the people you around when Baligan decision happens when it's overturned because for me from afar my phone like exploded I was at the beach at the time and haven't came back to just so many messages like what happens is this AI is this real has this actually occurred and I thought for sure it was all ridiculous because a red card being overturned in a world cup doesn't happen for you what was your experience of that moment what was the kind of coverage like what was the atmosphere like amongst the press a lot of grumbles I won't be able to repeat on these airwaves but I think that was you it was unprecedented and everyone was kind of scrambling not to like make sense of it I think that there was this like kind of stench around it from the moment the news dropped where it was like okay I think I know the tone with which to be covering this and a lot of us unfortunately we're right we learned that pretty quickly and you know I mean like at that point we're all in line to get into security for US practice so we're all just in a row in a parking lot on pavement on a sunny day and all of a sudden you see like half of us sitting on our bottoms in the parking lot on our laptops under the sun which is not good for laptops trying to crank out this story and look up like okay so why was going to reinstate it like that is like suddenly where I had asked to be never mind the fact that two hours before that training I had had a piece go live on the guardian about what's Pogetina's plan gonna be without Baligan and suddenly we have to take that thing down and change it to so now what and use like the Belgium notes that I'd spend so long curating and had seen them three times in the tournament so yeah it was it was just this sort of like why is this happening this shouldn't be happening oh that's why it happened well that's not right okay well every single detail of this thing is a story you have Rudy Garcia saying that they're playing for the honor of football and it's just like okay well the power of friendship will guide you through this game I have no doubts and it did do you think it has a chance to like truly impact Baligan as a player going forward obviously it's not his choice obviously he is kind of I don't know like caught up in the the rip tide of all of this that happened but like when I see the coverage of infantino and everything that's happened there it is a like the Baligan decision the Baligan read the Baligan moment he has become a moment a like kind of a key moment in the infantino story in the story of this world cup and not a good one and it feels like one that even if it's not his fault people will use to criticize him and like point fingers at him and that will be a thing that kind of attaches to his name unfairly I would point out but yeah I found myself wondering that like is this a thing that will become not quite a problem but a thing he has to get passed kind of an albatross around his neck yeah I think it'll be a thing I would imagine it will be point number one on every like opposition supporters banter notes right is how do we get our own crack at him about calling the president where's the red phone is he going to bail you out this time after you don't get a penalty like I can come up with half a dozen of these up off the hill but the reality is he was as gracious as he was perceived to be when you were like reading the coverage or watching tape of his interviews he was even more gracious in person throughout the entire experience like there was no sort of like oh the microphones off yeah it was a disgrace and I'm really pissed and this is unfair and how could this happen to me there was absolutely no tone of that from either Balagan or Pochettino now his teammates were saying a lot of the injustice stuff right and saying that like they should have never been the call and stuff and that's there that's their that's their position to defend their teammate right but I don't think that there was ever anyone who is really like thank you white house thank you FIFA thank you crack team of lawyers assembled by us soccer whoever we're supposed to thank thank you for you know taking care of us or whatever I think that if anything in hindsight in hindsight certainly but I think even at the time a lot of them were just like okay well witnessing it in person they're they're they were completely thrown off and and they really did struggle to focus after that in training that day and then thereafter and that manifests but I think Balagan was very much a gracious passenger in this whole like freight train right like I don't think that he was really trying to funnel coal into the engine whatsoever I don't think that he was really trying to make this a bigger deal than it already was because it was a massive deal to be fair I don't know how much higher that thing could have scaled but yeah it never really became a sort of thing where he's gonna try to make this part of his like brand like a wrestling heel or something like that or like a petula child right I think that he's he's viewing it much more as this happened to me in spite of how I'd handled myself and I've just got to get through this we do have lots of MLS news to discuss including a new commissioner but we can keep talking USMNT because I have more questions for you because I think it's fascinating that you got to cover them the way you did what was your experience of covering them for a month who are the players that you kind of maybe noted as being instrumental in that team or what were the team dynamics that you were able to observe yeah it was a blast I mean it was my first time really being just embedded into US team any team in international tournaments certainly like this to this extent but even to just be the the US guy right like the athletic as other US guys and their best guys on the beat right I completely understood it when I was there but it was fantastic to be able to join that sort of group who gets to have that experience and and it was nice I mean like there were days where suddenly Puchatino would come out and he'd be in a good mood he'd go around shake hands with everyone in the media and stuff like that you know it just it's nice to start the day you don't look for it it's not going to change your tone in the piece necessarily but it's cool that he's you know kind of considering that the press pack as part of the group that's going through this whole thing together it's it's really clear that West and McKenney has like a really crucial sort of let's let's bring a little levity without losing focus sort of perspective and I think that he's gotten the balance right certainly witnessing that this tournament it would be things like us in a mix zone and all of us with our backs to the media tent behind us as we're you know holding our microphones up in front of Max Arvston or Tim Reem or whoever they put up that day and all of a sudden you will hear a voice kind of bellow from over behind you on the bank where the cameras and the lights are and there's Weston just standing there in glasses and his trading suit and he's just asking like hey are you aware that you have to go to practice in a minute and you should go now right and it's just like a very fun sort of like come on let's keep this thing going this isn't his first rodeo right and I think a Texans I was happy when they find their second rodeo so he was a really good presence in that I thought that Matt Turner comported himself with good boys I think that he was he was I was wondering how that would go a goalkeeper one goalkeeper two and that sort of thing but he really there was never any fuss not that I was expecting one from a guy like Matt Turner but still good to see that your priors are accurate Mark McKenzie I think a lot of that sort of did come out but being really kind of a heart and soul leader and I know that he was literally leading prayers on the field after games a lot but he was also doing this really cool film project by the look of it had a little miniature sort of I don't know if it was a super 8 but he had some sort of film camera that he was recording a lot of stuff so I'm looking forward to seeing whatever was yielded from that and I would also just say like Malik Tillman I think has become a very respected trusted leaned upon player even before his free kicks kept going in in the knockouts but I think that he's someone who his experience in the gold cup I think pretty uniquely puts him in a spot where he is seen as part of this like great up and coming generation of Americans in Europe so like your your politics your mechanics your atoms is your whatever are all going to a fin with him but I think that the players who emerge from the gold cup when you talk about your burr halters or you talk about your freemans right they are going to feel even closer to Tillman for that experience of having gotten to the final in lost in Mexico so like I think he is someone who is going to be central to this project yes because much we too pochotino is coming back to at least start the cycle right but I think that even as successors come and go is pretty clear that Tillman has made himself a beloved figure within the the entirety of the player pool as far as I've observed and since you mentioned it we do have the watch renewal news this week how are you feeling about that one Jeff are you are you excited for him to be returning for the project to continue were you ready for it to go a different direction how say you I'm not surprised I'll start with that I think that there is a point it was probably when Milan hired Rubin Amerim which was something I think took about four days to get to me as I was in my world cup bubble after the official announcement not even like I missed the here we go or anything which makes sense because I'm not on Twitter these days but I think once that job was filled that was kind of the final job in Europe that had been open that looked like a pretty obvious fit for pochotinos reentry into club soccer unless he was willing to go with a slightly more humble drought and go for a smaller club and try to kind of recreate his Southampton project or something and so the choices from his side suddenly become do you take a gap year and now you're even further removed not just from club coaching but any coaching and how does that help your perception probably not too much and also just the intrinsic like will you be bored or would you like to at least make sure that you get this thing on the right foot before you go into the next era and you pass it off to someone else and better said than you found it because keep in mind obviously and you talked about as much as anybody he struggled a lot in those first 18 months up until the World Cup group stage right and so I think that there are a lot of things where it's not like oh finally he's a success if he wins the nation's league and matches Greg Berholter's every other year feet right it's not that but if you can actually start to show that it wasn't just like catching lightning in the bottle for two or three games in one summer and that there's some continuity that can be put into this team like that's a good thing so I think that's worth it and I would imagine that you a soccer recognized that their best candidates weren't available right now either besides pochotino when you look at you I know that at this point it sounds almost banterous to even imply Jesse Marsh but at the end of the day if you look for people who CV is generally the most robust for this job he is still in that conversation when you look at Marazzo and you look at the MLS group for example I mean Jim Curtin just took a job with Austin and won't start it until next year and I don't think that was so that he could see out the rest of this year on an interim basis for the US men's national team right that's for very obvious personal reasons um there's also uh like your Mikey Verrisis your Michael Mitchfitches, you PJ Calla hands those who have been in the program before are all in very good club situations so I don't think uh you know short of doing a hard pivot and bringing in another person who's new to the pool and trying to redo the pool assessment project for the next year I think it makes a lot of sense to stick with the guy if you want it to stay so you anticipating kind of more of the same from what we saw under Putch you know and not much else like do you think he does intensify dual national recruitment do you think he is getting involved in pay to playing youth soccer and youth development and all of those many things that he has been it has been suggested he might get involved in or do you think we might have a kind of situation in which he is largely doing what he's been doing and that's okay because it's poch yeah and the latter would be okay because it's poch and theory but I think that the federation I think he likes some of the joining the conversation of how to make soccer a bigger deal in the United States I think that he's really relish becoming a voice that's listened to more closely than others in that arena and so in that sense I wouldn't be surprised if part of this is hey like if you can keep going he would always he would mention when we're at the world cup in interviews that he would occasionally do dinners with donors of the federation and they would ask questions of various levels of seriousness including but not limited to why has the U.S. not developed it only in omessie have you seen how many people are in this country of a fine question for a donor to ask I suppose but I think that he likes those speaking junkets and so I don't think that he would mind if occasionally he goes and he sits and he he gives updates on what the programs went up to and and that is valuable it should be said like I think that having someone who can be an advocate especially when the federation now suddenly looking for public money in a way that they weren't before right after the tournament JT Batson in his post tournament address you know tells the media that hey basketball courts you know those things aren't free and those costs three to six billion dollars of taxpayer money every year why can't we do that for soccer fields and you can you know react in your own way to give me my five billion dollars now right and I don't think that that was his tone and it certainly wasn't a demand as much as an observation at this stage but if eventually they do start to ask and try to find someone who can get the public behind I think the handsome argentine and the safari outfit is probably a good a good option for that message the handsome argentine and the safari outfit yeah to end on let's bring it close to segment one we'll come back and talk some major league soccer in just a moment with myself and mr. jeff ruder welcome back to the total soccer show jeff ruder we have a new commissioner or soon we'll have a new commissioner the columbus crew scoreboard burned white instead of black the owner's burden from the driven by continental conclave to announce that the LAFC minority owner Larry Berg would be the league's third ever commissioner how big of a of a story is this for you at least like how in terms of your MLS coverage do you feel like this is a seismic event or is it an administrative turnover and then we'll see what happens I just want to say thanks for asking no one has asked me what this means for me that there's a new commissioner major league soccer so this is I mean it's like you cover a lot of things and I think like like there can be stuff that gets artificially inflated as being a huge deal I don't think this is that but then there can be like smaller stuff that I think should be treated as a huge deal I think you do a good job of kind of threading that needle and finding those stories you and so this feels like one that like could be a seismic shift could be a huge deal in terms of what comes next for the league but could also be largely a person like handling administrative tasks and trying to keep the league running and like controversy free as much as possible like I guess what I'm trying to say is it could be a very glamorous story and one with a lot of interesting nuance and subtlety it could also be one that's a big story that is largely straightforward and doesn't have a ton of nuance to it I think that it it isn't just that it's a big story for all those reasons and I do agree with that I think that there is something that's generally exciting about what is the direction of a new commissioner I think it is something where in other American sports leagues it is a sports center stops whatever it's covering to tell you about the new commissioner in their background right so it is a big moment it was a big moment when Lisa Beard left and Jessica Burman came in for the NWSL right and it has had a serious change in the league's tone over the last half decade or so which fans of the league will agree with I'm sure with with Emma less there's also so many other big updates to its format to its structure the calendar flip the sprints season the club world cup now being kind of a proven carrot in front of clubs rather than this thing that has to be part of their consideration because it's coming to the United States in 2025 right so like there's a lot that's evolving and then we haven't even gotten into the need to evolve the roster rules in order to keep up with the rest of the world as it continues to evolve in globalization makes it more viable across the world for like as well as the Tunis to invest in Allah Lee in Egypt right to to invest at a level that previously it was like big five MLS and five other leagues and then a lot of other people were looking for free agents in domestic talent right and I know that's overly simplified and there are a lot of other leagues that were operating beforehand but I think there's even more so we're we're kind of in a post coronavirus era so having someone from an ambitious club like LFC is interesting having someone who has previously said in an MLS media day in 2020 which it should be said unfortunately landed two weeks before Rudy Gobert touched every microphone in Utah and spread the coronavirus across the United States so you know retcon that with with that sort of in mind but was was also talking about that the way that MLS will be viewed in the world's lens is for its ability to recruit top talent and so the idea then is it isn't enough to just be signing three designated players we actually need to be competitive for some of the best box box midfielders and fullbacks and centerbacks and goalkeepers in the world when they become available on the market right and be seen as a viable landings about for players of all ages not just under 23 or over 35 and we need to be right like so I think that there's a little bit more of a holisticness that he brings especially when you look at how LFC was generally seen to be one of the best kind of in the background operations as well when you look at John Thornton on the sporting side they won club operations of the year two years ago and that's relative to the other 2019's right so there's at least something in there that's impressive to me so it's a big story for me but it also enhances other stories already going on because now whatever the outgoing commissioner now Don Garber has said over the last 27 years he's been in the job is context but it's not the evidence of so that's probably the direction this will go we don't know how Larry Berg is going to work because obviously a commissioner has 30 bosses as they'll tell you in a league like this and it is the ownership groups so there's some questions about how he'll do at listening to certain voices and certain sex of the ownership cadre if you will and how will he sort of balance those pain points for other clubs that maybe feel in pain at certain points so all of that stuff is still TBD but that's kind of fun for a change how much do we know about what Larry Berg has actually done has actually accomplished if the answer is not much then that is a fine and fair and honest answer but like I see him talked about from the LAFC perspective but I don't know for sure like what decision making what involvement he had there I know he's co-chair of MLSS sporting and competition committee which means which means he was involved in the calendar switch I believe he gets a lot of credit for like the U22 initiative and is involved there he's got the private equity background but like I'm wondering if you have any insight or any thoughts on anything in particular that you think could give us an insight into what he's going to be as a commissioner or how he's going to operate yeah I mean the committee that you cited the the sporting committee that's like the most relevant from a broader that's the equivalent of I was the secretary of state now I'm running for president right the idea that you've at least had some sort of interface where you've had to listen to other opinions you have to make the final decision but you also aren't where the book stops right and so I think that that is important context for him and how he should approach his role I think that there was also some so LAFC is one of the biggest clubs in major like soccer and they do have one of the highest valuations when you look at Forbes it's around 1.3 billion dollars and that's something that again someone who's like a club owner cares about a lot more than you and me right but for these purposes there is sort of a proven track record where other clubs and owners who are maybe a little squeamish about okay are you sure that you have the right intentions in mind so we'll have to look at what's been working at LAFC and say okay well you have their best intentions in mind so what can you do for our intentions right now I would actually say the clubs continued handling of the occasional inflection points that happened with the 3252 and major league soccer especially when LAFCs results aren't going well on the field there can be a tendency for the league to issue fines right and these will always come out in the postseason weirdly but they'll say like you know the LAFC has been issued to fine due to fan conduct and it's usually we didn't like this chant we didn't like this sort of booing or throwing objects on the field I remember it at an MLS cup in Columbus right but I think LAFC has done exceptionally well to try to work with their fans to stay in MLS's view of fan conduct without really asking them to betray what they want to do in their own identity I think that LAFC has one of the most clear supporter culture identities in the league and I think that that is something that an owner with less of a recognition of why it's so important to these people to be able to be a fan in the way that they are being I think that a lot of other commissioners owners would look and say oh scary we should stop getting the fines I'm really annoyed with having to foot the bill for you guys so knock it off right and and we're going to have to change how your entire game to operation works and they just haven't done that at LAFC and I commend them for that I also would say the private equity stuff is relevant but we don't know how it's going to impact this and I think that there have been some questions about where private equity would come into Major League Soccer's ecosystem I think we've started to see it already at the next pro level more predominantly and to what extent that will bleed into MLS as the first division time will tell so that's where we're still not sure but I think generally when you looked at the super clubs if you will Major League Soccer the sort of name brands of the lead right now which is the other LA team LAFC Atlanta and Miami at this stage is probably those three in the galaxy right I think that generally Berg and the rest of the ownership group has been seen as being less extreme in needing to push this thing towards totally let me just be a super club than the Moss Brothers are and so I think that that tone also will be crucial where he is carrying a lot of the ethos that the Miami ownership group has without maybe some of the lack of tact at times for either messaging or following those rules it should be said so so that's also probably encouraging for the most part if you had to guess what do you think of the top items on his agenda obviously continued expansion is going to be one salary and cap restrictions and spending structures probably going to be on there in some way overall just growing the league and regulating super clubs maybe at the same time what do you think Jeff I think that the broadcast deal will be really crucial in here too because those terms were shortened late last year and the his direct competitor for the role of the other finalist David Nathanson had brought an extensive background not just in investing in teams like the sounders and the crack in the angel city but also having extensive time working at Fox as an executive on the broadcast side and there was a sense when the finalists were named that that would be a massive drop in the bucket for him and his candidacy because MLS doesn't want to regress on its next broadcast deal compared to the windfall that they fell into with Apple but I think that they also have had a lot of reasons for understandable frustration a lot of those that are shared with all of you listening to this you try to watch MLS and don't like navigating the app don't like having spoilers as an opt out function instead of an opt in function if you have issues with commentary or the streams or finding games in public all of these sorts of things I think these are things that MLS hears and shares right they have all these experiences especially four years into this broadcast deal right now so that will be crucial because as much as we may be hate to admit it like these broadcast deals are some of the most important things for any sports league because it is the main source of revenue sharing and it's the sort of thing that raises the floor for the entirety of your league so that will be crucial do you go to 32 teams can you possibly even go beyond 32 I think at that point you're splitting it into sort of an American league national league sort of scenario where old school where they probably only play in the final right and maybe you can work that with 20 and 20 and do some clever stuff with that but is there an appetite for that do fans want that is that another format you want to have changed navigating the broader entry into the global transfer market with the calendar flip is going to be a big thing as well what goes out in Vancouver I would argue is also crucial because at this point Don Garber has been making regular trips either he or people on his behalf as he's out of things come up like you know SVP Charles Olchek has gone out there at recently at one point as well so there seems to have been a very palpable desire to keep the white caps in Vancouver that maybe we didn't see so proactively with Columbus when there were talks of them relocating to Austin and so how do you sustain that sort of push in that pressure on British Columbia and how are you able to work to keep that club there when there had been so clearly a swell a surge of interest in that story that sort of got run out of town when the World Cup came in which made a lot of sense but I think it's been become a little bit more of a quieter talking point but I think it's something that's going to be crucial for bird to get right because it'll probably unless we truly are going to get a decision by the end of the year which is the rest of Commissioner Garber's tenure as commissioner unless we get something by New Year's Day that's going to be Larry Bergs to make the final decision on and then there's Don Garber who's been in the position since 1999 he was obviously the league's second commissioner ever now we are on to our third what do you think will be his legacy how will Don Garber be remembered do you think Jeff I think like a Pete Rozo figure you know for people familiar with the NFL stories there's someone who helped get it through really frot times when you look at the late 90s what wasn't working for Major League Soccer in Florida certainly but but just was really struggling to find inroads in the American market condensed consolidating it finding owners who would work with a shared vision for this league and I'm being able to build from it right so I think that he was a really crucial steward through that but I think also really crucial to be able to grow the the league's footprint to make it something that felt like it was going to be there for the long haul and I think there was that sort of perception that once the league got past 20 teams and you had new clubs like Portland and like Vancouver and Seattle and Atlanta and Orlando come in and have their grounds while that it was like okay there's there's something really different here something really special here and then of course the next 10 are the most lucrative investment in the league's history right the the final 10 sort of franchises to date so that will be part of his legacy overseeing the current pipeline of youth development will be something that I think will largely be credited to his tenure as well with those changes having been made over the last decade to really turn MLS next into something viable and sustainable and replica across markets I think they finally found a way to do it that the DA program that preceded it wasn't doing terribly well and there will also be it should be said like the result comparison is fair because he's not universally beloved but he's like he's he's widely respected for a lot of his achievements but I think that there are a lot of people who don't like how Rizal worked with unions for example and I think and Al Davis and all these other things and I think that you look at Garber and there will be questions about the change in approach vis-a-vis the league's interactivity with its fan base and I think that there was a sort of clear step back and sanitization that began before the coronavirus when you look at some like stadium messaging policies and and fan conducts being evolved but also proxsimple proximity to players you look at the league really gutting MLS soccer doc Tom and turning it from the place that you needed to go to keep up with MLS to becoming something where there's AI generative recaps of their own games and just really not much to be able to tell their own story I think that there was a feeling that over the last five years MLS has kind of forgotten how to tell its own stories or certainly its best stories and that will be something that you know there may be other executives Gary Stevenson and otherwise that maybe that's more directly applicable too but that is something that did also happen under his tenure and it should be said I think that there are a lot of people who understandably feel that this is not the same organic groundswell sort of supporting enterprise that it was and and you know others could argue it couldn't stay that way forever if it wanted to reach this sort of top 10 soccer league in the world top four men's sports league in the United States and Canada echelon and I'll hear arguments for it I don't think I'll agree with all of them or most of them but I'll hear them at least I know that they're there certainly so yeah generally still some understandable pain points that have been felt again as you talk about Columbus as you talk about Sacramento as you talk about Rochester there have been sort of yes and then know some moments that that maybe haven't aged terribly well but by and large I think a very monument to like this this league isn't looking like it is today without the work of Don Garber and his ability to work that that boardroom with those owners and and get new owners to buy in and enhance what was already working rather than completely reinvented every single time a new team came in so yeah I think generally a job well done in the role job well done you talked about some of the teams that maybe you would like associate with him or that obviously came into existence or grew under his tenure are there players that you think are like representative of Garber's time in charge like I would assume Beckham and maybe Nessie would be on that list I think I looked at it but I think like Jason Christ was the scoring champion in 1999 so the league has come a long way in certain ways since then though Jason Christ was no slouch when he was in front of goal like are there other players that you equate with Don Garber for whatever reason or his tenure for whatever reason I like that question Jordan Morris but I also associate him with Jurgen I don't know like there's there's always this weird sort of he's the kid from Stanford whenever I watch him play to this day but I think a lot of evolving the homegrown rules and being able to make it so that the sounders could sign him rather than him going to Verda or Wolfsburg or whichever of the W clubs Bundesliga was in that for him at the time I think that was another useful revolution to be able to turn or evolution rather for the league to be able to have homegrown players be able to stick around and afford to continue to earn increased earnings rather than the original homegrown salary rules so so Jordan Morris is one landing Donovan's another one I think being able to work with him to make this a league that he wanted to be in for the duration of his career for the majority of his career you know in spite of a couple of successful loans spells away to every 10 I think but please come back because this is worth coming back to Freddie Adieu is another one that again if you're looking for kind of tough lessons learned Freddie Adieu is certainly one of the highest ones where I'm a less maybe got a little too high on a stone stock in terms and didn't really know how to best get a kind of global wonder kid uh into the best positions possible right and certainly a lot of that comes under marketing and the late grant will put out an excellent podcast series about Freddie Adieu that's worth a listen if you haven't put it out if you haven't listened to it yet um so I think that those would be a few I'm trying to think who else uh that's a great I think that really does cover it honestly like I do Donovan Morris I like maybe Dempsey in there for the way he comes back and how that felt very like whatever we got to do to get him wherever he wants to be yeah it's worth it like there is that element of rules being shaped and adjusted and flexible when you need them to be if it helps grow the league that feels like yeah a fair at least one part representation of Don Garber is commissioner and and I guess two more towards that like rules fairness etc like Germain Jones that's one I'll think of for the blind draw and place Matwiti uh is another one I suppose I will think of forever in the context of lead rules very interesting well on that note we're going to talk about some player moves in just a moment first we'll take one more break we'll hear from some sponsors we'll be right back welcome back to the total soccer show everybody in our final segment we're talking moves that have happened some maybe we've discussed previously but not with Jeff some we have not Jeff where would you like to start what what is the move that is most on your mind is most captivating to you at present they're so many I've got this like long list of stuff that just happened Joe is not here with us so you can take all the time you need Jeff what are the 10 moves that are most on your mind that are most captivating to you for whatever reason can we start with the athletics report from yesterday that Chucky Luzano might become part of the LA galaxy did you see the picture that was like I I don't know if it's a real post I don't know if it was AI did you see the picture that was like of his unveiling the the graphic that was used to announce him he looks 55 years old and I have to believe that that is like an AI joke and not a real thing because is that move official yet I don't believe it is yet okay because it was posted as though like welcome to the galaxy and I'm assuming it was that a joke but yeah I did not see that coming for a lot of different reasons not least of which is because I'm Chucky Luzano still good are we yes we think good player we think sure we think okay he he was I think better than a lot of us credited him for last year and part of that was Anders Dreier was genuinely playing at an MVP level and so if you're a newcomer on the same team in a similar position certainly spot in field right and you're not quite as good you're just not going to get talked about this much and I think that was part of what pissed him off right but I think he can be good if he's motivated I wonder about the fit because he predominantly plays on the left wing Joseph paints a plays on the left wing right so there's there's a little bit of cluttering is there but he can play on the right and so that's probably where I would put him there's something funnily like humorously poetic about the fact that the galaxy or about are like benefiting from another club's DP disaster after that infamous like geodosantos Jonathan dos Santos Christian Povone slot on moment ahead of 2019 when they had to buy out geodosantos before they wanted to and now a compatriot is coming in it's fun I think that they were realistically one of only a few teams in the league that lasano would have wanted to play for again if you talk from a brand chookie lasano perspective really bizarre that this happens this late in the process but this could just be the galaxy waiting for the best possible deal so weird what is it really strange one what is the consensus of thinking on what happened in San Diego and why he is fallen by the way sec because on some level there was maybe like a tactical argument a fitness or technique argument I'm not sure how much I find to those but a lot of the response from San Diego supporters seems to be like well that's fine that that move is fine with us and galaxy supporters seem very concerned that this is ownership basically trying to sell jerseys knowing that there will be a sizable percentage of the fan base and new fans that will come because chuck chuck chucky plays there sell some jerseys sell some merch and maybe make a splash that way if not exactly on the pitch I'm trying to remember the opponent I want to say it was Houston but there's a game last October remember the three of us talking about misty joe where he's fine he's fine we hope as he's back to outlaw joe life where he was subbed off earlier than he wanted to leave if he wanted to leave it all and he had a locker multiplication with my kivaris and that was a bridge too far and I think probably over the offseason they looked and said when we built this thing we assumed that chookie lasano would be kind of our bold dominant side winger and that Anders drier would be the weak side guy who kind of comes in late and finishes sequences or becomes the safety valve outlet or the the make weight to keep opponents honest that they're not glomming on to lasano but what we've actually found is we flow better up the right and through Anders drier and that now lasano isn't happy to switch roles basically in the attacking pecking order and it works better with a mapele greeno or it works better with someone else on the left so I think then it became pretty easy for Tyler heapses sporting director to look and say is actually not in our best interest to keep him I would have just not said that out loud that was the big thing for me from date from that moment was just like why are you publicizing this I think that it was very obvious how the next seven months we're going to go once they did so assuming that he is locked in on this one maybe humbled a little bit probably is like from a reputation standpoint I think you you miss the world cup that's certainly pretty humbling so I would imagine that those conversations will have already been had with Wilcoons in the rest of the LA galaxy of what are you getting into what role can you expect Erupeck has gone so there's already a lot of attacking responsibility your willingness to work with Ricky Pooge who hopefully not going to what comes back for this print season all of these sorts of questions I'm sure you had to be answered at that point and they must have been satisfactory if they're willing to bring him in right does it do much for you in terms of your understanding of the galaxy and what you think their ceiling might be it does less for my understanding of the galaxy I understand the gout this this looks much more like the 2010's LA galaxy than the 2020's LA galaxy to me so it's really weird like it looks like them bringing in Javier Hernandez again I'm not just trying to pick on another L3 player but just where it was the idea that thought on it had left and so okay so who do we get who do we get let's get finally teacher Rita wants to come down a lot it's time let's do it you know and we don't have the team to accommodate him and it just doesn't feel like he's at the right fit tactically for this team I don't think it's how I would have utilized that space but they probably looked and said this is a rare opportunity and we've got to take it so you can go that route or you can go the inner Miami route of signing a young unheralded midfielder just getting this on Casamero I don't think we've talked about that on the show since that deal actually happened okay I do love that like pretty much every right up I've seen of it has to in some way include uh that like their allegations of tapping up he's a not not a designated player we don't know how Miami have gotten away with this then there's always some version of like but Miami are extremely creative in their salary budgeting and the way they uh handle these types of things how have they done this aside from it's inner Miami and they kind of do what they want to do and they want to do it it's inner Miami they kind of do what they want to do and they want to do it yeah I mean like it is really funny like that is my whole note on Casamero who is on my 10 man list for this segment where it's the rules are nonsense and you can't even really begin to conceptualize this in soccer terms which is so funny because there are so many other things that fans uh casual observers who are just like where's Casamero going after leaving united like they can't hang they have you have to reheat the discovery rights banter all over again right and it's it's we're i'm i'm just sick of seeing it i don't think it's terribly clever anymore but um in soccer terms this is great for them this is great for Reggie go to Paul too by the way because now I think that he has a lot less responsibility to drop deep in midfield and I think at this stage of the career and you kind of saw this at the world cup it was part of how he fell out of the rotation or dropped in the rotation for Argentina but I think he's more interested in doing stuff closer to the final third these days um then really dropping deep and being a proper box to box guy and that's totally fine I wouldn't want to run that far either uh if i'm making that much money so um if you can finally get someone who that is your position and then this is your position and you two can figure it out and you'll get along and you respect each other's intellect like I think that's kind of where we're at with those two it's going to be a really really good engine room it's going to be a leaky engine room once you get to the 60th minute so I would imagine that Miami games will still have an element of chaos and fun to it that I have come to depend upon um with their defending or lack thereof so I think that this doesn't turn them into this like centurion's project to to quote footies new game uh where you can build your own a team of ten field players using past double less players it's a blast they have a premier league version two but um you know I think that's for for a different crowd than this um so yeah I would say overall it's just a just a silly signing but one of those where I think all of us at this point are like we'll we'll get the lowdown when someone retires in the NBA's laps and we can figure out how a inner Miami actually built this thing but until then like here we go do you think we will ever get like full clarity on how this has all happened? I hope so like I really do and I think it honestly it becomes easier for that clarity to come out once the rules change if the rules change right and if it's more like okay well under the road cause blah blah blah but now there would have been no issues with getting Casamiro and Rodrigo to Paul and all of these other players that Miami have brought in um seemingly at a lesser hit than any other club in the league possibly could have what other moves are on your list mr. rooder uh let's see uh Robert Levantowski like we don't need to spend a ton of time on that one it just like really did he agree for sturdy admittedly but like you know it's a rare opportunity to bring in someone who's going to be uniquely beloved in this city in particular so I like I get that when the opportunity presents itself you got to kind of move mountains uh they still really need help in the midfield I think if they could get Leon Graska that would certainly be good for getting passing lanes up the field to him um still some defensive shielding issues as well with that back line I think there another team that kind of wants to win the high scoring games um uh jack harrison to new england that's kind of fun that he's joined the revolution a lot of turn coat jokes to be made there uh they needed someone who could operate off of the dribble and that's great and he can certainly still do that probably um over the weekend against montreal some some some really kind of growth scenes between uh the montreal supporters and dork turgian over the weekend um but before those scenes really kicked off paint miller was having a lot of fun operating as a right winger um and so I think that there that works really well for jack harrison who is a left winger and it's a good spot for paint miller to be able to get closer to the final third if that's where each of it wants them to be um so if he's not going to be a left back then he can be a right winger and I think that that's going to be even better for their attack it looks like it could be really dangerous right now with that front three of harrison turgian and paint miller what do you make of the mls to middle's bra pipeline that we now seem to have developed out of nowhere with said berhalter and i believe max arston joining uh aid moris over there we've got an emulus for union of sorts it's a blast it's a blast like just for those three in particular all coming through the the crew academy like that is like excellent it's a good club that i think will feel like a proper home away from home and i'm sure aid moris i mean clearly Sebastian berhalter said as much in his intro press conference that moris did a great job recruiting him made the city and the club sound great and um i think it's one of those where if you're from columbus you can make columbus sound a lot better than outside refuse columbus to be and i think very similarly with middlesbrough right so like that's nice it's it's good to have that uh it's funny because i remember aid moris talking about like he did it in a very diplomatic way so that it wasn't a thing that captured headlines and got him in trouble right away but he basically talked about how like training facilities in middle's bra are different than what he experienced uh with columbus in the crew where you have in the united states a lot of state of the art complexes with like full service medical suites and kitchen staff and like luxury training grounds but then also all the amenities that come with that and i think we tend to assume that like oh it's england it's the premier league it's a former premier league club of course they all have that and of course they all do not and so i think goes aid moris saying there's some differences in the middle's bro training ground and facilities but it's a great place and it's got a lot of history and i do wonder how much uh arston and seperhalter are going to be adjusting to life in middle's bra yeah i wonder i mean berhalter has so many of these stories of his career kind of turning around training with gregg uh during covid and that was like public parks without any equipment they had to bring it all and they had to set the cones down themselves and the ways we're scared about whatever so like i think that he'll be totally up for it i think for arson also it's like last year he was kind of at a career high point just in terms of regular run out playing in the gold cup uh suddenly was still in rito pochettino's plans as we got to the fall friendlies uh when the u.s men found fun again and then you know the Columbus crew seasoned to not start well whatsoever under reach drum and uh he was playing some of the worst ball of his career he goes to the world cup he only plays like one minute in the final game after the u.s has already been played off the pitch by bell drum so good chance for him to sort of start fresh and and get into this world cup cycle in a better spot so i think it was the right time for him to go as well another one uh that joe and i have talked about uh very briefly but i'm not sure Jeff has had much time to think about out loud Antoine Griezmann moving to Orlando uh that seems to have made them quite a bit better which is the thing that Griezmann has often done with teams he plays for he tends to find ways to make everybody around him just look better look more accomplished and look more dangerous and that's been the case with Orlando yet again and i think that there's just this this like unique spirit to Antoine Griezmann that just like you know even when he's playing his first friendly against the Tampa Bay Routes and scores a goal there he's not the star who's above it and just kind of sulking his way back to the center circle which i think is generally the goal celebration in those friendlies that come to expect at this point and instead actually does like a jumping fist pump sort of thing and it's just like finally i've scored in purple and all these sorts of things so like i think that does rub off on a team when they're like wow you care about playing this friendly in florida in july i guess i should care a little bit more too huh and that goes such a long way when you think of the designated players who have succeeded like your your robby teens and and thereafter and then those who have not succeeded to the same extent who have been much more focused on their own pursuits rather than the teams so that's a really good sign another one with Orlando i'm excited about is Darrell decay man i just hope good things happen to that guy now that he's back in Orlando because his career could certainly use some good things after a few really brutally timed and just difficult to come back from injuries uh just a player who when he's healthy and he's scoring is a blast to watch and very easy to be happy for his successes and he just hasn't had a lot of those lately well very happy to be happy for your successes very easy to be happy for your successes jevruder who got to cover the us is back covering majorly soccer is back with us and next week hopefully we'll be back with joe loury i will not be here next week i was about to say with all three of us and then i immediately realized that i would not be here so that would not be the case but i'm guessing jeff and joe can find some things to talk about with majorly soccer but for now jeff great to speak with you great to have you back mr buddy good to catch up good to chat you two man you two listeners missed you all as well good to catch up good to chat and we'll talk to you again