The New International Order: Pochettino's USMNT Reset and Ancelotti's Brazil Puzzle

Early morning on a Manhattan sidewalk, a shooting caught on surveillance video. It was an assassination style killing, and everybody saw it. A new podcast series from ABC Audio in 2020 goes inside this captivating case. I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmeyer. Listen to burden of proof Luigi Mangione, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everyone. Happy Thursday here to get you ready for another football weekend is football America's Alexis Yunas alongside Hercules Gomez and Alejandro Moreno. Plenty to talk to does anybody have any tissues? Because we're going to be talking about Messi's farewell with Argentina. Yes, the time has come to put the little magician farewell. At least for the albiceleste, we'll look at that later. Plus, where do the U.S. men's national team players rank when it comes to their clubs? There's something going on, a player indexed, algorithm, all the stuff that Herk and Alej Moreno don't understand. That's why we have Ryan O'Hanlon who will be joining us to talk more about that. But of course, let's start off with the U.S. men's national team because we are firmly in the international break as we continue counting down to their first game of this international window against Peru at the weekend. Here's a couple of notes on the roster, the average age of this 28-man squad is 22 years and nine months and the average age of the 13 on cap players on the roster is 19 years and six months. The current U.S. men's national team roster includes 15 players from European clubs and with 58 caps of peace. Tyler Adams and Anthony Robinson are the most experienced players on the roster. Let's hear from one of those experienced players. Tyler Adams on the next generation. It's not such a veteran group, is it? It's quite a young group. I think we have a hybrid, a good mix of players. Like I've already said, some of the young guys don't obviously take this opportunity for granted. It's not every single camp that you get this abundance of young crop of players coming in. But I think it's important to obviously notice the trajectory that all these young players are on. Obviously there's a reason that they're here, they're doing something right. It's incredibly important that they stay humble and continue to do the work, come into this camp, play your head down, do the work, look to some of the veteran players for guidance, but also be yourself. If anybody remembers me when I was 16, 17 years old that I came in and I wasn't afraid to step on people's toes, but I was very keen on doing the work and making sure that I could earn the respect of the older players. That's always super important as you try to build this group out. So we have a lot of bright talent here, but it's just important that we all work hard and help get the best growth out of all of them. Oh, Tyler Adams who's still in his 20s, feeling like a veteran makes me feel old. So I can only imagine these two guys here, but let's get to the show. You mean the GM coach president? Yeah, well, yeah, he's covering every role there is right now with that speech. There is indeed, we're going to talk about Tyler Adams a bit more, but Herc, I want to come to you first because I want to know exactly what you have in mind for a special 11 for these games, because we know there's a lot of uncapped players. So how do you see Pochettino lining them up? You see how young this team is, average age of 22 years of age for these players. And you've got to get a good balance of veteran presence to protect the young guys, but let's face it. The whole idea of these young players being here is we got to see these young players. So let's give Diego coach a chance. He's been doing a lot of camps with the US men's national team. Let's see what the kid has made up. You don't step into the Barcelona product. You don't step into that type of atmosphere, that type of platform. If you don't have something, but I want to protect them. So I'm going to keep the back line the same and then keep Anthony Robinson. I'm going to go with Austin. Trust you had a good world cup for the time he played. He even got himself a gold goal. Excuse me with Chris Richards CB one and on the right hand side. He may be young, but he's already played his first world cup. Alex Freeman. You just hit me up with a CB one. CB one. CB one. You agree with me that if you're going to have a young keeper, make a debut. Let's protect them. No, I agree with that, but don't hit me up with CB one. Let's see if you're still with me here. If you're going to have that defense, let's stick with what's already working. Tyler Adams has been so good for the US men's national team in multiple different setups. I'm going to keep him in his role like he did in the world cup with the ability when Alex Freeman goes up to step in as a third center back and protect. But he's going to be up here in the midfield. I'm going to keep that the same. What I'm going to do though is I really like Mehmeti and I really want to see a double pivot. This kid reminds me a lot of Tyler Adams with a little bit more to offer going forward with the ball. So he's going to have a hybrid role for me as a double pivot but also that Western McKinney role where you go forward at times with Tillman and you're going in these channels and making those movements. But this guy, Malik Tillman, he's going to operate as the ten. I really enjoyed what I saw of him in the world cup. He was a different type of player. Right now, we got the midfield. We've got players that are veterans that know what they have to do. Introducing a young player that can maybe play a different type in a double pivot. Do you like that? I like the idea theoretically. Here's the other thing. It's a bunch of games that you're going to play in this international break. You don't have to have all these young guys on the field all the time. So I'm thinking for me, if I'm going to get to see the young guys and yeah, they have a bright future. But maybe, maybe. I'm more interested in seeing this guy. Yes, the return. I'm putting in Yunus Musa and see what he's going to bring to this national team. Because if there's anybody that should have some motivation in this squad that was called in, that was supposed to be part of the picture for the World Cup and wasn't. And now gets an opportunity once again with the national team. Maybe there is an appreciation for Yunus Musa. The fact that you haven't been here, you get yet another chance. This is when you want to prove yourself. And if I'm ready to participate, you know, I want to see that attitude. And I want to see that double pivot that you're talking about with Tyler Adams. Yeah, I don't mind the Yunus Musa show one bit. Let's remember. Let's recall that Yunus Musa was a big part of this program. Yeah, the best this program has looked in the 2022 era. That World Cup was against England. And it was Yunus Musa, Weston McKinney, Tyler Adams, that made Jude Bellingham Mason Mount and company really suffer. He's a good player. And the player that I might add was in the bow of Christian policy of not wanting to go to the goal cup. But he paid the ultimate price. He was left off of everything. In front. There's been a lot of talk. Yes. Christian politics night here. The arrogance of some of these young players. They need to be humble. And everybody singled out this guy, Kevin Sullivan. I want to see what he can do. Yeah. I want to see what this kid has. Tyler Adams said he stepped on some toes. Yeah, he stepped on some toes. He said they need to be humble. This is a kid who's been stepping on some toes, but proven his worth in Major League Soccer. This is not Major League Soccer. What can you do with the full national team to a good way to protect them? Maybe. See what he could do here. And then say your goal. So move for Rousa Lake. Ali was playing as a right back wingback. But he goes to Christophe Palace. And they say we see him more as an attacking player. Tacking player in the midfield. Attacking player. White coming in. That's where they see him. That's where I want to see him. I'm going to leave off with Julian Hall. And maybe I'd be by the fault. Because he's the only real profile nine. They maybe have right now. There is no faller. And Balagin. He's got his own issues. He's dealing with the leg injury. He's dealing with the Everton fell transfer. And when Ricardo Pepe gets injured, the worst possible timing. Julian Hall. Who reminds me in profile. Reminds me in moment. And reminds me in so many different things of Josie Altador and his rise to the U.S. men's national team. Red Bull product. Right? He's a guy who was a winger. Who gets converted into a nine. Who is very nimble. Very athletic. And was scoring goals at a very young age. Who didn't grow into that role in a prominent way as a nine. Julian Hall. Who would I go with, Ali? Okay. Look. I understand what you're trying to do here. But I have to have a mix. I have to have a mix of young players and veteran players. And while I understand what you're trying to do with Goso here. I'm still thinking a little Serginio Destiny. Yes, sir. Serginio Destiny in my life. That's what I'm saying. Right? I think he likes that. I'm going to throw something at you that you're probably going to tell me. What are you talking about? That's right. I get that all the time. You know who I think could be useful to have in the position that you have Julian Hall? Yeah. I'm going to throw something at you. Do you know what? Okay. You were going to do you know what? As a false nine. And why do I think this could be important for? Okay. Do you know what? That has proven to be a guy that inside the 18-yard box has a lot of good instincts. He's a good finisher. He just doesn't get himself in those positions all that often. But when he does, he is a good finisher. But beyond that, I think he gives him responsibility. It gives him accountability. Look, you are leading the line for this team. You're not going to have as many defensive responsibilities. But you're going to have to lead this line. And you're going to have to carry some of the youth of this team, including Kevin Sullivan. Who I assume will be playing on that left-hand side. I'm a little weary of... I don't mind calling this young player. I'm sorry. Sullivan should have on the other side. And it goes on the other side. But yes. This kid's left body. Sorry. Apologies. You okay? Yeah. You're fine. You're okay with that? We forgive you. Maybe the other way around. Just go ahead. Okay. Well, I'm going to play him over there. That's right. Because I'm making the decision. Yeah. I'm a little weary of trusting this young guy's right away. Not because I don't think that they're good enough to do it. Right. It's because the message that you have given if you are Marisa Patrino is that you have to earn it. Right. You have to earn this. And for you to have your first call up and then right away walking to the starting lineup, I mean, I'm the same. I'm the same. You know, I don't... At some point... And this is why I have a problem with guys like Christian Policing not being in this call up because you sort of have to set a standard. Right. And you got to tell this young guy, this is why you need to be. And it feels like if you start handing out tabs and international appearances, the first time that they're called up, I don't know that that's exactly the way I would go about it. I would call them in. And I would give them some playing time. But give them a start. I don't know that I would go as young as you have. Yeah. I thought about that, Ali. And here's the reasoning behind it. Is there four games in two weeks? Yeah. And this is such an unproven now kind of ground that the only way that I could really go about this if I'm already supposed to know is by mixing it up. If not, you exhaust the starters in it with all you. I mixed it up. You had all young guys. Oh, no, no, no. I mixed it up. I had majority veterans and then the young guys. Well, a second. You had Gosalin. Yeah. You had Julian Holin. Yeah. You had Mehmedian. Well, that doesn't... I mean, I'm... For the six. I'm still a coach in. Yeah. There's a veteran guy. No, no, no, no. There's one, two, three, four, five. Oh, six. Stop it. One, two, three, four, five, six. Two, one, six. Six. Six to four. So what did you say? Did you just do your own math there? I told you a six to four. No. Julian Holin, you had in. Yes. Right? You had Gosalin. You had Sullivanin. You had Mehmedian. And you have Cossianin. Well, I'm doing field plays. Six to five. There we go. Still, I'm a veteran, veteran player. I wasn't counting the goalkeeper. A veteran player. We got there in the end. Well, I want to speak about one of the quote-unquote veteran players because we heard from him. And like I said, he's still in his 20s. But usually when we're talking about leadership on any USman's national team roster, a lot of people say, look no further than either Chris Richards or, of course, Tyler Adams. For many, he is the Captain America considering. He is that, especially for this team. Is this his squad now? Is this his roster now? I don't think there's ever been a question about that. If you ask anybody who they think the leader of this team is, the majority would say it's Tyler Adams. And then they would say, but Chris Richards is. Yeah. But Chris Richards at the bottom with both of them are. There's a health asterisk that comes with both of them. Right? Right before the lead up to the World Cup, it was Chris Richards who had torn ligaments in that ankle. He was going to be a doubt for the USman's national team in the World Cup. For as long as I can remember, Tyler Adams has had doubts about his health. Put whatever important game there is here, right before, there's some sort of doubt at his club team, with the national team. It's never been an issue about their leadership. There's just so few leaders on this national team that we put the importance on these two players. Alev. You know, the answer he just gave in that press conference. It's so prepackaged and sort of thought of and thought about me. I know, but it's just like that. What kind of leadership style do you like that? It's too much for me. It's too nice. It's too... The nice and eloquent style is too much for you. It's too nice for me. What do you not? No, because honestly, for me, for me, if I were a player in that team, in that locker room, and again, hurt you at least. Yeah, so let me not forget that name. Hercules was my teammate. He knows that I don't really suffer fools. I'm a little edgy. And those things haven't changed, to be honest with you. Still hard to know. Well, whatever you want to call it. And all of that sounds all that great. It's all good. It's a thing that you want to hear from a captain. It's a thing that you want to hear from your leader and people and the media that listens to it and the fans that listen to it. You think the players... But if you're a player in there, you're not like... I mean, it's just not... Oh. I don't... I... If I'm in there, I'm not buying it. Well, I'm not buying it. But that's me. But then again, I have my own issues. No, no. And you're good. But I guarantee that's the same message being sent out to the players. Well, I assume not. But it's a message that we're seeing. And I think that's the message they want us to see. Yes, I know. But that's what I'm saying. And that's the message that I don't... You'd rather a bit more rough around their edges today. I don't... Well, I think that's a message that I don't consume. And while it's all the right things, it's too many right things. And inside a locker room, in the depths of a locker room, there needs to be a little bit more edge. There needs to be a little bit more friction. There needs to be a little bit more... Yeah. It's such a young squad. More competition. Yes, but that young squad is trying to take your place. That guy that was sitting right next to Tyler Adams, what's the comparison he made? He said, well, he's a Tyler Adams, but he has a longer passing game, a better passing game. You really can give him a little reminder. No, it's like, hey, dude, this is my place. And he'll get that. And you're not coming here to take my place. Now, we can package it as... Look, we're all here, and I'm leading you and you're leading me. And it's going to be great. We're going to be on this together. But the truth of the matter is that this is competition. And you being here is a threat for me. So I'm going to elevate my game, and you better be able to keep up. Of course, that message is not going to come out. Yeah, I don't think that the message is going to be sent from Tyler Adams very quickly. The first time I met Tyler Adams was on the field. He's in game Toronto versus New York. There's a play where he and I got into it. He's a teenager 15, 16 years old. And the last thing I remember him saying to me was, F off. So this is a kid who doesn't care who he's playing against. And I'm sure he doesn't care that there's a seven children in front of him with similar characteristics that wants to eat his lunch. The message will be you earn your way here. Well, I agree with everything you said that it was player, GM coach, the message. Yeah. There's also a warning shot there. He used the word, these guys need to be humble. He already knows who he's got to put in his place. So I enjoy that. Yeah, but, but, but do they? Do they need to be humble? See, that's, this is the part that I don't quite understand. You don't like the Mr. Nice guys thing? No, look. You want him? You want him to express himself. If he's a baller, then be a baller. And if you, if part of being a baller is you're going to behave the way you're going to behave, then it is the responsibility of the players around them to say, eh, eh, enough for that. But let him be him. That's what makes him a good player. Let him flow. You want to limit that because you want him to be humble? I don't know. I don't know if you actually get the best out of him. That's all I'm saying. Spoken like a man who doesn't like to eat humble pie a day in his life. Well, you can see more of our, I don't know, I'm the rest of it because you never had to. Why are you talking on our ESPN FC show? Remember, we are on seven days a week. We're taking a quick break, but coming up, where do the USman's national team players rank with their clubs? Ryan O'Hanlon will be joining us to talk more about this next. And just like that, we are back on football. America's welcome back in as promised. We have Ryan O'Hanlon joining us right now because we're going to preview a piece that's coming out on ESPNFC.com, Ryan, where you've been ranking the 50 USman's national team players, or I would say the top 50 USman's national team players, as it relates to their club, according to a player performance index. Now, I'm told there's some fancy algorithm and whatnot involved. So just explain it to us how you guys sorted this ranking before we get straight into specifics. Yes. So we bought five different data centers and then used those to formulate an AI and accomplish these rankings. I'm just kidding. It's not complicated at all. It's pretty much purely based on how much they're playing for their club team, so what percentage of game time they're on the field? Then using the company Opta, they just have a rating system for all the teams in the world. So essentially, how much are you playing? How good is your club team? And then there's a very small added aspect for transfer values, so just sort of like a conventional wisdom aspect to make sure the rankings that don't get too crazy, basically. All right. Well, we're just having a look at the top 10 right now, which we see are obviously a lot of the, what we would call veterans of the USman's national team, people that were used to seeing around like Chris Richards, Anthony Robinson, Ricardo Peppie, Tyler Adams, et cetera. But I know one of the things you did mention in your article is that if come 2030, the US is still relying heavily on this players then something is very, very wrong. So, is that concerning for you now that none of the new players or these uncapped players that we're seeing in the current international window for Mauricio Puchettino have even made that top 50? I think you could look at it. Maybe there's like a gap between the classic McKinney Adams generation and then this sort of incredible new generation that you guys have been talking to that I'm sure we'll talk about of teenagers that are just tearing it up in MLS. I think maybe you could say there's a little bit of a gap in like the sort of generation that would come between those two. But I think there's just enough time and so many of these talented young players that it's not something I'd worry about yet if we're having the same conversation in two years then I think it might be time to worry. What about in six months, Ryan? Does this mean that you're going to have to go and do another top 50? Yeah, I'm sure my editors are going to want me to do another top 50 much earlier than six months and the other thing about this ranking, most of the European club teams have played four or five games so it's a pretty noisy metric so far. It'll be love a better sense of how things are actually going once some more games have been played. All right, well I want to talk about a specific player that I think has been on everybody's lives over the last couple of months because of his absolute form with the Philadelphia Union and you know it is Kevin Sullivan. He's at number 31. You speak so highly of him as well in the piece and I think a lot of people are going to be wondering why is he then all the way at 31? Yeah, so it's to defend myself. If I was just doing my own subjective rankings he would be higher but like I said, this is sort of a playing time and team quality-based metric and he didn't really start playing a ton for the Union until after the World Cup and also the Union have been on an absolute heater since the World Cup. So you know his club team isn't as good as Crystal Palace or Bournemouth and he just hasn't played as much over the course of the full season but if we were just looking at this since the World Cup or we were looking at advanced stats or performance he'd be way higher. I don't want to get crazy but maybe within the top 10. So what you're saying is casually to Philadelphia Union that they need to step up their game and then Kevin Sullivan can be a bit higher I wonder how much it will change, of course, when he's off over to Manchester City next year potentially. So I want to talk now about the emissions that we're seeing in this current international window. Of course there are a couple of names that have opted to stay out Christian Policik being one. Tim Wei as well, another one. Which one for you is the one that probably least makes sense? I think I would say Timothy Wei. It's just kind of hard to, as someone who's been following U.S. soccer for a long time. It's hard to think that there's a 26-year-old or 26-year-old who is the captain of Marseille and has played every minute of every game and he's not getting called up to the U.S. national team. I think part of that is because of this, you know, somewhat of an experimental roster. My guess is also some of it had to do with him playing quite poorly against Turkey at the World Cup but we've also seen him transition from more of a winger to actually like a straight-up fullback, not even a wingback with Marseille. So I think some of that can be attributed to him playing out of position. I would imagine he'll be back in the fold but yeah, just the fact that the captain of Marseille is not getting called up to the U.S. is just a kind of ridiculous statement if you think back five years, ten years, where the player pool used to be. Yeah, I was going to say it's almost like what more would you want him to do. So what do you think Marseille Pochettino isn't quite seeing in him at least for this current international window? I know it's hard asking you to get into the mind of Pochettino but if you had to, you know, take a guess as to what may have kept him out, what would it be? Yeah, I think, like I said, he was one of the worst players on the field in the Turkey game, I would say. Like he just really struggled the ball kept going out wide to him and nothing kept happening. So that feels like it's kind of in Pochettino's head and then I just think he hasn't... I don't know, he just hasn't basically since the 2022 World Cup his form with the U.S. obviously the infamous red card in the Copa America and he just hasn't been super consistent under Pochettino. So I think it's a combination of sort of a long track record of poor form with the U.S. and then like what have you done for me lately is also not great. And overall, that red card is just going to haunt him for the rest of his life, I think, unfortunately. Overall, when you're looking at the camp now and the roster that Marisa Pochettino has called up, what do you make of the balance of it? It seems to me like the ideal roster for the first window after the World Cup. Even with Policic, like, do I think he'll never play for the U.S. again? No. But also, I assume he sort of takes up a lot of the oxygen in the room from a personality perspective and then from a playing perspective, the balls kind of just getting funneled out to him. And he's 28. He's aging out of his prime as wild as that seems to say. So I think like not having him there really provides a great opportunity for a lot of people, especially these younger guys, that might be part of the team in this cycle, might be part of the team in the next cycle to step up. So, you know, I think it's kind of a very clear turning of the page with no players even in their 30s. But I think it's the right way to look at this. The next World Cup's in four years. So why not try to make things younger immediately? All right. And the final question from me now is, who are we not talking about in a friend? I know you always have a pick there. Yeah, I would say Santiago Castelleta, who again has played every minute for Patterborn in the Bundesliga, is 21. It was a starter in the German Second Division for the two years before that. Again, the like five years ago, 10 years ago, we would be freaking out about a player doing this. And now we're not. It's not even clear if he's close to getting a call up because he does fit the sort of younger player mold that we're seeing in this pool. And I also think he's just like a very clear ball winning destroyer in midfield who then just passes the ball sideways. And strangely enough, for all the midfield depth, the US doesn't have a lot of sort of just defensive shields to win the ball, give it to someone to pass it up the field. So both, I think, his performance and then his profile of player kind of warrant him being in the picture. And I mean, he still has only 21 years old, so I don't really want to say that time is running out. But then you look at some of the other call-ups like Kevin Sullivan, you know, at 16 years old, if you're a go-so at 19 years old, you probably are wondering when is my time going to come? So what more do you think he needs to go or it's the needs to do to at least get closer to, you know, being in the conversation of a call-up? I think continuing to play for Patterborn obviously is the first thing. Just got to keep starting. And I think if Patterborn plays well in the Bundesliga, they just kind of become a higher profile team. He becomes a higher profile player because of that. Honestly, it might just be a situation where like someone has to get hurt, like not this window, but in one of the windows. And he kind of, they're forced to sort of call an emergency player in. He gets called in. And then he like forces Pochettino to watch him play in person. Like it almost does feel like a little bit of good fortune sort of has to happen for a pathway for him to open up to get into the picture. Right. Rihanna Hanlon. Thank you so much for hanging out with us on football. I made it because we can't wait to catch up with you again soon. Yep. Talk to you soon. All right. Well, you can definitely check out Rihanna's article, which drops tomorrow. That's Friday over on ESPN.com. You can check it out as well for the full list. All right. Let's put the USman's national team chat aside and let's talk about L3 Shelby because it's also an interesting international window for them because Rafa Marquez has announced his first Mexico squad ahead of their first game. This break against Colombia. A lot of eyes are on L3 now to see what the Mexican great can do. In this next era, there's a couple of notes on Mexico's squad 17 players from what seemed to be a successful world cup have been called up and Chivas have the most players on the team. All right. Let's talk a bit more about this. Herc, what does Rafa's first roster tell us? It tells us that he's trying to make a change, but a lot of the change that we're seeing are players that we already know. You look a lot of these new players, potential debutants, there are five. A lot of them have been here before. They've been in camps with the Mexican national team. It's nothing new. There's nobody that you're going to turn over and you're like, oh, yeah, this guy is somebody new. What's new is we may actually see them. What's new is they may actually get a chance to play. What's new is you're going to push out the old. And the old, this generational change, maybe is being forced. Raul Jimenez is injured. William Kinyones, who is getting up there in age, but I think will be very much still an instrumental part in the late of 2030. He's not here because of injuries. You mean the ballon doors, top 30? No. Not many. Just saying. So what this tells me is there is going to be that change. The team has gotten younger. On paper, it is younger than it was at the world cup from what we're seeing. But by no means or stretch of the imagination, are you seeing players in your thinking this is a new team? It's Obed Vargas. It's Mateo Chavez. It's the young guys who are coming through the ranks. That leave you with some hope, but you've seen them before. You're just hoping they can become the players you expect them to be. Alan, anything sounds out to you? The question is, what does Rafa's first roster tell us? He's out of his mind. Chuki Rosano? I mean. Rafa, have you seen Chuki Rosano play over the last, I don't know, two through years? Chuki Rosano? Look, I'm going to defer to Liga and Meki's former player and expert, Hercules Gomez. And Mexican soccer expert, Hercules Gomez, to tell me, Chuki Rosano? What? You talk about knowing what a player is and has been. What does bringing Irwin Chuki Rosano give you if you're Rafa Marquez? Listen, I'm with Ali here. The only thing I could think of is familiar with the player. He's looking for a certain profile. You look at that profile. Cesar Huerta is injured. He's the only type of other profile. You could say he's very direct, very... I'll take somebody on or try to take somebody on. But Ali's absolutely right in the terms that if we're going to go Chuki Rosano, think about the best version of Chuki Rosano. You've got to go back to 2018. It's been quite some time since you've... Eight years. Yes, that version of Chuki Rosano, which is why there are a few here that don't make sense to me. You mentioned Chuki Rosano. I'll go one further. Hirman Berterame. Hiran Berterame, if you've seen Inter Miami play right now, he's not confident. His teammates don't see a confident player. He's missing goals in front of the net that are a type of range that you have to bury. He's not burying them. There are a couple players here that just feels forced. It feels forced because of death that they don't have, or because of the profile they're looking for. That's why I think Chuki Rosano is here. Those, to me, are the only real head scratchers. Eva, and under Berterame conversation, we have had on multiple locations, conversations on this very desk, about Inter Miami, and the limitations that they have had in the attack that it's either messy, or it's not happening for them in the attack. This very season, we have had this conversation. And part of that conversation has been the struggle of Hirman Berterame. And yet, somehow, he finds his way back into the national team, I do not understand it. All right, well, let's move on to my second question now, because obviously it's a new manager, new era now. So everyone will feel like they have a new leaf to impress a new manager, even Chuki Rosano, believe it or not. So who has the most to prove under Rafa Marquez now, Herc? It's got to be Armando La Urmiga on Salis. And the reason is, listen, he's 23 years of age, and a lot of you're going to be like, what do you mean? The guy put 14 minutes at the World Cup? Well, what do you expect from him? He's got a real opportunity now. Raul Kimenez is injured, and he's not going to be in 2030. He's not going to be the starting number nine for the Mexican national team. Santiago Kimenez has proven thus far he's not him. That's not the man. You're just secure to move to limpiacos. You're scoring a few goals. You have an opportunity to take the number nine position and make it your own. But the only way to do that is the same way his mentor Javier Hernandez did. He's putting the ball in the back of the net. They're very similar players. They are very similar players. Both players depend on their movement, they depend on their instincts in the final third, in and around the box, and they're straight goal scores. I see resemblance in both. The difference is, Javier and his World Cup? He didn't get 14 minutes. He got more, and why? Because he was putting the ball in the back of the net. La hormiga González didn't have his time in the World Cup. He didn't get his moment. He's got to make this his moment. Santiago Kimenez, believe it or not, right now is carrying a knock, even though he's with the national team. He's got a second lease on life at Porto. If you're Armando González, you can't allow this player to grow. You've got to put these opportunities away, and you've got to make this position yours, because right now everybody's asking themselves, well, it's not Raul. Who's the nine? When is Santiago Kimenez not carrying a knock? Because you mentioned La hormiga González, and while I agree in terms of the big picture, I do think that in terms of players that have something to prove with this national team, Santiago Kimenez is very much at the top of that list. He was supposed to be the guy, and he was given multiple opportunities to be the guy. And then injuries have taken over, and he never seems to recover fully from this injury. And so that's why we're having a conversation about La hormiga González. We shouldn't be having this conversation, and yet it is. A real conversation, because Santiago Kimenez hasn't been able to grab a whole of that position. If it's ever going to happen, it seems to be like, now would be a good time to do so. I think he's under pressure as well. All right. Santiago Kimenez, I hope you're not watching this one. No problem. Final question now, because... Because he's taking care of the knock that he has. Final question now. I like to say that comparison is a thief of joy, but let's compare what Rafa Marquez is trying to do, or what we're thinking Rafa Marquez is trying to do, with what Mauricio Pochettino is trying to do. Now that we see their two rosters as this rebuild continues for this next cycle. So, who has the better rebuilding approach from what we can read early on? Well, listen, the rebuild approach for Rafa Marquez goes beyond Rafa Marquez himself. This is... Rafa Marquez was the assistant coach with Javier Aguirre, so you're continuing what for them was a very successful World Cup. It goes to the federation with Andres Lillini, who is the director of the federation. Shout out to Andres Lillini. All right. You make this show? Yeah. But what I'm trying to get to is what their rebuild is doing, is they're trying to go after dual nationals, young players, they're trying to change the way these players come through, which has already done dividends for the players like... Orbele... Orbele Vargas, Brian Gutierrez, the Dullnets like that. That's an approach that you say, okay, it's going to give you fruit down the road. But there's just not enough material, not enough talent there, where Marisa Pochettino has a luxury of... Try out now 13 players that can get their first cap, 13 debutsons, and 11 of them are under the age of 20. And you're thinking, well, there's still players that he left off, who potentially would have been on. So it seems like he's got a lot more to work with. I'll go with Marisa Pochettino just in terms of what he has at his disposal and what he's trying to do. It's evident with this roster that there is a rebuild, a generational change. There's not so much of that in the Mexico roster. And some of these players have already been there. It doesn't seem like that much of a change. Some of it, you're asking yourself, as Ali just mentioned, why are you going back to the... Well, it's Chucky Lozano. Why are you going back here? So I'll go with Marisa Pochettino. I don't think there's a doubt that is Marisa Pochettino, by the way. In the first segment, you used CB1, and now you used Duolnats, you have changed it. You have changed. I don't know what has happened to you, but you have changed. As it pertains to Marisa Pochettino, I don't think there's any doubt that he has what we call in Spanish-speaking countries, materia prima. And he has something to work with. He has what we think is material. What we think is talent. What we think... That's a luxury even. Well, I don't know if it's a luxury or not, unless you... Well, we will see. Well, yeah, you've got to develop and nurture this talent and make sure that this talent becomes what you think is going to become. Because otherwise, we're going to have a conversation about Friday and do again. And I don't want to do that in my life. Just maybe suggesting. Well, look, I think Marisa Pochettino has in front of him an opportunity to really get something out of this player. Now, this player will be here with the national team for three weeks and then they'll go back to their clubs. And so it's the responsibility of the players themselves to continue their growth so that then they're called back into the national team and we continue this cycle over and over again. But Pochettino does seem to have more material to work with than Rafa Marquitos. And Rafa Marquitos has gone now down the path of Chukirozano and let me just tell you, I'm not having it. But if we're talking about Terry Abrima, I mean, Mexico have some silverware in the youth system, so wouldn't that count? But they're not on the national team. But as we're saying, should he be going there? Oh, well, but that's... At least give me the chance, Pochettino. You also have a better approach. Doesn't that answer your own question? I think it's great. I think it's... I'm throwing one back. I think it's great that Mexico has dominated at all levels, all youth levels. Like one time Nigeria dominated at all youth levels. What does that guarantee you? Some of these tournaments... Some of the players may not have been age appropriate. Like Mexico has in the past. Oh, well. Well... I'm not going down that road, but I'm saying, oh, sorry. I'm stating facts. And some of these tournaments, like the Olympics, the Olympics are great. And very quickly, my buddy is like, hey, the Olympics are going to be in Los Angeles. Should we get tickets to the Olympic Games, you know, in soccer? I'm like, yeah, go for the women, because everybody plays. In the men's, it's a U-23 tournament. Not the best players go. And I'm having to explain this. That happens in a lot of different youth tournaments as well. So why it's great? And if you're Mexico... Here's my cabinet of trophies. I've dominated the region. That is true. But it doesn't guarantee you full national team success. Ipunto. You just proved that at this point, then. There we go. I'm saying, I don't know why you... We'll see. Who has a better approach? I think Mario's going to put Zatino. There we go. Well, for more talk about L3, you can bet that the crew over on Outer Nunca will be talking about it. It's available weekdays over on YouTube. I was going to say out with O. In with the new, but look at that smile on Alaska's face, because he himself, as well, is starting a new era, as he has taken over Valencia. If you watch La Liga on ESPN, it will be no easy task as Valencia have been struggling, not just at the start of this season, but for the last couple of seasons, as well, there they are on the bottom half of the standings. They are already in the relegation zone, after picking up four points only from their seven games played. So Javier Aguirre, is he the right man for Valencia right now? He has at least now until the end of the season. If you know anything about Javier Aguirre, and what his club coaching resume includes is, when teams are in complete disarray, and they need some fires. The roof is caving in, and they need a miracle scape. And while that's not quite the situation for Valencia just yet, it is no surprise that they have gone down the road of Javier Aguirre, and give him credit because usually, when he is able to take over this sort of situations, somehow he manages to get his teams enough points to barely survive. And that's why I assume it's going to happen here with Valencia. They will get enough points barely to survive. It's not a good team, obviously, and they are in emergency mode. And there is no better emergency mode manager than a guy like Javier Aguirre, who seems to thrive in this environment, even better than he would in a World Cup environment. This, the suffering, the pain, this seems to be where he is most comfortable. That's where Valencia are right now, so it would seem to be the right hire for a club that desperately needs something different. Just to get him to put out some fires in matter. Well, you're talking about fires, and what Al is talking about is exactly right. In Mexico, they refer to him as El Bombero. And what do you do when the house is on fire? You call Al Bombero a fire? I'm going to come save the house. This house is on fire. The same way that the Mexican National Team House was on fire, they called Javier Aguirre. He's been in this situation. This will be his fifth time in La Liga. He's been in some desperate situations. Los Asuna, Mallorca, Leganez. Only once has that team gone down, been relegated. That was the Leganez 2018-19 season. And if you remember, their best player, Barth Wright, was sold to Barcelona mid-season. And he's like, what are you doing? We're trying to save ourselves. And you're selling our best player. That's the only time he didn't save the house. This is his demo. This is where he feels very confident. But I'll tell you what. Peter Lim, what he's done to Valencia, if it's not now, it'll happen next year or eventually, because he has destroyed this club. But Javier Aguirre has mentioned it himself. This is a historic team in La Liga. He knows who he's trying to save. This is another stripe on the tiger for Javier Aguirre. This is where he feels comfortable. Yeah, and we'd love going to Valencia, don't we, Ale? And there will be a new stadium. And there will be a new stadium, indeed. So you may want to stay in La Bremena. Well, that stadium, I want to stay in La Liga. You'll be able to finish that. Don't believe that opening the stadium while you're here in La Segunda makes a whole lot of sense. You may still want to be on ESPN. That's exactly where you have La Liga. Well, let's talk about what success looks like them for Javier Aguirre there. Is it just merely surviving, Ale? That's it. That's a standard. That's as much as you're going to get from Javier Aguirre and that's as much as you should expect from this Valencia team. They're not going to be much better than that. And I think if you're going to expect anything from this Valencia team and Javier Aguirre is going to be, we're going to be organized. We're going to defend. Well, we're going to be difficult to beat. We may run into a goal here and there and we'll get enough points against teams around us, not necessarily teams above us, but around us that if we do that consistently enough, we'll survive. That's it. That's the expectation. Nothing more than that. And if he does that, it's jump down by Javier Aguirre. What was the year they played Barcelona in the Equipada Rey Final? Do you remember that? That's a while back. That's a while back. That's a... People... Give me the mentioned breath. Give me the mentioned breath. I have better hair than bright. Oh! I'm saying! I'm just saying! I do! Give it a bit of multi-billionaire now. Who? What a hot better hair. But you better hair. But that's the expectation that people think when they think Valencia, there's an opportunity for this team... To make a cup run at least. And even it will hurt them to make a cup run. It really will. It will hurt their La Liga chances. The expectation is to keep this team afloat. It is to survive this year. They've got four points. Four points. And that's not a death sentence right now. But if they don't just concentrate on staying afloat, it surely will be. Later, you can think about a cup run. As Javier Aguirre had with Mallorca, and they lost in penalty kicks in the final two, I believe it was Bilbao. At Lake Bilbao, who they lost two in penalty kicks in the couple of years ago. That's when you can start dreaming. Right now, stay afloat. It's four points. And if you want to see the Javier Aguirre impact on this team, look at the goals allowed. So far, they have allowed 13 goals. It's almost two goals again. That's not going to be the case from here or now. This team is not going to give up goals. They're not going to score a lot. But they'll score just enough. Survival is the only thing they're looking for. All right. Well, El Bombero definitely bows into action for Valencia when La Liga returns on our network next month. Valencia will be going up against Racing Santander. This is Sunday, October 11th, 3pm Eastern time. That may not be a priority in my schedule, that game. Let me just say it. Maybe on it. What? All right. Let's get some dripping or dripping. Because like I said, it's time to get the tissue boxes out because Lionel Messi is getting ready to play his final game for Argentina. And he has been given a farewell jersey. Have a look at it. Gold letters and numbers there. Because that's exactly what he deserves. What do we think, guys? It's dripping or dripping. You're the fashion fool. The drip expert. Listen, I love it. Can you focus in on the numbers really quickly? The little goat horns on the numbers. Very nice touch. Look at that. That is beautiful. It is beautiful. It's also not lost upon me that they're taking every moment that is Messi as one final squeeze of the lemon marketing dollars. Ching, Ching. Ching, Ching. And taking that opportunity for what it's worth. But this is a beautiful, beautiful kit. This is, you know, as the kids tend to say, dripping. Oh. This is dripping all over. I mean, this is, you know what? The details. The details. I'll take an Excel. You know, it used to be. I mean, you're not an Excel. Well, it's your only to say. I'm a little wider than I used to be. Are you going to sleep in that Excel? I'm just saying. I live not an Excel. I would say an L pushing it. Pushing it. Thank you for that. But I'll take one. I'll take one. Whoever is in charge of making decisions, I'll take one. Give us a call. Actually, have a couple of links that added us. Oh, all right. Well, let's go to somebody or where from somebody added. It's added us. Add it us. Yes. That is it. You all know it's German. Yeah. Yeah. We don't go there, Alex. Too soon. Too soon. All right. Well, let's hear from somebody who knows Messi very, very well. And that, of course, is Lionel Scalone. This is what he had to say ahead of that farewell game on October 6th. On October 6th. All right. All right. Scalone, they're talking about this occasion. So thoughts on what the big man had to say, Alex? Well, let me just say outside of what Scalone mentioned there, which I think is what you would expect him to say about Lionel Messi, that it is the right moment to pay tribute to Lionel Messi. So be it. I'm with him. We cannot have gotten a better team than Benin. Oh. I mean, let's make it a grand occasion. I suppose it's just about Lionel Messi and not the team that they're playing against. Yes. And this could potentially be with all due respect to Benin. 10-0. And people would love that. Maybe Messi gets more fun. I don't know. I don't know. That's not really all that relevant. But I'm saying, if it's a grand occasion, let's make it a real grand occasion. Regardless, Lionel Messi deserves whatever he gets. And whatever he gets is not going to be enough as to how important and how significant he has been to Argentina. The people of Argentina, the national team of Argentina, what he has meant to the world of soccer, to the world of sports, pop culture, Lionel Messi is bigger than anything and everything that you can think of. And so he's going to get his tribute and whatever tribute he gets is not going to be enough. Clearly, he has earned everything that comes this way. To that, Ale, I'm with you. Benin? Like, and I know this goes with what Argentina has been doing, post-catar and the games they've been scheduling outside of Comnaville, these not official games, that's been their MO. That's who they play against, these type of teams. But this is arguably the greatest player that's ever played the game. It's not arguable in my eyes. If it's arguable in yours, arguably the greatest player that's ever played the game. And deserves a little bit more. In a ideal world, a dream scenario, you get Argentina versus Barcelona. And you get it in Capna. And John Laporta was asked about this in the assembly with the socios in Barcelona and his answer was, we're going to do this. Once the stadium is finished at full capacity, that moving target, by the way, this stadium was supposed to be finished in 2026. Yeah. To me, that's a slap in the face to one of the players that's given this club so much, if not everything, only Johan Kroif has probably given them more or equal to. It would have been a dream scenario to do that. Yet, while I agree with that, anything that would have happened, would have fell short, Benin just feels like not enough. Damn. Look, this Leonel Messi-Rai was going to come to an end eventually. And sticking the landing isn't always the easiest thing to do, especially when you're trying to land potentially the greatest player of all time. How do you go about doing this? How exactly do you manage to check all the boxes? Who is deciding what those boxes are? There's a lot of moving parts here. And so I'll give that Argentina Federation a break in terms of who they chose to be the rival for this game. I suppose that their point is, it's not so much about the rival, as it is about celebrating the United Messi. My argument, as I just said before, they had a chance to make this a real grand occasion and it just feels like it's grand for Messi. It's grand for the people of the stadium. The occasion itself doesn't seem to be completed by the team that you're playing against. That doesn't seem to match the greatness of that they're trying to celebrate and they're paying tribute to. All right, well, let's talk bigger picture now, because it's a question that, of course, we've had to ask a couple of times over the last couple of years, and that is, what does Argentina look like after Messi? So who gets the keys to that position as a Juliana Alvarez or Nicol Paz? Is there another option? It's not only a ball, really. How does Argentina change? Well, the problem is that there's going to be a transition, and usually we think of transitions as processes that happen over, I don't know, a period of a few months. In this case, it's a transition that is going to happen over a period of years, years. Generations. Years. Argentina is going to have to turn over this generation and then get into the next one and then see what they have in that next generation. And that may not be it either, and they may turn it over again and then see what they have. We are talking, I just mentioned, potentially the greatest player of all time, of all time. And so, who are you going to hand the keys to? Well, you may hand the keys to somebody, but that's just a stopgap. Nicol Paz is a good player, but you don't want to be the guy that follows an enemy, because he's just not that guy. Julian Alvarez doesn't play the position to even put them on the screen. They would be a mistake. We made a mistake. Production-wise, we made a mistake. Julian, okay, for the producer. While I'm talking and giving you an answer, don't give me the explanation that I already know. Julian Alvarez is not on the table and he won't be giving the keys. He will not be giving the keys. You put them there as an option. You put them there as an option. That option is wrong. And you know it's wrong. Lord, have mercy. If you said, I just told you, I just told you that the generation is going to turn over. I'm talking to the producer. You're talking to me. You're the Lord, have mercy. Did I just answer your question? I did. So hard. What's the keys for you? No, we're going to end with that conversation. No, and listen. Because I've got to look somewhere. I would say it's never going to happen. I've seen it happen. And I've seen it happen with this nationality, with this nation. And that's the thing. Argentina turns out players like it's their business because it is their business. This is what they do. When Diego Armando Maradona left, people said you will never see another left-footed player like him in this world. And yet you saw another left-footed like him and even better in Argentina. It just came generations after. And even with that player, Argentina suffered. So success isn't guaranteed. It's not immediate. This Argentine national team went decades without a Copa America. They went decades suffering while Brazil, their arch nemesis, one world cups. I'm not saying they're not going to find another Messi. Because I've already seen them find another Maradona. Maybe they'll find somebody better. But man, if they can find somebody better, imagine what that player is going to be. There's nobody right now. And that's okay. The same way it was okay when there was nobody after Maradona. It doesn't have to be like for like. They just don't have the same player with that aura, with that meaning to world football. It has nothing to do with the position. It's got to do with what the player means to world football. They don't have anybody even close. Niko Paz is a bet for the future for Argentina. Yeah. But he's a blip in the radar for the rest of the world. And that's a reality. Juliana Álvarez, his own club team doesn't want him at the moment. And whatever team he's been on, he's never really been that man. You better not argue against this guy because then the producer gets upset. Really been that man. Laura, mercy. So I would argue it's okay not to have that guy right now. If you're Argentina, you may have that guy in the future. The point is, they're not just going to find them in a couple of months. Yeah. It's going to take time. It may not even be my lifetime. The way it's going with this producer getting me on subsets as I am, I may not make it past this show. But the truth of matter is it's generational. You mentioned Maradona from Maradona to Messi. A lot of good players. A lot of good players, but not that left. Exactly. And a lot of years went by. Yeah. And a lot of difficult years for Argentina by their standards. So it's not going to happen right away. And if you're thinking it's going to happen right away with this two guys, you're wrong. Forget about it. All right. Where should we watch it? Should we have a wash party? Some empanadas, some mate. What's that? What's that? Benina. Benina Argentina. Benina Argentina. What about this one? Brazil are also in action with Carlo Ancielotti in this international break. They're going up against Australia. But a lot of questions still remain for Brazil after what was a very, very disappointing World Cup for them. Let's hear from Carlo Ancielotti on the current form of a red hot Rafinha and Vinny Jr. The moment of the two is different. Obviously, the Rafinha is doing something spectacular in a position that is not. It's not his, but it seems to be his. It's also in this one. Vinny can be that it's not now in his greatest moment. Let's convince him that we have two guys who are going to be fundamental players for the future. We're a very important player for the region. I love, and I love, with a person, Ancielotti's Portuguese. He's Spanish, Italian, all grown into one. It's Italian. Man, he's got it. He's got it on. He's got it on. All right. Well, like I said, a lot of eyes on Brazil, especially in this first international window after what was a very disappointing World Cup. Alebot Rafinha is in such hot form. We absolutely love watching him on La Liga. So does his current form change how Carlo Ancielotti at least approaches this window? Well, I have to imagine that if you're Carlo Ancielotti, and I think he hinted at it there, in which he said, well, it's kind of playing his position. That wasn't his position, but apparently it's his position, which then tells me, that for Brazil, he may just play in that very same position. But as we have discussed in this show in the past, is the players around Rafinha that are not quite to the same level as the players that he has around him in Barcelona. How does that affect his performance with the national team? We'll just have to wait and see. I'll ask Hercules a question. Am I allowed to ask a question? Of course. Really? Oh. What do you think is in a better position now, where we are right now? Brazil or Argentina? Oh. I don't know if I was allowed to ask questions, but you know, there you go. Oh, that's a great question. If you were given the opportunity to take over one of these teams. Attacking-wise, I would say Brazil. But defensively, how do you still take Brazil? You know what, it's probably Brazil, because if I look at the outside backs for Argentina, nobody really leaves me the impression that they're good enough, or they'll be good enough in the future. Just in terms of player personnel, I would go Brazil right now. That's actually a very interesting question. But they've given me nothing collectively. So are you taking Brazil then? No, no, no. I'm only taking them because of what it says on paper, who's got more material to work with. Not the sensation they've given me collectively. Well, I would take Brazil as well, and I would take Brazil not necessarily because of Brazil themselves. I would take Brazil because there is no messy factor without Argentina going forward. And as it pertains to Brazil, I think there is potential here. Oh, yeah. I think there is something here. But it is a responsibility of Caroncelotti and his players, for that matter, to take the next step, the next evolution of this national team. I think long gone are the days of Brazil, as we used to think of them, but they can be better than one they have been. And this team should be better than one it has been. And while offensively, I agree with what you're saying, that this is a team that, on paper, should be far more dynamic than what it is. A player like Rafinha hasn't always been the sort of performer that you would expect him to be with a national team. Yeah. Bit of the same thing. And you can have that conversation about many players. Midfield. Well, that's the only line that I would take Argentina. I'm thinking about it right now. That's the only line that I would lean. Argentina would be the midfield line. That's the only line. Well, well, there is, I think, potential for this Brazilian national team, but everybody, not just one or two players, not just Rafinha, not just Vinnie, Bruno Guimarais, he has to take his game to a different level with the national team. But I do think if the conversation were between Brazil and Argentina going forward, you take Messi out of the picture, it becomes very much for me. Brazil should be your number one pick there. Caronchelo is going to have to get a lot out of the team which he hasn't so far. I have to get a lot out of Vinnie Jr. as well. Which he hasn't. Big. So far. Which is a bit surprising. He had a good World Cup. That's the thing. When Ale was saying about Brazil and in Rafinha, not delivering Vinnie Jr. That is all true. The one player who stepped it up, Rafinha got injured in the World Cup, was Vinnie Jr. He had his moments. But you know what I would say to that? Hercules said, yes. He had moments in the World Cup. But when he came to the match against Norway, the concerning part for me was, once Caronchelo put Neymar on the field, Vinnie Jr. was no longer the Vinnie Jr. that he had been early in the competition. He deferred to Neymar. He wasn't the only one. The rest of Brazil also deferred to Neymar. And in doing that, I didn't like that from Vinnie's perspective because it's almost as if you're the guy you take us forward. Instead of saying, no, no, I'm the guy, and I'm going to carry you with me. And we're going to be better because we're both on the field. The fact that he then threw himself to the left hand side and allowed Neymar to go and get touches on the ball, didn't like that at all. All right. Well, let's remind you that Rafinha is definitely in red-hot form. We're going to hope that he continues that throughout this international break. And even when he's back in La Liga, shooting up for Hansi Flikambar, Salona del Vin Action against Hitafi, that is Saturday, October 10, 12, 30pm Eastern time on the ESPNF and ESPN Deportes. Maybe Ellen, I will be on that. Maybe. I think I'm calling that game, actually. Oh, no. Maybe that. All right. So I suppose the two teams from the Americas have had to hold big fat elves in what is also a new era with new managers. Now, in this one, let's take a new take on the managers because there's been a lot of new managers around the world, not just for our America's teams, but as well in European teams and whatnot. Ale, what are your takes on the new managers? Which one stands out to you? Well, I had mentioned that I thought Uruguay picking Diego Forlan was some special. And not in a good way. This has car crash in La Lovra. But I'm going to move past that because... Well, but you know how these things work out. Yes, I do. It's like, oh, well, we didn't find anybody else. So let's just keep this guy. He knows what they we want, right? Okay. How about Uruguay club in Germany? I think in Uruguay club, we have a guy who at the club level and dealing with his group of players on a daily basis, he was able to create an environment and an energy and an intensity and an urgency about his teams that played with that sort of speed, with play, with that sort of passion. But you do that on a daily basis. How do you recreate that with a national team? A group of players that only comes together every two or three months, and then you have to somehow manufacture this feeling. Manufacture is this group of players that somehow have to find that intensity, that urgency, that that care for each other, that love for each other, that doesn't mean that they're hugging each other in the locker room. It means that they're running for each other and supporting each other on the field. And on top of all that, besides all of that, that I think it's a challenge altogether, the talent level for Germany is not as high as it has been in the past. And when I say in the past, we have to go all the way back, all the way back to 2014 when they won the World Cup. Since then, it's been a steady decline by Germany. And so here is your game club, trying to change the mentality and the identity of this German national team. He's going to be really interested to see whether he's going to have that kind of impact. Yeah. Yeah. Xavier Nandes. If you know Xavier Nandes and where he came from, Barcelona, and the type of football he played as a player, and what he tried doing in his first season, and who he is, it kind of makes sense that he would go the Dutch route. And this is the most anti-dutch national team that we've ever seen. That was Ronald Cummins' national team. Yeah. They were pragmatic. They were a team that was very frigid, that got vertical at times of their course. It's a team that was unlike any other Dutch national team that we've ever seen. Very anti-Johan Cruyff, which is total football, La Naranca mecanica. So what do they do? They go out and get a guy who's experienced that total football, the Johan Cruyff with Barcelona. And they're hoping he can bring back some of that. There is no more underachiever in world football than the Dutch national team. In its history. It's a sleeping giant. And it's a team that's always pride themselves on playing a certain brand of football. That went out the window with Ronald Cummins. And with Xavier Nandis, despite what his last season in Barcelona may have looked like, this is a coach that could bring that back. And you saw a little bit of it today when they played Germany, a little bit of how they tried building out of the back, a little bit of how they tried going at speed, winning the ball back. And a tie made this Dutch national team look fun to watch, which is what they've always been at least fun to watch. They weren't that under Ronald Cummins. No. Xavier Nandis, the question of this is, which team will change the most? There's no more drastic change than being pragmatic, defensive, to going back to who you were at heart, which is total football, high-volume football, a football that is more of the Barcelona way than any other national team, Suns, Spain. Ah, the Dutch always the bridesmaid never the bride. I know what that's like. Let's move on. Oh. Really went for it. Really? Wow. It's convenient that these two chose Jürgen Klopp and Xavier Nandis because they're two new countries went in action here from a Dutch corner in the 13th minute. That is when the Netherlands thought they had a goal, but after a VAR review... I can see why it's called. I can see why it's called. I don't agree with it, Ali. Are you asking for my opinion? Yeah. Is that you setting it up? Uh-oh. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no.