Tactical Systems vs. Motivational Rhetoric: An Analytical Breakdown of TSS MLS Update

Hello everybody and welcome to the Total Soccer Show. My name is Taylor Rockwell. I said at this time I didn't say it the first time, which is why we're redoing the introduction. What is it Tuesday, which means it's time to do some MLS updating here with me to do so. A man who has to my knowledge, never been caught a little boy by Phil Neville. It's Joe Lowry. Hello, Joe. I'm trying to think all my interactions with Phil Neville. No, he always calls me big boy for some reason, which I thought was great boy. But yeah, some of the acts that maybe let them get away with it. I actually don't know the quote to your referencing Taylor or the situation that you're referencing or maybe this just came from the depths of your mind and either way, I'm into it. Oh, it sits referencing something pretty directly. We will probably talk about it when we talk about Portland's lost of Vancouver. All right. Before we do that, we should introduce our fellow co-host, USL's greatest fan or nuisance depending on your perspective. It's Jeff Reuter. Hello, Jeff. Or at least the media member who's paid attention to it the longest. Maybe. We'll say it this way. It's been a decade since I've started covering the lower leaks of USL here more than a decade. Like that is that snuck up quick. Yes. It tends to do that. Doesn't it? It's a little frightening. Time does that. Time has a way. Yeah. And what is the subject of your latest coverage? Yeah. So since we last spoke on Tuesday, I've had two pieces now come up on the Guardian about the USL War. I asked about the first one. Which one would you like to hear about? Go ahead. Do about. Today's piece is looking at the broader structure of it. And so this is some context. This is reporting that's been in the works for multiple weeks now. Looking heavily at reporting done by people like John Morrissey and Colton Koresky at Backheeled Shadow Jolary as well, because you keep the plate spinning over there. And then also reporting from elsewhere, public documents, all these sorts of things to just look at the structure into which the USL is trying to introduce promotion and relegation and whether or not it's stable enough to handle the jeopardy operationally that its clubs will incur in such a format. And then last week, looking at the strike, as listeners might know, the USL players in the championship are currently looking for a new CBA, collective bargaining agreement. And the season started with every game, unless I'm missing any exceptions, starting with the first minute, every player, all 22 on the field, standing with their hands behind their backs in the ball sitting in the center circle for 60 seconds before it was kicked in earnest. So, keep your eyes on that one. The news from last week was that the USL had sent out a handy FAQ's document to every player in the championship with guidance on how to cross a picket line, which is a choice. Yeah, that's certainly an approach to handling frustrated players. Was that well received that email? One, there's a great quote from one championship player that I included on the Guardian that I will omit from the audio of this. But hogwash would be a really worthy synonym, I would say, for how they viewed it. That's the first usage of hogwash, at least of the new year, and we are, we are into it so far. That might be the first hogwash that I can recall. So well done, Geoffrooter, breaking stories and breaking hogwash glass ceilings nicely done. Let's talk about some MLS from the weekend, and let's start with Portland's 4-1 loss to Vancouver or Vancouver's win over Portland, depending on how you want to look at it. That would be the game that resulted in Phil Neville's post match press conference in which he said, basically that his players played like little boys that they need to play against men. You must play like men, not like little boys. Then he really emphasized, and I'm not talking about our young players here or something along those lines. So he wasn't fully critiquing the teenagers that played in this game, maybe more so the season professionals who didn't look quite like season professionals. We'll talk about Portland later, because they weren't quite as good as Vancouver, Joe, who were pretty much excellent in this game from start to finish. The thing that continues to stand out to me about Vancouver, and this has really been true since the Espersorance that took over ahead of last season, is that they're just good at everything. Yep. And I don't think there are very many teams in MLS that you can say that about. So they are a capable team with the ball. They have ideas and build up. They are able to move past you in your press, and they did that in this game. Portland tried to press the man-to-man, and they had a couple of high ball wins at the timbers, but really, Vancouver just turned that press against them over and over again in this game. So they can build up. They can progress to the final third, and then the final third. They create chances. They have really, really dangerous players when it comes to Thomas Muller, when it comes to their wingers, Azy Jackson's looking quite good over on that left side, which I didn't really expect. They have these quick twitch, Kevin DeBroina-esque balls. I honestly don't think that's a huge guys' duration. I'd rather have DeBroina serving the ball in, but that's Baraltor's thing, right? He tries really hard, and he can hit that one ball, and he does it very, very well. They have Baraltor hitting those quick twitch, out swinging balls from the right half space into the box, and Brian White scores one of those goals. They just have so much variety in the final third when it comes to creating chances, and actually getting goals on the board. Then defensively, they're dogs, man, and I can understand why Phil Neville would feel the need to make that quote about his player disparaging them, because there was one team in this game who was really committed in playing together and united, and it was in the timbers. They have that effort in the counter press. They can press effectively, although there's really no reason to press the timbers, because they're just going to play the ball long. They can buckle down and defend in a mid-block and be committed in that way, and they did that to close out this game, because they had a big lead for most of this match, certainly for most of the second half. They just don't have obvious holes. If there's a hole, it's that maybe they don't have quite enough top-end talent to compete with the best of the best. I don't even really believe that in my heart of hearts. I know I said last week that I think LAFC are the best team in the West, and I still believe that. But, man, Vancouver are really, really good, and it is difficult to actually pick nets when it comes to this team. I won't be picking nets. I'll instead be heaping praise, because you mentioned him already. I want to go back to him. Seb Berhalter has a role in all four Vancouver goals, I believe, some more than others, but has the most touches, 13 passes into the final third, and a lung-busting tackle at the very end when he sprints all the way back, puts in the challenge, steps over the player. How good has he been, Joe? Are we seeing improvement from him from last season? I think maybe we are. I think we're seeing him looking more comfortable and confident, and it looks to me like he is being a bit more assertive, both on and off the ball. What I will say is we're still seeing Seb Berhalter as a sort of a fringe national team player. That sequence that you talked about, it starts with him losing the ball, because he's not quite aware of what's around him. It's a great, it's sort of like a Wayne Rooney light tackle, you know, that luchero moment, and it does, it does make me think about that sequence when I watch this place. I know exactly what you're talking about, but he still is just a little messy, right, on the ball. I don't know if that's going to keep him off of a World Cup roster, but I do think that's going to keep him out of being a key player, like a mainstay in the starting 11 for the US at this tournament, and certainly moving forward. But he's a really good MLS player, and that is part of what Vancouver have done so well is they've managed to find some of these guys, and now, yes, for Sorenson is platforming them to be very good. And Jeff, when you have players like AZ Jackson coming back from Poland after he kind of washed out a little bit of Major League Soccer, Wilfer Nancey didn't, didn't quite have the same impact on him. You have Tate Johnson, who's a super draft pick starting at left back in this game, looking perfectly capable. You have Ralph Priso playing at center back, and it looks like he's very, very much fit for that spot. You have a bod wall who's this 19 year old Canadian who's now a starting player, I guess, or at least it's been starting games earlier in the season in that right half space, and he looks like a starting level player. There just aren't holes in this team. They're managing to turn non-starting players in the starters, and all of them have a clear idea and understanding of how they want to play, and man, the contrast between that and the Portland Timbers was very sharp in this game. Yeah, and it's something that the White Caps have done very well under Axel Schuster is sort of, believe in their own recruitment process. And I think what I mean by that is that so often you'll see a team, if a player isn't acclimating, if the Goss theorem didn't come true in their second season, their first full season after they arrived in the summer, things aren't coming together well. They're going to suddenly fidget, and they'll say, okay, in the winter we need to get somebody else in the off season, or, okay, this American Canadian domestic player isn't working in this area. I guess that's where we're spending our time this year to bring in a 28 year old veteran from France or something, right? And I think that the White Caps have done really well to resist that urge with some players that they saw as having serious upside, you know, with Brian White, for example, who, I know we keep saying it, we need to keep saying it, there is no player who has been more worthy of wearing a mouthguard when we play soccer in 2026 than Brian White. Absolutely love the message it sends. And it manifests really well, like his two goals in this game. Credible. Mouthguard goals. Yeah. But their mouthguard goals are exactly, right? And that's the sort of thing where like, you know, maybe you saw that in New York, but you certainly see it now in Vancouver with much more regularity, which makes it easier to see how maybe he is the break class in case of emergency option for the strikers, if you're Mauricio Puccettino and you're just saying, Hey, that's the guy at least I know is going to press and give everything at this tournament. And that's going to play well as we're trying to close games. Tristan Blackman, when you look at him, you know, kind of rounding into being a more consistent center back. Joe, you mentioned a few people who are coming in and stepping up and stepping in to roles that were seeded by players, leaving like Ali Ahmed, right, who went to Norwich and now you've got, but while he's taking a lot of those minutes, right, like that is something we talked about a lot with Nazi's crew. And in terms of burr halter, I actually think that sequence kind of made him look more like a world cup player to me, you know, when we talk about that, because I think that's so often when you see a player make that turnover, they panic and either they're going to make a really bad foul soon after that then jeopardizes them for the rest of the game, maybe less of an issue, latent games, or hope that their teammates have them and then try to be available for an outlet on a counter so that they can save face, right? Like I think that that's something you would have seen like a unit smuser, maybe a young Western mechanic do before he picked up all the event as needs me to play everywhere anyway. I should be aware of where to do all over the field that he has now. But with burr halter to be able to track back, make that tackle, get the ball back and kind of clean up his own mess, I don't know. I think that that is like a rare skill set mentality, latent game where even if we're looking at burr halter as probably a backup realistically for a world cup roster, like I think that that is, that's a sequence that makes me think that he was, he's built for that sort of moment. Joe, how many of the three fringe usmeteers would you like to see in the squad for the March friendly? You can say none. You could say all three. You could say four and even be more of a rebel who, sorry, who are the fringe usmeteers? I would say burr halter, Brian White and Justin Blackburn. Ah, I see. Probably one of them. I would say burr halter, although I'd have to actually map it out. Zero or one, I think would be my answer. I think, I think burr halter would be a totally logical inclusion. I'm not going to be sad if he's not there, right? That sounds a bit cold, but that's kind of how I feel about this. I mean, that Vancouver have these guys in this team is a testament to their quality, right? That they have these players that are very much flirting with the edges of the national team pool and maybe doing something more than that. Yeah, I mean, this, this team is exactly what they were when last season ended, which is a huge compliment. They have lost pieces and they don't look worse. If you're counting Haji Wright as a striker, which you might not be, would you have Brian White, is he like fifth on the depth chart? That's probably right where I'd have him. I mean, I'd have Balligan won. I would have Peppy and Azumon probably as my next two, Haji Wright, four and Brian White five and then Josh, Sergeant six, until he proves me wrong. I don't know if Jeff is that way off. No, that's about where I'd land, too. And again, Taylor, it's a matter of whether or not you're actually going to play Haji Wright. I like what he brings cutting in from the left to a point where I actually think that is a strength, right? It gives a very different look and attack and dimensionality. So if you bring four strikers, I do agree, though, Haji Mang's form right now with Derby County is just kind of irrepressible and he's rounded out his skill set in a way that we maybe didn't see with Charlotte. I know that's a little beside the point here, but you, you followed Patrick Haji Mang if you're listening to this, right? So yeah, but still either way, the fact that we're having this conversation and it's Brian White who looks like the one who is maybe the domestic striker and not Brandon Vasquez granted injury, but you know, when he signed at the time, I think that transfer fee suggested he should be the one in this position, not Brian White. Can I, can I do my timbers, but now I was going to say first, I'm glad I've been able to turn this discussion of a Canadian team into a U.S. M.T. discussion. Yeah, they love that very much on brand for me. Before you do, Josh, I just want to say I have so enjoyed everything Vancouver this season. They have been a team that have become kind of a point in viewing. There may be one of four or five teams that I think if I see them playing, I will watch them first. I will watch their highlights first, whatever it might be. They're just really fun. I heard everything you said about how strong they are across the board. And then just the town was muller of it all. I enjoyed him telling them to tone it down for their, for their fourth goal. He just seems like he's been there before. He's a veteran leader. The chemistry is strong. The vibes are good. Good times for Vancouver. Now Joe, less so for Portland. Yeah, Portland missing a lot of pieces in this game, first of all. So they're missing Cole Bassett and their double pivot. They've got another midfield signing on the way from Puma and he's not in the team just yet. They're still missing David Acosta as he recovers from that shoulder injury. So they're missing three starters plus in this game, really. Man, they looked rough. Even with that caveat and that's a huge caveat, right? So I'm not, I'm withholding my formal like in pen judgment on the Portland timbers for another couple of months until we see that all together at the same time. We've got a lot of data on what this, this net grab a boy, Phil Neville Portland timbers team is. And there's a, there's a reason that when we put together for back yield, when we put together our season predictions, the number of us that write for the site, one of the questions was who's on the hottest seat entering into the year. And I put net grab a boy who's the CSO of this team at Phil Neville. Who's the coach of this team? I think Phil Neville is justified in some of his comments, although I would not choose to make those comments about my players post game, but I can understand sort of where he's coming from. He should not come to the moment at the same time. I think if Phil Neville believes that just turning up the effort dial to eight out of 10 or 10 out of 10 even, if he thinks that's enough for this team to be good and to be able to beat the white caps, I just don't agree with that. This team just doesn't have clear ideas. Their new idea it seems to be is pressing more aggressively and going higher with that land of confrontation and being more man to man. Good teams both of the end of last season and now the start of this season are ripping that press apart. And in possession, they just don't have ideas. They don't have clear structures in terms of how they're going to move the ball and create chances. They don't have that. And I don't think Neville is right to think if this is really what he believes that effort is what is needed to make this team great. I think effort is needed and a lot more is also needed. So maybe some of that is talent and that's the that's the missing piece and all the pieces that they're missing right now are going to change this team. I'm skeptical about that, but leaving the door cracked for it. So again, this is not my final judgment on Portland, but man, they just do not look like a serious contender like at all. And they didn't come into the season and they just don't know. No. And they look so far behind Seattle and Vancouver, which is which is maybe the like general litmus test is that for so long, they at least were one or two of that trio, right? And they've just fallen off of that in such a dramatic way. And Neville is building a bit of a pension for blaming his players and throwing them under the bus whenever results like these happen, right? I think that if we went back to a lot of their games where they lost by two, three, four, five goals, you know, it will be a lot of where was the effort? Where was the heart? Where was the hustle, right? A lot of that sort of messaging after games. And I even remember, this isn't just because they're compatriots, but like when Adrian Heath was talking about what he had learned from Orlando when he came to Minnesota, again, a decade ago now, his whole thing was like, hey, I was too naive. I was trusting too much that you could just give Kaka the ball and teams could move around them and guys could just kind of figure it out and play hard and you could win in this league. And obviously you need more than that. And so you have to incorporate more of that structure. And I just haven't really seen evidence that Phil Neville is putting in that sort of like high level work where when we talk about the White Caps, there's a system of course. There's a off-ball movements you need to master and memorize and these sorts of things. I get that. But also there's just this general ethos of we are going to control games and we're not going to let them take that control away. We're going to kind of move the field and suffocate it in a way that makes it better for us to do what we want to do and put us in the spots and the opponent can try to deal with it. So don't know if I've ever really seen a Phil Neville team come into a game wanting to execute something so concretely as a lot of the opponents that are coming up against. And so like Jody your point like we don't have enough evidence this season but we do have a lot of evidence if you're looking across Portland and even that like pre-messy Miami era. And that's where then when when the mantra is hey the players need to play harder. Hey they look like kids never mind our one goal came from an 18 year old called up from the timbers to like it's just come on man. I don't know. It's unserious. It's not much of a reflective thought and I can't imagine playing in a locker room like that frankly if that's what the messaging is publicly I wonder what it is privately. I really do. Well Joe's giving them three months was it Joe? Maybe maybe two but really just let's see that the dudes are going to be starting with this team back and then and then I'll really feel bad about timbers and then there'll be men and not boys says that's right. Let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll talk about much much much much more major league soccer back very soon. Welcome back everybody. We've talked Vancouver Portland in some level of depth. Let's see how quickly we can get through the 6,000 other games that happened this weekend a standard MLS late in fact one fewer than normal with the refs game being postponed. Still feels like a lot but let's dive in NYCFC five Orlando city nil. I'm going to say not the ideal score line if you're an Orlando supporter big if true. Jeff for you who is New York's or NYCFC I forget where I'm supposed to be on these things. Who is their most important player right now and is it Keaton Parks? I think it's Keaton Parks and I think it's just in the sense that when Keaton Parks is cooking like the team just looked that much better in terms of like who's going to be available for the last 12 months unfortunately for reasons out of Keaton Parks control because he has recurring you know blood flow issues that have caused him a significant time like Nico Fernandez Mercado also looks awesome like I think that he's doing really well to integrate into MLS's general flow and it looks like a player who's really up for it and so that was good recruitment but Keaton Parks man like there is a timeline where we're talking about parks in the same way we talked about Burr Holter and segment one where he has been able to play more regularly and he has a skill set and a physique it should be said that is just so rare for a central midfielder with the finesse and the movement he just kind of glides around the field in a way that we also only really talk about with Ricky Pooge when he's healthy and I think that this was one of those games where look the game didn't even really establish into anything credible before it completely fell apart Maxine Kropow you know collects the ball just outside of the box not supposed to do that you know it's one of those things where it's like you wish the gloves were magnets like like a mission impossible gadget or whatever and then they just couldn't catch the ball or hold the ball when you leave the box like that's an innovation I think it's I know right like that solves a lot of these issues Tim Howard would agree I think it happened to him once in his MLS career too but no it happened to Maxine as well see so those were combining us in Canada finally peace bridge at last our goalkeepers will handle the ball so that's a red card and then Orlando just panic stations kind of in its five goals later and it's rough but Keaton Parks man awesome game for Keaton Parks so glad to see him back Joe was you other praise NYCFC or would you rather I don't know poor gas on the dumpster fire that is Orlando more the second thing I will say it is it's a crime that Keaton Parks has won the USMZ cap and not more than that I'm just gonna say that that that Bolivia friendly in 2018 is all we've gotten of Keaton Parks and red white and blue and that makes me sick because the dude is amazing is it just it is just fitness and injuries right I mean no I mean Barathe had lots of chances to calm up and just didn't do it so I mean Potschino has now had opportunities to do the same although maybe maybe not maybe that's unfair I have to go back and look at the timeline but no to answer a question that's not that's not all it's been on the on this games front I don't I really don't think we can credibly take a lot from NYCFC it's great that they're getting results it's wild that they played three games and each one of those games has involved a red card I believe at this stage of the season I can't remember the Galaxy game but the Philly game did this game did as well these are like huge momentum shifting kind of of moments say the Galaxy game had a red card also that was the garsest one so I still don't really know what to make of NYCFC I still think they're gonna be good not great but but I don't know we're just gonna have to wait and see on the Orlando front there's only so much we can take away from them in this game also because Cray Poe just ruined it right but which happens some people are fallible but I mean that's what happened but for them Oscar Brea is searching for answers right now and he kind of needs to be how do we know that well we know that because he's used a different setup in each of the three games and in this game he used a setup that I'd never seen him use before certainly not in Orlando maybe a previous stops in MLS he uses basically a 352 in every phase and it's Oheda and Pasalich up top is a front two there's no true nine in the team and then it's Ivan Angulo as a member of the midfield three he's sort of the left he's in most advance of the three but he really is sort of playing as a free eight and then you have wingbacks going up and down both sides although mostly down as it hasn't turned out but really peria is just throwing stuff at the at the board and trying to see what sticks and I have some sympathy for him because this roster is a little bit barren right now when it comes to injuries in central midfield especially you're struggling but also at center back you're missing Robin Jansen and it feels like maybe there's too much on Robin Jansen shoulders right now a huge part of your business this winter was going and getting three highly rated U22s from Brazil but we know that for a new 22 initiative signings despite our best efforts in scouting departments really don't tend to be all that successful not that Orlando won't hit on these guys but especially it from the opening stages it's going to take time for them to bet in and so now a sudden your spine is just shambles it's Crepoe and goal who you didn't really want because you want to Carlos Coronel and then he left you at the altar for Brazil so you end up with Crepoe not the had to sign him but he's not been a very good MLS goalkeeper and has been not having a hard time holding down a starting job your center back position is is sort of in shambles your double pivot is in shambles and you're not even in a double pivot anymore and it's just not a good team right now with tactically they don't have answers personnel wise they're not impressive or Orlando had a lot of turnover from last year to this year but they're they're really kind of spinning trying to gain traction more than I thought they would be even after all that turnover obviously Antoine Griezmann would not have fixed all of these issues because they are myriad and several it does seem like he would have given them enough sort of credibility and enough coverage to paper over some of them and in that way do we feel like the pursuit of him which seems to be increasingly like accurately titled the failed pursuit of him how big of a problem is that going to be do we think as we have what 16 days left in the primary transfer window doesn't seem like he's coming anytime soon and it doesn't seem like they have a ton of obvious replacements lined up yeah go Jeff yeah I mean like it's one of those where when you're all in for a player they're they're kind of knock on moves you're waiting to make because you want to make sure you're making those moves with that centerpiece in mind right and I think like Toronto's another example of it that maybe we saw this winter to a different scale with Josh Sargent right where that at least they knew that they had the interest of the player and the determination of the player to get there in this window however it had to happen um and and that assurance was never really part of this with Griesman right they had his his discovery rights they had the ability to negotiate with him but Diego Simeone suddenly wasn't ready to part with him right and suddenly is reincorporating him into his rotation more than he was and and is getting good performances and then they advanced in the Copa Del Rey and doesn't want to abandon that run so close to the end because he is such a netletty man at heart like I totally get it but now if you're Orlando you're watching it's just like okay well then maybe we missed on two domestic free agents that we could have brought in who would have really raised the floor of our performances maybe we would have signed um our ideal Alex Freeman replacement right if we'd known that we could just apportion this part part of our salary budget and our general resources towards that role rather than needing it to fortify the midfield around Griesman whatever the case may be it just I agree with Joe like it just looks like they don't really have the horses right now to run this race and um that's pretty worrying when you're at this point so close to the end of the window and and guess the first part of the season before the summer window is shorter than usual but it's still a lot of faith in guys coming in like day one of that window and hitting the ground running yeah it does it does sound like the Griesman deal is not totally off the table it sounds like it's not going to happen this window but it could happen in the summer though Orlando I'm sure we'll also look at other players between now and then I don't know maybe this is a bad take I think you you pretty much sacrifice your season for the chance to get Griesman if you're Orlando right I mean I don't think you do that if you're LAFC or Miami or some of these other teams but I think if you're Orlando and you want to take a big swing and you think Griesman's interested in coming to you and you're probably not really in the trophy combo without him I think you just hold off a little bit and wait and this is one of the things that could happen when you're going for a player of that caliber but I don't I don't begrudge Orlando for how they've operated on the Griesman front and I still think it very much could happen and if it does the pain of today is going to be worth the joy of tomorrow for sure Joe you broke up there a little bit it's ended like you said sign name are is what I'm hearing sign name are instead okay cool that's a cool that's right that's a browser stone do it Joe Joe has solved problems nicely done Joe should we spend some time giving some love to David Martinez Mr. Lowry oh yeah I would love to I think I gave up on David Martinez too early I guess I don't I don't know if I ever truly gave up on him but I was so high on him for the first two seasons that he was in LA 19 year old Venezuelan attacker he comes in and seats run below just doesn't give him a whole lot of leash he kind of starts every other game last year maybe a little less than that but looks really good when he's on the field but just doesn't do a whole lot in terms of getting into the lineup week after week after week I put out on social media that if all Mark dos Santos said to John Thornton and whoever else is in that interview at LAFC about the head coaching job if all he said was that hey I'm going to start David Martinez in every game he deserved the job because Martinez is transformationally talented and there are so few players in this entire league of any age for a teenager otherwise doesn't matter there's so few players in this league who can actually draw even just a sliver of attention of the opposing defense away from two of the biggest stars MLS has ever seen in Denny Boonga and Sunhum Min David Martinez is one of those players I'm not being hyperbolic listener if you have not watched Evan Martinez just do it or just watch his goal from this game against Dallas it's the only goal of the game it's a one-to-one for LAFC it's a Martinez banger from distance but he has other great moments in this game as well where he's receiving passes in midfield and combining with Denny Boonga and clipping balls into the box for Boonga to take a shot I mean he is just complete he's quicker than than I thought he was he's trying harder defensively which I have to imagine was a huge part of the problem for Trondolo maybe there are other issues as well but Trondolo is not a he's not dumb dumb right like he he wants to get good players on the field so I assume there was other things going on there but maybe a new voice in the locker room has helped David Martinez and helped his progression and man he is unbelievably good we talked on this show about Jacob Schafelberg signing for LAFC of the offseason he's been injured they've missed him at all they truly have not missed him any he is David Martinez is that guy he should start every game that matters for LAFC this year I'm in love with him and this LAFC team is more fun for having him you know you know who he's in love with Joe this still confuses me for everything you've said which is correct who did he go immediately hug and celebrate with if you're scoring that screamer oh oh I don't know you know who was there Steve Trondolo he's there he went out Steve Trondolo I did not really and it was like I knew I knew you could do it you knew I could do it like I don't but maybe it was a spite hug that could also maybe it's like you seem a little bit of space to realize that you did appreciate the other person that they were good for you even though even though there was like some frustration when they were around I saw that the camera pan to Trondolo during the game we'll just sick like I don't know it's pretty cool if you're Steve Trondolo just hanging around getting a watch this team that you still care about in some way there's still a sort of shroud of mystery around his exit and all that stuff but it's awesome that he was there and I did not see that that Martinez moment that makes we're really happy to I'm glad for the transformationally talented that is well said it's a very good branding statement for him a one a win over Cincinnati as I suppose a very good branding statement for a Toronto team that certainly looked less hapless than last time we talked about them Joe are you are you liking what you're seeing from them are you liking their bill the head of Josh sergeant starting to get minutes I think this team looks more competent with every move that they're making so I apologize I don't have to say this person's name yet they just signed a center back from Brazil and and he immediately went into the starting lineup in this game and so now all of a sudden you've added walkers Zimmerman although he comes off of the head injury in this game and that that's a big concern given Zimmerman's history of head injuries so obviously we want we want best for Zimmerman there but they they've added quality in the middle of the back line they've added talent in central midfield over the last couple of transfer windows although they need more certainly in that fades in that part of the field and then they've added in the attack in a real way when you think about Georgie now you think about Daniel shallowy who's a competent starting level MLS attacker and now sergeant in this game against Cincinnati they were missing sergeant Toronto because he's not I guess fully ramped up and ready to play games I think that'll happen soon and Cincinnati we're missing a vendor for the first 75 minutes of this game so basically both teams missing the player that we expect to be their best player maybe you could make a Georgie shop for Toronto but I think we're in the ballpark that this game was basically dead even for Toronto on the road I think says a lot about their their ability to actually play real competent not embarrassing soccer and there's been some some blips even early on in the season in last year was a struggle for most of the year but I think their floor is being yanked up by this front office with the moves that they make I don't know that I would have made all these moves I definitely wouldn't have spent 20 million plus on Josh sergeant but do I think he's going to make this team better and are they already having some early signs of success I think so so I if I'm a Toronto fan I'm feeling better right now than I felt in a while that's still you know in context you're still not feeling as good as many many other fans of many teams in this league but on the Toronto side at least to this game I think there's reasons for positivity the floor metaphor makes sense but is also confusing one because I feel like if you're ripping up your floor something has gone wrong but I guess raising up the floor yeah poorly phrased you know ripping it up and it's somehow magically reassembling but six feet high I know that's how that's how demo works right I knew what you meant but even even knowing what you meant maybe it's the homeowner in me I was like oh no the river of the floor that's not good what water damage expensive it's gonna be messy what's the problem yeah that's that's poor on my speaking of expensive and messy Jeff FC Cincinnati rude yeah it's it's it's not you what started kind of expensive messy I guess it's no I mean like the it's it's not the start we expected from Cincinnati this year right and and I think maybe there's that point with when when you have a coach and a core that has been together as long as this group has there's there's a point where you kind of things just look a little stale and maybe that's how it feels right now when you watch Cincinnati and granted again they've been without a vander for all but like 15 minutes of their season so far and so much of the the dynamism that's introduced into their games comes from Evander and so you will notice his absence more than any other player like certainly more than any play that Toronto has like in terms of an equivalent but at the same point it I think it's just becoming easier to expect what you will get out of Cincinnati and I think that opponents are starting to find ways to neutralize that when you look at this result the week before granted they were on the road at Minnesota but I don't know Joe I just I think that there's a certain point where you look and say maybe they haven't evolved the project along with the league of round them as readily as other teams need to to be able to contend in those top four places every single year in their conference. Yeah I mean it seems like there is a disconnect between the kinds of players that they have maybe and how they're playing under Pat Noonan or that they just don't have the pieces to be a team that is actually dangerous with the ball and because the talent level they have and because of Evander I think they have to be a team that uses the ball a little bit and without Matt Miyazga especially in the back line do they have reliable ball progressers like Miles Robinson's good at a lot of things I don't think he's a plus on the ball necessarily then you look at the base admit field and well Bodo's not that player Buka is is a an okay progresser but I don't think he's exceptional at it by any means so you end up funneling a lot of play now through the wing backs which is good I think they've upgraded in that part of the field but Evander and Dan Kay we haven't even seen Evander as you said Jeff really they don't seem to have developed a great chemistry and it just feels disconnected to the point where I am I'm starting I'm not all the way there yet because we haven't seen Evander very much but I'm starting to worry a little bit about Pat Noonan in particular because I think the roster is good and talented I really do they're just not getting the kinds of performances that I think they probably should be out of this group and again it is early days but we had all of last season where Cincinnati scraped by they were on the right side of a lot of coin flips Nate Gilman was writing about that for his excellent newsletter for Cincinnati very good yeah folks should go read that one um like he described me this game as a coin flip against Toronto I think it was and Cincinnati came out of the wrong side of it and last year they basically didn't end up on the wrong they called it right basically every time and that's that's lucky they got lucky a lot last season I don't know if we're going to see that again I don't know if this group of players is being maximized and and Pat Noonan knows more about soccer forget it's more about soccer than I'll ever know but I I do sort of wonder if if he has the vision to sort of fix this team and and we're going to find out that's the nice thing is we're going to figure that out in the next couple of months but I I would I am on worry watch for Noonan I'm on worry watch for Cincinnati and I don't really know what's going to happen for them Jeff that was some emphatic nodding there are you joining Joe's worry watch that's a hard sentence to say we have a literal hitter watch yeah whoo somebody set for that I think look we're coming off of talking about Steve's run below and the like kind of crowded you know what happened there and I think we were having a lot of the same thoughts early last year before he announced he was leaving just in terms of does it look like they're evolving does it look too stale does it look like players are maybe a little too comfortable in their starting roles and then a little too resigned to being bench guys if they're not right like I'm worried too I think I'm also nodding because I hadn't really thought of the case of like is it time for a change for them in the same way that maybe Portland or even Orlando earlier in this segment but I mean fairs fair like this is not a team that is built to try to get sixth in its conference and then when it's home playoff game to force a third game and maximize revenue in that blah blah blah this is one that wants to win the shield this is one that wants to win the open cup the leagues cup MLS cup when they get there if they get there whenever they get there they'll get there someday and they don't look closer to that than they did two years ago and I think that that is generally the barometer you need to read closest in terms of your title readiness so one more question about Cincinnati before we go to break I don't want to misstate or mischaracterize so feel free to push back sure you were discussing like their lack of ball progressive progressors maybe due to some injury but also just like not having a ton in the team but then at the same time talking about how the squad is talented they could perform better than they are how do those two things kind of come together then if you're pat noon it if you don't have the ball progressors you might need to play a certain way how could they find success do you think yeah it's a it's a phenomenal question Taylor I think thank you the obvious thing for them to do one pre quiz point to you remember that for later in the week Friday is looking better and better I can't wait um I think you can be more transitional with this team and we've seen versions of pat noon in Chris Albright Cincinnati that were that I think that might be the recipe where you have really dangerous wing backs especially etch and decay on that right side he can be a real outlet for you you have Dan K and Evander who I think can play in transition I mean the timbers when Evander was around and having great seasons they weren't like mastering the ball that's a way for reason we've already talked about on this show so I think they can afford to be a bit more transitional and maybe that maximizes this team or maybe maybe the personnel needs to change right maybe the personnel needs to change whether that's in the summer window or how pat noon is is organizing the players that are actually seeing the field needs to change but I think you could see this team become a bit more direct and that could end up benefiting them who is the guy before luka or a jano on the shoot or a barrel I assume it's what you're talking about. Thank you yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah like there has always just been that like really good progressive wingback you know and like at times if the game if the team around him didn't go I was like okay is that too ambitious do you need to bring him in and really you just need a better support around him but like that has always been such a crucial outlet for them whenever they've struggled to get up the central channel and yeah I just think you know enable etch and decay or someone else to be that guy how wrong would I have been in answering jack's question with deandre edlin not a hundred percent wrong yeah edlin edlin was on the right a bunch last season so I think it was money I just don't think he was shuddling as much necessarily but you're already got a percent wrong you're already got the bonus point for brace so that's what matters here let's take one more break we'll come back with talk about quite a few more games back soon welcome back to the total soccer show let's go to skc nil deron furry one or sandy a go I guess they did score the goal but it's deron furry I think is how I'm supposed to pronounce it according to sandy egos website doesn't feel right there we are uh he stands out as head makes two very big saves and is overall very competent very reliable in another important win for sandy a go gentlemen that's one to watch right there on the plane Joe yeah on the plane not to the country where he already plays yeah on the plane get him on the bus LA I think if this was happening a few months earlier we'd be talking about it more seriously right I mean I did not know how I was supposed to say this gentleman's name and furry feels like something I'm gonna have to get you there but it should be like furry right but instead of furry yeah there's all sorts of picks I would have gone to before furry but you know it's it's good to know we learn things every day he just looks really good his shot stopping in this game was excellent till you mentioned those couple of saves laid on sandy a go dominated this this one no win over Kansas City but they just couldn't quite put it away and so Kansas City were still in it to their credit like they're still throwing punches at the end and furry cleaned it up all the way across the board I was very very impressed by him I was also impressed with his distribution in this game he was not perfect but he pulled off some passes that I don't think there are many goalkeepers in this entire US pool who can pull off so we highlighted the fact that he'd been starting games for sandy ego and that sandy ego will basically always choose to start the young player whenever they can reasonably defend their decision to do so so that's not new but I watched this game with a closer eye and a goalkeeper than I tend to just because we don't see a lot of young high level goalkeepers playing games anywhere in the world I suppose so I was watching furry a little bit more closely and he lived up to the billing so I'm very very eager to see more of him and I wonder if he is one of those sandy ego guys that is going to be in the US picture sooner than later so the only real concern that is if sandy ego suddenly signs like a 15 year old goalkeeper to a professional contract then suddenly oh the decrepit during three of three no absolutely not get away old man we've been some dirt that's right speaking of teams signing teenagers and then them somehow looking even better RSL three at Lani United two Atlanta at home not having a great start to the season putting it mildly but first let's praise RSL and all of their teenagers and all of the young players and all of their signings who are all suddenly good should we just praise RSL in general every aspect of them is that where we are at this point right certainly yeah certainly praising for for how they've gotten to a point where you know this is not a surprise result certainly to go into Atlanta and get all three points I don't know if there are many teams that are hitting that balance between like clever maneuvers on the international mark transfer market and dependably developing homegrown talent and actually melding those two together like a lot of teams are really good at one of those and have some success at the other but but to have it at the sustainability that they've been able to foster I think is a testament to the work that Kurt Schmitt Jason Christ and a lot of other people are doing in that front office Xavier Gozo you know stepping up yet again and coming in with a fantastic goal one of the best goals of the weekend you know cutting in from the right side and I think this team also just looks better equipped to play without Diego Luna doing everything for them in the final third than they did last year or two years ago right and part of that is Morgan Giavoghi coming in and being you know fantastic in distribution and and seamlessly kind of integrating with his teammates in that way and knowing where to put a ball where they want it right and that sort of stuff is going to you know kind of pay back with you know those tapping goals later down the stretch from those players want to kind of give them back I just think that there's so much of what RSL has been doing and how they have been building that I think is kind of the best blueprint one of the best blueprints out there in terms of like true developmental clubs in this league and certainly ones in a market the size of Salt Lake City in Sandy so you know really really credible a lot of good stuff coming from RSL and I think a lot of stuff that Atlanta fans are are quietly kind of jealous of when they're watching that game if we're going like hyperbolic over enthusiastic way too dramatic to start the season through these first three games this is Kurt Schmidt in your top five GMs in the league top three where would you put him I think when you consider the job that he has to do and so not just what the role calls for but also what club he's at right he's he's had two ownership changes in the last half decade that he's had to navigate in this role and get used to different payrolls different expectations different sort of top down edicts these sorts of things I would put him in the top five I think that he's built that sort of a track record now where where I certainly think in a what we've seen in 2026 I think that this this is one that doesn't look like a fluke and I think it was one that was projectible if you looked at the business they'd done he's claimed top five so you can go top four top six it's up to you top one big no I mean I don't I don't really believe that but I do think pound for pound that's what always gets talked about in these debates right it's just like to factor in the context that's what we say I didn't pound for pound the RSL for an office has done a phenomenal job and it's done better than the vast I'd have to actually think about it for longer but then the vast majority of front offices across the league they have built two different and I am thinking this team is going to have sort of close to where their 2024 team was at the end of the day they built two different but I think very good and very talented teams of the last few years they didn't maintain which is really hard to do so they had the low in between when you lose on risk of isn't you lose teacher on go but now they have restocked after a bad 2025 they've gotten right back on the horse and that's that's impressive there aren't a lot of teams that do that and they can turn things around that quickly after they make some mistakes in the transfer market so the whole front office I think is done a really impressive job and and Gila Vogue is probably the best summary of that right or or maybe he's one of them Sonabria being the other yeah yeah true I mean Sonabria was amazing in this game and he looks really good surgery so long looks really good and I think I mentioned in my last week show I mean they're they're finding talent from all over the DPs the I think Sonabria is probably a tame guy I haven't looked at it and and then Solans is a draft pick so they're kind of checking all these different boxes yeah all right all right I think last year's draft two there we go moving up there it is moving up the rankings I mean Gila Vogue looks like a like a best 11 level player I don't I don't think that's hyperbolic at all we could be hyperbolic about the front office stuff the through ball he plays on the Solans goal is just filthy like it is so good and he played another equally filthy through ball last week and his debut off the bench this guy's not fully fit and he looks amazing you know RSL had some issues in this game defensively but I'm still really high in the talent and they're still missing so many players I I love what they're doing then and I think I'm going to continue to love it I think Gila Vogue has got the inside track on this year's Zinc Greenoggle Award for guy with a last name very long without much brand recognition stateside who catches everyone off guard in MLS the small political ward yeah it's so full of candidates but I think he does have that inside track the fact it's happened twice man I mean I even thought about this enough either but just to toss things out I feel like he's probably the early front matter for newcomer of the year unless I'm missing something really obvious and I think you're right I don't even know how close it is at the moment yeah yeah I think you're going to have to look at the wingers and red bull and if Rubel Cabo is going to make a a challenge for that but yeah I'm all in on Gila Vogue as well okay so he's got that one locked down for now saddest returner of the year does that go to Tatumartina oh my goodness Jeff did okay listen if you haven't seen there's this clip that Sam Jones posted on blue sky oh my god and it is of Atlanta United in this game against RSL they press sort of they press they win the ball in the final third and then instead of pressing any advantage that they have right instead of going to Cooper Sanchez Steven Elzate and Tristan Moomba it's mostly Sanchez and Moomba though I think Elzate is just kind of hanging around instead of deciding to play forward they just start rondoing between the three of them for no reason like there's no pressure there's you're not playing through anybody you're not even drawing anybody to you by taking these extra touches on the rondo you had a chance to go downhill and you just didn't do it I I that clip broke me and it would break me if I was in Atlanta United fan I mean it's cool that Alexa Moranchex scored a brace in this game and maybe there's some signs of life there the best version of Atlanta probably does involve him being on the field which is definitely believe that there is yeah yeah little little little spark little I don't know man it's it's bad it's it's really really bad I actually think when I'm making fun of the midfield because it's funny and they deserve it um I do think there there maybe is a capable midfield in here somewhere I really like the Thomas Yucob signing he looks awesome like he played right back in this game maybe he's gonna be best as a center back for this team because their center backs are tragic despite the fact that they're paying them all seven figures which is absurd um I think Yucob is really good I think Ozate is quite good and I think you get something out of their uh their new paraguayan international that they signed in the name is not in front of me and I apologize for that but he came off the bench in this game and looked like a man possessed he was after it and I know he was fitter and fresher than everybody else on the field at that time but I think maybe there's there's a midfield in there somewhere the problem is even if that even if that's the case there's no attacking here like Amarone looks fully washed lots a lot is a striker that is fully reliant on service and he's not gonna get any of it and that's a huge huge problem so it's like to still bad they played bad in this game maybe some sparks in this team but I mean it's rough right now to boil it down again just so I have it as like the Clifston's version what do you think based on the personnel he has available assembled from or four a couple of different coaches what do you think is the way Tata Martino would most like to play uh I think I mean I think Tata Martino wants the ball I think we've seen that in in some of the build that Atlanta have used this year I think we saw that last time in Atlanta for the most part and we saw it in Miami we saw it at times at Mexico too so I think in terms of how he wants to play I think I think he wants to keep possession okay so who are the players then that allow that the most in this team who are like the three that you most trust in possession on the ball with Atlanta Alzate yeah Alzate I'm worried to see fear is a problem no here's the here's the thing I don't know if Tata has accepted that Matia or that Miguel Almiron has aged from 2018 like he's still being asked to do a lot of the same stuff that he was doing the first time around and it's a very different player and I don't know if he's recognized that I don't know how much Almiron's playing into like the possession maker break of it all do they have three players Joe that you look at and you say like they're you're confident that they are going to help you retain the ball and also advance it when time no I mean not honestly not really but I don't know if that's me overreacting a little bit to this team and how bleak they've been Maranchauk is a guy who can do dangerous things on the ball and I would say Pedro Amor is another one but he's he's been benched so he's been benched yeah I said coming into the year when you look at Amorone and Laté lot but the best version of this team is going to be one that plays in transition more because Amorone's not really a one-view-one dribbler at all and so he's not a guy you want isolated in possession to try to like be that be the one to be the guy and play the last pass that's really not his game right he's better in the channel better in transition Laté a lot is certainly better in transition I think Jacob is just an all-around destroyer type who can do a little bit on the ball certainly but he is physically he's just stronger than you and he can run further than you and can run faster than you so he's a guy I think could destroy a lot of things and kickstart some of those transition moments it's just so messy right now and I honestly don't know that it matters how it went to play I just don't think they have enough quality to be a team that that really causes a lot of problems right now if you were having to calm a fan base right now Jeff I'll ask you first would you rather attempt to calm the Atlanta fan base or the Philadelphia Union fan base I'm assuming the union is an easier sell right now I think it's an easier sell that I can put more genuine heart into it's rough in fit gotchester I guess right now facility has become that's their net this poor Chester a man named Chester who has put his whole heart into the Philadelphia Union and maybe too much money as well yeah Philadelphia becomes the second team in MLS history to begin its supporters shield defense with three losses on the bounce who is the first who is number one two thousand seven DC United who went on to win the shield again so like it could mean nothing and this is the nature of major league soccer right you you can't we we say that you can't really clinch a playoff spot or or win the shield in the first five weeks but you can certainly lose one you can still retain a chance you just need to like hit absolute fire and I think that that DC United team only lost like four of 27 games thereafter so that's the form that they're gonna need with Philly it's a mix of injuries and teams kind of having watched their tape closer seemingly then they were watching down the stretch last year right and just generally knowing what patterns this team is going to try to execute with the players who are back while also recognizing that the replacements for a lot of the players who left especially when you look at Kaivogner and then also the injured Quinn Sullivan aren't necessarily doing the same things aren't posing the same threats and so maybe you know it's it's it's not the same octane that you're used to seeing from this Philly team but but San Jose comes in you know very credibly frustrates Philadelphia for the majority of it um and yeah I think at this point now Philly it's it's kind of tough to see especially as long as they're in the Konkikap Champions Cup because they've they've seemed to really struggle with getting that balance right in terms of starters versus rotational squads in which competition um I still think it's a playoff team because we entered Sunday with six teams on zero points in the Eastern Conference and then Toronto and Montreal picked up three a piece uh so there there is still like a lot of chaff there that has been separated so far but um boy Philly needs points quick is there anything Joe that you see that could help them get those points at a faster more consistent right at this point uh Kevin Sullivan that's the answer because I mean they have a spear XG in this game they have more shots I think equal possession I think it's 50 50 split so like the underlying numbers aren't terrible it seems like they're opportunities there and they're just not taking them for whatever reason it just makes me wonder what could be the reason that they do start taking them and it sounds like it's answered answered I don't think they're I don't think they're creating enough opportunities frankly so I guess I push back on that slightly this is a home game against a quakes team that didn't have their star on the field for the first 45 minutes and defense is not alleged to be their forte it should be said right so I think Philly needs to show more in these kinds of games and I don't think they're creating enough opportunities I don't think they're dire in in-chance creation but I think they could be a lot better and last year they were certainly better than this it's not a shock that they're worse when you lose Kai Wagner and Quince Olvin for basically the entire year and in Wagner's case forever um but they need they need more precision I think in the final third and then they need to maybe sharpen a little bit on the defensive end but I think that will happen with the players that they have Kevin Sullivan is is one of the best prospects so we've ever seen an American soccer and we're seeing other prospects some that are are probably worse players than him around the league get run and change games and Kevin Sullivan can't get on the field for a team in a position of need for them it makes no sense to me I don't understand why Bradley Cornell is handling Sullivan like this I know he's 16 so we should be sensitive to not putting an absurd amount of pressure on him but I don't think I'm doing that I'm just saying the guy should be playing games for the union in in these kinds of moments he doesn't even get off the bench in this game against San Jose I know he started in Conkey half play I know he's already seen the field in MLS it seems like Cornell is trusting in more this year than last year it's not enough man like if Michael Bradley can throw Matty dos Santos on the field that left back a guy that we don't really know about and maybe that's our fault and he looks really good you can play Quince Olvin and and help him help you like it just doesn't make any sense to me how they're handling that and I think some of this downfall is is on their own heads and per fought mob Quince uh Kevin sorry I can't believe that's the first time that's only happened for me uh Kevin has played 55 professional games across next pro and MLS entering this year so like you can't really say like he hadn't played that's generally the brawmater you look for it does he understand what we're trying to do here has he actually played against grown men are we willing to throw men and there's just a certain point where you have to say hey it's the same sort of thing we were saying about goalkeepers the last couple of weeks with Duran Ferry furry still getting used to that too uh sometimes you've just got to try the fresh hand you haven't seen before rather than going back to the default that you have that you know doesn't work as well as you need it to to win games and I think that this is just a case where you have the like germnail that you have the best u18 prospect in the league probably I don't know why you're not giving him any minutes in a game like this it's it's just so frustrating because that's like that's the units whole thing is that oh yeah we'll move on from this player in this player because we got the next one already you know well you do you have the next one everybody agrees you have the next one except you I guess I don't know they they know more than we do right so they have information into what's happening that we don't I'm always sensitive of that but I think Kevin Solvin is good enough to be on the field for the union and I think you would help them like it just feels like such a no brainer that my brain actually cannot compute what is happening to the point where I think there's got to be something else happening if you played for rsl he'd already have 40,000 minutes this season that's what I'm saying man like rsl are trotting out guys that are worse than Kevin Solvin right now and and they're producing for them so it just doesn't make sense to me while we're addressing shots fired Jeff I believe there was some skepticism espoused by you regarding San Jose's defense I would point out three teams to start the season with three shout out wins San Jose is one of them I did not have that on my predictions list I will be honest I was more optimistic about teamalverna and I felt like he was a player who would just kind of come in and quietly be very very good for a team that needs someone to be very good in pole strings and it seems like that's what he did in this game would anyone like to talk positively about teamalverna since Ryan Bailey is not here and we're allowed to that mean yeah that means we can right there's a window open I thought Werner Werner would be good and MLS I didn't know exactly how good right I didn't know if you would be that's 11 or just like a well above average sort of starter the thing that's impressed me most about Timo time so far is that he has not just done his damage off the ball but he's doing it on the ball too he had some really nice moments off the bench against Atlanta and that went for San Jose last weekend and then he comes off the bench at half time of this game plays on the left wing and drops a dime of an assist now it's horrific defending from the union at left back where they are are still missing Ky Wagner quite a bit although he was not the best defender in the world but it is it's a filthy turn and it's a filthy through ball into the box and it's a goal so it I mean Werner is doing things on the ball that I didn't know that he would thought it was possible you see we seen it with Thomas Muller a guy who made a lot of his money off the ball he's been really really good on the ball and MLS because everything is a bit slower and you have more time and so he can be more dangerous it seems like Werner is falling in those footsteps and if I'm a quakes fan I'm stoked about that because this guy looks like he could be one of the best players in MLS as long as we're talking about fan bases that are stoked let's talk Nashville and the three to one win over Midasota Jeff just how much stronger does Espinoza make this Nashville team we have Ani Muktar not like setting the league of light necessarily and that has not really been a problem so far yeah and and I think that the best teams in MLS you do need to have three goal scoring threats on the field at every time or three genuine like created a chance that's so meaty that there's no way your teammate isn't going to convert it right you need to be able to have three of those players and it's it's something that Nashville now just looks better equipped to have right they they trusted their recruitment to replace Walker Zimmerman without using a DP slot and center back and that they had the center backs that they needed and I think that they do I think they actually do have some of the league's best best depth at the heart of the back line of any of the 30 teams but but what Christian Espinoza does now is gives them a wide threat that forces teams to not kind of congregate the central channel once they get into their defensive third once at once Nashville is attacking then you've been able to see over the last few years right and and that was always an issue that honey mooktar was running into when he didn't have a striker is good at samsurge even when samsurge arrived it was something that the two of them kind of have to regularly you know faces people congesting the box to try to make it more difficult for them to find their spaces and Espinoza space is the field so naturally while offering dynamism a threat you know gets his first goal in between a samsurge brace against Minnesota I just think that it's also the first time maybe since they've moved out MLS where we've seen Nashville able to not just win games but really looking control of games even if honey mooktar isn't really involved in the box score and and that's a good sign too for the evolution not because honey mooktar is on the way and he's only 30 but I think just versatility making sure that they're not too predictable they are so fun to watch right now and and what BJ Callan has them doing in all phases I think is you know we talked about it with Vancouver and segment one being appointment viewing Nashville has become appointment viewing for me already and and I think it's in a very different way but really really entertaining system and I think it's it's it's a no brainer why they went for Christian Espinoza so hard the soft season uh if we're giving credit to Nashville for their roster build I have a question from Minnesota why didn't they go out and get Hamas Rodriguez again uh you know wouldn't that have been helpful he was oh wait he is there he's just refusing to fight what's going on Jeff why is he not yeah I mean like look he returned he hadn't played since I think mid-November and according to uh Columbian reporter Hamas Rodriguez on Instagram today Hamas Rodriguez is expecting to play this coming weekend uh so he was injured against Nashville he was not fit that's yeah yeah it's just like some of these like as he's returning to fitness muscles pulling him out of contention not them not running to rush him back to soon and probably like contractual edicts not to push him beyond his body's ability due to the world cup I would imagine that's a clause in there wasn't he warmay up though I feel like he warmed up in this game it was pictured multiple times on the sidelines or perhaps I'm wrong but I was up under a quilt maybe I would expect that we will see some Hamas Rodriguez this upcoming week he was not on the bench in this game so I don't know if he was jogging but he was not going to play regard okay uh for Nashville one uh quick question do either of you have any concerns about the roster of their areas you would like to see them get a little bit stronger if they can before the primary window closes before the primary window maybe not you know I think that right now let's let's let it play out let's see how that he tags up and and yes back midfield works but that is an area I will look at and say if they can have someone when made with more of a profile the Christian roll down right like I know it's like everyone if you could just get the best defense midfield during the league right now maybe you'd be better right uh and it's true but I think having someone who maybe is a little bit more um effective on the tackle both of them will try to tackle that volume but maybe with mixed levels of effectiveness looking at their underlying numbers last season so that's a bigger sample size um they're they're able to do some really good ball movement you know working with Andy Nahara on the right and then you know left channel as well being able to kind of ping pong off and be sort of a low amount of time in the middle of the park at times when the game needs them to but I just wonder if they need someone who's maybe more of a natural um midfield anchor I guess maybe but again I want to see another half season of evidence before I really go and say that that's the area of need I think that there is there's every chance that I was constructed this team can contend to win MLS Cup one final game I wanted to mention I don't think it's in the running order but I'll put it on there for me uh Red Bull zero Montreal three a game that I fully dismissed uh as like Montreal having any chance of competing in or creating anything or being fun to watch I fully thought this would be more Red Bull hype they would get another win I'll be it against quote-unquote weaker opposition and the kind of narrative would keep growing instead maybe a little bit of a reality check for both the Red Bulls and myself you have Justin J barging into people conceding penalties you have is it magnetic who gets dispossessed somewhat easily Ethan Horvath who gives him a hospital pass inside his own last time of course it's Ethan Horvath's fault says Joe I say maybe make yourself a little bit bigger and anticipate that someone's going to be applying pressure says me either way it was I think a bit of a reality check and a bit of a reminder that number one anything could happen in MLS on a given day but number two when you have the kids and you're playing those kids there can be kind of drawbacks and growing pains even if RSL makes it seem like that will never happen uh so credit to the Red Bulls credit to Michael Bradley but more credit to Montreal for a convincing win in a strong performance and Montreal are interesting they've made mark in every game basically all over the field so there's the ghost of my TSM8 is still with us which is nice Marco Donnell's revived it and brought it back Montreal did well to force the Red Bulls into some uncomfortable positions the Red Bulls also just shot themselves in the foot over and over in this game I actually didn't think they played a bad game in between those mistakes Julian Hall was forced to play as one of the free number eights or Michael Bradley alongside Emil Forzberg because Donnell was that injured in Donnell I think means a ton of this team but I thought Hall looked quite good excuse me he looks quite good as as that right set at number eight I don't think that's his best role by any means but I watch this game after the fact and everybody had said all his out of position and he didn't didn't seem to look great I thought it was fine in this game I didn't think the game was on him at all they just couldn't use everybody who said that there were eight people at attendance at this game yeah all of them all of them individually messaged me about how they thought he was poor and it was all his fault I probably overreacted a little bit to that when when I was reading some criticism of him but I thought he was good and and the Red Bulls just kind of struggled a little bit with the man marking of Montreal in this game and I think that left them behind the eight ball slightly then you have defensive mistakes and you're in trouble so I'm I'm not any more worried about the Red Bulls after this loss than I was before and I'm not that worried about them regardless but they do have some clear you know question marks sort of in this team even though they've been really quite fun and and pretty good so far this year never underestimate a man scorn right and then watching wiki come on a not to brace and get the first MLS team of the week honor of his career against his whole team delicious like that's that's box office that's great um and this was the first test of the medias like kind of that that true midfield anchor right kind of left on an island to a degree um and then maybe it's not time for that yet and that's okay too uh but yeah I'm with you I'm not as worried yet but I think for Montreal it's validation of a lot of the stuff I said in their season preview that they've been working on a preseason be more physical um you know really frustrate opponents with the level of physicality that they're not used to in a system era of soccer right and and just hope that that's enough to unsettle them with a young team like Red Bull New York sure like I think that that's going to be achievable but against a lot of other teams uh mileage may vary by your effectiveness on the tackle each week yeah final question for you both and it's really the age old question do we annoy Colorado supporters more if we don't mention their win over the galaxy their resounding win over the galaxy or do we annoy them more by briefly mentioning it and not giving it much coverage at all uh I can do something yeah I think either one actually works you can flip a coin I mean good job call out for scoring goals when you went up a man there you go it's good before that too didn't they yeah but it was level before then so yeah I've actually haven't seen this game yet so I I don't know maybe they played really well I'm not sure it looked like the galaxy tried went down one and then said now we're done trying and then uh two more goals followed in quit succession so a strong win for Colorado a strong weekend of major league soccer and a strong performance by both of you in reviewing it all and talking it all out Jeff Rooter the scourge of usl and the save review usl thank you so much for all of your efforts today it all comes from a love of the lower leagues man it really does just wanting that landscape to be as stable as possible because I think that all of us soccer is better when the lower leagues are thriving so I hope that they figured it out I really do I just worry about getting pro rel in there enforcing it in when it's not ready for that what I heard was pro rel will save us all uh Joe Lowry thank you for finally acknowledging the greatness that is the greatest goalkeeper alive with your name today Joe high tech I'm gonna make it tech a joker just to make a double Joe in there nicely done mr. Lowry for that and much more thanks Taylor I had big 10 and I mentioned the other day so pro rel really is is back did you really oh wow I did yeah it shook me to my core there's a blast from the past yeah it's a name I've not heard and quit some time listeners thank you all so much for listening we greatly appreciate it and we'll talk to you again