📜 View Full Episode Verbatim Transcript
67,087 characters
Welcome to the Total Soccer Show and a bulletin' now news roundup show today! Please celebrate 4 more years of the Hugo Boss safari suit! Ritzi Pachatino has agreed to coach the USMNT through the next World Cup. Elsewhere is Johnny and Fantino on the ropes or in this post-shame world. Will he just continue as FIFA's leader? I'm opposed. All this and so much more on today's bulletin. My name is Ryan Bailey. Join me today. Taylor Rockwells here. Hi Taylor, how are you? I did well Ryan Bailey. I love during show dance. I love the concept of a post-shame world except that I hate that concept simultaneously but I think we're off to a flyer. Not least because of that dancing, nicely done my friend. You know what else we're in? Taylor Rockwells birthday world. It was yesterday. Happy birthday Taylor. Thank you. It was a lovely day spent with the family and my birthday gift my wife asked me what I wanted and my answer was to build a tree house. So I got all Saturday cleared of children to build one third of a tree house. It's a slow process that required multiple steps and multiple trips to the hardware store as does every project idea. Your wish wasn't a new contract for Michelle Pochino? That's it. That's it. She got to work. She got to work. Over the weekend after I said that was the other thing I would really enjoy. And you know, her contract expertise really came to the fore. So tree houses just for you, no girls allowed sign on the front. What are we talking here? Stepbrothers down. No homers as well. Yes. That's the rule. Your lab one. No homers club in the tree house. Yep. Yeah. Very good. Great. Rather than how you have your tree house recent history been in one lately? No, but I love tree houses like who doesn't like tree houses. I kind of want one and there are some big trees at the back of my house. So maybe I should maybe I should get on that. Maybe that should have been my birthday wish my last birthday. That was a mistake by me. How many how many TV screens would you immediately wire into your your soccer tree house cream? Yeah. I could get a few in there. I'm envisaging like a barge casino style tree house like for the local neighborhoods. That's that would be my dream. Have a Robert Goulet come and play for you in the tree house. Very good. Excellent stuff. Can I tell you can I tell you tell you the nerdyest thing that you're both going to stare at me blankly about? Oh. It's designed to look like a Klingon bird of prey, my tree house. That's that's what we're going for here and on there and like silent faces of confusion are exactly what I expected. Thank you for that. But at least maybe one person listening to this was enthusiastic about that. A lot of other ones were not and do not care. Let's talk about pot. Shall we? Yeah. Let's talk about pot Latino and stop people from switching off the podcast. No disrespect to your tree house Taylor. It sounds lovely. Before we get to the main event of this show patreon.com slash toad us locker show is the best way to support us. You'll get bonus episodes bonus video and access to our discord. What's been happening on the patreon lately? I went to a soccer game in London this weekend. Did you do that? Yeah. Like that. I like the shirt you bought. They're going to off weight. One more than shirt. I think that's the best of the bunch. That season. I was pleased with that. And I was reminded, Graham, of the futility of friendly games. Yes. Yeah. But is that like club friendly games know the worst kind? It was a training exercise, but it was a fun day. I'm glad I went. I don't get to go very often to see my team also coming later on the patreon. In fact, maybe now as you listen to listen, we're going to talk about georena. Another club. Hmm. Which one is it? Bonus feed. Let's go find out on there. Shall we? patreon.com slash total. Soccer. Show. All right. Let's get to the big story of the bulletin. Great so pochettino. A greener deal to stay as us coach through the 2030 world cup tail your instant reaction to this. Mine is one of surprise. I wasn't expecting it, but here we are for more years. We're not expecting it like during and post the world cup or we're not expecting it over the weekend or both. I wasn't expecting it any time on the timeline, if I'm honest. I was on a running order from friday. Let's talk about this. Apart from that. Yes. I think the foldable cup. I wasn't expecting to do two terms of this. I'm surprised. Generally speaking. Yeah. I mean, I think I would have been surprised like heading into the world cup. And then I started to believe a little bit. I started to hope a little bit. It felt like he really was enjoying coaching the US. I felt like he was really enjoying coaching the US in the United States and seeing the crowd response and the enthusiasm for the team. And it does feel like the world cup went well until it didn't obviously. And so maybe there is work still to be done. And a lot of the reporting has been around the kind of increased role he's going to take. How he's going to be more involved in youth development and and sort of like approaches to training and whatnot. Who knows if that will end up coming to fruition. But largely this seems like a, in my opinion, really positive development to keep them around to keep them the momentum going. And to have a big name coach who wants to stick around. It's not the sort of mercenary gig that we ended up thinking it would be. It does feel like in the end. He kind of enjoyed his time here. He's enjoyed what they've done so far. Who knows if he will actually end up managing the US at the 2030 World Cup. Maybe he does a ghost hitting can manage a club and a country simultaneously. We'll see how it goes. This does feel to me like there are some maybe more cynical way or pragmatic ways to interpret this one. But overall, he's still around and that makes me very excited. Yeah. The longer this went on after the World Cup without any news, it did seem more likely that Postino was was open to staying, particularly after the athletic and other supported late last week or the middle of last week, actually, that a deal was close. But I think if he if he wasn't staying, we would have got a statement pretty quickly after the World Cup has had concluded saying that he was moving on. And so it's not completely out of the blue, but I'm not going to revise what I said a few weeks ago and certainly during the World Cup. I am very surprised that Postino is staying. I thought this was a one and done job for him. That is no longer the case. I am skeptical. I echo your thoughts Taylor. I am skeptical that we will see him in charge for the 2030 World Cup. He is going to get a lot of job offers in that period of time. So I think we should prepare ourselves for nonstop speculation when jobs inevitably come up when the first big Premier League job comes up, which they do it invariably a lot. He's going to be linked with that and he'll be maybe talking to these clubs. So I think that's going to be a thread. I think that's going to be a storyline throughout this sort of second cycle. But go on Ryan. That would then not be quite a bad look if he stays let's say until 2029. And so taking billionaire Republican head fund manager Ken Griffin's money for three years. And then sorry. It's not even for us need me. That doesn't that's not great. Is it? It's not, but I mean, I don't know if he would do it in 2029. It feels like 2028 after it seems like the US is going to be involved in another Copa America on home soil as well. That hasn't been confirmed that that has that's the reporting and I would I would be shocked if that has not been part of the sales pitch for from US soccer. That feels like a natural sort of maybe bridging point where at that stage everyone will decide whether they want to go another two years until the 2030 world cup. But generally, I think it's great news that pop scene was staying on and that might be stating the obvious, but I've seen a lot of people react already on social media negatively to this. I know there's this idea about second cycles, which interestingly is something I only ever hear about in like American soccer discourse. I'm not saying it's wrong. I just don't know if that is accepted elsewhere. But there's two things with that idea, right, with Pochettino. One is that he didn't have a full cycle, he had half a cycle. So if the premise of the reluctance that given managers a second cycle, which on on some level I accept, because you don't want things to get stale, well surely things are not going to get stale after two years, he hasn't had a full cycle. So I think that's irrelevant. And the second thing is with that idea, surely you have to take it on a case by case basis. And Pochettino is one of the best coaches working in the sport right now. So I think it's a no brainer to keep him. I think it's really encouraging that Poch believes there's more to come from this group. And personally, I'm delighted that that Belgium game and everything, I won't go over all grounds, but everything that went on around it is not the end of the story for this team under this manager. I'm delighted that there's going to be another chapter. Yeah, I agree with everything that I said, and it does feel like that's the two focal points of criticism. Number one, it's a second cycle, you never know how that's going to go. And I do think it should be a case by case thing. I do think a lot of that mentality is rooted in the coaches that have been there before. And a feeling that like, yeah, like we kind of met expectations, we got to where we thought we would playing a style that largely was okay. I guess we're going to stick with it. It always sort of feels like we don't have any better ideas right now. We're not sure what else is out there. So we're just going to kind of keep on keeping on and keep the manager around. And like I guess you could make that argument with Pochettino given the US went out around the time we expected them to obviously in a worse fashion than we hope they would. But at the same time, for large stretches of the World Cup, the US played really exciting soccer in ways that we hadn't seen them play before and there was so much more buy-in from this squad and intensity and physicality and work rate, but also technical play. So to me, it makes sense to renew him and keep him around. But then the other like aspect of the criticism I've seen is, well, what happens when he leaves in 2028? And now we've only got two years and we're right back in the same situation. And that might well be the case, but that could be after a stronger performance in Copa America. And maybe that entices him to stick around because the US is looking even stronger. And who knows what happens in a World Cup? It could be that it leaves the US on solid ground to bring in somebody who can play a similar style or kind of keep things going or adapt them a little bit. But all of that is kind of based on conditionals and hypotheticals and potential concerns. And by contrast, I think I would much rather have those theoretical issues than having had Poch walk away. Now we're starting from scratch, we're starting from square one. We've got to do the coaching search. We've got to decide if we want a domestic candidate or another big name manager. If you want a big name manager, who's available and how do you get them? And it would have felt like the upcoming friendlies were just sort of a completely non-event because we don't know who the coach is. It's going to be kind of like, yeah, we'll call on some new faces. We'll see what happens. But now it feels like the next steps can be taken. We can get new looks, but it will be with a coach who understands the player pool and the roster and his needs to make the team play even better. And so those friendlies go from kind of completely meaningless afterthoughts to, hey, this could be the start of the next big thing. So it increases my enthusiasm and attention accordingly. Yeah, I think time is one of the things, the biggest things that the US, the US has bought itself with this, with keeping Poch, you know, on, I think that's a really valid and important point to make, Taylor, where if Poch, you know, leaves after the World Cup, it is that process again of, I think, most likely an enter manager until the end of the year, then it's a permanent appointment at the start of next year, then it's March, by the time you have games under the, under the, the new manager, then it's, you know, qualifiers in the second half of the year, and we have the exploration period of the manager working through the pool. Poch already knows the pool, and he also already knows the players who are maybe next in line to break into the pool. We already have a decent idea of what a pox, you know, US, MNT looks like. The principles have been established. The players know what the standards are within the camp as well. So I feel like with this decision, which I personally think was an easy one for you or something to make. It was all in poch, whether he wanted to stay, but with this extension, it feels like the US has taken like essentially a full year out of the process that otherwise would have been the case. And, and I'll say, like credit to Graham, because Graham has said, I think from the time that we started talking about will poch stick around, will there be a renewal, the point has been made that if at the end of the World Cup, if you then say, I'm walking away, thank you. If you're poch, you know, and you say I'm walking away, it's been great. I want to look at club opportunities preseason has already begun. A lot of club situations have already been filled or staffed or what have you. And so you'd then be walking into like a chaos situation most likely would be this scenario, or you're waiting until like November or October in the first round of firings, and it does seem like poch, it's been it was more interested in larger clubs to your joke, Ryan. Like I don't think he would take over nodding him for us. I think like if things went horrifically for arsenal this season and next summer, they were sort of like, you know what, we want to change things. Maybe that's where poch, Tino is listening, but I think this allows him to honestly, like as cynical as it might be, to like keep getting paid by a federation and being paid well to do not a ton of work as we know with national team gigs, but it keeps him paid. It keeps him working towards a goal, but but at the same time, it keeps him in the shop window and it allows him to pick and choose when he wants to be considered for gigs and what gigs he wants to go for. So I do still think that there's probably a good chance that he jumpship to a different club gig or a club gig sometime in the next four years. My guess would be that that was part of the sticking point in negotiations. It sound like both sides had agreed maybe last week and then it was about like the fine details and the fine print. And I wonder how much of that was like break clauses and what compensation would have to be if he were to leave. None of that has been reported, which also I think is kind of interesting that we haven't gotten any details about what the deal is aside from. It's again being kind of supported by independent donors. It is for four years. Pochettino is happy to stick around to eat some more Chick-fil-A and listen to some country tunes. And with all that said, I'm still very excited about it because I have enjoyed Pochettino as manager. I think the players have as well. And I wasn't ready for the ride to end. There we go. Great. You mentioned the Belgian game, a hypothetical question for you. If that game had finished a glorious three, two defeat rather than the slightly insipid ending we got to Pochett's campaign there, do you think we would have this second term with him? Is this a, I don't want to go out on that note kind of thing? Um, I mean, obviously you're asking me to dive into the mind of Mauricio Pochettino, which sometimes there's a complicated place to be and a contradictory place to be and it has, it has been in the, in the past, I mean, maybe that, I would understand that, that mindset where that was just such a deflating way for that tournament to end for the US. And there, there is nothing that, there's nothing that Pochettino is going to be able to do to get that opportunity back, right? A world cup on home soil is, even if he stays until 2030, that's not going to be the situation at that tournament. It's going to be a tournament in Portugal and Spain and Morocco and half of the world, but it's not going to be in, in, in the US. So there's still going to be a huge amount of regret about the way that that tournament ended. But yeah, I can imagine, given someone we know to be so proud as he is, Mauricio Pochettino, to hold the high standards and have the principles that he does and that's part of the reason why he's paid so much to be in this position, he'll have been hurting after, after that game and that tournament. So yeah, I, I can imagine the sentiment from Pochettino would be similar to what you said there, right? This is like with that in mind, probably me being naive or willfully naive, but I do think when he takes this gig, like in the first cycle, there is an element of like, I want to manage it a world cup, like club gigs, you know, nothing is really what I want it to be right now if you're Pochettino. So I'm going to take this job, I'm going to manage the US on home soil. There are very limited expectations for this team at least kind of globally. So if I get anything out of them, it's going to be positive. I'm going to be seen as a success. And I think there were moments and he has made comments alluding to this, like in the past about like, I don't think he was overly pleased with the talent pool. I don't think he loved some of the players and some of the kind of situations of those players. And I think there's a reality to your question, Ryan, in which if the US had kind of just gone through the motions, played the same old style, players hadn't really raised their game, it had been the same old thing, they still might have gone out in the exact same stage in the exact same way. But I think it's the way they got there. The kind of like it would have been a sort of like, oh, yeah, they needed a close one they'll win over a team and then a fortunate draw and maybe they got a result elsewhere from another team. And so they were able to get through the like the squeak pass to team, then they lose in the knockout or like the second knockout round. Like it would have just been kind of like, yeah, that's about it. And then I think maybe that's when he walks. But I do buy into the idea and here's the naivete coming back that I think he was kind of like enjoying himself. I think he enjoyed coaching this team. I think he enjoyed some of the kind of fighting spirit, but also the collective willingness to work harder and do better. And I think we could see that in some of the performances leading up to the World Cup and then obviously during the World Cup. So I think I'm choosing to see it as he took a gig for the money and to be in the spotlight and he got both of those things, but then I think also he enjoyed himself and now he wants to keep enjoying himself and who knows how long that will last. But if it gets us through the Cup America and there's another solid showing and like optimism is on the rise, then I'm all in for it. As you should be, we're streaming this episode and Greg, 1987's left a comment, which has got me thinking Greg says another dynamic of this is Galoni leaving. What if Argentina approaches him? Greg, we haven't really discussed the idea that his next job might actually be to go and manage Argentina and looking at 2030, they are one of the 17 hosts of that tournament of course. So he could manage them on home soil. What do we think about that? I'm just quickly googling. Did I miss the news that Leonos Galoni is leaving? Yeah, I know that has been discussed previously, but I don't know if that has been confirmed yet, but I accept the premise of the question that maybe Pot just had a taste for international soccer and could be lured by another team with the possibility of winning a World Cup. Or at least just fouling everybody at a World Cup. One of the two things, both are achievable. It's going to be a while until you let this go. England is the other one. I don't know if Ryan Newfans had gone from a German coach in the English national team to an Argentinian, given everything that's happened. But England has been his home for a long time and so I'd imagine if Tucco, he's on a very hot seat right now, if he were to leave, Pot, you know, might come up in discussions. But I would be shocked if US Soccer hasn't protected himself in some way to at least until the Copa America, at least until 2028, it would have to be a huge buyout, right? In the terms of the new contract, so I feel pretty confident that Pot just going to be in charge at that Copa America in 2028, it's just the 23rd World Cup I'm not so sure about. Yeah. It does seem like then maybe if you were to walk in 2028 as some of the comments have suggested there's lots of speculation that maybe it's Steve Toronto, then who gets the look? He's managing the US Olympic team, obviously, and then has tons of experience in Germany and then in Major League Soccer, so maybe that's where they would go. Doesn't quite feel like the same like parallel step there, but all the same, if there is a sort of succession plan in place where there is at least an idea of what happens when Toronto could take over as interim manager, that kind of gives us some level of continuity until we can find the manager we want for the long term. All of that I feel like has to have been considered and planned and thought out and talked out, and I do think that's why some of this has been so delayed. I also think the original Pachatino line of like, yeah, we'll decide next week or something. Maybe you should have been taken with a grain of salt as to why this has taken longer than it did. That feels like a way that he got out of having to answer the question about what he will do long term by saying like, yeah, I'll let you know next week sometime. And then that was a few weeks ago. There is a former, a certain former Manchester City manager who by 2028 may be ready to return to the, this has been, this has been my, my, my, my, yeah, mark, yes, yeah, pelagreening. Yeah, this has been my long term prediction that whether it's an MLS or the US national team pet will coach in America. So by then, you know, he's turned down Italy, maybe he, maybe he wants to coach the team that actually qualifies for all cups by 2028. So who knows? Stranger, things have happened. I like that. A bit of sass. Very good. Indeed. I've actually just pulled up the some of the contract stuff has come through from Pachat as we're recording. It's going to be the same money as the original deal, but every other weekend, he gets to use a treehouse in Virginia that's like a nerdy Star Trek thing. Is that what that was? Yeah. I think so. I think that's what it was. Yeah. Just very quickly to make a sincere point about the, or is that actually in the contract right? Because I've not looked at the fine print. But I did, I did read the US soccer statement and found this part quite interesting. So this is a quote with this new commitment. He and the coaching staff will also advise and support US soccer and the broader development of the full national team pathway, youth soccer, coaching education, professional league collaboration and other technical facets across the soccer community. I don't know whether I just got PTSD from the Klinzman era. Correct. But that does put my back up a little bit where it feels like he's going to have more, more of a say, he's going to have more power in the technical side of things. And I never, I've never a big fan of that for national team managers. So it remains to be seen how much influence he's actually going to have, but I don't love that. I, I believe I am correct in saying we can throw allegedly in here if we need to. That, that Klinzman role was essentially a way to like double his salary by, by being like, well, you're adding all these new roles, all these new responsibilities. Now you have to up by compensation accordingly. And I'm not sure he actually ended up ever doing anything on that side of things, but the job title looked good. I'm sure it was good. Unlinked in for him. I, I have that same level of skepticism. I doubt Pochettino is going to youth tournaments and talking to the individual heads of the different state and local associations to find out what's truly going on with Wyoming soccer and how it can be kind of run similar to Texas soccer or vice versa. I have a feeling it will be, I'm going to watch some MLS games, I'm going to look at the talent development pipeline. I'm going to look at the youth national teams. We're going to try to streamline some approaches, but there's a game in Spain that I'm going to go watch this weekend. So I'll see you guys next weekend. I feel like it's going to be some combination of the two. I doubt he is overhauling US soccer from top to bottom. Sounds like a nice life. Very good. Indeed. I'm rich here. Pochettino ruled out formally as MLS commissioner. He's going to be the US manager until 2030 unless he skips before then. Let's take a quick break. I'm going to skip for a few minutes. When we come back, Gianni and Fantino, is he still FIFA president? He is for now. Join us then. Total soccer show, welcome back to the bulletin. Gianni and Fantino, is it the end? Today does he feel like Icarus flying too close to the sun? We will see. He's under a lot of pressure at the moment. He's abandoned the proposal to sell shares in FIFA's competitions late last week. And now we see a potential challenger to his role as a FIFA president. Members of the FIFA council are attempting an extraordinary general meeting, attempting to hold one that could develop into the leadership challenge. The challenger Graham, Victor Montaliani, a FIFA prime president and president of the ConquerCaf Federation, a Canadian no less who may be the man to dethrone Gianni. What's the latest, Graham? Yeah, possibly that could be the case. I mean, the last time we spoke about the Infantino stuff was the middle of last week. And at that point, FIFA had announced a plan and the backlash had only just started. And as you can recap, they're quickly rying. A lot has happened since then and it's accelerated to the point that by all accounts in Fantino is fighting for his position as FIFA president. He's tried to roll back the story for attempting to reason that this was all part of a consultation period. You know, but the consultation period was about two weeks and it kept on getting shorter and shorter. I didn't consult anyone. I didn't consult anyone. Nobody knew about it. And then, as you said, Ryan, he's ditched the plans completely, but that has not been enough to talk to any way for who vowed to boycott future world cups if plans went ahead. I believe that was both men's and women's world cups. So there's a women's world cup next year. So that really was quite a sharp threat, I guess. The UEFA are now calling for a vote of no confidence in Fantino. Conca Caff have also stated their criticism of Fantino and it is now got to the stage that if enough federations and confederations block vote in Fantino could very realistically be finished. And I think that's the process that's going on now. It feels like federation numbers are being counted before UEFA calls for that vote of no confidence because it's not just about UEFA. You know, there's 55 men members of UEFA. I believe 37 are required to have that vote of no confidence, but obviously, UEFA want to depose them, right? They want to get rid of them and 55 is not enough. So they need support from other confederations. I think that's the process where now are discussions between different confederations. Obviously, Sefer and Alexander Sefer and the UEFA president has been a long time critic of Fantino. Keep in mind, he didn't go to the world cup final in protest in Fantino and FIFA. So this is nothing new this opposition and what is new as UEFA, as I say, like block lining up behind him to oppose in Fantino and there's a there's a transition happening here where the balance of power is shifting to Sefer and he's not going to be the new FIFA president because I think it's difficult for a European in general to be the FIFA president. But it feels like he is the kingmaker on the last two days and they'll be in European at this point. To be fair in Fantino, yes, I said it was difficult, not impossible. I stand by that. Like it's difficult just with the politics of world football is difficult for you. It's a European, if you're a European who is like catering specifically to the smaller FIFA nations, that's the shall have a lunch blueprint. There are more small nations than there are gigantic European juggernauts. So if you appeal to all of them, you get the voting block behind you. And so yes, in Fantino is European, but I think he has always courted like what Africa, Asia and South America has been he is sort of like united voting block. And so I think if you're a Sefer and in UEFA, you recognize we can't have another you're we can't have a European come in and be basically European centric focused on euro needs. It has to be somebody from outside that realm and it does seem like that's where the negotiations with Conca Caff and what the only have kind of come about. And why I think that is there's a bit of like smoke and fire there and a lot of the narrative has been you know we're working around the clock to figure things out. We haven't had a time to think about who's going to take over whatever it does seem like the waters are being tested for. What if it were someone from Conca Caff with UEFA backing, would that appeal to enough of the world that you can pull a few federations from Asia, maybe snake one or two from Africa and South America. And then you have enough of a voting block to oust in Fantino this election. Yeah. And I'm on Montan Leone, one day I'm sure it's a great need to say I just haven't cracked it yet. It seems to be emerging as the front runner Canadian concav president. The other name that was mentioned obviously this is a fast moving story. So maybe there'll be another contender who rises to the surface. But Nasser Al-Khalafi has been mentioned he is the PSG chairman. Most crucially he is the head of the European football clubs group, which was a role that he took over. You'll all remember that story a few years ago the European super league when Edward and Andrea Nieli try to steal club football, obviously a similar thing happening here for an international soccer. And basically Nieli was the former head of the European football clubs group and Al-Khalafi took over and is a very close associate of saferin. Apparently he doesn't want it, but people are still trying to talk him around to maybe standing. But at the moment yeah it seems like Montan Leone is the guy. Is anyone like can we talk for a moment about house with Lee? This has turned around because to Graham's point last time we talked about it. I think we were all very frustrated by it, very annoyed by this news, but also had a feeling of like yeah this is FIFA under in Fontino. This is how it works. He's going to keep expanding. He's going to keep taking over. And at least some of that seemed to be rooted in like well there has to be some level of a plan. There has to be some reason for why they're doing this even if it seems like the only reason this is being done is to further entrench in Fontino in power because the idea was he would take over the new sort of private enterprise enterprise organization after this next term, which is his mandatory final term. And then he would transition into this new role that would keep him in power, keep him making the decisions. And it feels like that was pretty much the end of the thought process. It seems like everyone at FIFA is now trying to distance themselves from this saying that he they weren't consulted. They were deceived. What is it chief operating officer Kevin Lamore said that staff had been deceived by in Fontino and that he would sleep better after speaking out on the matter, even if it cost him his job. It is the project of one person Lamore said the time has come for football, political leaders to ask themselves the right questions and make the right decisions. That's pretty openly saying this dude made a bunch of choices that he did not consult anybody on and we are not for it. And I like I apologize if people don't want politics in sport mixing, but here we are. Like the best read I have on this is that he spent a bunch of time with the Trump administration and came away thinking I can do that. I can do whatever I want. I can control this. People will get behind it as long as you just keep moving and keep the grift going. No one can really stop you. And that's what this feels like. It feels like he didn't consult FIFA people. He didn't consult anybody but like rich billionaires with money to spend and celebrity footballers that he could use to kind of spread this message. And then the Trump administration and hangers on and the cushioners of the world. And all of that seems to me to be he thought he was untouchable. He thought he could push this through himself. There wouldn't be opposition after this world cup in which I now do kind of come around to the idea that this was the dry run. Look what we can do. Look how exorbitant these prices can be. We can give out a different concept. We can turn over red cards. We can do whatever we want. No one can stop us. So why would anyone be able to stop us here? But it also does feel like he had been annoying and frustrating and just like making life difficult for so many different federations and confederations that the animosity was building. The frustration was building and it needed a tipping point. And it seems like we have reached that tipping point because if you go and look, forgive me for going long. Like if you start listing even just in the last year, like the peace prize for Trump was something that apparently Infantino decided on his own, the ticketing scheme and how to price it avoiding traditional obligations during the world cup like the post world cup press conference when you kind of debrief with the media on everything that happened. The club world cup secret TV deals with Saudi Arabia to bankroll the club world cup, the obvious deal with like with Trump and the way he's kind of navigated that world. It all just it just builds and builds into a feeling of this guy is out for himself and is out to kind of glorify himself and does not really care about what has to happen to make that happen, including fundamentally changing the structure of an organization that itself is not ideal in the way it operates, but never did it feel more like a cartel closed system than over the last week. And so the response to it has been pretty comforting. I have to say. Yeah, I mean, the response, the speed of the response has been incredible. And I didn't predict that it would move this quickly, went the last we spoke about this, this story. However, I did say after the bargain thing, I thought this, that that was the beginning of the end for Enfantino, I remember a line to that effect that it said, and I didn't mean that would cost him his position like that specific instant would cost him his position as FIFA president, but he felt very vulnerable to the next big thing. I didn't envisage the next big thing would be quite this big, but it's quite clear that large swathes of the leadership of soccer around the world have not only lost faith in Fantino over this, they'd already lost faith in Fantino. This is the thing that has tipped him over the edge to your point, Taylor. And there was a really interesting deep dive piece by the athletic, which I read over the weekend, on the kind of behind the scenes staff and how people in leadership positions in FIFA have grown tired of Enfantino in the way that he operates. It was interesting to read that his relationship with the FIFA general secretary has completely broken down, which was new information to me. There was also really good details about how when Enfantino was in discussions with new sponsors and new commercial partners, he's not taking people from FIFA to those discussions. He's taking politicians, he's taking potential investors and he's taking these FIFA legends. I don't know if we saw, if he spotted them during the tournament, this is a new scheme that FIFA's got of like Roberto Carlos or Palo Maldini or whoever, and he will take some legends along to those conversations to, I guess, to make the potential partner star struck or whatever. And he's completely locked out anyone with actual power to those discussions. So this has clearly been the final straw. And yeah, at this point, as we're speaking right now, it does seem like it's going to cost him his possession. I'm not sure I would fully buy into that last statement, Graham. I would love to, but I don't know. It doesn't seem like that's the world we live in. I hope that I'm wrong, but like everything from that article and the garden did some really good reporting on this one as well as did the financial times, I think. But all of them kind of like getting really interesting information like the deck that he was supposedly kind of pitching and showing around referred to what the World Cup as FIFA. So it was always just like FIFA has been under monetized and underutilized and, and, and really it does seem to be that they wanted to make a lot more money for question mark. And that's what Carlos Codero, the former US soccer president, who was an advisor to Infantino pointed out in his parting, like kind of notice, was that there was no real clear reason why this needed to happen. It wasn't like they were some financially destitute organization where they needed to leverage their position to make more money to finance like general operations. There is a massive reserve of money FIFA is not a poor organization. So why do they then need to change their structure to make even more money? The only explanation that really fits in my mind is just that it's a way for Infantino to keep power because there are term limits in FIFA to some extent. And so if you create a new position and put yourself in it and it's the controlling the commercial arm of global soccer, it's a pretty powerful position to be in and, and, and stay in. And, and I do think a lot of this is him rubbing shoulders with people in the United States. Do I think are accustomed to not being held accountable and not really having to worry about what happens next? And, and I think that goes back to when the original bib is being considered for the 2026 World Cup that comes through the office of American innovation, which is headed by Jared Kushner and he's doing a ton of work to, like I think it's even him lobbying to get the final held in New Jersey. That might have been the club World Cup final, but I think it might have been the World Cup final. No, I think that was the World Cup final. So it's just you can just see the fingerprints all over it. And this is where like fully editorializing fully just my opinion, but like reading about some of the way this worked, like it could not sound more like my, my understanding of organized crime that it's like, no, it's not going to be me who takes the money. It's going to be my brother and his organization. So we have plausible deniability of there is a difference here. There is somebody else who's involved in this intermediaries involved and we're doing it through this organization that is all about creating ingenuity and in ingenuity would be creating a whole new FIFA, like it just seems to be a lot of cronyism and a lot of a lack of accountability. And I think for a lot of FIFA members, like like FIFA executives, but then also individual federations and everybody else, it just seems to have been a bridge too far. But he has been like kind of unkillable so far. I don't see how he, he loses a lot of the support he's gotten from certain confederations and federations and he's already had public backing. He already had, Graham, do you know the number of top of your head? How many letters of support he had managed to, like, so he's four years through. He's got one from guitar. He's got one from, but I mean, prior to the World Cup, hadn't he gotten like letters, oh, he's got loads. He got like 200 of 211. Yeah. I think 200 is number. Yeah. With that, I think like with that letter of support was also an agreement that you had to notify in writing if you were no longer going to be supporting him, like that was part of whatever deal it was, which has happened, though, by the way, so there are federations who are now officially withdrawing. I think the FA is one of them in the wheelchair phase, another. So all the UEFA, yeah, UEFA, all the UEFA nations will do that. Seems like all the Conquer-Calf nations will do that. Calf is the one that it seems like he can still read between the lines. He can still count on a lot of support from Calf. It feels like Asia and Connaball are going to be the, yeah, particularly Asia, because Asia, he's had a lot of support from previously, a lot of smaller nations there who have had huge funding from FIFA under in Fantino. If AFC turns, then yeah, I think he may be cooked. But like it's the, I'm going to require a letter of support from you before the election. Also you have 50 days to decide whether or not you want $40 million to agree to my structural changes or else. It just all feels very strong, man. It all feels very, I'm surrounded by Yes Men who aren't going to tell me that this is a terrible idea and there's going to be a massive backlash. And I think his response to it has shown that the way he does pull that statement but tries to have it three different ways simultaneously in which he's not at fault and we were never actually doing it. But if you thought we were doing it, that's on you. But also we were trying to do it, but it was for the good of the game. Because it feels like he's been especially tone deaf in the wake of this at a time when he probably needed to be his most effective in his communication to try to kind of rally support to keep this from blowing up further. So tone deaf to the extent that I'm just reading before we started recording a few hours before we started recording Ben Jacobs reporting that in Fantino is trying to show up his support and today he's holding a meeting with senior figures in the Trump administration to show that support. He still doesn't realize what's happening to him. No, I think I further ingratiating himself to the Trump administration is the way to create global support. That should totally do it. Well hang on, the fee for elections room March, what if he's trying to get an addition to the Save America Act that the voting will be changed for the fee for elections as well? No, you know you are for votes are allowed to count. And then he's basically contempt scales. I think as excited as I am about in Fantino making his exit, what are the actual give me a percentage chance as the information we have now that you think he will be gone in the next year because by my understanding he has to just have to be defeated by a challenger right? And that challenger as we noted has to have a majority support and there are a few federations where that won't that be more easily said than done. So Tyler, percentage chance that in Fantino is still fee for president next year. 60 to 70% in my opinion that he is. I think I think the most likely scenario is that he has it is yeah. And I think it's because from everything I have read, he and the reporting I've seen, he is not at all considering resigning. He is not at all considering not running for president. Now maybe there is something that comes out that really does force him. Maybe there is some sort of like if this comes out, it's going to destroy you. So you can either step down or it's going to come out. Maybe that would force it. Otherwise I think he is going to fight tooth and nail to keep power. I think you're going to have a ideally in my mind the best like the best one would be that he does decide to step down or he is defeated. But short of that, it's a contested fee collection in which you have one or two candidates challenging him. Everybody coalesces behind the one opposition candidate and it's close. And even there, if he ends up winning because I think it will take a lot to pry away some of the kind of committed voting block he already has, he just doesn't have the mandate anymore. He certainly doesn't have the support coming out of this world cup in which it was at the very least a smashing success on the financial side. It feels like he has kind of consolidated power and consolidated commitment and belief behind him. Hence all of the letters of support. It felt like that was where he felt like yeah, I can do whatever I want. He was emboldened to try to make structural changes and keep himself around. And there's just no way you can win an election if it's contested and acrimonious and then think, I mean, I guess infantito could, but it feels like he is, it's going to be a sort of lame duck situation if he does end up winning. And like the 64 64 team world cup that felt like it might be a foregone conclusion. There was already opposition to it. I don't see how he then is able to effectively force that through. So that's kind of my most realistic scenario is he wins again, but doesn't really have any power or the mandate to actually do a lot of the things that he wanted to do to further solidify his power. I would put the number for him to stay at 20%. I think he has, I think he's finished effectively. I think these things always go with along the lines of group think and UEFA are just so powerful in world soccer and for them to be so emphatically against him to the point of they've not been appeased by the, by the, the canceling of the, the plans they want him gone. And I think we're now going to see Sephiron and UEFA really flex their, their muscle. And I'm not convinced we're going to see a reform of FIFA like I'm not convinced that we're not in this, we're not in this situation a few years down, down the line, but I would be surprised if infantino contests that election in March. And this is pure speculation, and I know we get comments, you know, not people, people who don't like us talking about politics and relation to soccer. How do we talk about this story without pulling, but without pulling politics into it? They're completely intertwined, but I, and this is pure speculation. I wonder if he's talking to the Trump administration about that UN role that was reported a few weeks ago, and that is maybe his get out here where he saves face and doesn't contest that election, and he can sell it as I'm moving on to the United Nations. So I, I, I do think just listening to people who know a lot more than me, people like Martin Ziegler, Ben Jacobs, and a lot of the athletic guys, of course, the Guardian guys as well. And it does seem like from inside sources, they feel like he's, he's, he's kind of done. Graham, I hear all that. My concern is, like, as we've already kind of talked about, it, it seems like there was two kind of divided blocks of Infantino and his FIFA support. And then you wave in the European nations. And isn't he just going to basically say, like, yeah, see, there's elite Europe wanting it to be their way or no way they want to be in charge. They're the corrupt ones. And then he kind of paints Europe as its own thing, whoever goes with, with Europe from Conkey Cat for the entirety of Conkey Cat as its own thing. But yeah, it's, you know, it's, I mean, I don't know how you do that when you're like, as kind of meshed with the present administration as he is to then be like, it's America. We don't need them. But I worry that he is able to effectively be like, yeah, this is just the old guard of Europe trying to control things. We, the new generation, because that's obviously what Infantino is. We represent the world. And like, I feel like that's going to be his way of spinning this and selling it. And it feels like plenty of federations are already inclined to hear that. Yeah, I think that's going to be the argument. And I go back to my point of like Asia's going to be key. Also things like his, his tangling set himself in, in a web of how he's, how he can count on backing from countries and promises that he's made to them already, that he might not be able to carry out now that he doesn't have support from the full FIFA membership block. So for example, Commable very much expect a 64 team tournament in 2030. Their present has openly spoken about how that is happening. That has yet to be voted through. So how are Commable going to feel if that is no longer feasible and now they don't have a 64 team world cup, keep in mind, they want a 64 team world cup, because they already feel aggrieved that they are not hosting the tournament on, on their own and the centenary of the world cup. They've got three games to start the tournament. So 64 team world cup would give them more matches if they don't get those more matches is Infantino really going to be able to count on their support. I'm, I'm not so sure, so I think they're still a lot of moving pieces here. But also that, that just in and of itself is so ridiculous and shows exactly how things are happening that like hasn't been voted on hasn't even been really discussed. But some federations are like, no, that's totally happening. What are you talking about? There could not be more clear of an indicator that he is just telling people what he needs to tell them and that he is backing himself as FIFA president to just push things through and get things done that he wants done the way he wants them done. And then it leads to more speculation of what was the original bid given to those three South American nations knowing that there was going to be further expansion so that they would get more games and it wouldn't just be the one that we originally told it would be. It all just feels like there's so many backroom deals and handshake deals and things that never come to light. The, the rot starts to become more and more apparent the digger we deep into this one. And just a minor minor note, but one that I think is like, it's just important for how difficult it will be for him to walk things back is like from everything I saw from those from the pitch for this, the change in the way FIFA was going to operate, like women's soccer is not mentioned at all. The women's world cup is never mentioned. There is no plan for how to monetize how to help grow, how to incorporate that into this deal. And so like it just further shows that that is a lip service thing that he does not care about. It is about the men's world cup and it is about the club world cup. That is how we consolidate money and consolidate power and everything else is secondary at best if not not even on the list. And so all of that to say, I don't know how he kind of gets back into the good graces of some organizations and finds a way to kind of rectify the situation so that even if he is there, I continue to think it just becomes this non-functional, dysfunctional situation for at least four more years. Yay. All right. Good stuff. Let's take one more quick break here when we come back. We're going to talk about Eddie Howard, Newcastle. What's going on there? Join us then. Welcome back to the Bulletin. Let's finish off today's episode with a little chat about Newcastle United. Eddie Howell has stepped down, resigned as Newcastle manager Graham. There are reports that he's burned out, but it's also been an interesting situ, perhaps happening at Newcastle, Anthony Gordon, Sandra Gnalli, Trips on the way out. Bruno Camarage may be gone by the time I finished this sentence. There's reports that the Saudis are losing their appetite, perhaps in not just Newcastle investment, but sports investment in general. Seems like it's not a completely happy camp up there as in James' part, Graham. Yeah. That's fair to say. And there's a whole lot of different strands that we can pull out here with this story. First thing to mention is the timing of this is very surprising and raises all sorts of questions. There was a point towards the end of last season when I thought Eddie Howell was finished as Newcastle manager, but then he got the backing of the club and I very much expected having come through the bulk of the summer that he would still be in that position for the start of the new season and keep in mind, he's taken charge of preseason games ahead of this new season. So the reason that he is given as your reference to Ryan, as he needs time to recharge and take a break, I think that might have held water at the end of the season. I don't know. I mean, that might be true. But I think there are also other things that are probably true right now going on with Newcastle. I think it has to be linked to the situation at the club right now because this has been another difficult transfer window for them, more key players leaving, yet more struggles in terms of bringing players in. And so I think how has made a decision, one part out of disgruntlement and another part out of self-preservation where if he leaves now before things truly fall apart in Newcastle, which I don't know that that's going to happen, but it's a possibility. And this is very much not his team now. This is them entering another, another era, I guess. And so he's having to start again in a lot of ways. I think if he leaves now, Eddie, how has got a good chance of landing another top job? If he doesn't, and Newcastle end up in the bottom half of the table again, then maybe his stock takes a hit. So I don't think it's quite as straightforward as Eddie, how is making out in that statement that he gave. USMT gig is taken now, Eddie. Sorry, that one's closed. Take a little bit open in a couple months, though, so you could just get that step right up. Would you rather have Eddie Howard Thomas Dukele, right? Thomas Dukele? Really? That's not the answer I thought you were going to give. I've come down after the Argentina game a little bit. I think I'm willing to accept that he is quite pragmatic and a good coach who can probably have a few more weapons in his arsenal than Eddie, how is that fair? Does Thomas Dukele have any Martinez right now? Like what is happening? What is going on that has led you to have this about face? Was it in about face? I just said I thought he'd be fired, and I'm surprised he has, and I'm still surprised he wasn't fired. But here we are. He got to define a four-of-a-walk cut. I also want Thomas to call this day a single manager, so there's a consensus on this. No, I don't anymore. Speaking of organizations that are somewhat working, let's talk about Newcastle, shall we? To your earlier point about their recruitment. I just want to stay up front. I am so confused by everything Newcastle. You could really tell me anything, and I might believe it, because things just seem so dysfunctional, but it doesn't make sense why they are, and from what I understand, it is essentially that the PSR rules are really limiting how much the PIF can actually influence things and actually make changes, plus there were the financial restrictions put in place by, was it UEFA? Who sanctioned them? Or was it the FA who ended up sanctioning them or the Premier League? No, I think it was UEFA, right? I don't think they've had it. For the stadium sale leaseback deal that you're not allowed to do anymore. So it does seem like on that level, PSR is doing what it's supposed to do specifically to Newcastle. Then there is maybe changes in the investment strategy of the PIF itself, and that I think export is not included in their 2026 to 2034 year plan. So maybe there's something there. I just don't understand ultimately why they cannot recruit, because you would assume that it's Premier League. It's a ton of money. There is this targeted growth, and yet all of their signings this window have been with the exception of one. I want to say like 21 or younger. It feels like they're going with a youth route. It seems like they've missed on so many different targets. They haven't been able to keep their key players in the team. I just don't understand what it is about Newcastle that seems so toxic or at the very least so inefficient. Yeah, I mean, that's the most confusing part of the story for me, because I think it makes some sense that they are moving those key players on. For huge fees, like 100 million for Sandra Tanali, maybe it was the justified and wise decision to sell them for that. It's their struggles in bringing players in. I mean, we're talking 10 plus players now that they have got to the point of it seemingly being done. They've almost been given the Fabrizio Romano, here we go, treatment. And then they've lost out right at the last moment, so it's been Johan Manzambé in this window. James Trafford for the second consecutive summer with James Trafford, this has happened. Last summer as well, it was the same with Mathes Kunia and Brian and Blamo, who both went to Manchester United, who go like a TK before he went to Liverpool and then Liverpool took Alexander E-Sack for good measure as well. This has happened a lot of times now. And my only suggestion, and I should mention there's a really good piece by Chris Weatherspin for the Athletic on the behind the scenes stuff and on how Newcastle's strategy has shifted. And now it seems like they're more intent on being a sort of Borussia Dortmund than when they were bought by the PIF by the Saudi PIF, it seemed like they were going to be the next man-setter or PSG, and that just doesn't seem likely now. But there's been a huge amount of boardroom upheaval these last two years, and I think that has to have had a real impact. I mean, they've gone through three different sporting directors in under three years. Chris Weatherspin's piece highlighted how the departure of Amanda Stavley in particular was a big thing, and how a lot of the club's direction came from her, and she was really the liaison between the Saudi ownership and then the football leadership. And I believe she sold her stake, and she's now investing in West Ham, so she's completely out of the picture for Newcastle. And so it kind of reminds me of Taylor Camembert, if we've actually talked about this on the show before, we definitely have, but it might be an off-air. It reminds me of the Edward Woodward Glazer's Manchester United situation that existed for a long time, where there were stories that Edward Woodward wouldn't get in touch with the Glazers to sanction a deal or get the money. And he wouldn't hear about it for like four days. And by which time the deal had completely moved on in another club had jumped in. Is that happening with Newcastle? Because otherwise, I struggle to explain what's going on with these transfers. I think that there's definitely something there, because from what I read, for like the fifth time of saying that on this episode, but reading is good. Reading and clinging on is both good. There's a call back for nobody. It seems like the narrative has been that they want Newcastle to turn a profit. And I don't feel like that was a thing that was ever really discussed before. And if you look at the way Man City operated, I think they are much more profitable and the revenues are high now. But that took an incredible amount of expenditure and maybe financial doping, hence some pending charges that are still around. But it took a long time for things to stabilize from Man City to become what they are at present, to then be able to have the kind of success and lucrative commercial deals that they now have that are more on the up and up. And I think for Newcastle, it seems like they now want this to happen very quickly. I think that is reflected in the the PIF in their plans for the next four years. And it seems like never mind, we're not just going to pump money into support anymore. We're divesting from golf. We're like starting to slash funding to the teams in our own league. And we don't want to just kind of sink money into Newcastle, they need to be able to turn a profit. And that's where Graham, it feels like the pivot has been to be more of a baritone adortment. We're just going to keep developing and selling players. That's going to be our identity. But that definitely was not the way this was pitched or the way it was discussed when the takeover happens. And I'm sure that wasn't the message that was sold to Eddie Howe. I'm sure that was the message that was not sold to the players. And so if you go there thinking, oh, we're going to become the new Man City, we're going to challenge for titles, we're going to be winning in Europe. And then it's suddenly like, oh, no, actually, you can go for enough money and you can go for enough money. And we'll replace you with an 18 year old or a 19 year old. It just sort of feels like at the end of the day, they're going to kind of do what they need to do to make a profit, become more successful. But that doesn't mean that they're going to be successful in terms of winning silverware. And we have the sort of managerial equivalent of that in Matthias Yessler, who's going to be Eddie Howe's replacement, who is a really interesting appointment because he was someone who burst onto the scene at Salzburg as the kind of next Julian Nagelsmann in that he was prodigiously young. And then he went to the Saudi and his fashionist, but I think Yessler's fashion is a little bit better than Julian Nagelsmann's, but he went to Nagelsmann as a low bar, man. Yeah, he went to the Saudi pro league with Al Ali, which was a peculiar move. He's done very well there for whatever that is worth. He's won back to back AFC Champions League titles. And it did feel like a European move was on the cards. I kind of wrote about it in the newsletter earlier this year and how we could get a big European club. He is the disciple of Ralph Ragnac, who he played under. He was also Sebastian Hunis' assistant at Stuttgart. So Styla Play is very proactive, in a positive position, high energy control through use of the ball. And I do think Newcastle needed a bit of an evolution in terms of their identity. I felt like it had run its course, this sort of fast and furious quick transition style under Eddie Howe. So I actually feel like this could work for them, even if they're not going to be this mega club that everyone thought they would be. But Yasla is the equivalent of the manager of what you were talking about there, Taylor, where they brought in a young, up-and-coming manager. They've not gone for Pochino or Guardiola, or whoever, they've gone for someone that maybe most Premier League fans haven't even heard of. Yeah. And Graham, I appreciate all the work you've done there to inform us of who Yasla is, because I feel like you've maybe done more than Newcastle did, just like, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah, proactive, pressing. Are you going to rock the boat when we don't sign any of the players you want? No? Well, welcome aboard. That seems to be a huge part of our- Are you already on our peel system? Yes, exactly. Turn around. Let me see that's fine. So yeah, it's going to be an interesting season for Newcastle, and that model can work. And they could be very successful. And thus far, they've moved on players for a lot of money. I think it's just how quickly things have seen dysfunctional and broken down and then been repaired, but then broken down again. It just has not gone the way I thought it would. And ultimately, as depressing as it is, it's kind of a sign of the times. It is the drawback to being a rich person's play thing, like ultimately. And that's where I think sometimes it feels like the soul is being ripped out of the game as we talked about already within Fontino, but that's like the downside of it. For every man city, for every PSG, there's a malaga. There's a team that thought they were going to be the next big thing. And then the rich bankroll says, I never mind. We've got other areas of interest. And like the straight-of-home moves is closed and our oil profits weren't what we thought they would be. So no more money for you. And then suddenly, you've got to kind of find a way to navigate. And I think that is the downside to the massive takeover is sometimes the money isn't going to be there the way you thought it would be. And now you have to find a way to adapt. So indeed, fun times ahead for Newcastle. I'm imagining we'll talk about them a lot more. A Supreme League season approach is not least in our Premier League previews. They've got to be coming soon. When's the Premier League start? Tomorrow? Like three weeks, I think. No, not tomorrow. It's 20, 21st August, so I think it's the start of the Premier League soon. There we go. She's coming. Very good. I think that'll do it for a bulletin, because they plenty to discuss today. Taylor Rockle, thank you very much indeed for your contributions. And you, my friend. Thank you very much to Graham Rutheran. Thank you, Graham Billy. And Lister, thank you again for joining us on this one. We'll be back on the feed very shortly indeed, but for now, bye.
