Herculez Gomez on Futbol Americas (ESPN): "You go out in the round of 16, and not only do you go out in the round of ...

Early morning on a Manhattan sidewalk, a shooting caught on surveillance video. It was an assassination style killing, and everybody saw it. A new podcast series from ABC Audio in 2020 goes inside this captivating case. I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmeyer. Listen to burden of proof Luigi Mangione, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the latest edition of football America's right here on ESPN. Alongside Shaka Hislov, her Gomez, I am Mauricio Pedroza. Thank you for joining us. This looks awesome. This looks great. This looks grand. And we're about to have a grand show. Is Johnny Infantino against the ropes? And of course, a lot of leaks, cup action coming up in just a second. Also, who can crack the U.S. men's national team for the upcoming friendlies? And nationally, we are also joined by my real close friend, really good friend. What's up, Casey? Hey, very good gentleman. Good to see you guys. Good to see you as well. We'll be back with Casey in just a second. Let's get things started with a one-on-one conversation with Western McKinney. Just completed his second world recording, representing the U.S. men's national team. He's in conversation with Lisi Veccerano. Western joins us on behalf of Buma, who are now launching their new long-term NIL program. Let's take a listen. Western McKinney with Lisi Veccerano. So welcome to ESPN. Thank you. I want to start by asking about the world's cup. How was this experience for you? Well, experience was amazing. I think playing in a world cup before and then playing in a world cup on home soils, there was nothing like it. I think being able to bring the game and create new fans of the game here in America will help change soccer here forever. Now, it was amazing for me, amazing for my team, amazing to be with the guys, and to have our family and friends being able to come out and watch us in the biggest stage. It was great. Did you feel it was a step forward for the U.S. MNT from Qatar to this world's cup? I mean, I think obviously we got knocked out at the same time and same round. But if you want to look at the bigger picture of things of what this team was able to accomplish this tournament in terms of making the country believe, I think it's the only time, yeah, the only time that I've seen so many people in America be so into soccer. Whenever you played in Qatar, it was just like only the soccer fans that are watching the game, you know, really. But here you get to see it firsthand. So I think it was a big step forward. I think the way that we handled ourselves in the tournament, the way that we played. I think we played a different type of soccer that maybe, you know, if not the best type of soccer that we've played in our time being together. Yeah, talk to me about feeling the country behind you as a team. Obviously, the group stage kind of set a foundation. But how did that momentum really feel heading into the knockouts? Yeah, I mean, the momentum was amazing. I think obviously, you know, not winning the game against Turkey. Kind of, I guess, put not like a reality check on it. But more of just like, hey, like the first two games, it's not going to be how those games are and then the Turkey game happened and then going into the knockout stages. I think we just wanted to show people that the first two games that we played is who we really are and what we can accomplish and how we want to be seen and not to say that the Turkey game was bad, but not the result that we wanted going into a knockout stage. But I think against Bosnia, we came out and we came ready to try and get three points there. We obviously, from the sidelines, have a specific perception of what we see. But you just mentioned we wanted to show people who we really are. What does that look like for you and the team? I think for us, we're just such a close-knit group of guys and I think we just want to show that we're willing to do everything that we can to try and win a game and to, you know, make ourselves proud. I think at the end of the day, if we make ourselves proud, it'll translate to making everyone else proud to support us. And we want to show that. I mean, we're patriotic. We're ready to do anything and everything to succeed. Now, before I get into the Belgium game, we heard Valigan speak about the red card and the appeal of the red card and how that impacted the team. From your perspective, how did the team react to the internal announcement and were you guys aware of the backlash that FIFA received for the appeal? I mean, to be completely honest with you, probably the wrong person to ask for that because I don't really pay attention to the social media, especially during the World Cup. And, you know, I've learned that throughout my career. That's best to try and avoid as much as possible. But no, I think the team was, I don't think it was something that threw us off. I think, you know, we were excited to have them back. And obviously, he's an important player for us. But if he wasn't able to play, then we had other strikers that were able to step into the position and do what they need to do. So, I think, yeah, it was just an excitement for him to be back. We found out just like you guys. Really? And so, yeah. But I don't really think there's a lot of talk and a lot of drama around the red card and everything. But, I mean, we can't do anything for that as players. Right. And after the game, how did the team react to that loss? I mean, how any other team would, if they get knocked out of the World Cup? I think, you know, I think it was just more disappointing for us just because we know that we had the ability to go further and we wanted to go further. It just wasn't our day. And Belgium was the better team that day. But it hurts even more because, you know, you have to wait for more years for something like that. And, you know, that, the team that we played with in that game and the team that we had in this tournament will probably never be together again, the same 26 guys. And so, I think that's what the most disappointing thing about it because we have such a family-type group. And I was probably more emotional. I was emotional just staying by to the guys after the tournament when we got back to the hotel and trying to hold back tears and everything. So, yeah, those guys, you're with those guys for a month and a half and they become your family. And so, yeah, it is what it is. What would you grade this team's performance in the tournament? Um, what out of, like... Letter grade. Letter grade? We give, like, an A- Okay. And I don't know. That's, like, something I don't really like to answer. But, you know, I think for what we did in terms of the bigger picture of things because we had a goal in the last World Cup to change the way that the World Views American soccer. And I think this World Cup helped change the way Americans view Americans. And so, I think, although we didn't accomplish what we wanted to do, I think we inspired a country. I think we brought a country together. And for that reason, I think we can be proud of our performance in the World Cup. Now, I want to talk about this event and this initiative. There's an aspect of mentorship in this program. How does your experience throughout your career help you become a better mentor to these rising stars? I think, you know, I'm still to be fair. I kind of feel old in the game, but I'm not. And I think with the years that I've grown up in this game, you learn something new every day to be fair. From the different players that you play with, from the different mentalities you meet, from the different personalities that you meet as well, you take away a little bit of something from each of them. So, every day that I'm around other guys on my team, I'm learning something new. And then I'm able to pass that down to someone else that is coming up and rising and becoming a star themselves and just becoming a competitor and athlete and someone that wants to make it pro. So, that's something that I can always pass down. But I'm continuously learning still as well. All right, good chat by Lizzie with Western McKinney. Number one in the team with chances created. And then you see the rest of his stats, seven interceptions leading the team, successful tackles leading the team and second in recoveries in the third area, attacking third of the U.S. men's national team. So, we're back with Casey Keller on Football America. You heard him saying he grates the performance with an eight minus. Do you agree with that, great, Casey? I see you smiling. Yeah, I was thinking about this. And I was thinking that when you're in a class and you're at university and you sit down and the professor sits down on the first day and kind of tells you what the class is going to look like. And to me, it was like the professor saying, OK, there's going to be five tests. The final is going to be worth 50%. And I would agree with Western. He had an eight minus and an eight minus going into the final. And then unfortunately, they got about a 40% on the final and pulled their grade down to a C. And I think that was the tough part. Is yes, a lot of what he was saying was 100% right. The problem was that you completely changed a lot of that momentum with that horrible performance in the final, in what in the answers was the U.S. National Team's final game. So the A minus, the A going into the final, 50% of your grade, you've flunked it miserably and it pulled your grade down to a C. He alluded to inspiring a country, bringing a country together as a part of why he was grading the performance with an A minus. I don't think you agree with that A minus, but do you see cases reasoning logic? Yeah, I looked like an A or A minus before that final game, but then that game against Belgium changes everything completely, doesn't it? Yeah, I looked very good. And I agree with Western. There were a lot of Americans who jumped on the bandwagon. Jumped on the hype train and said, Hey, why not us? Absolutely, I believe. I want to see this, bought themselves a very expensive jersey, came out to a very expensive game, watched games on TV, felt very proud of being American. 50 million people watched the game versus Belgium. And a lot of those people who believed and wanted to jump on the bandwagon, like they do in other sports every four years, the Olympics. Yeah, if you will. After that performance, many of them ripped that jersey off and said, I didn't sign up for this. This doesn't represent me. No. So when you as a player, not my feeling, the actual pool or saying, what do you want out of this? We want to win the World Cup. That's what they were saying. That's what they were saying. And I feel that as a competitor. You have to believe you can do something. Perfect. But you said it. You put it out there. Your head coach puts it out there. To the President of the United States. How are you going to do this tournament? We're going to win the World Cup. So when you start building that narrative, and you go out in the round of 16, and not only do you go out in the round of 16, you go out in that fashion, with that type of beating, with that type of humiliation, and you add on top of that, the Faller and Balrogon FIFA incident. That situation. It's more than embarrassing. And I believe it raises it way down. Casey said, see, I think that's fair. I don't want to be too harsh on them. I think that's fair. A-, if Weston wants to talk about his own personal experience, or how he did on the field, maybe. Maybe we could make some evaluations to Weston getting close to an A. Maybe. But that's not what he's saying here. Talking about the World Cup team, and its general performance, it was not an A-. Check, is it fair to grade the performance, based on expectations? Because it's true. The Weston said it himself. Four years ago, three and a half years before, in Qatar, they were also knocked out in the same round. The round of 16, there was no way to that one stung the last four fans. Even though, remember the way he was portrayed? I mean, Vanguard completely outcoached Greg Berhalder. It didn't look fair, right? It wasn't a fair, fair game. But now, after losing four to one against Belgium, how did he land for you, in terms of Weston, like Kenny's saying, that he graced with an A-. It was the full World Cup performance. I don't see it as an A-. I mean, total agreement with Casey and Herk, that it's a C- at best. Now, you asked me, is it fair to judge on expectations? No, it depends on whose expectations are we talking about. Whether it's the casual US fan, who embracing her work up on home soil, embracing her work up, like, I had not seen from a US fan before now. Is it, are we basing it on the US team kind of seeing out low that, why not us to Herk's point? Which, again, I understand, as a player in this position and work up on home soil, you have every right to say that. In many ways, you can't see anything but. But truthfully, the expectation for me, for this US team coming into this work up, was a quarter-final. And if things go really well and you got really lucky, maybe you see a semi-final. But I thought a quarter-final was about right. They don't do that. I also feel that for all the good work, for all the positive that they were able to build, not just within the US, but certainly globally. And Western McKinney talking about in 2022, is about selling US Socrates in the rest of the world. I think they did that, as well as to the US, through the group stage, through the Bosnia game, and then it just came crashing down spectacularly. Now, you can't blame the players for the whole Balaghan situation and the politics of it and the optics of it. That's not them. But by the time the first whistle blew in that version game, the rest of the world were rooting against the US. I don't feel that was the situation in the first four games. Now, all of a sudden, with that, everything changed around the world's feeling around the US national team. Granted, that has got nothing to do with the players, but they bore the brunt of it. Even if he says that they were able to keep the noise away from Cam, that they were not influenced by that. I mean, whether we believe it or not, at least that's the message. You could do that back in my day. You could do that back in my day when you had no phone. I'm not sure how you keep that all that kind of thing. Now, Casey, after that performance, Mauricio Pochettino has resigned as a manager for the US Miss National Team with the expectation that he will be the manager in the World Cup in 2030. I want to get your thoughts on US Soccer and Mauricio Pochettino extending their professional relationship. Well, I mean, we talked about it before, the tournament, you know, at Nazum, that it was basically you've, you've three X-4 X-the national team salary, did they get the ROI? Did they get the return on investment? Look terrible in preparation. Didn't win gold cups. Didn't compete in any tournaments of any note. Yes, they beat the three teams. They should have beaten, lost against the two teams. They probably should have lost against. I'm kind of questioning where you're looking at this and going, yes, we need four more years of this at a blown out salary for US Soccer rates. So for me, I like the continuity. I like Mauricio Pochettino. I kind of like, look, what did I really like? In the 20 months of Mauricio Pochettino, I liked the first half against Paraguay. That's what I liked. That was where I went. Wow, that is what they paid for. But that's a lot of money for one half. And four more years, a lot more money for what we saw of one half. We were having this conversation with Ali and Herk that it's really hard to believe that Pochettino will see through his contract all the way to the World Cup in 2030. Shaq, do you see that happening? I don't see it happening. Not in 2030. I think you can make a case of Pochettino. You could similarly make a very strong case as to why the case is freezing. The ROI just doesn't stack on. But kind of given his flutations with the European clubs almost during the course of the entirety of his tenure, I for one was surprised to see him resign for the US, particularly for four years. I don't think those flutations stop. They stop the next four or five months as season starts and everybody kind of figures things out. But for me time managers find themselves in trouble. I think most of Pochettino will be our many a manager, many team owners shortlist and it won't surprise me in the slightest to hear of his representatives having those, or entertaining those conversations yet again, whether he can stay on for four years with that kind of noise going on around him, I doubt it. It's just one thing to stay on for 18 months or 12 months or six months when European clubs come calling because you've got the carrot of a worker birth right around the corner. Now we're talking four years, we're talking a qualifying process, so it's not guaranteed as we stand. I'm not sure Pochettino resists. There's just the other side of that coin as well. During the first part of his tenure, he got the benefit of the doubt that the only thing that mattered was the World Cup. You just got to get to the World Cup and the World Cup will be the ultimate indicator of how he does and we can grade him then. Well, this job, the reports were, the offer was on the table before the World Cup. Now it's not just the World Cup. Now it's okay. In Conca Caff, Mexico has now dominated again in Conca Caff. The expectation for the US men's national team is to win. They feel they have the roster to win certain tournaments. There's going to be those expectations now on his plate as well. All right, we'll have more conversation. Remember you can catch ESPN FC every single day available on ESPN Plus. Okay, we are standing up for this one. You know what that means? It means it's important. It's heavy hitting questions. Heavy hitting segment regarding what's going to happen with the US men's national team. Some players looking forward to what's coming up in October and November. So this was the starting 11 against Belgium. That lost in Seattle. And we can fairly say this was the starting 11 for the World Cup. And maybe the ideal for Mauricio Pochettino. Free single, Freeman Robinson, Reem Richards. And then we have the rest of the pack. Sir, in your desk, Anthony Robinson, McKenney, Tyler Adams, Malik Tillman, Policik, and Fullerton Balagun. So you guys are going to tell me again looking forward to what's coming up. Nation's league in November. The US already in quarterfinals. Each player is this player locked or is that position in play? Understood? Okay. So Casey, we'll start with you. What about Matt Freeze Angle? Is he locked or is he spot in play? I think the big question is, is who is performing in goal somewhere else to actually challenge Matt Freeze? It's not as if I look at it and I go, okay, Matt Freeze has done enough to lock this position. I think it's very similar the way it was before the World Cup. It's just lack of somebody else challenging him for that starting spot. So unless somebody emerges that I don't know about, then it looks like it's a lock. Check, agreed? I do. I just don't see a viable option to take the place of Matt Freeze right now. Nobody's played consistently enough either for club or in particular for country to suggest that. Mercy Portraitino is going to show faith in anyone else. He's shown faith in Matt Freeze almost from day one. I don't see that changing despite how we work a finish for Matt Freeze without layering it against. All right, so we have 10 more players, Herc. You want to... I think it's... I think it's a... I'm maybe outnumbered right here, two to one, but I think it's an in-play for me. Oh, okay. You won? He doesn't have the experience. He may have had the experience of now playing in the World Cup, but his inexperience showed at the World Cup. And the other guys who seem to be not playing happen to play in the same league that he plays in. Matt Turner, New England, Chris Brady, Chicago. Now you have a Diego coach who's playing as well. I don't think it's as cut and dry and there could be a situation right before the window where Matt Freeze makes another mistake. And people are like, hey, hey, we've got to rethink this. So I just don't think it's a lock. Even before the World Cup he wasn't set that he was going to be the starter. He's staying with you, Alex Freeman, about to start his first full season with Villarreal at 22 years old. Yeah, I don't see how he's not a lock for the U.S. men's national team. He may not be a lock for Villarreal because we've seen that in the past. It was a mid-season loan, and we know how those take time. But I do see him as a player that Marisa Pogetino is going to look not only in the present, but for the future. I don't think anybody is moving him in that right-back spot. Unless it's him due to suspension or injury, he's a lock. All right, so for Herk, he's a lock, Casey, Alex Freeman, lock, or in play. Yeah, I know, I think that it's all about how much playing time is he going to get a Villarreal? Is he going to be loaned? Is he going to be what that situation is? But it still doesn't change the fact that what he's done in that right-back spot, it's his position to lose. Yeah, check. Yeah, I agree. Alex Freeman is a lock. Yes, questions are so many minutes you'll get a Villarreal, but we're talking about November. And I don't think there's enough of a gap there to suggest that he loses a spot. We have the same conversation, and he doesn't feature regularly for Villarreal. Come March, then that's a very different conversation we're having around Alex Freeman. But right now, I think in November, I don't think there's any question he starts. And Shaq, what about Chris Richards? He showed up to Cam, still nursing and injury, started playing right when the World Cup started, but he's one of the best players in this squad. He's the best defender that the U.S. have. I think it's a lock in terms of defense and defense and stability. You've built the wrong Chris Richards. I don't see that as being much of a question as to whether he's in play or a lock. It's a lock. One of the easiest locks, not her? Maybe one. Yeah. Simple as that. All right. So let's move on, Casey, to team Ream. What do we do with team Ream? Because he's the experienced player, captain, but maybe the level that he showed was not what was expected from him. Well, it's not just that. It's, you know, father times undefeated. And Tim is, you know, in that situation where you're now building towards the future. And, you know, what I would love to see is a great farewell game for Tim at some stage. But I think Tim's the guy that's going to step aside and somebody, and then you're going to start looking for that new partnership with Richards. So it is in play, right, Jack? Absolutely, it is in play. I'll be very surprised if Tim Ream starts coming November. To Casey's point, 30 years old. At some point, you've got to move on. I'll be honest, I'm surprised. I was surprised that he featured as having as he did during the course of the workup. But surely the time has come for Tim Ream to move on or more at the point, somebody else to fill that spot. Yeah, I think it's definitely not an in-play. I think it's a farewell, as Casey said. I see a scenario where Tim Ream maybe stops playing football in the very near future. And somehow steps into a role with Marisa Puchudino. He seems to be of the confidence. Somebody said, Puchudino, he offers a lot in terms of tactical stability and know-how and leadership to this group. Something like that. But his days of being a start and center back to the US men's national team are long gone. All right, Herc. Serginio Dess, 25 years of age, already nine World Cup games in his back. But as we know, injuries have always been an issue for him. And we're looking forward to November. So, is his spot locked or in play? I don't think it's locked. I like Serginio Dess and I like him a lot. I like what he offered, what he did offer in the World Cup in that position. But Tim Ream wasn't a guy who got a lot of opportunities. And when he did, he didn't necessarily play well down the left-hand side. That right-hand side, that's his side. I can see a situation where, whoever the hottest hand come November, will get that confidence. He's not necessarily a lock for me in that wing position. I think it all matters of who's healthy, whether it's policy, whether it's a desk, whether it's a way of which one comes in and one of those positions, but he's not necessarily a lock for me, no. So, not a lock for Herc, Casey, what about for you? Yeah, I think, again, I think he's probably favored, particularly against teams where you're not necessarily going to need a big defensive presence from that position. So, but I agree with Herc that I think when we look at kind of that wide midfield, wide attacking midfield role, it's one of our deepest positions. And so, it could easily be a situation like who's in the most form and who's been playing more or who's not dealing with some sort of injury. And so, yeah, I think there's some possibilities there. Is it kind of the same... So, it's already two to one, Shack. Yeah. Right? No, yes. It's just... They outnumbered you already if you were going to go for a lock. Yeah, no, you should play. What about Anthony Robinson? The other side of the field. Same position, other side of the field. What do we make of Anthony Robinson? Four years older than Sergenia Dest. Listen, I am sold in Anthony Robinson. I admit I'm not that sold on Sergenia Dest. I am sold in Anthony Robinson. He keeps fit. And he plays. I think he offers an upside almost like any other in this US national team, particularly in the back four. Alongside Chris Richards, I think easily the two most talented defenders that the US can call on, as long as he avoids injuries, I'm picking Anthony Robinson. That's a lock for you, Herc. I think Shack just said the best if he's fit. Yeah. I think that's the caveat. That's the asterisk you have to put on any decision with Anthony Robinson. Affinity Robinson is one of the best left backs in the Premier League. And Anthony Robinson dealing with some injury. There are a lot of doubts there, including the start in 11, but he's a lock for me. All right, so he's a lock. Casey, I'm guessing you agree with this one, right? Yep. All right. So let's move on fast. Western McKenney. We just heard from Western McKenney at the beginning of the show about to start his seven season in Syria with Jubeh. Herc, you take it away. No, he's a lock. He's been one of the best players in Syria in the last season. He's in special for Juventus. Obviously for Juventus. He's one of the best players the US national team has. He can play a bunch of different positions. He gets you out of a lot of different things. As a presence, aerial presence, defensively, and offensively, I think it'd be very difficult to move a player like Western McKenney out of this 11. How crucially is he Fort Puchatino, Casey? Well, I think he's really crucially. I mean, I think what we saw was there was a question mark early on in Puchatino's 10-year. Just kind of what was the commitment level? And I think clearly there was, I don't know, about a conversation, but we saw a different Western McKenney in those, you know, that last year. So if that attitude continues, continue lock. No question. And it's also a question of that. Are there any other players that can fulfill the things that Western McKenney does for the US national team? No, that's an easy answer for me. Not at all. Western McKenney, far too talented. There are other options of Puchatino. Certainly that offer the experience and the high level experience that Western McKenney does. He's an easy lock for me. Is there any competition for someone like Tyler Adams, Casey, or is he also one of the East's locks in this dynamic? Well, the biggest question we've had with Tyler over the last several years is just injuries. Can you count on him? And he was obviously fit for the World Cup and was a huge bonus. Again, I'd go a little bit what Herk said earlier with Anthony Robinson. If he's fit, he's a lock. No question. And I hope he has one of those seasons where there isn't ten weeks here, eight weeks here, six weeks there that he's on the sideline. I hope he has one of those great consistent seasons where he's playing weekend and week out and playing the way we know he's capable of playing. For Shaq, Sebastian Berghalter made a name for himself during the World Cup. The minutes that he saw, he played really well. Now he's made the German playing at Borough already saw some minutes. Could he be the player? I'm not going to say just to compete against Thair Adams, but at least, you know, make Maudi Puchatino wonder, is it a spot for him and maybe not having Tyler Adams as such a luck as we think he is? I still see Berghalter as a squad player if it's up against Tyler Adams. And the only question here, similarly to Jonathan Robinson, is about Tyler Adams, his fitness, his injuries. The way Tyler Adams plays the game, he goes at it a hundred miles an hour. He doesn't know how to play any other style. That means he picks up a few more injuries than other players would. He has no break pedal. As long as he stays fit, I pick him and that is no disrespect to Berghalter. That is all about how talented, how highly I read Tyler Adams, particularly his leadership qualities in this team. Yeah, the like for like for Tyler Adams isn't a Sebastian Berghalter. It's two guys who didn't make the World Cup in an Aiden Morris and a Tanner Testman. They weren't part of the World Cup. That's potentially the next one up, next man up, if you will. But Tyler Adams, if healthy, hasn't allowed the next man up for almost eight years. And what about Malik Tillman? He's a very special player. When you think about this World Cup and per 90 minutes played, I'm not saying that he was one of the best in the US men's national team. He was one of the best players of the World Cup per 90 minutes played. When you look at his progressive passing, when you look at his movement, when you look at the type of player he was in the midfield, he was as good as anybody per 90 minutes played. He's a special player that I think, might as well put you to lean down early on in his tenure, aching him to, now I'm forgetting the name, the Spurs player, that way that he compared him to early on in his tenure. Oh, Delialli. Delialli, thank you, sir. Yep. Which shows you the special talent. Maybe Delialli didn't fulfill the potential one would of hope, but he was a special player for Pochettino. And he thought of him that way. And he turned out being that player at the World Cup. I think this is one of the easiest locks. Casey, has he done enough to be considered a lock on this scene? Yeah, I mean, I think what he really did was, he appreciated himself to the coaching stuff, by not taking a summer off, and coming and playing in tournaments, and playing matches, and proved himself. And he then continued to grow in status, and he's been one of the most consistent players under Pochettino. And so, yeah, I mean, unless something crazy happens, yeah, he's the lock. All right, so far, we have just team Reem, who we all understand, is about to retire. He has an endless risk of a year, and it's a genius-desting play. The rest seem like a lock. So, and I think I got to start adding Christian Polisik as well. That's a lock. Anybody would disagree with this? You would. All right, Shaq. Here we go. And I say this, a fit Christian Polisik is a no-brainer in terms of him being a lock. Yeah. But injuries all year long, coming into the workup, injuries during the course of the workup, to the point that Pochettino has to figure out how to play without a Christian Polisik. And I think that's the issue here. Given the year he had, given the kind of year he had, I'd both, well, particularly for club, but also for country. I'm not sure how much he features to start, to start by this season, this European season, and how good he is, his form. That he has to focus on his club career as much as anything. And Pochettino has to think about, what do I do without a Christian Polisik? So, as a result, for November, I think that's in play. Eric? I also think it's in play. And I don't just feel it's in play for Marty's supporters. You know, I feel it's in play for Christian Polisik. Casey will remember John O'Brien, the special talent that John O'Brien was. He's given me these type of vibes, Casey, where it just feels like the player himself may take himself out of the equation for his own, maybe mental state, or benefit, or whatever he thinks is necessary for himself. I really get this type of vibe with them. Casey? Well, I think we're going to find out in the friendlies, and kind of does he do take himself out? Or is he 100% committed for the friendlies in September, October? Now, what I would say is, I would say, I think Shaka, you know, talked about it a little bit earlier when if November might be two, or I think he was talking about Freeman, where I think he's a lock for November. I think if the friendlies don't go well, and November doesn't go well, then I think he may come into play, particularly if his form at AC Milan is not where it was at the start of last season. All right. And finally, following Badagun, three goals at the World Cup. That number nine spot was always in play, not only during Mauricio Pochettino's stand, but going back to their halter as well. How important is going to be for Badagun to have a hot start at club level? Yeah, just stay away from spurs, and I think that may be possible. So do what you did to do, Flo, but keep yourself out of me and keep yourself going. So is he a lock right now? Yeah, honestly, if anybody's a lock in this team, it is a following Badagun. He's done something that no other forward since 1930 is done. Lock. Lock. Casey. Lock. Yep. Yep. This used to be the big element of conversation and debate on this show, the number nine spot. He was never a lock, but it seems that what he's done... 4 November. Yeah, we're talking about 4 November. He didn't realize that. 4 I'm talking about. All right. 3, 4 years from now. 4 November. Casey, you're always a lock on this show, but sadly, we have to let you go for now. Thank you, guys. I'm going to go ahead and lie and say, it's always good to see you. But Casey. Let's put Casey. Thank you, Casey. That's Casey Keller, joining us in football Americas. Let's run it back, picking up Sebastian Bearholder Herk, first official game with Borough, and first assist for Sebastian Bearholder. Yeah, Sebastian Bearholder. Look, normally it's with his foot that he's playing supplier, but very nicely brought down with his head. He's fitting it quite nicely. It's only been a couple appearances, but the man is putting up assist already. All right. You can catch the community shield this Sunday, Arsenal, Premier League champs against Montenegro, FA Cup champs, that's this Sunday, 10 a.m. Eastern on ESPN, ESPN Plus, and ESPN, the port of this. Any glider could be on his way out from Liga M.E.K. his Al Jazeera of the United Arab Emirates have reportedly made a significant offer for the 26-year-old with Grosasul set to be considering also around $14 million for his transfer. Liga, though, has made it clear that his priority has been a move to Europe, Sir Herk. If you were in Liga's ear, what would you suggest he does? Yeah, if you want to go be a reporter at Al Jazeera, you can be a reporter after you finish playing football. You don't need to go now to this is not by the way. But it happened for Hulianquinyones, and it was great for Hulianquinyones. There's a difference between Emirates and his body pro league. Even our different leagues. And from what I saw of Edik Lida, he was so good at the World Cup, albeit at his level. Whatever case you want to make there, but he was one of the best players on the Mexican national team and had very good football. But for the rest of the world, six months ago, they didn't know Edik Lida. And now he's a player who's 26 years of age. It's the price tag here that scares me. Grosasul is entertaining an offer for $14 million from Al Jazeera. They see the price tag there. Maybe his market value is not $14 million. Maybe a 26 year old with limited international experience for the rest of the world isn't worth that. Doesn't mean that he's not that good of a player, but you're not going to get $14 million in the open market. The reports are Monaco. I would love for him to go to a team like Monaco. I would love for him to go anywhere else in Europe and test himself because I think he's that good of a player. But the reality is he's 26 years old and this needs to make sense. Not only for the club who's purchasing them, but for Grosasul and Edik Lida, I'm glad that he, per reports, said no to Al Jazeera. He's got time to go make more money. He's a rich man already. Go make even more money later if he wants. But it sounds like he wants Europe. And to me, that's where he should be. Now, Shaq, it's not always that the club priorities and player priorities are aligned. This would be a record sale for Grosasul $12 million for a Mexican player. But obviously, as Herch said, Lida has a different plan. Make the jump to Europe. How hard sometimes it is to have both ideas on the same path? Well, the player will take priority, of course. In his own affairs, he wants to play in Europe. That's his ambition right now. I think that opportunity right now does not get any better. Give him the work of that he had. Give him the fact that he's 26 years old and the further we go from, those worker performances, obviously the older he gets and the less attractive he is to European clubs to take that gamble on Erickler, who has not played in Europe before. So you recognize how tight this window is. And to Herch's point, you go to Europe. You play in Europe. You do well. Those options to go out to the Middle East only increase as a result. So those options to finish off your career, making a whole lot of money, they'll be there if you perform on the European stage. Now, here's the thing. People like me said after the World Cup, these would be a big opportunity for Mexican players to show their talents to the world and make the jump to Europe. Because we keep saying the only way to improve and be more competitive is try yourself at that European level. Isn't it warism that there's no really a market for Mexican players to make the jump to the world? I think there is a market. Where is it? It's just not the market that the Mexican press wants. Well, we haven't even heard from all their offers. And all the time we have heard from offers, but say, I'm just going to give you a whatever example. This European club is interested in this whatever player. But the price tag is too high. Well, now we haven't heard that a lot. I'll give you an example very quickly. Israel Reyes, I think, is a very good center back and he's a player who could play as a right back. He plays a right back in this World Cup as well. And he could play as a defensive midfielder. He's a good stability player. Solid player. Roma was interested in them. There wasn't an offer. But there's a thing. The offer that Roma would give you would be around five million. Yeah. Six million. Same for Lira Monaco. Exactly. And club America is saying, oh, that's second. I could sell them to Cruzasulo, to Monterey, or to Tigres for 12 million. Why are we talking about this? That's where you priced yourselves out. There's an internal market within Mexico that the rest of the world sees. And it's not like, well, I gave you an offer and you didn't like it. It's starting point is how much? Okay. We're good. We're good. That's a problem here. It's not that Mexican players aren't talented. It's not that they don't have good development within Mexico. It's that the rest of the world knows about these prices. And there's also a body of work behind those prices. Chucuilo Sano, Diego Linus. There are players who haven't exactly blown the doors off of European competition. For them to keep coming back the way they do with Argentines. They do what they do with the Uruguayan or Brazilians. They're still an unproven commodity within Europe. Yeah. And it's not that clubs are even now bothering to ask, go knock the door and ask for a player. Speaking of talent, let's go to what happened in Mexico's over the weekend. This is the conca-caf on the 20th championship. And this is the game for the title. And it's at Estadio Azteca. 50,000 to see the classic of the conca-caf Mexico-estados unidos. 28-minute gambettos with a cross and the second header heard by Atlanta player Carlos Fernández, Mexico's leading. Yeah. Carlos Fernández is a center back with the header. There's some questions that go over the line. Does it not? I think it goes over the line. Even if it's not, it's a handball right there. They would have gotten a penalty kick. It's 1-0. Mexico opposite peace in the worst possible moment for the US youth national team. Set peace, you said. All right. Shaq, let's move forward to the 42nd minute. The goal was given even the goalkeeper and the defender with a clash at the goal line. There's the confirmation of the goal. Now, let's see what happens. This is Christopher Applewhite, poor control. And then brings Hugo Conmedos down. The referee originally says yellow card, goes and checks on VAR check, and then changes his decision to straight red thoughts. As a foul, I did not think that was a straight red. I think the uncertainty comes around whether it's the Navagos scoring opportunity, the defenders are round up wide when positioned to make cover on Conmedos. That's where I think the decision was made. As a challenge, as a red card challenge, stand alone challenge. Yellow was fair if it was a foul. If it's the Navagos scoring opportunity, then we're having a different conversation. Yeah, Shaq. Yeah, this is valid. I think you're right on the money here. If this tackle isn't there, he goes on in a 1v1 prize course. Second half, Shaq. I'll leave you to this. No, no, no, no. Why don't you check that? It happens. You know, it happens. It's a low sun. It's a low sun that has taken this time of year. And it's a brace for each goal of the Atlanta player. Yeah, it's a... Yeah, he knows. He knows Shaq. He knows. And Mexico lives the trophy under the rain at Estadio Estica. They win the Concacaf Under-20 Championship. And with this, they basically complete the Concacaf challenge. They've won it all. They won the Under-15, the Under-17, the Under-20, and a club-level championship. And at a senior level, Concacaf Nations League and Concacaf Gold Cup. So the fact that Mexico has regained its position as El Gigante de la Concacaf, dominating, as you said before, on the show, the region... What do we make of this? What has changed with Mexico that they're now in possession of every single trophy available in Concacaf? Well, I think one of the biggest changes for Mexico is Andrés Lillini, who is the director of football operations for the Mexican national team. I'm excuse me for the Federation. And the Duel Recruitment, or the excuse me, the Recruitment of Duel Nationals. And how aggressive they've been with that. They've retaken the region. You can see throughout all their categories, the amount of Duel Nationals will help them do that. But they're just a better team when it comes to youth national teams, historically, in this region. Make what you will of youth national teams. This U-20 Concacaf Championship will showcase some of the best players, if not just the best players that are age-eligible for this region. That's not the case. And it's not the case said the U-20 World Cup. And it's not the case of the U-23 Olympic level. There's always because of the alignment of calendar. There are ownership groups within Major League Soccer that think it's more important for them to play a leagues cup. There are players to play a leagues cup or to be in a preseason with Dortmund. Or for what other case may be, than them actually competing in a venue like a Stavio Estecca. I kind of understand the sentiment from being honest. You've got one quality game here. Both Mexico and the U.S. Steam World opposition. And they finally got a game of worth maybe in the semi's, maybe in the final. And that's it. Most clubs don't think it's in the development or best interest of the development of the player to allow them to go here. The United States youth national team. It's not an excuse for them. They lost. And it's not Mexico's problem. But the best players in that age group were not there. The best players in Mexico's age group were not there. These processes are for the development of players. Mexico's U-20 coach said, he'll bet the Montes past this. Vargas is past this one. I'll bet he's older. But he'll bet the Montes past this. There are some players in the U.S. that are past it. Some that aren't. That could have been there to help. But we're not allowed to help. Mexico and the U.S. had already punched a ticket to the Under-20 World Cup. And the Mexican was back at playing at the Olympic Games. The U.S. had already qualified being host nation. But will you see the list, Shaq? Is there really a gap this big between Mexico and the rest of the field in Kongakaf once you see that one nation has won all the trophies available? Well, there's certainly a gap between Mexico and the U.S. and the rest of Kongakaf. I don't think that's a toll of the debate. It then becomes about U.S. and Mexico and how they compete against each other. And to explain how they continue their development cycles at every single level. At every single competition. It's impressive to see Mexico as dominant as they are in every single age group. But ultimately, you're judged on what the senior team does. It's all how it feeds into the senior teams on both the men's and women's teams. And that is all that truly matters. Everything else kind of is an indicator of what that may look like in a few years. So if you consider that, Andredlilini joined the Mexican Federation at that level in March of 2023. Two months later, Mexico was winning the under 17 Kongakaf and then the under 15. And then you move forward all the way to this point. Let me put it in this term. Is it something, nothing, or everything, this sweep by Mexico? Oh, it's definitely something. Listen, if you're a U.S. fan, you can feel embarrassed. And maybe you should feel embarrassed about this. But this is a problem within youth sports in this country that we always talk about. We talk about actual development. And we always hear the, hey, the score doesn't matter. It's about developing. Do you worry about how they play, not if they win? Well, here it's a win thing. And what would argue is, I think Mexico has very talented players. I see this U20 team and some of the names on there. And there are a few names that stick out. Santi San Loval from Chivas. And Oucamberos from Chivas. And then you look at the numbers of an Oucamberos who was the leading goal score of this tournament. And you're like, this kid played 130 minutes one season and the season before that another 130 minutes. And when you about him two years ago. And when you about him two years ago, Mel. So why is any playing for Chivas now? And you're like, what's going on here? Why aren't these players graduating to the next level? There's not even the excuse that well foreign players are coming in, right? It's only Mexico players. But that's what I'm getting at. So if you're a team like Dortmund, you're like, I have Mattis Alba right here. And he's age-rubeligible. But why am I going to send them to the concaf U20s? You know, Red Bull, Julian Hall. I'll just let him continue to play with men. What about Mehmedi? I'll let him do the same. Kevin Sullivan scored the other day because Nick Aksa. And then, you know, Justin Ellis. And then, Jutari. And there's a list, a laundry list. And you could say, why aren't they there? Why aren't they there? Well, because they're playing against grown men against League of Mekis players. Or what are the case, maybe, but they're not playing against kids who still hasn't graduated to that level. Yeah, let's see how that eventually translates to dominate at a senior level. Mexico keeps dominating, or the U.S. now, with Mauricio Portardino stealing charge, they can make a run for Mexico's money. Now, this happened during the medal on trophy presentation. Losing at the booing. At Miguel Arriola, who's Mexico's soccer federation president, the people are protesting the no longer existence of a promotion and relegation, Shaq. So, give it to the people to make the voice being heard by booing the president of the federation. They're absolutely right in no honesty. Given that that story and the issue of this no promotional relegation, dating back to the pandemic and why that hasn't been addressed, I think the fans are absolutely right to ask those questions and to voice their discontent in this way in the most public of ways. And it's not only promotion and relegation, that's part of it. It's also a statement from the Mexican soccer federation backing Janine Fantino. Correct. That has caused a big, big... It's both because you saw the video of someone posted on the plane challenging Miguel Arriola wanting promotion and relegation. I'll say a few things here. I think he's a commissioner of a league essentially. That's what he is. And people have a... Maybe the wrong idea of what a commissioner does. He's bulletproof vests, he's a shield. They are a shield for the owners. Think of it for the owners. That's what they do. Shaq, what if I told you in the Premier League, they're going to do something different with promotion and relegation. They're going to make it where it's going to be a three-year process and a percentage. So a percentage of those three years, and based off those three years, the worst team out of those three years will get relegated every year. And the team that gets promoted goes out the same percentage. So if you win in your first year, you shoot straight up. But if you lose, you're right back there. Does that seem right? No. That is Mexican football. Which is why I sometimes think it's fake outrage. It's fake out. I want there to be a healthy, lower division pyramid in Mexico. One year like the rest of the world. Don't protect the big boys. Right. Don't protect the big teams. No. Like the rest of the world. If not, all you're doing is your fomenting more of this mediocrity, of owners protecting owners. And I'm not with that. I want an extra promotion relegation with the Mexican football. Yeah, 12 of those players representing Mexico are part of the second tier football that now has no shot at being promoted and playing first tier football. The Gianni Infantino saga doesn't stop. And it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon. You if had already made their position very, very clear. Now alongside Conca Gap, except Mexico and the Asian Confederation. They have joined UEFA and expressing to this joint letter their position on the matter. When trust is broken through deception, when an individual places himself above the collective that entrusted him with authority, that duty has been abandoned. Attempting to sell interest in the FIFA World Cup was a profound failure of judgment. A fundamental breach of trust. It is not the conduct of a custodian of the game, but of the one who believes the game is answerable to him. Those shack are strong words. Gianni Infantino is looking to be reelected next year. Is Infantino with what we know from Conca Gap minus Mexico, UEFA and Asia? Is he against the ropes right now? Yes, yes. And I think it's a problem of his own making quite clearly. I think the history of Gianni Infantino is power is a hell of a drug. And that's what you saw. That's what you've seen during the course of his tenure. And it culminated in what we saw this summer, both during the workup and immediately after it. And now there's this, I fully agree with this statement, put out by UEFA Conca Gap and the AFC. About Gianni Infantino. To the point that I think there needs to be certainly an investigation into a lot of what happened during the course of this summer, both during and after the workup. And see what comes of that. While FIFA have said they will have an internal investigation, that is not good enough. And that has to be done by a third policy, by somebody independent. So everything that can be brought, everything that happened can be brought to light from the FIFA Peace Prize all the way through to where we are today. Without it, I think there's this inherent distrust around FIFA. Now, part of that issue is, there has always been an inherent distrust around FIFA, dating back to the Havalanj and then they said, this is no different. I think the fans are recognizing their power to change, to create a direction at for both highest level. You saw it with the European Super League, and I think this is a moment for fans to again, or FIFA to account, or insist at the very least, that FIFA consider them, first and foremost, in how will they do their business? Are they powerful enough? And by the way, I mean, Conquerco, FIFA, AFC, are they powerful enough? Is that statement powerful enough to make us believe that Janine Fantino will be forced to resign before the elections? Well, March 2027. Is what we saw powerful enough to make us believe that Infantino could step aside? Absolutely to make us believe, because we want to believe in the good. We want to believe that evil will always succumb to the light, to the good. Will it actually happen? That's another story. I agreed with everything Shaq said except one thing. This is historic. Whenever you've ever seen open letters implying for the president of FIFA to resign. Now, it's all good and fair, and what these open letters are basically implying is that you don't resign. There could be no vote of confidence. And then once that vote happens, you call into question his ability to properly lead with integrity, FIFA, it'll go to a vote. 106 would be majority vote, the 211, you know, member associations. These elections, these votes don't happen. They don't matter through open letters. They don't matter to backroom lobbying, and that's what Johnny Infantino would be at his best. With what he has right now, does he have enough? No. But we've already seen concaf said, this is what we believe. And Mexico said, that's not what I believe. And there are Caribbean nation, Central American nation, Asian nation. Every single nation has the same vote, which carries the same weight, regardless of what type of resources you bring to the game. And that right there is powerful. Shack, you said power is a hell of a drug. He still has power. And he has lobbying power. He still has power. The fact that he could not complete, thankfully, the sale of the commercial elements of the World Cup. That means that he was tasked to complete that. He didn't do it. He didn't deliver. Someone who backs him, it's not happy with Johnny Infantino. We'll know who that is. So now he's in limbo. He was not able to fulfill that power act of creating an entity to commercialize the World Cup in a different way by a private entity. And at the same time, he now has created powerful enemies. I would be surprised if Johnny Infantino is FIFA's president by March of 2027. I think this is just the beginning. And that would be very, very surprised if this doesn't cost Johnny Infantino to step aside before the election. I'd be very surprised if he does. I think if FIFA held an election tomorrow morning, Johnny Infantino would win. And while, again, I agree fully with the statement as put out, UEFA, what, 52-53 nations, they're unified as a calf, African continent. They are 54 voting members, I believe. So those two cancel each other out. And while Conca Calf signed on to this letter, I'm not sure that it's unified. Yeah. I think if it came not to a vote, there would be a significant break-off for Oregonian and Infantino. While the letter is signed by Victor Montagliani, Conca President, I'm not sure that that means that Conca are unified in all this. And I'm tempted to say the same about the Asian Football Confederation. While the President signed up on these letters, I'm not sure that 100% votes with the Confederation Presidents. And then that's because of the distrust that you've mentioned that we all have had within FIFA. FIFA has not given us a reason to trust it. Throughout my adult history, I can't think of one. It's self-serving. And this self-serving issue is what got Johnny Infantino into trouble. He went out and tried to literally fast forward, excuse the pun there, and fast-tracked this move with private equity without consulting the members of the association. And that's what that rogue event is what's causing the stir here. And not even he's in their circle at FIFA. That's also a call for concern. If he cannot be longer trusted by his inner circle. Follow NWSL action this weekend. Angel CD facing Washington Spirit that Sunday, Prime Time, 9 p.m. Eastern on ESPN. Leaks Cup on the way. Look at the America fans in Portland. One of the CDs with Best Soccer Tradition in America. Fifth minute, Herc. And this is El Reyito who's back and better than ever. Is this the best Leaks Cup goal so far? Look at that beauty. That's a good one. It's a very good goal. Listen, it's on turf and many are going to say so what is so much more difficult to hit that like that on turf. And look at that movement. It's a goal. Look at that dim. That is some dim. It gets us going. No, even Shaq can stop that. I don't know. He gets prime. Nineteen minute, quota. Next mistake. Cristo Fervel remembered the name. Drops to defenders. And then Shaq scores. All tie. That is a really well taken goal. Nice feet. Nice little shift here. Oh, Ramón Juarez. Ramón Juarez wasn't it. Oh, boy. All the kind of factor for Ramón Juarez. Sixty third minute. Again. El rayito. Brian Rodriguez. Texas on rebound. Six. Shot. There's no deflection. And there it is. He said he has violente. America leading again. Yeah. Voliente. Violante. Excuse me with another goal. Very fortunate. But there are leading. And 87 minutes. This is the new signing for Club America. Three to one. Oscar Perea would score. America wins. A lot of America fans. That was not good for Cristo Fervel. Good, Cristo. How was the atmosphere? Dip. Don't get up here. You know what? I've heard about never seen this by light. And I don't know something that was possible. That's my answer. Yeah. Chris shots fired. 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