Expected Own Goals: Chicago's Vlatko Reset, NWSL FOIA Opacity & Kansas City's xP Paradox

I know nothing about the Zodiac. I am not a Celestial gay, I cannot. Hello and welcome to Expected Own Goals Hot Macedonian Beef Edition. I am your host, Eric Morgan. And I'm Evan Davis coming up for you today is an extended interview with one Leslie writer, friend of the show, and Chicago stars reporter to break down what is one of the biggest things that's ever happened to the club, namely, Haring Blackwindenowski as Chief Soccer Officer. So we're not going to waste any more of your time, we're going to get straight into it. Here's our talk with Leslie. Well, suddenly, Midland is the most popular part of the United States when it comes to women's soccer. The biggest news arguably of the entire year came down like a hammer blow last Thursday when Vlaco and Inoski was announced as the Chief Soccer Officer of Czechs notes. The Chicago stars. So there's obviously only one person that we have to talk to to try and unpack this. It's the one and only gal pal herself from gal pal sports. It's Leslie writer. Hi, Leslie. What a beautiful day. What a beautiful future awaits glad tidings before we get to that. We are going to have to talk about the last to Washington. Definitely. Don't kill my vibe. Don't kill my vibe. Very briefly, we're at the top of the show. So it's playoff time. The crunch is upon us. The race for eighth is heating up. The race for the shield is lukewarm. So we're just going to talk quickly about like what happened over the weekend. The Seattle Rain lost Angel City one and their playoff odds completely flipped. Now Angel City seems to be in pole position for the playoffs, shock of shocks. Leslie, do you have any sympathy for us here in LA? None. Not a drop. Yeah. Fair. You know, the thing about when you just keep winning games is you climb up the table pretty rapidly. And their odds have gone from what we're talking like less than a month ago. They were looking at what like 10% playoff odds something all around there. Something like that. Yeah. Now it's around like 75. If you split the difference between the models, it's crazy. That's wild. Do they feel to you like a playoff team that could go out and win a game and make a run at this point? I think so. I mean, anything can happen. Leslie. I, you know, I think we have so many teams that are that are in that race for for the last playoff spot. It's, I mean, there's a reason why they call this the chaotic back stretch of the season because it, it, it's like you've got a bunch of dice in your hands and you're just, just throwing something out to see what sticks and, you know, that's, that's how people sneak in. That's how people end up getting into a good spot on the table. So I, I would say it's, it's entirely too soon to say, even though there's five games left of, of just like, I don't know, there, I were going to finish in the fifth place or 14th on the table, like that's, that's the, the silliness, I think, of the latter part of the season. Thankfully Louisville and Houston exists, so 14th is probably off the table, but I guess you never know. 13th, 13th still there. So literally four points separate Angel City from Denver from six to 10th when you're not watching Chicago of those five teams, Angel City, North Carolina, Kansas City, Seattle, Denver, any teams that you feel have better shots about locking up their spot come November, teams that you find entertain more entertaining than others that end up going on the second screen when Chicago's on the first. I am really interested to see what North Carolina does because I feel like there was, there was this really hot stretch that they were on that the Chicago stars helped with of just really great results and looking kind of bulletproof and then, and then they've dropped a couple. So it's like, it's like, I need you to want it, guys, I need to see, I need to see those results. I would say I'm, I'm surprised to see that Denver has, has been able to hang in there for so much of the season, like just as a newer team, as an expansion team, you know, she's got a Janine Sonis who can score lots of goals, good on you, that's my, that's my bad for not recognizing that. Yeah, what an absolute miracle she's been, don't know how much longer it's going to last, but first of all, like I do think that the three teams that are currently in playoff spots, Angel City, North Carolina, and Kansas City probably are the likeliest playoff teams at this point, which is a little wild to say, but I like, if a team is going to fall out of this unrelated to their actual skill on hand, there's just something really funny as we move into talking about lack of about the possibility of the record shattering Kansas City current missing the playoffs this year. And it's been this sort of marginal case that we've not even really explored that deeply. And as they continue to just sort of like grab draws where they should grab wins and take losses from draws, they're at this precarious place where they either have the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever and knock Gotham out after and reverse the one eight from last year and knock Gotham out and round one on the road in New Jersey or they will miss the playoffs and the sort of the narrative will become so weighty that it'll be almost impossible to discuss anything about the Kansas City current other than the abject tragedy of 2026 regardless of what they actually did on the field. It will be like the culmination of like the longs ruined this team in 12 months. So you're saying that there are only two options available, eighth or missing the playoffs at this point? No, no, no, I'm saying obviously they can make six or fifth or whatever, but what I mean is that they're sort of there's either the they were disappointing story that will be in the narrative that I don't think we necessarily agree with or they'll be the now with Vlokko leaving. I feel like the narrative that the longs of thoroughly ruined this team. Those will be like what the I mean, do you guys see a third storyline in here? Like looking looking at their final five games of the season like they they I think I think they have a pretty difficult path to to getting the points that they need out of out of these last few games like you've got Utah, you've got Washington, you've got BFC who sometimes decide they're going to win sometimes does not and yeah, a last a last match against racing Louisville who might be in like I don't care who you are my my work is done after today, so we'll fuck all you guys. Yeah, I think I think if even if they do make it to eighth place like I think there will be a lot of scrutiny like this is the this is the team that is like being held up as the standard as what is the best possible environment and in the past calendar year, you've had, you know, already like I'd not even future phenom like current your current phenomenal midfielder has left your your sporting director who brought you to to read through to ridiculously successful seasons is gone. So how are you going to recruit now if you're the Kansas City current? What are you what are you offering as a term as a term of like what is what is the future and the desire of this team because now I think all of a sudden now it's a little murky where it's like yeah, the stadiums great, the atmosphere is great, but if it's not successful then what do you do? Yeah, Evan, please present the all counterargument to this ridiculous. I mean, what's the point anymore? Like, you know, they're a they're a very good team that have gotten very unlucky. That's a 100% fact that are run by two really metalsome and obnoxious owners. Who seem to be just sticking their nose in it at every possible opportunity and never for the better, you know, like both of those things are true at the same time. Yeah, you know, like we're projecting probably a 46 point playoff line right now, which is wild. That's so high. It's well, I mean, if you look at the points per game. Four more games, but yeah, it's not that high. It's it's higher than it's been in the past, but it's like not that much higher. So like, you know, Kansas City is on 38. That means they got to get eight points out of a possible 15 if that 46 point line holds. I think there are probably eight points there to get not saying that they will get them. Whereas like Denver, I don't really see how that happened. And Angel City has got the toughest schedule of all of them. Yeah, you know, not not to say that it's like so tough. I mean, Angel City has given themselves plenty of cushion. I take that back. I mean, it's literally there are two points from the drop. What am I talking about? But yeah, I mean, I think I mean, eight points from a possible 15 from those five games, I don't think it's very hard when you know the talent that they have on hand. And like we talked about in the past, like they are, they are the home road split is get soy past the point of any possible explanation. Like it's it's true. It is literally all these all these players have won on the road before. They have won on the road in Kansas City before. Like there's no reason for them to suddenly be so bad on the road for anything, but just like coming up, you know, box cars every single time you roll the dice. Like especially when you pair it with the fact that they're like the best home team in league history. This year, you know, I mean, it's it's it's truly the weirdest distribution of results, but also I kind of like it really is. But I also feel like I think Evan's a little bit right here, which is to say that like the overwhelming narrative that you can tell, the sort of like sloppy, but maybe there's some there's some like underlying, I hate to say current, but current to that narrative of just like this thing is this thing is off the rails to continue the box car of it all, but like this team is both quite good underlying like and also at risk of missing the playoffs now. And the vibes are not great. And I sort of feel like this will be a team that kind of like the end of the person's Washington spirit where you're like, this team is really, really unfortunate as opposed to being like terribly organized. And that team sort of like that was an outlier year and also sort of the beginning of a transition for the franchise. And I think the difference here is that the longs ownership seems to be negatively affecting the club as opposed to say Michelle Kang's ownership being positively affecting sort of the trajectory of the club. Like it seems like they've done all the infrastructural stuff correctly. They've built a good team like Kroy Bethune is like a legit MVP candidate who's having who probably won't get votes because she's on a team that will be perceived to be underperforming. But she's been excellent all the way through. And this is like if they miss the playoffs or if they miss the playoffs, like I'm not going to be looking forward to like the takes the take of spheres takes on all of this because it will be sloppy. But also maybe there's a point to some of it. Maybe there, there's like maybe a good expose to be written about about this. I mean, but the thing is, and I'm sorry we're like going on and on about this. But like, you know, the vibes were rancid in Washington in 2021. They want a title like those things aren't always interlinked, you know, bad vibes equals bad performances. Often they are not always. So I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's a sufficient explanation if Casey makes a playoffs. Also right now they're projected to finish fifth. So let's, let's, let's see how the next five games shakes out. Meanwhile on the other side of the table, Gotham put three more points between them and second place Washington to continue their run to the shield. While San Diego beat Kansas City, speaking of which, to try and nip at their heels, Gotham just keeps getting results. And at times, maybe results that they don't always deserve. But is it just too late for any, but Leslie, is it just too late for anybody to catch them for first place? I think it's tough with the, with like, there's like that five, five, six point gap. Like it, it's almost like at the end of a basketball game, one like, you're trying to like, foul to get the ball back. Like at some point, it just becomes insurmountable. Like, I don't, anything, anything as possible, of course. Yeah, I think, I think they're in a really good spot. But it's like, I know they have a date with the Washington spirit soon. That will be a fun, like, you know, the six point swing type of, type of games. And I, I wouldn't say it's an event, especially with just how things go in this league. But they're in a really good position. And one, that's a lot, a lot better than where they were last year, you know? Evan, I assume you think Gotham have got this like pretty tied up at this point just because Leslie's point is the correct one. Five points is a lot to make up when you don't have much time on the clock. Yeah. I mean, they're just going to have to drop results against teams that they shouldn't be dropping results against. And like, there's no schedule advantage that Washington has relative to the quality of opponent for the next five games. So like Gotham's going to have to drop some points and Washington's going to have to beat them at home in October. Yeah. And that's really the only way to do it. And even that might not be enough. Yeah. I think the only real threat here is that San Diego is like low key the best team in the league. And San Diego could absolutely just rip off what five straight wins to get out of here. So I don't, I don't have any issue. It would be ridiculous, just given making up a six point gap with what five fixtures left to play. But Washington and Gotham, if they draw, which seems like a plausible result coming up. And then if San Diego were to just run the table, I mean, that San Diego team is really sort of like rounded into excellent form. And they have beyond the goalkeeper position, not a lot of like weaknesses. So if I was looking for a dark horse to like pit Gotham, I still think Gotham is like your shield winner. But San Diego is your, if not possibly biggest threat in this situation. They are the team I would least like to play in the playoffs at this point. So I, if there was a team that was going to grab them, I think it's, I think San Diego ripping off and ending on 60 points, ripping off five straight wins would not be the craziest thing in the world. Leslie, let's say for the sake of argument, a hypothetical that you cover a team that's challenging for the shield. I know. It's a foreign concept at least for the last few years between winning the shield, finishing in the top two or finishing in the top four at the end of the year. What would you feel is like the most important thing to do heading into the postseason? I feel like when you're trying to do well in the playoffs, like I think the best thing you can do is just be informed, be already clicking. Like, I mean, I think that's when we think about how like Gotham has been able to succeed in their championship winning season. It's like they, they get in by the skin in their teeth and they hold on for dear life and keep that going through playoffs. So it's, it's really, you know, I think everyone, you know, everyone wants to win the shield. They want to have the home playoffs spot, but it's not a sure thing that winning the shield and being in the top four is going to end with a trophy left or multiple trophy lifts. But yeah, I mean, if I had to pick one, I'd be like, we're on a two, three game winning streak and momentum is with us. The way Gotham's last five games last year, we did home to Portland, draw at home to Seattle, loss on the road to Kansas City, draw at home to Louisville. And then on the final day, a very dramatic, I'm sure very gutting three, two loss on the road to North Carolina. So they weren't exactly like flying heart. Exactly. You know, I mean, yeah, Gotham just have this. Gotham have put together two, it's like a classic. They put together two deeply improbable championship runs. And while you could say like the Krieger goal line save was the catalyst towards winning a title. If you wanted to, no such narrative can be crafted in the same way about their 2025 title win. And yet they're just like well run. So they have good players. I kind of think that that's my extremely lazy answer for this, which is last year, Gotham was like actually the third best team in the league and finished eight. A thing that by the way, Kansas City is the third best team in the league on expected points right now. And in eighth place. So if you're looking for like framing narratives, like there is, I think you just actually want to be a really good team. And really good teams have been winning titles for the past couple of years. So I feel like that's the like as as dumb as much as like I still think about what Abigail Seagull said on the show. Well, they just win games as much as like just winning games, which is being a really good team is important going into the playoffs right now. And like it's like San Diego and Gotham as like the really, really good teams. Washington's in a weird place right now, sort of bouncing around. And yeah, I don't know. North Carolina really good team dropped points at the weekend to potential final competitors. Gotham. So we'll see. Let's go on and let's talk Chicago. Yeah, you got to experience the rain in person, but Eric and I got to experience a 90 minute Monet painting on ESPN as Washington. As I say, on our show notes, did the business in Evanston, a pretty clean and convincing three nail victory, stayed my execution for having to eat an entire deep dish pizza. If Chicago stars scored a scored at least six goals in the stretch run, anything about game 25 that felt different to you from games one through 24. Not really. I mean, I think I think the stars are just in this spot right now till the end of the year. Like I don't think anything is going to change until we get to the offseason. They are just kind of thrown together lineups of who's healthy, who's available. And it's not looking great on the field because it's this is like a group of players that was not thoughtfully assembled. And it it shows in the results. It shows it shows in when you're watching the game. It's just kind of like why why it's Sam stop looking like a very amateurish player when she's she's capable of so much. I mean, I think there's just so much on her plate right now. She's she's just like that one waitress on the patio at brunch who has an entire arm load of plates and people keep grabbing her and saying, Hey, I think we're memosets like that. That is what this season has done to these players. Yeah, that's a really good description of Sam stop and like her two kids got brought to the restaurant today because she couldn't get a sitter. Yeah, yeah, like she is she is she is both like she is both like overrun constantly and also having to pay attention to all the children around her that she is responsible for caretaking and leading. It's really like I one of the goals. I think it was the it was maybe Rodman's opener where like it wasn't clear on television that a goal had been scored because of the impressionistic camera work. Like it was there's like a great shot that somebody framed and I reposted of just like Trinity Robman as a yellow orb. Yeah, yeah, like into like so it was really hard for I think us at home to make anything of this game, but it does feel like whatever the pros the real pros that will be around next year. There aren't a ton of them. I mean, let's talk about this as we sort of move in. I don't think there's a ton more to say about this game. It happens. How much of like we'll go and do this sort of how we got to this place, but I wanted to offer this. How much of this roster is going to be here in 2027? I would hope that there is a lot of change and a lot of turnover. I think there are some expiring contracts that won't be going forward. I think there are just players who were brought over here who I'm just not quite sure what what their job is is going to be. I think like this latest transfer window that they've had where they brought in likes players from Spain from Portugal. It just kind of felt like a continuance of of the Richard Coids philosophy of giving me a European defender at the later end of their career and bring them into the a fast and transitional league. I think I've suffered there and I my hope would be that they that they clean house and try to assemble a roster with with intention with plans with an idea of what it's supposed to look like because I think right now with the players they have it's kind of just vibes right now and the vibes aren't good. To give people context about just how a paradigm shifting this Chicago stars campaign has been apparently recently on Ali Riley and Kaleo Harris podcast. They were noting that offense is up this year dramatically and their theory was that defenses haven't been able to adjust to the way that teams press now. Turns out that if you just take out the XG that teams rack up against Chicago it looks like a pretty normal season. You know that's that's what we are we are the get right game we are you've got a struggling striker or someone returning from injury who needs who needs a win like that's going to happen again Chicago. I think like early on in the season with the angel city like remember how excited everyone was about angel city after that first game. Yeah the stars are just and it becomes such a punchline and it really sucks for one if you're playing on that team if you're trying to support that team but it's just I'm not surprised I am not surprised by that piece of data. And yeah and that's been what the Jamie squad that made it to March madness. Yeah it's it's and it's what makes comments like one of the color commentators during the game against Washington over the weekend so absurd when they say this is the type of response you need to see from the spirit after the loss from the previous wing and it's like no they just played Chicago you know. Yeah really it's like you have to get the result against Chicago. Right yeah yeah so about the roster there are depending on what happens with a couple of mutual options somewhere between 11 and 13 players that are under team control through the end of 2028. Yeah that's that could potentially be half of a roster that you've got two years of team control to manage like that feels like a lot of feels like a lot of players to try and unload in one or two windows. I mean yeah am I being unfair there but like I just know I'm real tear down the stud seems tough. I'm not sure they'll be able to to do a full tear down but I I would hope with the you know the people who can or want to move that you know that's right the friend office will be hoping that they can they can fetch a handsome price of you know at least get a good transfer fee out but I I don't I don't know how easy it is to sell a player on a team that is so underperforming if you know what I mean like it's like it's hard I imagine it's hard to sell Chicago as a location just on a terrible performance like fortunately I think block windowski can help with that but yeah I am I'm curious to know how how those conversations go when when players perhaps want to leave or when the front office is kind of working with players on that. Another thing that came up on the broadcast of the weekend Jordan angely was like Chicago's a great place to live and Jackie Oatley just went yeah there's pizza jazz this it was this sort of like I actually think the thing that just happened and and before we get all the way to Vlacco I actually think one of the best things about the Vlacco hiring is if you needed a reason to convince someone that there's a steady hand at the till to recruit it's it's like it's this guy it's it's the person who can say like you can almost throw out what you've seen in Chicago because this has gotten please join this new and different project. Before we get there yeah I think they do get tell us the story of how we got to the point of the narrative being so broken and then ended up with the hiring of Vlacco and Anaski because Karen Lizo and Laura Ricketts have left a lot of bodies in their wake between yeah former GM Richard foights yeah former head coach Martin Huberin and then a lot of other off field battles that really paint a clear picture that the Anaski higher kind of is the outlier in you know so yeah go back to November 2023 when Lizo comes on board and take us to now like how do we get here yeah I mean like it's it it's interesting talking about like you know wanting wanting to be recruited into Chicago because that's been a thing in years past of like when players come in and you know we ask hey why Chicago like I really believe in the project so it's like players that have been sold on a project for for years now and I think now they're finally in a position to act on it when they act on it and meet it when they say that we are working on something really cool but to go into the way that museum machine you know at the end of the 2023 season that was another season that was full of just kind of meandering throughout the season because they started 2023 on you know the on the heels of the gates report and the joint investigation and Arnhem Weftler promising to sell the team and then there was a GM who was working with Murray Davis's old club without telling anybody and then she resigned or respired and it was just bad vibes you had no GM who could be recruiting anyone you had no I mean you didn't really Chris Petchichelli was fine I guess but he he wasn't exactly you know leading leading team on a successful winning campaign it was the season that found also in free agency I believe the first was that the first window we have free is the second second second yeah but yeah so so people had already left there had already been an exodus and then there was another one during the season the vibes were bad everyone was just kind of hoping that they could get something together but there was no you know there was no one who's really calling the shops who was gonna try to make it better and the sale took forever to go through September 1st I finally got the news that it was happening if it's real Lord Ricketts led investment group it's gonna show us the way and you have players feel like yeah this is amazing it feels like a wage being lifted off of us and so we that it's the the first season in club history that they don't make a playoffs which is you know big deal you deal and then it becomes the offseason not well how do you rebuild they started with bringing in some some folks from you a soccer like here late so like I think KKK K Bradley might have come in in that offseason but there was hope I think there it there there was hope of like yeah these are new honors can't be anywhere so the old owners and they'll want to do what it takes to win and the first it's signing I think in that front office was I want to say it was Lauren Dalton at head coach Richard Voids had been brought into like consult but he wasn't officially hired until January February I think so you know they have a draft they they make the transfers to to get Sam Stobb in to start building up on that defense tally quica coming in and you kind of get the descendents of like okay we're trying something we're we're trying to improve on our on all the goals we surrendered and our last place finish only way to go is up and yeah I think that first season defense was you know this is not a finished product this is I think we had a couple of conversations that year of the stars can't possibly be this good the the stats the the paper work it all says that you know they shouldn't be winning these games when they scoring two goals on the only two chances they get but I mean they win enough for early on in the season that they are able to survive in eighth place long enough to get a playoff spot they get their claw cleaned in Orlando and we all hope hey you know we got somewhere we we went from we went from the bottom of the table when we got to the playoffs that's pretty that's that that's a good accomplishment I would say a good box to check when you're trying to rebuild an organization and then the the offseason happened and you know how I feel about that offseason yeah we have it on record actually yeah we I think we had we had many many a time spent on that offseason and that's when I think the red flag started to go up of like hey guys what's going on here and like the picket like we also had you know balswats and was coming in as like oh she's not available no one would tell us why like just she's not here we don't know when she's coming back and so I think that that 2025 season just started in such like a weird place and and the the vibes were just a little off don't have you don't have really anything to improve the team to keep it going for the next season and so they have the start of the 2025 season they they lose a lot of games they fire-learn Dalton as as kind of a fall guy for all of their struggles when he had previously said like hey I don't have the things I need to be successful and it just kind of seemed like a you know it's either either Richard or Lauren and they and they went with keeping Richard at the team he he had a philosophy he had a thought he had a theory that perhaps you could build a team using the least amount of money possible and I don't know from office just kind of went with it they're like hey here's this guy who he came from Europe he knows what he's talking about he came from Europe but not necessarily in one of the elite leagues of Europe not really much I mean I think it's it's probably going to go down is like one of the deepest regrets and Chicago history is deciding to not only find this guy but stick with him for for two years and we have the end of the season and he was still in charge the last place terrible campaign of revolving door of coaches yeah Lauren you got Mack you got Lassar you got Anders Jacobson you got Martin Hilgren who just couldn't couldn't get anything going with this team I think I think it's a lot to say that this front office stuck by Richard Coitz who didn't have probably shouldn't have had as much of a like to stand on as he did and and now they're now they're eating that you know they they brought in a coach from Norway who okay he's a good fit sure thing let's let's get Martin Hilgren oh wait he's that guy in Norway that had that historic eight nothing loss against England right back guy yeah what's I think that this disintegration into madness is a fair description of what happened over the past couple of years because it is when you describe it when you describe sort of like the trajectory that got us to this hiring the surprises that they yeah the surprises that they figured something out that was even halfway coherent as opposed as opposed to because because what they were doing I think I think in particular obviously like lancing foights was the boil that needed to go first because foights made sort of I mean this is the soccer Donna GM he will go down as as the person who cited a bullshit social media accounts pricing guesses as as you've replaced him with somebody who actually knows ball and I think the surprises the capacity for them to even do that considering the train wreck that has been the basketball of years and before we give them too much credit I do want to try and drill down on like what Laura Ricketts and Karen Lietso are as decision-makers what kinds of processes they put in place to arrive at the conclusions that they do with this club because yeah it seems pretty clear that they both fired Lauren Donaldson too early and they fired Richard foights too late so personally there is a part of me that just wonders like how much can end an off ski do if these are the two above him who set the budget they dictate a lot of those sort of like the broader strategic vision of the club that may not have to do much with the sporting side but still you know so many of the things that Karen Lietso said in the press conference introducing end an off ski really made it sound as though like she had been personally victimized almost by the chaos happening behind the scenes but all I could think of was her face on you know the Tim Robinson hotdog man like we're looking for the guy who did this like she hired foights she leads that she and Ricketts work together to hire Huberyn so like yeah and an off ski is a great hire but also based on what we understand about the timeline he kind of fell into your lap so you know Ricketts has been able to sell people on the vision before and and an off ski said he wanted to give her a big hug after they met because she sold him on the vision but we're three years into Ricketts stewardship of the club and the one good thing that you can say about what she has done is hiring end an off skis so I just how do we square that circle that other than like maybe they got lucky with getting him yeah I think it's really it's like I really want to be a fly on the wall for what those conversations were like in the fall of 2023 is like I wish I could go back in time and see the interview the beating the conversation that points had with them I think they both kind of went into this recruitment this firing not knowing I think I think they approached it without really doing their homework on what they needed out of a successful GM and I think I think they saw a European went a European man wearing a poppy vest who sends things that make money-minded people pretty happy but as far as delivering like they just I think they I don't think they did the due diligence that they had to to make the best hiring that they could in 2023 I get the sense that Richard Boyce was at the root of a lot of those problems I ended up because I did have a conversation with Karen Lito on the record that was supposed to be a piece about you know what's going on in Chicago why aren't they serious and then they made an incredibly serious hiring that killed piece but I got the sense from like conversation with Karen that you know perhaps perhaps Richard wasn't the most forthcoming about what he needed in you know in her her praising of Kate Cohen who has who has come to the club in this kind of intern time as a technical director like she she really likes the way that she's been communicating and has been very forthcoming about the decisions that have to be made so that kind of called into question to me the I'm not sure how communication worked between Richard Boyce and the front office I mean I think when I I had talked Karen the year before for that same case where he talked about Sandra Donna where she had said like you know hey I'm not you know it's not I I can't you know I'm going to let him handle the sporting side of things and I think that's a difficult lesson learned of you need someone with with that soccer knowledge to be able to keep an eye out things and and seriously evaluate things of just how is this going this is what has been promised is that being met do you have all those things that you need so when you talked Karen and when you read the news that Jeff Kassout broke in ESPN and those quotes and then when you heard what she said in the press conference do you come away from all of those conversations feeling like this is actually an authentic expression of someone who is like owning their mistakes and trying to fix them versus where like I as an outsider who isn't on the inside of the Chicago media sphere saw those quotes and thought well you're acting like this is something that happened to you not something that you had an active hand in like so do you do you buy do you buy what leads so selling in whatever measure of contritions she's offering here yeah I mean I think the this statement that the team made when they were moving on from Martin Anders I thought it was really interesting just because it was kind of the first sense of Mayacoba from from the organization to be like hey we recognize that this is back like it's you know perhaps my bar is too low of what to expect from the organization but even like that to finally get that from the club felt like if you feel like okay you're seeing this you you understand that that things are bad you understand that you are not being taken seriously as a club you are you know people are calling you the least ambitious the general managers across the league are all saying your team is holding the lead back I think by now maybe they're maybe they're finally taking the note and I mean as we as we talk about at the top like if they if they can't get it to work with Waco and Inoski then no one no one's going to be able to fix that team and so I think I think they're serious about giving Waco whatever he needs to succeed I think he's the best possible hire that they could have gotten and I you know foolish foolish or not I do think they are finally getting serious about that stuff and I mean I get it from the outside or even from the inside of people being like I still need to see I need I need more and I would say that's entirely valid yeah because I mean there are other things off the field that don't seem to necessarily be moving in a different direction either whether it's just the seemingly ceaseless struggles with the local government of the city of Evan Stinnell Illinois with regarding their occupation of Martin Stadium at Northwestern and they'll be they'll be there for another year and then the what seems to be serious level of delay in getting this long promised training facility up and running somebody broke the news a couple weeks ago that the only construction permit that they have applied for regarding the training facility is literally one construction permit while at the same time they also got fined for letting the grass in the weeds grow too long which doesn't suggest that there's a lot of activity happening at the construction site so this that doesn't feel like they're going to be able to get this thing open in time for the 27 28 off season where they originally promise so how do you marry those issues too that are ongoing with this sharp pivot and seemingly acknowledgement of mistakes and steps made to rectify them on the sporting side because the stuff with Evan Stinnell with the training facility that's very much in Leetso's column you know that stuff that actually has decision-making. Yeah I think I think the the training sector is something that like they need to they need to have like some sort of progress on that by the end of the season like even if it's if it's a ground breaking here's a picture of us with shovel we are breaking the ground even though winter is coming but we need to we need to get this shot in like I I think they need they need more clarity on what's happening out that site as for as for the stadium so here's what I know it's and I feel like it has it's been reported but the stars are trying are still trying to make a play for Ryan Field it won't be you know they'll be a martin stadium next year but I don't think they were anticipating had thought of the relationship or the not no relationship because it's a town-gown type of deal in in a college town uh between Northwestern and Edison I don't think they went in with the knowledge that they needed I don't think they were prepared for the pushback from the most vocal groups which possibly like guys do your homework which seems to be a struggle for them with a lot of the thing in the last couple of seasons and so once once Ryan Field opens proper for Northwestern football the the hope is that they can try again they say they've had a lot of success with the community in Evanston and can at least be like hey we are women's soccer we are we are a family friendly environment we do not have intoxicated college students who will be puking all over your lawns that that won't happen with us and so I think they're gonna you know they're probably gonna try to take that angle and be like no no we are we are fun we are family friendly we are nice please let us use your statement but essentially like while the drawings for the mockups for the new version of Ryan Field actually seem like the ideal grow into soccer venue as well it's it's scale down the program it's yeah it's a soccer school post but it's at the end yeah it is literally much closer to a European soccer stadium in its design and in what they're attempting to do then it is a college football stadium it seems like actually a really good fit other than say a handful of Saturdays in the fall when it will be when it's a turf field is it not right as well yeah it'll be turf but it like even still like the impact of having college football games and then coming out on a Sunday and playing on that field is not great or or a Friday night it seems like generally speaking short of owning your own soccer specific stadium this is this will become one of the better venues in the league for this what do you think the odds are that they end up actually playing Ryan Field I don't know I think I think it's I mean it's really I think it's the only hope for Chicago so it's like I'd better be sure that you can get this done because after that it's just like I don't what are you gonna do go back to seeking like I think I would hope that the that sort of like thing that needs to happen is is going to drive them to do this right I think they could I think there's a decent chance that can be done because they have no other yeah they don't seem to care to have a relationship with the Chicago fire in in their stadium whether or not that's good idea I think that's that's gonna gonna be something that haunts them if they can't get Ryan Field through but yeah I think it's I think it was a I think it was a missed opportunity for them yeah whatever like the fight is for like we need to have our own stadium like well you don't have acres and acres of riverside property that you can be developing on your own so it's like you're kind of making making your own work here yeah the fire situation always baffles me the fire opening a an urban soccer specific stadium with metro access and kind of all the things that you why don't you want that yeah like it's kind of like all of the things that you would want specifically and frankly I think that there is a path forward with NWSL teams and like good ground share partnerships generally speaking I mean like not all have been great but but being the soccer specific stadium and having like a crowd appropriate venue like has its advantages so let's transition and let's talk about sort of like how did we get to Vlokko getting hired because it happened very quickly yeah he was unemployed for not enough time to file for unemployment yeah how do we how do we get here from Vlokko in Kansas City to Vlokko Chicago soccer office chief soccer officer yeah I mean it was it was really interesting to to hear Karen kind of like take take the victory on like you know if we wanted to attract to Vlokko and Anoski we we hired a couple of people that he might know and he might hold hold in high regard so that that I found interesting in in that first press conference of like we we recruited this way it's like you you had no time at all to do that I I had asked her about like you know were you surprised that these Kansas City coaches were okay I'm able to be to be recruited and they're like yeah I wasn't going to look that look that gift horse in the mouth I was going to have fully recruit them and so it's interesting to to hear that kind of framing of like you know where we are making ourselves attractive to Vlokko and Anoski as as a general manager so I don't know if like maybe they had some foresight into what was happening in Kansas City but yeah I think I think it's interesting I perhaps they saw like okay we need we need a win we have you know we want we have seal ticket renewals that we're trying to get going what what what better way to get people interested in another day of Chicago soccer than by signing the arguably the biggest signing in Chicago history by recruiting Vlokko and Anoski I can't say I know how we got here but I'm glad we did it you know he likes a project oh have I got something for you but like here here is a project here's the keys here's my wallet here's my checkbook make it your own I mean if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly it certainly seems like the the stars didn't know that he was going to hit the market that they were just trying to at least that's the picture that Leetso is painting that she snapped up Kate Cohen and Garga Cacerta because they were suddenly and surprisingly available and why not and if you read if you read the the press statement from the Kansas City current regarding and Anoski's termination did not seem like that was something that had been like planned out and thought through for multiple weeks it seems like they released on a holiday right the four sentences that don't mention any of your accomplishments at the club yeah and again like you know because who's reporting made it seem like he was already in Europe probably because as sporting director he oversees hb koga and all of the other potential recruitment and scouting opportunities the current can have and then the hammer drops and then he comes back and according to him he sat down with a bunch of different clubs to yeah I would believe it yeah so when he says that Laura Ricketts made such an appeal to him about the long term vision of the club that he wanted to stand up and give her a hug that it was an instant yes after hearing that conversation what do you imagine that pitch was to him like what do you think Ricketts said to him that made him so excited I mean I would have to guess you know there was the promise of hey you know you're we want to welcome you in and give you everything you need to make this club succeed like I think with this role he'll have the opportunity to kind of you know have that that like like 30,000 feet of like there's a lot of things that need to be done to this club to bring them back to their former glory and we we want you to be able to do whatever you want with it I think it was interesting hearing him say that like this this team aligns with his values like I don't think you'll ever find someone with a bad thing to say about Black women off-skills a human so it's like if there if there is like some human to human connection that they had in that conversation that you know maybe it hadn't been present in in Kansas City over the last year or so I think I think Laura Ricketts is very good at getting people to find on on the dotted line of like hey come over here I got some for you and I think yeah I am dying to know what that conversation was like but I imagine it must have been just here is this club build it however you want you will have everything you need to accomplish your goals and I will see to that person like that that must have been the conversation to get him to solve I think that we all have to speculate about the cap but it seems like the Chicago stars have not necessarily always been spending to the cap of late at least not well either they're not spending to the cap or things are worse than that or they're spending half a million dollars on on someone who is going to be sent back to Europe I get funny thing is we could actually list several players in that space as opposed to you just been playing one like that that actually is true for like two named popped into my head and I was like hmm wonder which ones lessons talking about but it's more like five or ten I suppose I suppose the question is first off Vlacco like what is what are the timeline and expectations for him to sort of turn this around how much rope do you think he really has to do this and I mean I'm inclined to say he has as much as he needs but with the short offseason I would imagine hires need to be made soon yeah this club will probably take multiple seasons to return to some semblance of what the team was pre the Ricketts arrow which is a team that was like perennially in the playoffs it seems like that's a long way off it seems like a long way off but I mean on on Vlacco's call he was like I I want to turn things around quickly like he has high hopes for getting the team at the very least back in the playoffs next season and you know that that excites me to hear as you know someone who has been covering a couple of miserable seasons for the stars it's it's it's something I want to hear I would sincerely hope that it is that it's doable I I saw Karen before the game on Sunday and she was like it's it's only just begun so I'm really interested to see who they can pull in what they're capable of doing in this this offseason but they do have to act fast like they are not the only club who's on the market right now for head coach and they're going to need to figure out who's in charge so that they can build this roster so it really I think it really really really crucial head coach and general manager they are trying to hire two roles so I it's already late I think but they have to get going with what they can get you mentioned general manager so I saw in one report that he was hiring a technical director are they considering that the same role yeah yeah I think I think that that's the same that's kind of what they're looking for so you know the title inflation can often just be that when it comes to chief soccer officer or vice president of soccer operations general manager but chief soccer officer can also imply that you are at the top of a very very large operation that includes not just player recruitment and transfers but also technical development future youth and academy development to Chicago ever gets the shit together in that regard you know implementing you know on field style and vision and identity and trying to shape all the hires to kind of fit that fit that vision have you gotten the sense of like what and Anoski's broad remit is going to be as a chief soccer officer beyond the most public facing version of that job which is player recruitment yeah I think I think it's tough to say what what that's going to look like I mean the stars have never had have never had this as as part of their hierarchy and so I think it's I think it's just something we're gonna have to look out for in in the way that they recruit is it but I like it sounds like he he's he's ready to do all those things from from that press conference we talked about how much he loved developing players and working with with the you know with the young guns and I I would hope that it's not like a surprise to him that he's doing all that it's it's something that he's studies embracing and yeah I I think we just don't know yet and we might not know until we see those hires happen with regard to the head coach higher there is rumor that his former assistant Mulani Vonnevitch is the front runner for that gig which on the record and Anoski has neither confirmed nor denied had you gotten the impression that that's still the case and if it is the case what do you know about a Vonnevitch that would make him an ideal fit for like the next phase of this project I mean I I would say what I know is just the you know the scuttle but that's been in the wind a bit of like I think when he was moved to sporting director of Kansas City I think everyone expected me long would would take the head coaching job and I you know obviously nothing happened but I would say the pros of having that low would be you have two people who have worked together for a long time particularly in this lean I think that's a good good combination for trying to build up something new if you can if there's if there's one thing the stars have lacked in these last three years is people in decision making roles who have experience in the NWSL who know what this league is like they just they just haven't had that could be why it had been a last place for two years or five I can't I can only I can only expect your what kind of soccer do you think that Anoski wants the team to play but what identity do you think he wants to implement on the field and then maybe as a sub question of that what type of stylistic identity do you think the Chicago stars should adopt irrespective of Anoski's views I mean whatever it takes to not have a goal differential under negative 40 I should say like whatever that one is that's that's the identity so the we're not going to leak goals three four five at a time I mean he sees he's a defensive guy and he likes he likes a strong strong backline a strong defense I think I think that will likely probably should be a focus for the offseason in in the work that they want to do but yeah I mean it was it was interesting you know hearing him say what he what he had like taken from the Chicago or understood the Chicago identity to be as like this very gritty team but I think it's going to be difficult to know until we see players get signed but you know strong strong physical fast and also defensive fighting I think I think that's somewhere that they can get with what they have on hand and what they could bring it any any sense at all about sort of the player reaction to this hiring has there been yeah it's been really tough to say like the we haven't really gotten to speak to a lot of players in in the in this week to week time period so like unfortunately like we just haven't had the opportunity which which sucks but you know that's and that's working media covering the Chicago stars we really just haven't had a chance to speak to anyone who has been excited from we talked to Jenna bike on Sunday and you know she's excited about it she was someone who we asked asked about just hearing that news and the reaction you know it's been a difficult season it's been a difficult career for her in Chicago where it's just like the seasons that she's had so far have mostly been not fun in last place like she called it it seems like there's a light at the end of the tunnel now and that light is real it is not a mirage it's a you know the team that's been punched in the face a few times is is perhaps finally being handed a nice pack for their face and hopefully something a little bit more than that Leslie give me the year that the stars may get back to the playoffs hmm I'm feeling you know maybe next season they they get on a roll and perhaps end up being like a Utah of the past couple of seasons where it's like okay we see what's what's what's going on in the vision and they just ran out of runway to make the playoffs next year but I would say if not next year the year after that would be that would be my hope 2020 and marketing encounters and just to close out you wrote a piece for defector media about sort of another wave of harassment basically can you just sort of walk us through that story a little bit for people who may have missed that story yeah so basically we have Dana Moskowitz and I have been reporting on these like semi annual reports that the the league is compelled to send to the attorney's general of New York Illinois and Washington DC because of what happened five years ago where it was just nonsense at every turn for players and staffers in Washington DC the Chicago stars another clubs across the league but I think with all of the real estate that those two teams were taking up in all of the investigative reports I understand why we're getting we're getting the AG's involved uh these reports that they have to write to the attorney general to to be like hey we are following the rules that you set out for us here's all these staffers here's all these procedures and here are all the things in place that we're doing to make sure this never happens again and as part of that they have to include data from the any like investigations or complaints that are made because they are they are compelled to do investigations when they receive complaints from players from staff they are compelled to investigate so they they write these reports and they're heavily redacted by the time even the AG's office gets it so there is just this this thing that is happening where you are seeing there are investigations happening we don't know who is making the complaint if it's a player or a staff and like that part I can totally understand wanting to redact that information keep that private you know sensitive matters but as far as these investigations go we really just we don't know what the results are we don't know if people are punished and you know we tried we tried to appeal to get information we tried to figure out like where is the what is what is what is in these survey results what are they learning from them and so far all we know is that they the the league and the attorney general's meet and they have a presentation that doesn't have any sort of notes or any sort of paper trail that can be brought into be scrutinized so it's it's an interesting thing that I I never thought I would be working on but it I think there is an opportunity for transparency that is needed frankly but it's something that the league is just not not doing in a sense of like I feel like it would be a really easy win to be like hey here's our big report from the last year here we got this many complaints we sent these complaints to a third party investigator and you know these these complaints were were kicked back down to the team level these complaints were resolved and then this ended up however it ended up it's just it's just not a very transparent way of practicing so basically every six months we send a FOIA request to get these reports and we look through to see what we can find and unfortunately what we found this time was a lot of complaints about sexual misconduct and sexual harassment where they're previously were none and so the system is working in a sense where you can make a complaint and that complaint will allegedly be heard but yeah we just I mean I don't think the league has earned a benefit of the doubt on on resolving these things you know in last year's report you noted that in 24 24 in total the league received 43 of these types of complaints you also noted that you they had five in the first six months of 2025 do you know what the full year total was for complaints in 2025 no we do not because in in that document where we saw the the 43 complaints when we got it for the second time that information was no longer in the presentation so we don't know I I would imagine that it was more than five because you know it's a 16 team league now it's just you know stuff it like like there are human resources departments for a reason like you know things come up and so I I'm inclined to believe that there were more than five complaints at the beginning of the year and there are more than eight complaints in these last six months just best guess do you think that were significantly below that 43 threshold from 2024 or I would say maybe not just like with you know the league is expended like I think I would I would not be surprised if if there were more just with by sheer volume of employees but yeah I mean I think it's it is the the frustrating part of doing these pieces is just like you don't really have all the information that could be helpful to you and no one is is inclined to give it away you said that this year's eight complaints focused on what entirely on claims of sexual misconduct or harassment or retaliation the yeah it was seven seven of them were misconduct or harassment and then the eighth one was retaliation so we just there's just so much we don't know that we probably should know like this is a league where you have players under 18 like just for like sheer safety like if you have complaints of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct like I need to hear you say that the people who were allegedly part of that complaint have been disciplined have been dismissed like it's like I think I think there's a duty there's a duty to report more than they are reporting are there any mechanisms in place to force more transparency out of these out of these reports not really like the like they're not even like compelled like these reports are going to the attorneys general offices already redected so like I'm not yeah it's like not not to say I doubt the oversight of the attorneys general offices but I I would be inclined to think that there is there is more work that can be done to be more transparent about what's happening and either either the that information is still getting delivered to to the AG's of of like hey these things are happening but we can't put it in writing and so yeah it's just it just feels it just it doesn't feel settled and I know like feelings especially in this this type of reporting isn't isn't the same as as a fact but it is I don't know it's just it the vibes are off man I mean as you as you say the leak has earned no right to trust before they've handled these issues in the past and I know that you're going to ask Jessica Berman about this the next time you have a chance and I know she ain't going to answer the question listen my my my Brooklyn peasant Jessica Berman who just basically found out that we went to rival high schools in Brooklyn so you know maybe that's maybe that's what's in the way it's yeah the Bedford Avenue Midwood Madison rivalry will play on at the the highest level of soccer if only you'd gone to school in Queens yeah she's uh yeah she's a steward of capital not a steward of the transparency uh we will get to see how the next phase of the Chicago stars unfolds next year and we'll be doing it primarily through the eyes of one Leslie writer whose work you can read at Galpel sports and follow her on social media at Leslie writer and at Galpel sports Leslie can't wait to see in DC in a couple months yeah man I'm excited thanks for having me guys always a pleasure to speak about Chicago whether that is a ramps a rave I am just my fingers are so crossed right now it's gotta get better right it's gotta get better I with great hesitant C.A. say I don't think you can get worse so yes by default and I just hope your wife Emily has plenty of joint cream to help your hands yeah it's it's uh it's a lot it's a lot to work on but we're we're hopeful as always we love our chats with Leslie writer of Galpel sports and defector media Evan please take us out thank you so much for listening if you haven't done so already join our patreon right now and not for much longer it's only six dollars a month to get you four exclusive bonus episodes every single month plus access to our discord and lots of fun other goodies do all the things you're supposed to do with podcasts rate is five stars drop us a kind review in your pod catcher of choice tell all your friends about us and follow us on social media at X own goals that's the letter X own goals on all social platforms including youtube instagram and tiktok where we feature video content you will not find attached to the podcast itself so be sure to give us a follow there if you believe we've made an own goal please email us at x o g at x own goals dot com that's the letter x o g at the letter x own goals dot com we will be talking with you on patreon later this week and back with you on main feed covering all the NWSL action next week until then bye