De Zerbi's £300m Paradox: Inside Spurs' Goal Drought & Premier League Market Mechanics

Hello and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Emma Payton. Four games into the new season and Tottenham Hotspur still haven't scored, that is despite spending over £300 million this summer, so why are they still struggling? Well here with me in the studio today we have the Athletics David Ornstein and James Horncastle. Good morning guys, how are we doing? Very good, Emma. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. Did we have a good weekend and a good start the week? Yeah, it's been fun. There's plot lines really starting to develop now in football, pressure on managers, after that sort of early season optimism, so that's giving us plenty of food for thought and talking points. But yeah, otherwise good. The late summer sort of vibe remains in the UK, so a bit of, well, I don't know, it's nothing compared to the delights of Italy, James, but it's say that the good times continue to roll. You know, global warming is a good thing for Ireland. Great Britain is becoming like a beefer, so we are not, we are not going to get into global warming on the spot. We're not having news, but yeah, it's a good, a good September so far. Okay, you'll be off on holiday soon, so it's all right. All right, let's get into the football then, shall we? On Saturday, Everton became the latest team to stop Spurs scoring, meaning they've now played over 400 minutes of football since their last goal that actually came against Everton on the final day of last season. And as Jack Pitbrook wrote on the athletic over the weekend, Tottenham, a stuck in a vicious cycle. Have a read of that piece if you haven't already. I mean, David, you spent a lot of your summer bringing transfer news to Spurs fans. They were one of the busiest clubs, weren't they? And I mentioned a minute ago, I mean, they spent so much money as well. Have you been surprised by their start to season? How'd you see it? I was at that Everton game on the final day of last season, and the sense of relief around the Tottenham hospital stadium was very palpable. And you imagined that it was a never again type feeling permeating throughout the club. We can't let this be repeated. And that's why they embarked on this remarkable recruitment drive. And really, you know, we've just passed the one year anniversary of Daniel Levy departing in the club in in shock fashion. And that in the words of the sort of ownership and the hierarchy as they reclaimed the club was going to be the start of a new era. You could argue legitimately, where were they for 25 years? They were the owners of the club. But, you know, suddenly they were coming forward with ground, ground pronouncements about opening up the purse strings more wins more often. And the ambition, the relaxing of the wage structure, which was seeing the miss out on a lot of players at January was maybe low key. So kind of Gallagher come in. You saw actually Brennan Johnson go out. He was their top scorer, I think, and he wasn't replaced. That's maybe under talked about. And then there was all the mess in the dugout with the various changes, Thomas Frankie, go to door agents. Goodness me. Oh, for those days and and the deserving arrival. And there was no expense spared. One of the best paid coaches in the Premier League and therefore European football. And a recruitment drive, the like of which that club has has never seen before. I don't think we've seen that much turnover at pretty much any Premier League club in such a short space of time. All of these recruits unprecedented spending for that club. They actually traded out as well, maybe not as much as they needed to, but they did for the first time, you know, really embark upon some sales. Yet it feels like they're pretty much in the same position as as they were before. And you know, that it must bring this sort of sinking feeling to a lot of Spurs fans. No goals, no point. Oh, sorry, very few points. And and and there is some optimism among Spurs fans as well. What they saw in the early stages of the Everton game. But it is such a confusing picture about what's going on there. And I think they are they are waiting. I mean, what was the Italian word that deserve a use for sort of unblocking the split chassis, something like a Splocale. No, absolutely right. This this will that we need to sort of unlock the goalscoring. That implies it's a psychological issue. And of some of the lines he's already said in his press conference, he said, we've spent a lot of money, but you can't buy a mentality which you can't, but David alluded to how much Spurs are paying him. They are paying him to bring the mentality and to change the culture of the football club. And look, that will take time. I think a number of coaches who've been at Tottenham over the last few years say it's like working for a Fortune 500 company rather than a football club. And they have to repurpose everything to make it football first. But I think one of the things that's really struck me watching Tottenham start this season is they have one of the most creative coaches in football last 10 years play one of the most uncreated teams. And it's a team of his making because when he got the job to replace the legendary ego to door. He was in his mind, he was thinking, I'm going to wait until the summer before taking a new job. You know, I'm going to bring in some new staff, new ideas, timing's not ideal to take the Tottenham job. And Tottenham kept coming back, didn't they David? I remember that. I'm like, we're going to keep making you an offer until you accept and you accept it. And I always wonder with that, I say, okay, I will accept it with these conditions. If I keep you up, you must be grateful to me. And we will go out and completely change the culture of the club and change the makeup of the team. And so he was afforded a lot of power upon keeping that club up. And when I say it's a team of his making, the influence on the recruitment, the signings at his for the most part. And so it looks very strange to me when you analyze Tottenham's team, that how can this team have so little creativity in it? Well, I was saying some people are out injured, aren't they? Some players? They are. You've had, you know, Kuluszewski, who hasn't played football in a year. You've had Madison, which played... He's just on his way back now. Yeah, played half an hour last season in total. And I just played what, 45 minutes across three games this time. So you are missing those players. But I think there are still some players available where you think, why are you playing Bentanko and Tonali in Midfield? You know, some people have said to me that Tonali is like a deluxe Bentanko. Don't you need to compliment these guys in Midfield? Mahmush. Is Mahmush number nine? I mean, I did a couple of Egypt games at the World Cup. And in their biggest games against Iran, against Argentina, he didn't start as the number nine. Z-coated. And so it's very fashionable to say football has moved on since Roberta Deserbi was culture brightened. I don't think it's moved on in terms of style, but in terms of the profile of player, you need to be competitive in the Premier League. And we saw Liverpool maybe have this problem last year. It's more physical than it has been ever before. You have to be really good at set pieces. And I look at Spurs. I think they look quite lightweight. You know, I think when it comes to set pieces, they look vulnerable. It can see the two goals, I think against Brentford and Newcastle. Yad Valtemarder being marked by Destinier Dorje. That's a mismatch. So you're vulnerable from set pieces. And you show no threat from set pieces. And the only creativity I see in the side of the moment is from Savio, formerly known as Sabino. I might just count to your point about this is his recruitment, because players like Andy Robertson were pursued in January as a free agent. They didn't manage to do it then. They bought him in in the summer. Who else? So there is like a tonnale and a Van Hecker, absolutely his. But other Savio Savino was being pursued last summer. So that immediately shows it's a bit hodgepodge, a bit patchwork. Now you could say that's good. It's a bit of a club's input and a bit of his at Brighton, where you reference his successful, pretty successful stint in English football. That was really the club's recruitment. And it became a bone of contention with him. I remember reporting on his desire to sign Matt Vienko from Shakhtar Dionnetsk and the club didn't want it. It didn't work on their data model Tony Bloom's algorithms, which was younger or certain different characteristics. And it's almost like who is in charge of things here. So obviously Tottenham promoted Johan Langa to become sporting director. They had initially co-sporting director, sports director with Fabio Paratichi. Yeah. What a remarkable sort of time he had at the club. Paratichi came. He went. He came. He went again. Johan Langa has Rob McKenzie, who was with him at Aston Villa on the recruitment side and Frederick Leif, I think on the data side. Then there was talk about another sporting director coming in and it was going to be Sebastian Kale, but that deal fell apart. There's even been rumours about Pierre-O or Zili-O from Inter Milan that have been denied. But it shows that that sort of area is being considered. And then you've got sort of the Lewis family. What role do they play in this? We see Vivian Lewis sat at every game. I don't think she sort of hands on. We hear that Nick Bucher, who is her son-in-law. So Joe Lewis's grand son-in-law is a very influential figure there, despite not having been through the owners and directors test. And you can sort of raise questions about that. Spurs will say, well, he's not doing much. Everybody you speak to him, football, and around Tottenham say, he is doing a lot. So what is the clarity on that? I think it would be really good to hear from some of these people and maybe we will in due course. On sort of what is going on there? Because I'm trying to paint Emma a bit of a convoluted picture that is, you could say, in its embryonic phase and we are very early days in the season. We are talking ahead of them playing at Liverpool in the lead cup tonight and maybe things start to click and people are listening to this and things are already moving in the right direction. Maybe they get a good result against Aston Villa and start picking up maybe the unblockage comes and the goals start flowing through. But I think what James describes about the sort of quite muddled recruitment or team selection and what I explain about the quite muddled sort of executive structure, team construction, it all sort of raises questions about the overall direction. We mentioned Jack's matchpiece a moment ago. So to understand Spurs struggles in front of goal where he sent us this. I'm at the Tottenham Hotspur training ground where Roberto has just given his press conference ahead of Tuesday night's caribou cup game away at Liverpool. One of the big topics of today's press conference was why have Spurs not yet scored a Premier League goal so far this season? Four games in. Roberto Deserby was very happy to talk about it openly today. He said that they've been working really hard on it. He said that they've been doing some extra video works, some extra shooting drills. He's clearly focusing on trying to improve the confidence of players trying to help them make a better final pass. I think he wants them to be a bit more confident taking shots on. Something that they looked a little bit reluctant to do during the course of Saturday's Nill Nill draw at home with Everton. I actually think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Spurs signed 10 new players in the summer. They had six new signings starting against Everton. I think that it's going to take them a while to become a little bit more cohesive in the final third. I think we're still waiting to see the new signings like Savio and Omar Mahmouche in that front line settle in but the building blocks are in place and I'm pretty confident that when that first goal in the league comes I think that more will follow and I think Spurs will probably be okay. So Jack's sounding fairly positive there but the stats aren't to be honest with you. 51 shots so far this season that puts them 12th in the league. Only 12 on target. Only Aston Villa actually have had fewer so 19th and they've got the worst XG in the Premier League. Do you agree with what Jack is saying that? I know you talked about the lack of creativity a minute ago but you feel like it's a case of they need a bit of patience here and they are going to gel together. They've brought in so many new players this summer. I mean they are underperforming their XG but their XG is only three goals across the first four games. Yeah which is so surprising for a Roberta deserving team because this is someone who is considered in Italy as kind of very countercultural in how he approaches and wants to win games. You know it's about playing out from the back baiting the press. It's about dominating your opponent through possession. It's being about being able to cut through low blocks with quick incisive passing play and look we've maybe seen some flashes of it. Half an hour against the first half an hour against Everton but it's broadly been missing and that's surprising to me because Intermarisca has probably had a similar amount of churn at Citi and things aren't instantly clicking there but you know I mean they got a result with 10 men for an hour. They've won all the games and they won all their games and one of the best players at the weekend was NDI who was one of the players I think Spurs also wanted. So I think he's probably got fewer excuses than Maresca has because yeah deserving he came in last season he had games what six seven games in which to assess that squad get in the building understand how things work or don't work at Tottenham. He's had a full preseason and he hasn't had this drawn out a kind of processes to Maresca had to actually get get in at Citi. So sure he's inherited more problems not a winning culture in the way that there is at Citi but I think it's a concern and if you're the Lewis family or whoever's calling the shots at Tottenham and you've invested in the way that you've invested this summer and I know it's only four games and it's a small sample size but you look at that optosuper computer with its predictive models and they are predicting that Spurs will finish 15th with 45 points. That's not the uplift that you were expecting all the value you were anticipating deserving and this team would add so you know things should unblock. Yeah but what I mean what are the expectations for Spurs what were they going into the season more often maybe I mean you know of the back of two 17th place finishes yeah I mean if we wind it back we can only take the words of the hierarchy the ownership and you know they said they want more nights like Bill Baal more often I mean that's European success that's neutrals what what's that game again. Let's forget the the the substance and think about the style that they they're you know projecting and it's it's silverware. They look a long way off that at the moment I don't know in terms of league position but you would imagine that their target for this season would be to get back into Europe at the earliest possible opportunity not least because the spending has been so astronomical now the new financial rules SCR lend themselves to a club like Tottenham with higher revenues than some others being able to spend on transfers and salaries in a way that perhaps they weren't able to before they've also not spent so heavily in the past which has on those two factors which has allowed them to do so and remain within the limit and also the ownership for the first time has opened up the purse strings that they've invested in the club I think a couple of cash injections and so you would assume judging by the values and the the level of finance being committed on transfer fees and salaries that they should be judged on on European qualification that they'll need to because a lot of a lot of the ability to comply now is because of what I just said but but come next summer you know it's going to be catching up with them that they'll need to be probably selling a bit more they'll need to be raising the revenues and gaining the European football money so I would assume a return to European football is the expectation and their wish is to pick up more silverware I just wanted to pick up on something James said about same Manchester City's upheaval and the rescuer so so Spurs have now entered the pantheon of big spenders yeah so the values they're breaking the hundred million barrier and so on so so then it's going to come down to the quality of recruitment and the quality of players they've signed and and that will be the judge of of those doing that work and that's where at the moment the jury is possibly looking a bit out so they let Jed Spence go but they didn't replace him with the right back so you've got actually gray deputizing there I don't know when actually gray became a right back maybe he will flourish in that position in time but he was always known coming through to be one of the best midfield prospects around so was Lucas Bergval Lucas Bergval has been shunted out to the right back into the middle you know wanted to leave to play more regular game time and in the position that he felt he would excel at something changed over the summer he signs a new contract so there's a lot of dissatisfactory situations there and Emma was right when you pointed to injuries because you know now Kudus and James Madison are coming back which is a positive sign although in recent days deserve be talking about how Madison isn't ready yet to start matches so it's not fully satisfactory and Kulisewski is still not back out there there is shavvy Siemens as well shavvy Siemens a key creator in the discussion you are having and Wilson who's really promising winger he's out long term as well and that I'm sorry to keep going back into the depth of this situation but you know Tottenham's medical record in the recent seasons has been diabolical like really criminal at this level and they're not alone a lot of primarily clubs have have suffered badly with injuries and fitness issues but I'm not sure anybody to their extent and they've revamped the medical department Dan Lewington has come in as head of performance from Manchester City or the city football group they have revamped the gym and procedures and certain players who have been deemed risks have been kept out of action like Pedro Poro in a way that perhaps they weren't before so this does legitimately need some time to see if they can improve on the fitness front and like we're forming very early judgments here um but that's going to be the nature of the beast when you are putting so much financial backing into deserving so much power in his hands so much financial financial injections into the transfer market just to win this section on a quick positive back to back clean sheets though for spurs isn't it yes so no and Roberto after that game said look I would be considered the best coach in Italy for this but that's I wouldn't say that's not who he himself is about like um Roberto's consistently pushback about this this this idea that um he plays he gets teams to play a style of football that he likes and if he likes the way the team plays that's enough for him regardless of whether they win lose or draw you know there's this idea that if they lose but play well Roberto's a happy person he is absolutely not a happy person this is a guy's fiercely competitive he hates losing and I think you can see his priorities whilst he'll be pleased about those clean sheets and the fact that they're giving up relatively few chances I thought one of the more telling things about the Everton game was that interaction he had with Mattis tell where he was kind of doing the Pep Guardiola thing of coaching him on the pitch it's just like what your body shape should be when a chance like that presents itself to you and that shows what I think what really matters to him not letting chances like that pass you by um if we're going to create chances like that not just for finishes but also the creators if you've got a chance to play the final ball and you don't and he knows you can do it that's something like he's really going to drill down on and his post-match analysis in training and it's the same with finishing and I think Jack was talking about them doing more shooting trips yeah yeah yeah yeah this week I think someone asked Roberto does Erby are you doing more shooting drills he was like yes of course yeah and he is a he is a technician is Roberto he is someone who he really works on technique you know you saw that with some of the Brighton players their experience of it everyone remembers how he got them to bait the press by putting their foot on the ball and then sort of just rolling over and trying to bring it he does lots of things like that and you saw the thing with tell it's all about the body shape you know where your shoulders should be when a chance like that these are the things that read the detail that really matters to him um and this group of players have got to absorb it take it in and be able to execute what he wants from them just just quickly I think that's really interesting how we're talking about a coach who teaches and they learn off of him with with I'm not meaning to be harsh that's the case at all clubs that's why Pep Guardiola is coming on to the pitch and doing similar but at Brighton maybe you've got the space and the time and the slightly lower expectation where you can do that but and I keep going back to this level of expenditure they have spent an amount that is demanding of them from their fans from the public from the media instant progress or at least short-term progress and results and when we refer to those recruits we've talked about you know Manchester City have spent a lot of money but you can see that they've spent on quality to deliver now Arsenal have spent quite a lot of money again and they are in the delivery phase we're going to be asking similar questions of the Chelsea's of this world the Manchester United despite not getting everything they wanted they've spent quite a lot but that is really pertinent of Tottenham and deserving now because they've spent you know I don't know Van Hecker has come in at what 50 million pounds with the season left on his contract as Reconcers gone into Arsenal around the same price and he looks like a Rolls Royce and I'm not disrespecting Van Hecker but what I'm saying is you you've got to be judged at the values that you're spending so if there's a deal worth 100 million pounds for Tanali he's going to be judged in the same sort of bracket as Declan Rycent and Elliot Anderson Mattias Fernandez at 85 million or whatever it was he's going to be judged in the Bruno Gimmaris and who was the other field of Manchester I don't know I a bloody category and it goes on like that so when Deserbys is having to teach and learn which is natural he's doing it in a much different and more demanding environment given the expenditure than he would be at a Brighton or if they had been recruiting at a lower value transfer fees yeah okay time for David's part favorite part yes it is ask onstein we asked our subscribers over on the athletic descendant their questions for David so let's get into a few of them shall we and we're going to start with Manchester United because Anwesh has posted this saying how good is Manchester United's coaching staff actually and then he goes on to talk about even them up against the 10 men of Manchester City saying how they look tired towards the end but he said when you compare Carrick staff with someone like our tetters set up at Arsenal United's coaching team just doesn't look that elite on paper maybe that's an area the club need to look at as well well of course it's an area that every club needs to look at and there will be understandable scrutiny of Michael Carrick because he was an interim appointment at the beginning and then he earned a job on a permanent basis would he have earned a job if say a Thomas Tuhel had been available and hadn't extended his contract with England I think Man United might well have gone for him there were other options on the market and clearly the hierarchy at Old Trafford ran a process and if that process was robust enough they would have scrutinized candidates they did they spoke to some pretty high level coaches from what I remember at the time and they for whatever reason and there would have been multiple factors availability price you know continuity familiarity the maybe some input from the dressing room I don't know they decided to go with Michael Carrick it's easy for us to be wise after the event everybody was lauding Michael Carrick's impact and the influence of Steve Holland as a coach in reference to that specific question so it was good enough in the second half of last season when Man United particularly at home we're imperious I think they're the best home record in in Michael Carrick's time as interim head coach and now afterwards we're suddenly saying all the coaching is not good enough and we're on the outside so we don't know yeah I mean you look at Sir Alex Ferguson young Klopp, Pep Guardiola, Michaela Tetta some of the best coaches they do have changes to their coaching setup they tweak them you see it's been yeah you've definitely seen that him just recently more on the medical side but there was the addition of Gabrielle Hanser I think roughly this time last year Klopp had Pep Linders who was then used by Pep Guardiola here the most changes Pep Guardiola and maybe not as big names but there were Cummings and goings Juan Melillo was there for a bit and then was out and Rodolfo Barrell and of course in the rest of the rest yeah so and Ferguson was renowned for that with Brian Kidd and Renny Moulinstein and Steve McLaren and so on and so forth the one thing that appears quite clear with Manchester United I don't know what you think James is that they are still searching for a game model a clear identity they've recruited I think quite well the the attacking acquisitions last summer the midfielder acquisitions this summer I don't think I think a lot of people would say they've raised the quality and the value for money in in their work in the transfer market they've shown restraint wherein the past maybe that restraint was lacking and and and they spent questionably but we're still watching them and maybe not quite sure on who they are what they are in in a way that we see more of with the with the Arsenal at the moment a Manchester City and and previous generations of Man United but it's not a fine science and so I would say there is credit in the bank for Michael Carrick and his coaching staff and people I know it was a different level but at Middlesbrough I remember seeing clips going viral of Michael Carrick's coaching technique and everybody going wow this is the the next big coach in European football so I think a bit of measure is needed around our analysis on him and his coaching staff but it is a legitimate area to scrutinize well what have you what have you made to United Star to the season and four points from four games well I think this while the recruitment has been better and you can see it a shape to the team emerging still incomplete would you not say would left back yeah definitely for example and you saw that yesterday as well because Luke Shaw wasn't even in the squad was it yeah so I think that's something that's had been an oversight maybe they couldn't get the target that they needed or they were prioritising other things David when it was Lewis always looked out um Miles Lewis Skelly was looked at as sort of left back stroke midfielder there would have been a number of different options right up until deadline day when they were offered the opportunity to go for Ryanate Nuri explored a potential loan I think city would have wanted quite a high obligation to buy man United weren't prepared to do that because he isn't seen as their long term sort of solution in that position which shows left back was a real area of interest at parts of the window when man United had already signed two midfielder's which was Andre Santos Andre Santos and Yuri Telemann's yeah and we all thought now they're going to go for a third and they were linked with Manucone and others um I heard that actually Michael Carrick's focus was the left back first right and that's when Lewis Skelly came into the picture after it was clear Lewis Hall couldn't be attained and then suddenly they pivoted back to the midfielder with Colors Belabor and then at the end it was can we squeeze in a mid a left back I quite sort of respect that they didn't want to do something just for the sake of it which could have come back to Haunt and they felt they had options with Luke Shaw with Patrick Dorgu with Harry Amass with Mazrawi if needed but it does now look a bit of an oversight that you would suspect is addressed sooner rather than later I mean even before the Manchester Darby you know there were columns like Jamie Carrickus yeah which was saying you know he is not the super coach he's not the person that he has talked about being an interim an interim in all but title yeah which that debate having already started before the Manchester Darby which you lose at home having had a man advantage for what the best part of 70 minutes it only increases scrutiny and we'll have to see what happens in their what final game before this very very long international break if you're Michael Carrick obviously you want to win every game you better hope that you win that game because three weeks is a long time for us to podcast you know about you know but I mean I think on the one hand he's perhaps helped by how many managers have gone in or stayed in international management which will talk about when we get to the nation's league next time around there are higher profile coaches than ever before choosing to stick or go again or take on an international job chaffey with the Netherlands for example Puccettino is signed a new deal although you know he's been talking to the English media over the last week which gives the impression that that door to come back to the Premier League is still open even though he's signed a new deal you've got Antonio Conte sat on there so far in Turin so yeah there are there are there are sort of options out there but maybe not really super compelling options which would inspire you to change and I wonder how much this Jim Ratcliffe this new kind of football side regime united they're experience of bringing Ruben Amarim in season I wonder how that would influence their thinking were they to consider a change in Michael Carrick right let's get another question and James has said what are ip switch and hold doing that Coventry aren't which is resulting in some early good results and is Gary O'Neill a better pick up than many were suggesting before the season started I really like Gary O'Neill he did a pretty good job at Bournemouth at Wolves at Strasbourg and I speak to a lot of people that know way more than me about football and coaching and management and who have spoken to Gary O'Neill know him seen him present in job interviews and they think he could be one of the best coaching in the years ahead and and into the future they rate him extremely highly so I've not really been given cause for much doubt with him at any point and I thought it was an ideal replacement for Kiran McKennau adip switch. Hull is a completely different page together because friend Adju Nalikali is like no other and Kiravitch has done really well there but in a completely different way to O'Neill I'm not sure that that's the sort of and by the way because I've seen a lot on social media about Frank Lampard's friends in the media are all protecting him that that's not the case at all he's he's at a bad start and it would it would be really interesting to see how things develop there because Lampard from what we saw and heard over the summer was not entirely convinced that he wanted to stay on at Coventry in despite bringing them up to the Premier League which had sounded a shock to a lot of people but you know he was looked out by likes of Crystal Palace not for the first time despite being in position with Coventry and I think he thought about it he would have seen the case of Kiran McKennau and by the way they have the same representation in terms of the agency that looks after them and Kiran McKenna came up to the Premier League with Ipswich he was spoken to by clubs like Manchester United, Brighton and Hove Albion, Chelsea and more I think were taking a Tottenham were linked with him too but he stuck with Ipswich and they ended up coming back down and when he came back down he did have interest I think Newcastle had him high in their thinking but not the same level of interest as before and did relegation harm him was he prepared to go back in for a second bite at the Premier League if he wasn't sure the Ipswich had maybe recruited well enough to do better than they did last time and Frank Lampard would have been having those considerations have Coventry recruited well enough and put themselves in a position that means we can compete to stay up this season and if not is how badly is it going to harm my career and reputation he obviously decided to embark upon it and I actually think the difference with Ipswich and Hove is that they've been here before maybe Illy Carly his owner hasn't been here before and he's loving life in the big time and the transfer market but Hove have been not before there are people at that club that know how the Premier League works and they've equipped themselves with the value of that experience so Hove Ipswich town they came back down they probably learned from their areas they've got very ambitious and wealthy owners in their own right and but Coventry are there for the first time and they don't have the level of wealth within their ownership as as committed and as it invested as Doug King has been that the others have and maybe in a harsh way this is their experience that they'll learn from and the Coventry fans are you know so enthusiastically behind them irrespective of what's happening and don't get me wrong Frank Lampard Coventry will try and turn this around really early maybe we'll look silly for saying something like this but I don't think it's so much what O'Neal and and your cure of it you're doing that Lampard isn't necessarily I think the clubs are maybe better set up at the moment which is no disrespect to Coventry Doug King denost in the sporting director it's more the stage they are on their journeys I mean they've had tough fixtures haven't they Coventry I know they're all tough in the Premier League but Arsenal City Brighton Hull is probably the game that they be most disappointed with yeah absolutely I mean Hull obviously started at the MKM against many United yeah yeah Hull as someone from there right they just I don't know if I knew this yeah because I shouldn't remind me of someone who shouldn't make sense and and yet it kind of weirdly does he loves it like you know in terms of keeping the receipts on your cure of it where you know what the whole daily mail and others were writing who is this guy this is this will never work and it does and their recruitment it's sort of it's early days but it reminds me of Sunderland yeah last year where you you could quite quickly discern that this team has something to it and I think that's true of Hull that there I don't know whether it's because there's truney sort of in this kind of Turkish super league milieu you know sort of it was involved when Fenerbahçe hired Joseph Merino I don't know whether he's he's kind of all part of that it's like oh who Fenerbahçe not been able to say I will get that player and for a team like Hull it works and it's yeah it's it's a head scratcher but it's yeah he's he kind of strangely gets the city as well you know remember when he first came and was going to local pubs no one expected him to sort of be you know going going down you know sort of spring band you do yourself and fans down yeah absolutely you didn't know James was from Hull no sorry I feel that that might have popped up before but yeah Hull was a European capital of culture and so we should know that James was and it's quite keeping with your European specialism moving on right we've got time for one more so this is coming from Anthony who says rumors of Arsenal interest in Rio en Gamoa have you heard anything there was also noise in the summer is that coming from Rio's camp and is he unsettled Anthony's my brother's name so I hope he hasn't put a curve boy in there to yeah yeah unless he's changed his surname by default no I think I think there is some interest from Arsenal in Rio en Gamoa there's surely interest from lots of clubs in him because he's such a precocious talent I did hear over the summer that they like him they're allowed to like him that's their prerogative it doesn't mean Liverpool are going to sell him they want to renew his contract he's tied down until summer of 2028 at Amfield I don't know of an agreement yet on a new deal so clearly that's something they'll try and progress and I guess when you've only got two years to go or less than 24 months then then maybe it can be open to speculation I think there was a story by Alan Nixon who was first reporting Arsenal's interest and that's what's led to a bit of noise around it and yeah I heard that they they have some interest in him but um I guess we have to wait and see what happens with him and Liverpool because there's no suggestion that he's unhappy there I reported over the summer that he was actually by Munich's top target at one point to strengthen in the wing position I think they've done quite a lot of work on it but it didn't develop Liverpool had no interest in in trading him I think Leipzig were another club credited with with interest what will be really interesting is to see how much game time he gets at Liverpool because wingers and Eriola you would expect him to be a real asset for them and and let's see how it develops just back on the Arsenal side of stuff then come January will they look again at China upgrade that forward line well they've given themselves the opportunity to because they didn't ultimately beyond the solace for proof but that was really a replacement for Trossard and Martin Ellie wasn't replaced, Gabriel Jesus wasn't replaced, Ethan Wenieri's gone out and loan there is a recall option there and although you know they've got to be very careful on the financial side of things they seem to be quite close to the line on the UEFA financial rules Arsenal so I don't know how much they can do but the fact that they and their ownership were willing to finance moves for Vinicius Jr if he had been keen on it for Julian Alvarez if he had been keen on it for Morgan Rogers if he had decided for them and they were willing to pay the transfer fee suggest that there is some capability of doing something they're an attractive proposition given that they're reigning Premier League champions champions league finalists so far unblemished in both competitions this season um I could see something happening of course because they they wanted to I thought they needed to in the summer and they didn't but that's not to say something is happening I don't know of anything brewing right now and and they don't look like they need it but you could see a world in which they could need it because of injuries because of you know at the moment they've been relying on Kai Havats to lead the line Victor Yoko-S is barely played so far this season um but I think more for them the key is to keep people fit if they can keep Havats fit if they can keep Ode to guard fit if they can keep Saka fit and bring him back to his goal scoring level solace has made a really good impact then they do have options there um but one of the intriguing things for me in the window and the transfer market going forward whether it be January or the summer is who is going to be the arsenal attacking recruit to help take them to even greater heights yeah yeah yeah um I think that's all we've got time for so thank you to everyone who sent questions in guys thanks for your company have you got any any nice Tuesday plans? Car about cock my nose paddling nose close to the grindstone am I yeah you're working tomorrow I have to write some nonsense yeah okay before you're reading that paddles Wednesday first day this week just two days a week I surprise it two days this week well could well there's a premier league game on Friday night that I need to do some work for that should be good uh but I think two days a week paddles it was pretty decent no I just think are you the iron strike me as someone who's been playing you could play six days a week I could and and it is not that I'm like a dozer and no no I'm not doing well yeah I just don't love paddles but it's where many stories and bits of information and connections come from because so many people in the football world are playing paddle now so it's it's a double benefit you have to do it fitness yeah and work I promise you athletic editor listening to this paddle has become work apparently um thank you for your company guys thank you for watching or listening as well and make sure you keep across the athletic for all the latest I'll be back tomorrow catch you then