Art de Roche on The Athletic FC Podcast: "Fourth for me is Manchester City."

The Athletic FC Hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Levantal, so the new Premier League season is almost upon us. So it is time for some predictions. We're going to be talking title winners, the chasing pack surprise packages and much much more. And alongside me to do that is the dynamic duo of Jay Harris and Art de Roche. How are you guys? You good? Yeah, all good. I'm recovering from five side last night. It was very hot. I'm all good. Yeah, very hot day. Hot predictions to come. Should be, do you get nervous doing this sort of thing? Like your colors to a mask? Yeah, sometimes. I think when it just comes to, as you say, being very, you know, forthright in what you're saying and you have to stick to it for a whole nine months, it is a bit nerve wrecking, but hopefully, hopefully I'm alright with some of my predictions. Are you good with predictions? I don't think so, maybe. I can't remember. I often just never go back and look because I'm too scared of what I've falsely predicted. We must make a pledge on this podcast. I will not be making that pledge. I'm making the pledge right now that we should go back to see if what we say today or what you guys say today comes true or you don't want to chip in there or is no, it's all on you guys. It's all on you. So by the end of the show, what we're going to be doing is getting both Jay and Art to predict their Premier League table from one to 20. So let's get stuck into it. Let's start with who's going to be in the mix for the title, asked not obviously kicking off against Coventry in the first Friday night football. They won the title by seven points ahead of Manchester City, 14 more points than Manchester United, 20 more than Aston Villa, 25 ahead of the then defending champions Liverpool last season. And only three clubs have ever defended the title in the Premier League era. Man United did it five times, Manchester City, three times Chelsea wants under Marinho, 12 teams, if you want to expand it back beyond the Premier League era. Jay, why do you think it is, is so hard in your opinion? You need to find that balance between keeping things the same, but also refreshing the team in key areas. So if we take the examples of Manchester United and Chelsea, I remember when me and Art More on a couple of weeks ago, and he spoke about Chelsea signing Mike Alessia in the year after they, I think broke the then Premier League points record total as well in Joseph Marinho's first but at the club. No one thought they needed to go out and do that, but they identified an area where they could upgrade with Manchester United. I remember they were the champions and in successive summers, they signed Carlos Tevez, Dimitar Burbotov, it's sort of finding that area of the team where you think you can give a substantial uplift to. And I also think it's about being a little bit ruthless with some of the players in your current squad. And we've seen Arsenal do that this summer, moving on Trossard, moving on Norgard, you know, whispers about Marcelo Esqueli. There's obviously an offer from Galatasaray for Martinelli as well. There's probably a temptation to be too loyal and to emotionally attach to these players you finally got you over the line, but sometimes you have to be ruthless and say, I know you contributed in a massive way for us, but actually if you want to kick on and keep the title and keep winning things, maybe we need to let you go and buy someone else. It's remarkable that none of the Arsenal sides in this Premier League are including the invincible didn't do it. Yeah, I mean, when you look at how they acted after signing, I mean, you look at the transfer window from 2004, Arsenal signed a 20 year old in Van Persie. I mean, that's not a slight on him. He's one of my favorite strikers from, you know, the early Emirates era, but he was 20, 21 years old when he signed, I think they signed Armonia and Flamini on a free transfer from from Marseille. So they're not really doing things in the same way or they weren't doing things in the same way where Jay obviously mentioned United signing, Burbatoff and Tevers. And in a way, weakening your rivals at the same time as strengthening yourselves, whereas they've done that a bit with Bruno Gilmouraich, obviously coming from Newcastle this summer. But yeah, I think in terms of Arsenal's history, I found that probably the most interesting thing is some of the fact that they haven't retained a league for almost 90 years. I think that's really insane in a way. And it'll be impressive if they're able to do that because Arsenal Venga wasn't able to do it. George Graham wasn't able to do it. And yeah, if McCartetta is able to do it, it puts him, I don't know, in a novel conversation. Obviously, you have to evolve the side in addition to bringing in the right additions. Have you seen anything having watched sort of the preseason in depth that shows that Michaela Tetra is wanting to try something new, tactically as well? Yeah, that was one thing I was looking at going into preseason. And I wouldn't say we've seen like glaring things that are different because a lot of the kind of regular players, regular starters, I should say, only just came back in full this week. But I felt that from the coma game this week, it was interesting seeing Bruno Gimmaris in this field with Martin Erdogard and Marzlis Skelly just because the dynamic was a little bit different. I think one thing with Gimmaris that I kind of maybe didn't appreciate as much when he was at Newcastle was his willingness to just pass forward. And we saw a couple of examples during that game, which I'm hopefully looking forward to seeing a bit more of as the season goes on because that just adds something different to what let's say Martin Zubimendi was doing in midfield last season. And again, not a slight on Zubimendi, but just having those different thinkers in midfield, I think could maybe be what helps us evolve a little bit more than what they were last season. We'll find out when you do your tables, whether you've put Arsenal atop the Premier League for the 2026, 27 season. But one of the big sort of themes of this season is the amount of flux involved in the table. 10 teams have either a new manager, all one that's in their first full season like Roberto Deserbian at Michael Carica at Spurs and Manchester United respectively. It includes all of the big six bar Arsenal, obviously, Deserbian, Carrick, Iriola, Maresca, Alonso. J for you, which of those managers do you expect considering, you know, the team that they've been plonked into hitting the ground running better? Well, sort of a cheated answer, but Deserbian, obviously. And I think a big factor in him joining at the midway point or towards the end of last season was an opportunity to have seven games where he got to know that squad on a more intricate manner so that they could then hit the ground running the season and have a better understanding of, OK, what are the, the weak areas of the squad? What could be done better? And they got a brief introduction to Deserbian, but actually he's spoken about how a lot of what he did at the end of last season was just about improving the Spurs players from a mental side. And what we've seen throughout preseason is them being more daring playing out from the back, what we saw with him at Brighton and Marseille. So I think they'll hit the ground running. And if you were to say someone who is just completely new, they've never taken charge of a game at that club before, maybe Maresca, because he's got familiarity with that Manchester City set up, although I know he's done a few interviews and actually pointed out most of the players he worked with when he was an assistant to Pec Guardiola, I've actually left only a few, I still around, may still understand that environment. Yes, man, city on perform last season. Well, they still want to cops. Their attacking options are still ridiculously good. So almost for like, he's quite, quite hard to mess, mess that up. It was interesting watching Maresca at Chelsea, because obviously he, he's slotted in. He won a, you know, a big, big trophy, one big one, one slightly smaller one. What's the big one? What's the small one? Well, I suppose there's some people might say that the club world cup isn't as big as what would you say? What would you say it's bigger? I would say the club world cup is bigger than the conference thing, right? Probably, yeah. Yeah. So I gave him, I gave him the club workup, the, the send off that Johnny would want me to. But in terms of how he operated, it was almost as if he thought, right, I'm, I'm at Chelsea, I'm a big manager, I deserve to be here. Do you think that he will feel, yeah, I can pick up the baton from Pec Guardiola and I can do this. I'm good enough to do this. Of course he can. It's the whole reason he left Chelsea in the, the middle of the season, right? Because man, city as David Onstein reported, a sort of lined him up as the first choice replacement back then. So if he was agitating for a move six months ago, he clearly believes in himself. And like I said, because he's got that familiarity with that environment, not just as an assistant, but also, I think he was in charge of the elite development squad at Man City for a while. It just sort of makes perfect sense for him to have that, that homecoming. Who's your pick of those, those new managers in all the ones that are coming into their first full season that, that you feel will, will really sort of be happy with their lot? It's, it's weird to say, because for how their pre seasons gone, but I really liked Iriola as a, as a coach at Bournemouth. And I know it's not gone as smoothly as they would have liked in pre season. And then they still need to make more signings. I know they bought a Raho from Barcelona already, but I feel like having someone who has a clear vision of the game and was able to implement it, as well as he did at Bournemouth, I'm really interested to see what he's able to do with that. It takes time. That's those first, yeah, maybe two months at Bournemouth. It did, you know, there were some TV issues. And I don't know how long it will take to get past those at Liverpool, but he's just someone that I feel like has, has the intuition and also the ambition to really play football. And he's someone that I'm really excited to see in a big, big club because he's been impressive over the last few seasons in the Premier League. Anna Slot won the Premier League in his first season. Not just Anna Slot, I think it's happened six times. Name the others. Marina. Yes. Pellegrini. Yeah. Antulotti. Yeah. I'll write this down. Go to Conte. Yeah. Slot. Ranieri. Very good. It did my homework. If we want to count first four seasons, you can add an awesome Vancouver. That might be a bit of a cheat code because he came in September, October 96. So he had almost a four season and then, you know, his first proper four season in 9798. But do you see any of the, the new guys being able to do that elevate themselves to the top? Honestly, no, because I think Arsenal are still the strongest team in the division. But I think part of the reason why some of those managers win it in the first season is because it can take time for opponents to sort of work out your tactics. So if you take Conte and his first season at Chelsea, for example, that famous day where they lost to Arsenal, when he switched to a three, four, three, I think by the end of the season, every team in the division was playing a three, four, three, it took so long for teams to to work that out. So sometimes these new managers, they come with fresh ideas, do things differently, and it just takes the rest of the competition a while to catch up. I don't want to spoil up our predictions too much. But, but Manchester City, the closest challenges, you don't see that sort of order changing much. Maybe we'll see. But I just feel like you don't expect them to be sort of dropping off fully because we lost all the way comfortably, but I'm just interested to see how that, you know, rework of the midfield goes because how do you use Anderson? Do you use it in a similar way to how he played at Nostlingham Forest? Or do you want him to drop a little bit deeper because Roger might still go? Do you use Buaddy if you get him over the line quickly enough in that in that row? And, you know, use Anderson a bit further forward to get the most out of his passing ability. I think that area of the pitch, obviously we haven't even really properly mentioned Enzo Fernandez as well. It's worth pointing out at time of recording. We don't know whether the deadline has been exact. Exactly. So I think there's a lot for Enzo Mereska to get right with the balance because those free players, once they're all in, they can all do very similar jobs or different jobs. And it's about picking the right one in a time where Manchester City are looking to, you know, transition into a different kind of era of going without Bernardo Silva, obviously, and potentially Rotary as well. City. Closest. Yeah. I'm intrigued to see what Manchester City like to do because there were just so much more. Yeah, we've not talked about them yet. There was so much more stable on the Michael Carrick last season and look from a journey perspective, that was a real shame because Amarim was just box office here every press conference. He did something mad, but Carrick has really just brought a sense of calmness to them. We have to see how they cope with the Champions League. We sort of thought they'd be maybe a little bit busier in their trance, and we know the summer. I'm not entirely sure if they sort of expanded their squad enough, as obviously a very glaring issue at left back. We have just luke sure fitness, but that's been an issue for about 10 years. So maybe if they fix that, then I do sort of wonder if they'll do even better than they did last year. Now, obviously this show is all about predictions, and Karl Anker, from the athletic, is bringing back his bad predictions amnesty for the new campaign. So if you don't know what that is, Karl is here to explain it all. Karl, take it away. Hi friends, now the Premier League season is back. It also means a return to our bad predictions amnesty. So, we've been doing this for five years now, and this is about X vibes, not XG. The idea is, before a ball is kicked, you tell me you're boldest, most baseless, wildest prediction for the Premier League season, the part your brain where you are watching a penalty, or you're watching a set of peace and go, they're scoring from this. It's not based on anything. You just want to get off your chest. So, lay it on me. Get off your chest, your boldest prediction for this Premier League season. We put more on the vault. We have a quick redo at the end of the January trance or window, and then at the end of the season, we look at it all over again. Remember, the goal isn't to be proved correct. It's about taking that nagging thought, just getting out your system. So, lay it on me. Excellent. Okay. Lay it on Karl. Jay, do you want to start? No, I can go first. Oh, I'm trying to get out of here. I don't know how bold it is, but I've had this feeling for a few years now that I really want the two-man striped partnership to make a proper return to Premier League football. And I feel like this could be the year that it happens, where obviously Jay earlier spoke about content in the 3, 4, 3, you know, everyone copy in it. I hope there's a team. And I think there might be at least one Yeah, who are you thinking? Bournemouth with Marco Rose. That, you know, trailer, and it goes well, and everyone, all of the sun goes, let's go back to playing two strikers up top. Arsenal have flirted with it a few times in recent years, but having gone like a four-season with it, I'd like to see a team really go for it and, you know, bring that back. Okay. So, return of sort of sheer a satin, quinn, Philips, that sort of. That sort of vibes. Yeah, a bit more recent. Jay. The sort of difficult years, I want to say something that's at least a tiny bit intelligent and forthat, but then Carl's saying just say it from your heart, your chest. So, a couple of random ones were going through my mind. So, people take your picks, first to maybe finish it by Liverpool, ESAC not to get more than 15 Premier League goals, are below not to being the job by December. I think they're my three. Okay. All just done in a spur the moment off the dome, freestyle. Producers, we can clip that up, right? Good. We're on that. Good. Okay. Well, we'll see. As Carl said, we'll come back to that in January, checking on them, and then we'll review them at the end of the season. Sorry. The key thing to make is that the transfer window has not finished yet. Because that's this point in time, as I said the other day, Tottenham's front free is Matisse Tell, Richardson, Dominic Selanki, maybe Kondagallagher in there. So, if you're in two, three weeks time, if that's still the case, then my claim that they've finished above Liverpool, it's not going to be the same. I just want that clipped up on record. You're right, right? Yeah. Done. We won't clip that. Okay, good. Excellent. So now, one of the big factors around making our predictions is, of course, as you mentioned, the transfer window. And this week, our football finance writer, Chris Weatherspoon, has written about how the Premier League's big six are raiding poorer clubs at record levels as the wealth gap grows wider and wider. Last season, 13 players move from non-big six to big six clubs. And I know that the areas, the sort of the edges around the big six are are blurring as well when you sort of bring in new castles. Take them out. Aston Villa, are they part of it now? We had, like, as they go into Arsenal, Gays, Menu to Man City, E-Sac and Milose Kirk has to Liverpool. How much harder does having top talent cherry picked away from you if you were non-big six side? How does it impact you and how frustrating is it? Or how much part of the model is it? Yeah, I think there is two parts to it. Yeah. Because, or I should say, there are two parts to it. Because you look at the fees that some of these players go for, E-Sac, for instance, I think part of it is the clubs who receive those transfer fees, maybe if you're willing to accept that it's going to happen a bit earlier, you may be able to reinvest a bit earlier and therefore have a better chance of being more competitive throughout the league season, especially in those opening weeks. But I do appreciate that when you look at those top teams in the league, an Arsenal have been doing this for years when you look at not just Eze, but you go back to Declan Rice as well in 2023, taking West Ham's captain. You can see, okay, there's a quality player here. Let's just take him. He's got that Premier League experience, which is something that I've seen as a premium now, and it can be, as good as it is for those top teams, it can be harmful for those that get left behind in the way. And you see, obviously, now, I'm not saying West Ham's relegation comes just because they saw Declan Rice, but it becomes much tougher to keep your, your players that have come through, let's say, an academy at those clubs. One other thing that's been on my mind for a couple of transfer windows is when I was growing up, sorry, to sound like old or ever, but it felt like he was a norm for top clubs to send their young players on loan within the Premier League, rather than having, let's say, sister clubs in Europe or elsewhere. So the examples in my header, Jack Wilshire, going on loan to Bolton, Daniel Starridge, going on loan to Bolton, let's say, Ruben Loftescheek, going on loan to Christopher Palace. And those loan periods were really beneficial for those players to then come back to their parent clubs, whether they made it there or not. And it just doesn't seem like that happens as much anymore. I do feel like part of that is because of the way, I guess, the ecosystem is now the teams who are low in the table have more money to spend as well. They're able to go to, let's say, teams in Europe, Brentfield are quite good at this actually when you look at how they scout in Europe and find hidden gems if you want to call them that and really sell them on for almost double triple the price in a couple of years time, Brighton as well are a good example. So I think the whole ecosystems changed. And I wonder whether we'll get back to a point where those norms that I talked about ever come back or whether they're just the thing of yes to you. It's interesting you mentioned Brighton because they know their position almost. They know their place in the food chain and they've made a very, very good project out of it. But then you sort of bring in Aston Villa, getting Morgan Rodgers taken away from them and teal him and so I know that's more of a sort of a contractual thing coming towards the end of his contract. Maybe they sort of thought, right, okay, we can we can let him go and bring someone else in. But then you've got the new castle situation. None of their fans after how the ownership took charge of the club and all the sort of the promises and the hope would have wanted all of those players to leave. So it's a really difficult dynamic, isn't it, for clubs to accept their position when they're selling a big gun to a club that is established as a big, big player? Yeah, the thing is every club in the world is a a selling club and I think some teams and new castle are probably the best example in the last couple of years really resist the idea, which is actually sometimes is very beneficial because it refreshes your squad. So obviously you mentioned Brighton, Art Mention Bournemouth and I know Brentford very well. So it is totally a part of their model. But the way they manage those situations is very different maybe to Aston Villa and new castle. So the two examples I can give you is the summer that David Raer joined Arsenal on loan from Brentford in 2023. Brentford had already signed Mark Fleckin as Raer's replacement. So that is done. Whatever happens with Raer is not linked to that. Succession planning. Succession planning. When they sold Ivan Tony to Saudi Arabia in 2024, right at the end of the window, they signed Ego Tiago in February 2024. Seven months before Tony leaves. Succession planning. Whereas the issue with new castle is that they just resisted the ESAC sale for so long last summer that it influenced the rest of their business. Maybe if they told ESAC early on, yes, they might have paid an extra 10 million pounds for a ticket ticket, but I might have got that job done. And I think it's just about working smartly, thinking long-term and sometimes teams just don't want to do that. And new castle have got themselves in a tricky situation if they've acted differently last summer. Maybe they would have only lost ESAC and Gordon, not to Nilean Gamaris as well. You always just have to think what's the knock on effect. And if we're talking about clubs that aren't a big gun and they have to plan accordingly and ultimately they just want to retain their Premier League status in the middle of the table. What is it like for a new team coming into the Premier League now? It's even more challenging. And we've seen club like Ipswich, they are currently fourth highest net spend in the league with a hundred million and they've made some smart signings and it's almost as if they've learned from their previous experience. Obviously they went down and now they're coming back up again. It's smart and they've got a manager who's got Premier League experience as well in Gary O'Neal. So that's going to be interesting to see how he fers. Yeah, I think the big thing always when you spend that much money is how they all gel together. When you look at their last Premier League season, I know different manager in Kira McKenna, but they were quite encouraging. Yeah, I felt anyway. Great football. Yeah, they played really well and they made an impression. So I think when you have, I guess players who are still part of that core around and then you add on top of that, you hope that you still have the ingredients of what makes you you, if that makes sense. And then you can build on that with players who have Premier League experience like at NECD or Sasha Lukich who wasn't really going to be a starter at Fulham. He plays here and there, but never regularly starting. Here you give players like that a bit more of an impetus as well. They're probably a bit hungry when they come to those clubs where they know they'll be starters and they can have their say on what's going on. So I think it will be interesting with Gary O'Neal as well. He's obviously very outspoken in terms of what he expects and how things went at Wolves, for instance. When he first went at Wolves, he was quite impressive, I felt, but then all the circumstances just go on top of them. So I do think they have a few players and the coach there that can maybe take a step beyond what they did last time, but I do still feel like it will be quite difficult for them because of how competitive the whole league is. It's strange to say that spending like almost over a hundred million still doesn't guarantee you staying in the league. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how their season unfolds. You're excited to see Frank Lampard back in the Premier League? I am actually. Or be it with a side that you would expect to still go down in Copenhagen. But maybe they might do a something, maybe. No, I am actually because when he was a derby, that team which had so many Chelsea loan players in it coming back to what Art said earlier, was really entertaining and fascinating to watch and then Chelsea are a basket case club. So that was that and then he took over at Everton in very difficult circumstances, but did keep them in the Premier League in one really chaotic season. So I think what I respect that appears Lampard has done is sort of gone away, reflect on what worked, what didn't work. And I sort of found himself a second home at commentary city in a sort of not got the monkey off his back because he's finally been promoted from the championship. That was probably quite a significant thing for him to drop down, sort of learn again and get another bite of the Premier League cherry. So I'm really intrigued. And they've broken their transit record three times or something like that. Signed Urinki from Norgesland, really highly rated Ghana international. So I've done some interesting things. Let's deal with, I mean, it might be one of the relegation favourites, you know, one of those newly promoted sides that might become a surprise package of the teams that were in the Premier League last season. Who do you expect to kick on this season? I mean, hopefully, hopefully, Spurs will kick on from that. I think that's an obvious one. That's a gift that I mean, that surely surely a given, isn't it, that they will they will kick on and they will be challenging for European places. I mean, they finished 17 back to back. So it only goes. They've broken a club. It's not going to happen. They've broken a club record twice, tonight, LeFananda has got really talented operators. It does really impressed by the Zerby tours the end of last season. I think they're going to, I think it's going to, I think it's an exciting time to cover Spurs and follow Spurs. Surprise packages. I do think Nottingham Forest will be better this season. Do you remember that this time last year, they were just, although it was not in the public domain yet, clearly there were tensions behind the scenes between Nuno, Espirito, Santo and Edu and that only emerged. I think the exact week before the start of the season or a couple of days before the start of the season when Nuno did an interview and he spoke about his relationship with the owner, but clearly that I've been brewing for some time. And then we obviously had Postercoglu's 39-day reign. I'm not going to say that they won't have more madness this season because that just seems to follow them everywhere. But Glasner over-attrieved in his couple of years at Crystal Palace. Yes, they sold and the sum, but I've kept Gibbs White, the sign who's been dear Monday from swatting this moon is a really good center back. So I just think they've done quite well in the transfer market a couple of years ago. They signed like Murray Hutchinson, James McAtey, you sort of hope that those players England under 21 internationals would kick on and do a little bit better in their second season. So Forest for me are there. I think they'll do better than they did last year. So like Spurs who finished 17th, Forest who finished 16th will kick on. I know you see what I've done here. From that position. You're surprised packages. I really like Leeds. I don't know if that counts. They signed Harry Wilson for free. That's a great sign. It's a top signing and I'm really looking forward to what he does with Leeds. And also I just feel like we've seen teams gone a lot of momentum. They're saying the second half of seasons and really take that into the following year. And I believe Daniel Farcoran Leeds and Dominic Cavern Lewin can do that. When you look at them, they were actually a team last season who at points went to two man's strike partnership in it. Well, it worked really well. So maybe that's why I have something in me. You've seen the green shoots. Yeah, that would really like them to do well because if you look at last season, I believe they finished 14th. But it feels like they should have been way higher than that. So adding Harry Wilson to the mix. Hopefully last season wasn't just one of those years where someone performs extremely well because they're looking for a contract. I don't think it was because even if we go back to Lampard's time at Derby, Harry Wilson was one of their key players. So yeah, he's always been someone that I feel has been really good quality. So I'd say Leeds and Harry Wilson might be a team to look out for. I mean, aside from Harry Wilson, what other players are you really looking forward to watching? Yeah, I hope any Arsenal affiliate people listening, forgive me for this. But I can't wait to see Cold Palmer and Morgan Rogers play together. I feel like those two combining. I love players who are able to link up together and play almost as if they're playing at the park or at power league. And those two feel like they can get a really good connection together. They've been best friends since they were a Manchester City together and to be reunited now. Again, I know I would have loved Morgan Rogers to have gone to Arsenal and to be covering him there. But I just feel like they will have a really nice connection on the pitch at Chelsea. And I feel like they'd be able to combine Crate and score goals for each other and spectacular ones at that. So when you look at Cold Palmer last season, I think he was missing someone who could really be almost on the same page. And I feel like their two players were positions almost won't really matter too much. One might be in the turn one, might be on the left at the right. They can both play in multiple areas of the pitch. And I think that would really help them. And Chelsea really make a good impression this season. Yeah. And if Morgan Rogers can get Cold Palmer playing back how he was two seasons ago, I think everyone's going to enjoy it because it was a joy to watch, wasn't it? What about your picks for the players that you're looking out for this season? I have two. One is pure recency bias, but Brian Majer. Because I remember reading quite a few times, our colleague Jacob Terns was work about the struggles to get him registered to play. And I sort of thought, not what's all the fuss about the 17 year old, but you know, he probably won't be in the first team for ages anyways. And then just for him to be, yeah, bullying PSG's defenders in the way he did the other night and to get that goal. Okay, let's see what his development could be over the course of the season. And then the other one is Luke of Uskovich. And the reason for that is there was so much talk about him last season when he was on loan at Hamburg. And it's left the spurs community feeling very conflicted about the decision to sell him to Brighton, 46 million pounds for a 19 year old, no, Premier League experience, but everyone thinks he's going to be amazing. So I'm intrigued to see if he can handle that step up into the Premier League. And if he does, how good is he going to be a spurs going to be turning around regretting making that self. So I'm going to go for those two. In terms of the new managers that we haven't really discussed yet that are new to the Premier League at full and Bournemouth Palace as well, Newcastle. Who do you see as the one to or two or three to actually go? Yeah, I know how to deal with the Premier League because it's going to be really tough for them, isn't it? Especially at those clubs. It's going to sound weird to say after that question being I know the Premier League, mentioned earlier, Marco Rose, coming to Bournemouth from Leipzig. I think again, Jay mentioned earlier, succession planning. And you see, I feel like at other clubs, it might have become toxic the way Iriola's time left, especially coming in the middle of the season. But Bournemouth, I think, were really good in the way they managed it. They found a successor before the season even ended. There were times I think where Iriola actually name checked Marco Rose and was really impressed by the way his teams had been playing. So I think the style is a nice marriage. So you're not bringing in someone who's a totally different type of manager. But then also he has the experience of dealing with European competition as well as the Premier League, even though I think his Leipzig teams, I think the first they got was the round of 16 in the Champions League. I think still having the experience of a free games coming in a week, especially in the group stages, could be beneficial to Bournemouth when they have, you know, an away trip to somewhere random in Europe. And they have to come back to the South Coast and they have the first day Sunday turnurons. So yeah, I think Marco Rose will be interesting to watch. And actually a player that I forgot to mention is Antonio Silver, who they bought from Benfica. He's been so nice. I regularly signed on football manager. So to actually see him in the Premier League and the flesh this season, I'm going to look forward to that because he's been someone who I think a lot of people in the football manager community have been excited about for a while. Are you a little bit more fearful over, you know, the potential difficulties at Fulham Palace, Newcastle? The one I'm really intrigued to watch his Newcastle and the actual, because I think the first thing I want to say is the way he's conducted himself in the last couple of weeks, I think has been exemplary, which is, you know, impress conferences and interviews, etc. He's radiated a sense of calm when behind the scenes, it feels like everything's on fire because they're selling their best players. They're going for ambitious targets and they're not getting any of them. And it's quite a daunting thing to walk into that, but he's done it. I think the, my worry for him is that Newcastle supporters are probably just frustrated with the direction of the club over the last year or two. Even going back to last summer, which we mentioned earlier, there was just like a vacuum of senior leaders at the club and no one was basically in charge of transfers. And I think Eddie Howard was too involved. Yes, they've rectified that. They brought in like David Hock concern as the CEO, Ross Wilson, who I think is the sporting director, but they're still having difficulties in signing their first choice target. So my concern for Yasser was that even if in the first couple of months of the season, results are okay. The mood at St. James's Park is not going to be particularly good, even though it's not necessarily his fault. It's just frustration with everything above him. And I think you mentioned Arbaloa, like, who knows really what's going to happen there. This time last year, he was in charge of Ramadrid's reserve team. By January, he's replacing Javier Lanzo, so it's been a remarkable turnaround. He doesn't have the same history and connection with Fullham that he did with Ramadrid, which enabled him to get that job in the first place. So I just don't think we really know what to expect from him. The flip side of that is Arbaloa's used those Madrid connections to bring in Garcia and Palacios. That could be really beneficial. They signed Shay Charles from Southampton, but Michael Silva did a great job there over five years. They've lost Wilson. They've lost him and his. I do worry for Fullham a bit. And we'll see what happens at Palace with PSage, who randomly, when we were doing our awards nominations at the end of last season, I put down as my European manager of the season after his performance at Law and Knowledge. Well, no, I just thought, you know, he consistently or last season came close to challenging Paris Saint Germain, which is such a disparity in terms of one of the big big leagues. I thought, yeah, fair play. So we'll see how he goes at Palace. Because it's going to be a big challenge. Let me get this right. You want us to predict and rank the Premier League table. And your only introduction at any point is to say, oh, look at me. I'm really clever because I said this guy was manager of the season. I was like, it's your palace. Well, no, because you can click this up. I picked him out because I thought, yeah, that's quite good. I don't know how he's going to do. I've got no idea. We shall see. It might have come across as big a hipster. I'm not a hipster. Don't worry about that. So we've talked about some of the issues. We've suggested at your thoughts ahead of the season. Let's get to the crux of it. Your predictions for the Premier League this coming season, 2026-27. You know, like when you were on walking to school when you were younger and one of your friends went, oh, did you do the homework? What homework? Yeah. And you just quickly rattle it out in 10 minutes and hope that the teacher didn't come to you in class. Yeah. Well, here we are. Well, here we are again. Okay. But you never know. You never know. Sometimes I mean, look, predictions are difficult. Speaking of homework, I've actually been learning Spanish. Oh, yeah. And I had my exam yesterday. So I did the revision for the first time in like nine years. Did you pass? I find out on the week. Oh, so I see. Stay tuned next week. This is good. I thought you was going to read out your table in Spanish, at least the numbers. Okay. Okay. Well, let's get stuck into it then. We'll do bottom fives, top fives, your bottom five art. So I've got whole city in 20th place, 19th place. I've got Ipswich. 18th place. I've got Newcastle United. Oh, that's a bottle. I like it. Okay. Good. 17th place. I've got Brentford and 16th place. I've got Coventry. Coventry City, I should say. Yeah. His pot takes, I'm listening, should have been Newcastle getting rid of it. Not a two man up front. Yeah. I know. That's it. We'll have a little discussion on it in a minute. Your bottom five, Jay. Whole city 20th, Ipswich 19th, Coventry City, 18th, Fullham 17th, Crystal Palace 16th. Okay. So you've sort of quite predictably, Jay, gone with the three promoted sides. You don't see it. Any of them, you just sort of see the usual commentary of the only ones I'm a little bit more intrigued about. Whole city, they want a particularly good team in the championship and they're what they've done in the transfer window is not inspiring. So I'm quite worried about them. Ipswich, I still think a lot of that team is just championship. Yes, they've signed a couple of Premier League players. I don't think they moved the needle massively. Commentary could surprise us. Okay. And that's with your side. You've sort of shown that Coventry finishing in 16th, they might be the ones that punch above. I mean, do you want to try and sort of save yourself in terms of when you go up to Newcastle? I don't know. I mean, and also with Brentford as well. They had a great season last season. They were a lot of people's picks for relegation with these Andrews coming in in charge. They did very well. So you don't think it's going to be any good for Brentford and no good for Newcastle. That's quite a decline. Yeah, I was looking at it and with Newcastle, I just can't get the, not just the number of the patches, but the actual players as well. I have left. I know they've brought in quite a few high profile names, but it just feels like there's so much change going on. And I just can't really see them being as good as they had been under Eddie Hale. That's cool. So yeah, that's all good. That's what we have predictions. Fun. Okay, let's now deal with our top fives. Okay, should we do them in reverse order starting in in 5th? Let's ping pong these ones, shall we? Cool. So our 5th. 5th for me are Manchester United. Aston Villa. Aston Villa. Art. Fourth for me. Manchester City. Okay, Manchester City. Chelsea. Chelsea. Art. Third. Third. Chelsea. Chelsea. Manchester United. Man United. Art. Second Liverpool. Liverpool. Up from 5 into 2nd. Iriola for Anne Boy. Second Man City. Man City. And top of the lot, you can say it in unison. Brentford. Arsenal. Arsenal. Okay, so you're both backing Arsenal to retain the title. I suppose the reading, reading, that's quite a drop off from Manchester City. Can you use that into 4th? I realised as I looked back at it, I was like, oh, I didn't realise I actually put them that far down. I think it mostly came from, I expect Chelsea to do well. And I just really like Liverpool's attack in players. I know attacks aren't going to get you too far if you don't have the right defence, but I just did not have a right winger at the moment. Yeah, but Isaac, what you put him out on the right wing. No, no, no, no, no, I'm just saying they have these players that I like. More than Harland, Cherokee, Docker, DoVNC, I think I've probably messed it up. I just want to put pressure on him. No, no, no, no, like looking back at it, I was like, wow, I really put a lot of stock into that. Man City would feel that. Read, read, read jig. So yeah, I think that would probably be not stick with it. You know, because if Manchester City finished 4th, you can just, you know, hammer me at the end of season. I also, part of it was the Moreska Factor. Like, I know he's one to, well, one big and one small person. As we call it. But in the league, you've seen how he's, you know, used players till they're basically, he just runs them into the ground quite often at Chelsea. That's what happened with Cole Palmer. So I just don't know if the similar, if a similar thing would happen with players at Manchester City. So yeah, we'll see what happens at the end of season. Interestingly, out of all 20 teams that you've both predicted, you've both picked four teams in the same position. Some people might say only four teams. Obviously Arsenal finishing top, hull finishing bottom, you've both got Ipswich second from bottom. And you both have Spurs finishing 10 places above their regular position in 17th in 7th. So they'll most probably get back in, in Europe. So it will, it will end well for Spurs. That's the moral of, of this story and Arsenal retain the title. I think with Arsenal, even though they won the league last season, I mean, a lot of those players can play better as a team. So I think they have the ingredients there to, you know, be better than they were last season. So that's why I've gone with that. I think I would have put Spurs higher if they'd made a couple of attacking signings. Because they don't have Europe this season, I just, I do think they're going to be a different prospect this year. What I want you to do if you're watching also if you're listening as well, dropping your one to 20s as well. And we can compare them with Jay's and arts predictions for the season. And we must stick to this pledge of coming back and reviewing it and reviewing it and seeing how far off or how good the predictions were in the end. Art, thank you very much indeed. Thanks to you, Jay. Thanks to Karl for coming on earlier on and his amnesty intervention as well. Thanks very much for listening. Wherever you get your podcasts, watching on YouTube, drop us a comment, subscribe, do all the good stuff, as always. And we'll be back with you on Monday. Take care till then.