🎙️ Men in Blazers •September 11, 2026 •⏱️ 29 min

Actor Jamie Bell On A Lifetime of Arsenal Fandom: Men In Blazers 09/11/26

1. Executive Overview: Core Theses & Key Revelations

When actor Jamie Bell joined host Roger Bennett on Men in Blazers on September 11, 2026, the conversation was framed not merely as a routine celebrity press junket for his historical drama The Up Rising, but as an intimate post-mortem of one of modern football's most compelling structural transformations. Arsenal Football Club had finally broken their 22-year Premier League title drought in the 2025/26 campaign. Having endured three consecutive runner-up finishes between 2023 and 2025, Mikel Arteta’s side completed an arduous, four-year marathon to reclaim English football's highest domestic honor. Bell’s appearance provided a rare, unfiltered portal into the psychological mechanics of elite fandom, the unyielding demands of modern squad management, and the emotional catharsis that accompanies long-awaited sporting redemption.

This masterclass feature essay examines three core theses emerging from the dialogue between Bell and Bennett:

  • The Psychological Architecture of Catharsis: Breaking a 22-year title void after three successive second-place finishes required an unprecedented operational and psychological recalibration within Arsenal. The transition from chronic anxiety to championship resilience represents a masterclass in modern sports psychology, redefining how elite organizations process collective trauma and sustain competitive urgency over multi-year cycles.
  • Paternal Metaphors and Leadership Evolution: The contrast between Arsène Wenger’s cerebral, grandfatherly paternalism and Mikel Arteta’s manic, hyper-focused operational intensity highlights a broader evolution in managerial archetypes. Bell’s revelation that he directly draws upon Arteta’s physical energy and relentless drive to construct dramatic acting roles illustrates how top-tier football management now influences contemporary culture and performance craft.
  • The Unforgiving Lifecycle of Elite Squad Rebuilding: Championship success demands ruthless squad churn, exemplified by the bittersweet, unceremonious exit of long-serving winger Gabriel Martinelli. The operational balancing act between cold meritocracy—spending hundreds of millions on transformational figures like Declan Rice and Riccardo Calafiori—and sustaining the academy heritage of Hale End prodigies like 16-year-old Max Dowman defines Arsenal's sustainable competitive strategy.

Through dense tactical contextualization, sociological analysis, and financial perspective, this breakdown unpacks how Arsenal moved from the fragile, banter-era years of Marouane Chamakh and Sébastien Squillaci to an authoritative, defensively elite juggernaut capable of absorbing early setbacks—such as conceding within 77 seconds against Chelsea—without structural panic.

2. Context & Background: The Landscape Leading to This Conversation

To understand the profound weight of Arsenal's 2025/26 championship, one must reconstruct the 22-year wilderness that preceded it. Following the legendary 2003/04 "Invincibles" season under Arsène Wenger, Arsenal embarked on a high-risk financial strategy centered on the construction of the Emirates Stadium. The resulting debt constraints forced over a decade of strict fiscal austerity, necessitating the sale of marquee captains—such as Cesc Fàbregas, Robin van Persie, and Samir Nasri—to direct rivals. The club's identity shifted from dominant domestic heavyweights to an organization compromised by structural frugality, earning a reputation for tactical soft-centeredness and operational drift.

By the late Wenger era and the tumultuous tenure of Unai Emery, Arsenal had fallen into a deep systemic malaise. The squad was burdened by bloated wage bills, fragmented dressing room dynamics, and sub-standard recruitment. Supporters were subjected to years of humiliating defeats—most notably the 8-2 thrashing at Old Trafford—and forced to watch a roster populated by transitional figures who lacked the tactical discipline required for elite European competition. Fandom during this era became an exercise in managing diminished expectations, where securing a fourth-place finish was rebranded as a victory.

Historical Epoch Primary Managerial Figure Key Structural Characteristics Sociological & Psychological Fan Impact
The Invincible Peak (1998–2004) Arsène Wenger Revolutionary sports science, fluid 4-4-2/4-2-3-1, world-class athletic profile. Expectation of dominance, aesthetic elegance, unshakeable cultural pride.
Emirates Austerity (2006–2016) Arsène Wenger Stadium debt management, forced player sales, technical mid-block reliance. Growing cynicism, acceptance of top-four finishes, emotional erosion.
The Drift & Banter Era (2017–2019) Wenger / Unai Emery Inflated wage bill, compromised pressing structures, recruitment failures. Existential fan alienation, toxic stadium atmosphere, "Arteta Out" movement.
The Cultural Renaissance (2020–2026) Mikel Arteta Non-negotiable behavioral standards, elite positional play, physical dominance. Profound emotional relief, championship validation, renewed generational belief.

When Mikel Arteta was appointed head coach in December 2019, he inherited a fractured club. His early tenure was marked by severe volatility. Despite an immediate FA Cup triumph in 2020, back-to-back eighth-place finishes sparked intense skepticism. A vocal segment of the fanbase spearheaded the "Arteta Out" campaign, questioning whether a rookie manager possessed the tactical acumen to reverse decades of structural decay. However, as Jamie Bell noted in his interview, the foundational green shoots were visible to those observing the team's underlying metrics: the immediate implementation of high-wire pressing, spatial compactness, sideline urgency, and an uncompromising commitment to youth integration.

The subsequent three seasons (2022/23, 2023/24, and 2024/25) represented an extraordinary test of organizational fortitude. Arsenal established themselves as Manchester City's primary domestic challenger, pushing Pep Guardiola's side to the absolute limit. Yet, finishing as runners-up for three consecutive years threatened to brand Arteta's project with the permanent stigma of near-misses. The psychological burden of falling short on the final weekend or suffering late-season stumbles created an intense atmosphere of fan trauma. Breaking through on the fourth attempt in May 2026 was not merely a sporting victory; it was a comprehensive purge of two decades of accumulated heartbreak.

3. Deep-Dive Thematic Breakdown

3.1. The Psychological Architecture of Catharsis and Sports Science

The central revelation of Bell's conversation centers on the intense emotional toll exerted by high-level football fandom and the scientific measures required to break a cycle of failure. Bell articulated the unique psychological condition described by his wife, actress Kate Mara: a perpetual state of existential tension where winning brings preservation anxiety and losing induces severe emotional distress. In a title chase, every match becomes a high-stakes stress test, eliminating the capacity for baseline enjoyment until the ultimate objective is secured.

From an organizational perspective, mounting a fourth consecutive title challenge after three agonizing silver medals represents an extraordinary achievement in human performance management. As Bell postulated, Arsenal’s internal sports science and psychological departments had to construct a rigorous framework to restore "the will to live again." In modern elite sports, physical conditioning is secondary to cognitive regeneration. Arteta’s staff deployed bespoke psychological interventions to prevent burnout, strip away the lingering residue of past failures, and reframe historical pressure as an empowering competitive advantage.

"They must have some real sport sciencey people who are just like, 'Here's the will to live again.' Because how do you start again after three years of coming second? To do it all again for the fourth time and get it on the fourth time of asking is unbelievable." — Jamie Bell

The physical transformation described by Bell upon securing the title—walking taller, feeling lighter, crying on the phone with a fellow supporter thousands of miles away in Los Angeles—underscores how deeply intertwined personal identity is with club performance. For a fanbase that had internalized two decades of banter-era mockery, the 2025/26 championship altered the physiological state of its supporters, replacing generational dread with unshakeable authority.

3.2. Paternal Metaphors and Leadership Paradigms: Wenger vs. Arteta

A fascinating analytical thread in the interview is Bell’s exploration of managerial figures as surrogate paternal anchors. Growing up in Middlesbrough without a father, Bell gravitated toward Arsène Wenger during his formative years. Wenger embodied an intellectual, cultured, and dignified archetype—a grandmaster who offered stability, moral clarity, and aesthetic perfection. For Bell, Wenger was less a traditional football manager and more a grandfatherly moral compass who elevated the sport into an art form.

In contrast, Mikel Arteta represents the modern, hyper-operational leadership paradigm. Arteta is defined by relentless intensity, obsessive detail, and physical dynamism. His sideline behavior—characterized by manic gesturing, continuous spatial coaching, and unyielding emotional investment—serves as an engine of motivation for both players and supporters. Bell made the remarkable admission that as a professional actor, he directly studies Arteta’s body language, focus, and drive to construct dramatic characters on screen.

Leadership Dimension Arsène Wenger Archetype Mikel Arteta Archetype
Managerial Philosophy Idealistic, organic freedom, aesthetic purity, self-expression within structure. Dogmatic positional play, high-intensity pressing, rigid spatial mechanics.
Paternal Framing Grandfatherly mentor, intellectual philosopher, protective guardian. Demanding elder brother / intense father, operational taskmaster, driver of standards.
Sideline Presence Stoic observation, hands in coat pockets, reflective emotional restraint. Micro-managing coordinator, kinetic energy, relentless vocal instruction.
Cultural Transmission Values of elegance, global sophistication, economic sustainability. Values of non-negotiable discipline, physical dominance, relentless winning belief.

This shift reflects a broader macroeconomic and tactical evolution in elite European football. The era of the romantic, hands-off visionary has given way to the micro-detail analyst who controls every square meter of the pitch. Arteta’s ability to project complete authority while maintaining profound emotional connection with his squad has redefined Arsenal's organizational culture, transforming passive talent into title-winning warriors.

3.3. Squad Churn, Emotional Attrition, and the Martinelli Departure

Championship cycles inevitably require painful roster decisions, a reality highlighted by Bell’s poignant reflection on Gabriel Martinelli’s departure from North London. Martinelli, who arrived in 2019 as an obscure teenager from Brazilian lower-tier side Ituano, embodied the early energetic renaissance of the Arteta era. His explosive pace, relentless defensive tracking, and fearlessness made him a fan favorite during the club's rebuilding phase.

However, elite sports operate under a cold meritocratic imperative. As Arsenal escalated their tactical demands—demanding hyper-efficient decision-making in tight low-block spaces and physical dominance in aerial duels—the squad evolved past initial fan favorites. Martinelli’s exit without an explosive farewell tour left supporters experiencing a sense of unfulfilled closure. Bell’s admission of "deep sadness" surrounding Martinelli’s departure captures the inherent friction between romantic fan attachment and the cold, calculated squad rebalancing required to stay atop the Premier League.

Conversely, the arrival and integration of transformational figures like Declan Rice exemplify the cultural fortitude of Arteta’s champions. Bell highlighted Rice’s iconic "It’s not done" reaction following a devastating 2-1 defeat to Manchester City in the preceding campaign. Where previous Arsenal teams would have buckled under the media narrative that "it's happening again," Rice publicly rejected the victim mentality. That moment of raw leadership served as a pivotal inflection point, cementing a collective resolve that ultimately carried the club to the 2025/26 crown.

3.4. Hale End Continuity and Youth Integration: From Billy Elliot to Max Dowman

Despite committing massive financial resources to establish an elite squad, Arsenal’s structural model remains deeply anchored in its youth academy, Hale End. Bell’s personal narrative—a working-class dancer from the Northeast of England whose break came in Billy Elliot—mirrors the romantic trajectory of young academy talents breaking through into multi-million-dollar environments.

The spotlight placed on 16-year-old phenom Max Dowman illustrates this unbroken lineage. Scoring a breathtaking breakaway goal against Everton on Bell’s 40th birthday, Dowman represents the next generation of home-grown brilliance. Under Arteta, youth integration is not a public relations gesture; it is a fundamental competitive pillar. In an era dominated by Profit and Sustainability Rules (PSR), developing elite, home-grown talent provides both tactical fluidity and vital financial flexibility.

Players like Bukayo Saka and Max Dowman provide the emotional soul of the club. They connect multi-generational supporters to the local identity of North London while competing at the absolute pinnacle of world football. For Bell, seeing teenager Dowman operate with total composure against seasoned Premier League defenders provides proof that Arsenal's resurgence is built on sustainable organizational foundations rather than short-term financial splurging.

3.5. Champions League Ambition: The Final Frontier

While domestic supremacy has been achieved, both Bell and Bennett emphasized the remaining void in Arsenal's modern cabinet: the UEFA Champions League. Despite decades of competing at the highest level of European football, Arsenal remain the only traditional global titan without a European Cup. Their recent agonizing semi-final elimination at the hands of Paris Saint-Germain underscored the margins that separate domestic champions from continental conquerors.

To establish a true dynasty, Arteta’s side must translate their domestic authority onto the European stage. The physical tax of competing across 38 Premier League fixtures while navigating knockout ties against Europe's state-backed elites represents the ultimate squad test. As Bell noted, while domestic success brings profound joy, European glory is the final frontier required to cement this era alongside the greatest teams in football history.

4. Speaker Perspectives & Analytical Contrast

The dynamic between host Roger Bennett and Jamie Bell created a rich narrative contrast, juxtaposing the cynical, long-suffering perspective of an Evertonian host against the newly liberated, triumphant euphoria of an Arsenal supporter. Their dialogue exposed contrasting psychological coping mechanisms developed over decades of watching their respective clubs navigate structural challenges.

Jamie Bell offered an exceptionally vulnerable, artistic lens on football fandom. Raised in Middlesbrough by a single mother, his entry into Arsenal fandom was entirely accidental—a £9.99 bargain-bin shirt pulled from a sports shop clearance vat in the early 1990s. Lacking geographic proximity or inherited familial allegiance, Bell adopted Arsenal as a mechanism for playground survival and personal identity formation. His commentary reveals how elite sport functions as an emotional anchor for creative individuals, providing visceral, unscripted drama that contrasts sharply with the calculated nature of acting.

Analytical Dimension Jamie Bell (Guest Perspective) Roger Bennett (Host Perspective)
Primary Emotional Framing Triumphant catharsis, emotional liberation, deep pride in structural process. Existential self-deprecation, satirical skepticism, Evertonian posture weariness.
Perception of Arteta Dynamic leader, artistic inspiration, master of physical and tactical drive. Ruthless strategist, intense motivator, architect of an intimidating machine.
View on Squad Evolution Bittersweet romanticism (sadness over Martinelli, wonder at Dowman). Analytical focus on financial muscle, squad depth, and modern super-club realities.
Coping Mechanism for Stress Vocal television shouting, shared emotional releases, crying with fellow fans. Dark humor, historical resignation, satirical framing of fan suffering.

Roger Bennett, operating from the perspective of an Everton fan whose posture is perpetually weighed down by decades of structural instability, probed Bell on the reality of being freed from existential dread. Bennett’s line of questioning sought to determine whether winning the title actually cures fan anxiety or merely elevates the stakes for future campaigns. Their interaction illuminated a fundamental truth: in top-tier football, victory does not bring total peace; it merely shifts the burden from hunting the crown to defending it.

5. Strategic & Industry Implications

The broader implications of Arsenal's 2025/26 title victory extend far beyond North London, signaling a profound shift in the macroeconomic and tactical landscape of the Premier League. Arsenal’s ascent demonstrates that breaking a dominant hegemony—such as Manchester City's multi-year reign—requires a synchronized, multi-year organizational alignment encompassing recruitment, sports science, academy pathways, and absolute executive backing of the manager.

Tactically, Arsenal’s championship validation confirms the supremacy of out-of-possession dominance. Arteta’s blueprint is built on non-negotiable defensive compactness, set-piece efficiency, and spatial control. The ability to go behind early in high-stakes matches—demonstrated in their recent 2026/27 fixture against Chelsea where they conceded after 77 seconds—and calmly stick to their operational patterns without inducing panic reflects a team that has internalised championship composure.

Furthermore, the conversation touched upon the fascinating intersection of global media, celebrity subcultures, and football's expanding reach. Bell’s revelation regarding actor Andrew Garfield—secretly tracking Arsenal scores on a mobile phone in a muddy Munich field while playing a 14th-century peasant in The Up Rising—illustrates how modern football functions as a global background narrative. Regardless of geographic location or professional status, the emotional draw of the Premier League binds global figures across diverse creative industries.

Domain Pre-2026 Paradigm Post-2026 Championship Reality
Tactical Identity Brittle technical play, vulnerable to high-intensity pressing and physical duels. Elite out-of-possession structure, set-piece dominance, psychological composure under fire.
Squad Composition Over-reliance on individual brilliance, thin bench depth, fragile rotation. World-class physical profiles (Rice, Calafiori, Gabriel), seamless youth blending (Dowman).
Financial Strategy Reactive market moves, high-risk wage commitments, inconsistent exit valuations. Targeted marquee investments, proactive PSR management, ruthless squad churn.
Cultural Reputation Perpetual runners-up, mental vulnerability, easy targets for media skepticism. Defending champions, formidable mental resilience, benchmark for club rebuilds.

From an industry governance standpoint, Arsenal’s balanced model—combining heavy outlay on world-class anchors like Declan Rice with home-grown development—offers a sustainable template for clubs navigating modern financial regulations. In an era where PSR violations and regulatory scrutiny threaten unchecked spending, Arsenal’s title victory proves that elite organizational planning and coaching development remain the ultimate competitive force multipliers.

6. Looking Ahead: Unresolved Questions & Next Milestones

As Arsenal navigate their status as defending Premier League champions in the 2026/27 season, several critical strategic questions will dictate whether Arteta’s project becomes a single-title triumph or a multi-year dynasty:

  • Managing the Weight of Expectation: How will the squad handle the psychological shift from being the chasing underdog to the target every rival seeks to dethrone? As Kate Mara observed, defending a title brings a distinct form of stress where every draw or defeat is amplified.
  • Conquering Europe: Can Arteta balance domestic title defense with the physical demands of winning a maiden UEFA Champions League trophy? Securing European silverware remains the final requirement for total global validation.
  • Sustaining Hale End's Integration: Will prodigies like Max Dowman receive meaningful rotational minutes in high-stakes matches, ensuring the club's home-grown identity remains vibrant amid heavy squad depth?
  • Managing Long-Term Contract Cycles: As marquee players approach their prime physical years, how will technical director Edu and the executive team manage squad turnover without causing the emotional disruption seen in Martinelli's exit?

The conversation between Jamie Bell and Roger Bennett on Men in Blazers captured a historic moment of inflection. For Arsenal Football Club and its global fanbase, the 2025/26 Premier League title was not the end of a journey, but the arrival at a new baseline of excellence. Freed from the weight of a 22-year drought, Arteta’s side now walks taller, lighter, and ready to carve their name into the permanent pantheon of football royalty.

💬 Key Quotes & Speaker Breakdown

Transfer news/Player departures

"I think there is a kind of deep sadness about the way Gabriel Martinelli has left the club. I just feel like I didn't really get this closure, the send-off with him, because I think he is an unbelievable player."

— Jamie Bell

Mikel Arteta's early tenure

"I was really excited when Mikel Arteta was hired. But it didn't go so well initially. There was a lot of 'Arteta out'. I only believed because of his use of the younger players. You could see him on the sidelines, the pressing, the urgency—you knew if you gave him time, we could go somewhere."

— Jamie Bell

Arsenal's Champions League ambitions

"The fact that we don't have a Champions League yet is kind of astonishing. I just don't know how that's happened, but it's true. So I think we have to take care of that."

— Jamie Bell

Arsenal Premier League title win

"When it was done, I was thrilled. I called a friend in LA. He's a long time Arsenal fan. We cried together. You just walk so much taller, so much lighter."

— Jamie Bell

Mikel Arteta's influence

"I throw on a lot to these paternal figures. Arsene Wenger really was that for me. And now with Mikel, I'm basing characters off of him, like I'm pulling from his focus and his energy and his drive."

— Jamie Bell

The psychology of football fandom

"My wife said it almost matters too much to you, which is why I love you. She said when we win, it's a problem because it's stressful because we need to keep winning. And when we don't win, it's a problem because we're not winning."

— Jamie Bell

Arsenal's mental resilience

"They must have some real sport sciencey people who are just like, 'Here's the will to live again.' Because how do you start again after three years of coming second? To do it all again for the fourth time and get it on the fourth time of asking is unbelievable."

— Jamie Bell

Celebrity football fandom

"Andrew Garfield is a massive Arsenal fan. He kept that very quiet. Even when we were filming in a field in Munich that looked like a solid standard for England in the 1300s, he was locked in."

— Jamie Bell

Arsenal's decline and resurgence

"There was definitely a time where I was like, 'Am I going to put on the shirt?' It was tough. There was no belief. And that's so much part of it, right? It's just that you just have to believe we belong here."

— Jamie Bell
📜 View Full Episode Verbatim Transcript 29,314 characters
You're listening to the Men in Blazers media network. Subopt and more radio. Hi, I'm Jamie Bell, and I support Arsenal Football Club. My guest today is a remarkable actor. James Milner-like in his versatility delivers in every single role, something where there's a woodwing debut in Billy Elliot, film classic Snowpiercer Rocketman, the magnificent TV series Half-Man, and now this week's historic wonder, the uproarising, which we'll delve into in this show. He's also proper, proper, Arsenal Football Club. His heart will leave you never to join to welcome Mr Jamie Bell. Thank you so much for having me. I do. Great to have you make the mistake of coming back for a second time, but Arsenal Football Club, congratulations. Finally, like a bassist of first role in the Rock to the top of the hill, Premier League champions, how's it changed your life? In a very distinct way, you can feel it. You feel a chemical change within your body. You do, I wouldn't know. A thousand per cent. Tell me about it. I was shooting something at the time, and there was a lot of football fans of other clubs who were just willing it not to happen, willing it that we were going to choke, and willing that we were going to bottle it that whole thing, which is all part of it, I understand, and we had come very close and haven't gotten over the line so many times. I understand where that was there, but man, when it was done, I was thrilled. I mean, I called a friend in LA. He's a long time Arsenal fan. We cried together. I guess we're crying. But you just walk so much taller, so much lighter. I was over the moon, and just so happy because it'd be so easy to just go. It's never going to happen. And to become so close so many times, and for it to not to happen, for those guys to go again. So many times is is a real testament to their credentials. Jim, well, we have got to talk about it all. You've also explained why my posture is so bad. It's just the everton in me. But we're speaking at this magical time, not just defending Premier League champions, but you've got your new film, The Up Rising, opening today in Andrew Garfield. He's magnificent as the plow man. He's speaking about how difficult the filming conditions were when you're on location. It took about quote one field in Munich that looked like a solid standard for England in the 1300s. I don't know, Andrew, is also a massive Arsenal fan. Did you not know this? No. There you go. He kept that very quiet. There you are. The plow man was not an Arsenal fan. So he was keeping that in the role. He was on to it. But I did wonder whether like you're in that field. Was he talking to you when he said that? Was he talking to himself? Was he trusting? Well, I don't know. I was just like, because that would tell you, the making of the film, there's a lot of football chat going on. Because Paul, I don't know if you know Paul's a massive Christopher, our first assistant director was his also an Arsenal fan cliff. And Johnny Lee Miller, who's in this movie, is a big Chelsea fan. So we were in Nuremberg in the hotel watching Arsenal and like a little screen like in the hotel, a bit sad. But so there's a lot of football chatter and every time Paul will come up, he just want to talk to me, especially about football. And all the Arsenal, they're going to bottle it again. Are you going to fall the last hurdle? He's talking to a 13th, 14th century heretic. And all he wants to do is talk about Arsenal. But Andrew would always just roll his eyes and look. Oh, there's football talk, man. Yeah, he's the plowman. He's locked. He's locked in. He's in the nose. Even Arsenal. I didn't know he was an Arsenal fan. That's news to me. The only truth is it feels like this Arsenal. So he did begin in the 14th century. This is how long this epic Odyssey has gone on. I've got to say, 2026, a massive year for you, personally, professionally, addition to the uproarising, Kusod and the, I mean, this is the quite emotionally devastating in the best of ways, half-man. And you also turn 40. Yeah, I experienced Arsenal's first Premier League winning season in 22 years, for you 40 personally. And then this milestone, Arsenal winnings, that they feel utterly connected. Yeah, because I mean, when we did so well before, it was in my youth, and in my youth, kind of, it's something big happened to me. I was in this movie that kind of like changed my life. So you mean, a lot of my life has kind of been very closely linked and associated with Arsenal. So there's 22 years in the wilderness, for say, I mean, there's been some success in between. Charity killed here. Yeah, it's a trophy. A couple of few epic ups in there. A few fourth place finishes, but yeah, it's the way it has felt long. And now having like kids, like you're raising kids who now follow Arsenal, and they're like, have we ever won anything? Did we ever win the league? And you're like, God, I guess they've never seen it. I've seen it with my no knowledge. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's youth is wasted on the young Arsenal glory of your youth, which you thought would go on forever. Of course. I mean, I do love your birthday. Forty of same day, as Max Dalman scored that incredible breakaway against Everton, who won two now 16-year-old, possibly the best gift ever. Certainly one of them, I think, down as an unbelievable talent. I mean, I think like winning the Premier League was definitely a gift. I mean, if I was greed, I'd be like, could we go on further and do it against PSG? You know, in that game, it was just so close and they fought so hard, but listen, I'm so thrilled for them, I'm just so thrilled for them and all the hard work that they've put in. And I just completely changed the club. Top to bottom. The Emirates are a different place now. It just is. Well, let's talk about this transformation. By the way, down and too young to drive, too young to drink, too young to vote, but not too young to break my heart, so talented, so young. It's like a footballing, Billy Bloody Elliott. I want to relive this arteta experience. I mean, it is ten years since we last spoke 2016. You came on the show and you said, my identity is as an actor and an Arsenal fan. Those are the dominant sides of who you are. Just remind us, because it is an incredible story. You grew up in Middlesbrough, far, far away from London. How did you become an Arsenal fan? This thing that now propellers you deep in your identity, because chances are beautiful. Some people may not know. I was a dancer when I was a child. So in the northeast of England at that time, for boys, just wasn't the done thing. Didn't have a father, so didn't have that hand me down kind of club thing. Didn't have cable TV, so like couldn't really watch the Premier League anyway. Like my version of watching a game was CFX. You know, it tell you text right on the TV. Very early internet, very early. So I said to my mum one day, I just said to fit in on this playground, to just kind of be accepted. I need some kind of team. Your team is your identity. I need something to wear proudly. I need something to talk about. And she went to, you know, one of these sports shops. You know, they might not have them anymore. They certainly don't. But they used to have like these bargain bins, these like £9.99 kind of grama shirt. The old stuff. Exactly. And she dunked their end in there and pulled out a team that was 300 miles away from where I lived. She put her hand into a huge vat of shirt, pulled out his fate. Correct. No, and it could have been any team. And by right, I should be, you know, a Middlesbrough fan. Like that's, you know, geographically speaking. That's who I should support. But, and by the way, when she gave me that shirt, we weren't, you know, pulling up trees. Like we, I think this was like £92 and £93. We'd maybe want like a European cup, I think. A cup when it's cup was something. This is pre-brews reoc. Then reoc comes in for one year. I think we finished like 13th in the league, sign burcamp, rsn comes in. And then that's it. But you ever think, if you moment put a hand in this big bargain bin and like pull that another shirt. Met, there was a different person. Different human being completely. Yeah, possibly because I think, and I still do this to the stand, it's probably a mistake. But I throw on a lot to these paternal figures. And rsn venga really was that for me. He was like this classy, intelligent, grown-up, you know, who I really admired and really looked up to. You told me last time you came under. He was like, you felt like he was your grandfather. In some ways, yeah, yeah, definitely. And now with Michele, like I'm basing characters off of him, like I'm pulling from him, like his focus and his energy and his drive, I just think is kind of unmatched. It's unbelievable to look at. What character have you pulled from Michele? How I'm saying but, you know, like he's a useful, he's a useful vessel for me in that way. I'm going to be going deep this weekend on the whole Jamie Uve and then working out pinpointing. I'm going to be fun. If your mother pulled out a spur shirt, do you think you'd just be like a completely different person? Yeah, I often think about, like if my dad was a Liverpool fan, I'd be like, different, happier. Yeah, do you think it does affect you? Do you think it does affect your chemistry? Oh my god, yeah, it's like my world view is just dark and like saddened Johnny Cash is her. Yeah, I mean, there was one other Everton fan in my school growing up, his name was Keith Robson. I'll never forget him because he was the only one. It's Keith Robson now. I don't know, I don't know. Keith, if you're out there, please tell us. You lived a life of wonder, contentment and human purpose, I need to know. But you did become an asshole for an incredible time. As you say, Venger arrived, legendary manager, quickly in the peak of his past, transformed the league around him. Take us there, who's your childhood hero? No camp and Tony Adams. Weirdly, I was drawn to all the addicts in the teams of Paul Merson. I don't know why I was, as a young boy, who wasn't a drinker or whatever. I was drawn to those troubled people who would come through something and overcome something and then achieved unbelievable things. I was just drawn to those kinds of stories. The brokenness that could give you a sense of wholeness. Kind of, Tony Adams, Tony Adams again, I was just this pillar of strength and power and resilience of what the things that you'd overcome. And then Bergkamp was just dancer to dancer. He was a ballet ballerina, yeah. I was like, who's game like me? You can do like these amazing spins and that Newcastle goal, the Newcastle goal. I still watch it randomly to sometimes like Bergkamp for you, Newcastle. And just watch it. Berish Nickoff or Bergkamp, I mean. Yeah, same thing. Best thing. Same. You didn't know at the time. We never know in life when it can peak. That you wouldn't experience happier moments than the wins, the invincible team. But football chains on Arsenal, money poured in, all the gold money at Chelsea, nation state money, and Venger fell from demigod to suddenly all too human and flawed. And you then watch fast forward two decades of football in which agony set in, you know, you'd begun to watch where trophies were expected, suddenly you're watching light, barren years. And the team lost its way. You were suddenly watching Squillatchy, Javini, Shamaq. Aha. Sure. Yeah, there was definitely a time where I was like, oh, am I going to put on the shirt? I don't know. It was tough. It was rough. You said it was quoting green to mess up the team. Messing up was almost the destiny. Yeah, because there was a lot of those games where we'd start getting beat like eight, too. You know what I mean? Or we'd turn up to like men's city games and it was just a given like we were going to get eight, three, no. But it's just inevitable. And there was something about this, the idea that Arsenal are a soft touch. If you just get one goal, they will fall apart, just completely dissolve in front of your eyes. And they did. Then it was true. Yeah, there was no, because there was no belief. And that's so much part of it, right? It's just that you just have to believe we belong here. This is our time. And I think that just eroded, it just disappeared. I think with sales, I think losing Fabregas, losing Vampersi, things like that, losing like a bit of the identity of the team and not replacing it in that way. And not having homegrown talent, you saw like the difference at Sakamid, immediately. They were like, he's one of us. He's one of us. He's our own, you know, Emilsmith Row. You know, like just that here in the Academy product just brought so much pride. Ainsley May and Nile. Absolutely, Eddie and Kerry, you know, like, you know, it just brought that sense of, this is who we are. And we lost it. And it's so important, you know. Do you remember what you reaction was? You're feeling when Micheal Otetta was hired as Arsenal's manager at December 2019. Can you resummon the emotion when he walked it to the club? I was really excited. I was excited because obviously him as a player is one thing. He was a very, very good player. He's time with Pep. Obviously, I think gave you a sense of what he had been around, what he'd been witness to, the kind of ethics that he'd been instilled in him and the tactical stuff, obviously. But I was excited. And then it didn't go so well, right initially. This is important to remember. It did go well at all. Yeah, there was quite a few games. I mean, it was like in double digits of games, right? 2021, Arsenal lost the first three games where I combined screw of Nile. A lot, a lot of Artetta out. Did you always believe in that moment? Was it a time when your trust in the process was wavering? Only because of his use of the younger players. Was it kind of, did it kind of feel like we're growing something? We have to seed it correctly. It's not going to happen overnight. Because I think the memory, it was only one season, wasn't it? The memory, yeah. And I was in London. I was actually filming Rocketman that year. So I went to a lot of those games. And you could just tell there wasn't like, we did go on a bit of a run. There was a run where we kind of went on beaten for quite some time. And it was like, there's something happening here and then it just kind of dissolved. But even in those early stages with Artetta, it just always kind of felt like the demand that he put on, the expectation that he was putting on the players, that spoke like volumes, volumes about like, you could see him on the sidelines just like the pressing, the urgency, the off the ball stuff that he wanted. You could see it. And you're like, if you give him the time and you get to the right players, we could go somewhere. You could see it. His expectation was that belief and the team had to raise up. So I mean, last four seasons, I've got to say it was in neutral. It was honestly like, another see that Christopher Nolan could make into a movie. This club, your boys fighting English school and derision, an incredibly powerful, there's any opponent that, trying, feeling, being mocked in that repeat, always the bridesmaid, never the brides, bottleers. You know, that, my god, that one of the most crushing, damning words, but it was harder to watch at times for me than the hospital fight in Hoffman. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I mean, there's a lot of last season, which was horrific to experience, to go through. It was absolutely awful. Yeah, it was awful. Because of all those three previous years before that, you're like, please not again. I just don't think I can do it again, you know. The grinding out the one-nils or the two ones or the, you know, just every time, you know, just the nerves. My wife was also, not to put any of this on my wife at all, who was an Arsenal fan and has only been supportive of everything else, but she went on to a Chris Evans radio show. Yes. And this was in the right, as we're kind of closing in on the season. And Andrew Mangan, I consider it a friend of mine and he runs the Arsenal Asplug podcast. And he's brilliant, brilliant. He is brilliant. And James and James from Nicholas Dude, an unbelievable job, if you don't listen to it, subscribe. Even he texted me after my wife did that thing going like, so your wife was doing the rounds. And you know, it was this whole belief of like that Arsenal fans are somehow kind of, and she didn't mean it this way, but at all. But it was this idea that Arsenal fans are just completely irrational that we are. Where would you get that idea? But I don't know. She said what she said was amazing. And by the way, brilliant, brilliant word, Shakespeare, came more on Arsenal. There's levels, there's levels shakes here. These are words, when we win, through a self in that, when we win, she said, by the way, that you were the most intense fan. She said, it almost matters too much to you, which is why I love you. She said, when we win, it's a problem, because it's stressful, because we need to keep winning. And when we don't win, it's a problem, because we're not winning. Yeah, in those seasons where you're going for the league, and it hasn't happened for 22 years, and you're so close to it, and you feel like, you know, you're there, you're almost there. Of course, you want to win it more than anything, you want to win it more than anything. Yeah, she's absolutely right. What did you say to her afterwards? You're like, Kate, you ruined it for all of it? No, not at all. No, not at all. No, not at all. No, it was just funny that it was like even reaching back to like the arsenal of fear, you know, like even like people like man going to go. Because she named that feeling, like, do we love again when we've had our heart shattered too? How can you love again? Yeah. I mean, it is exactly that. So even when you were winning ultimately, you were miserable. For 90 minutes, yeah. Yeah. And then when it was done, it was like, oh, thank God, it's over. It was the sensation. You know, I mean, this season has been a different start to the season, right? Like, there's just a different, we know now, there's a breath that you can take. There's a, there's a, a sureness almost, I think. And from what I've seen at least so far, there's a belief. This season is crazy. And you, this belief word that is now the motif of this interview. And I think is actually utterly true. There was this ridiculousness where every Arsenal player we had on the show last season, we'd asked them towards the end. That old motif in English football, you don't know how to win a title until you've won a title, which is a catch 22, ridiculousness. But it was like a stick that, down that stretch, you were being beaten. I mean, who were you enjoying watching? Who is your favourite player in this career? In a team. In current spot, yeah. Well, changes, I mean, like, I just think Sackers is this unbelievable beacon of beauty and greatness and hope and aspiration, you know, I think he's unbelievable. But then, you know, I think people like Gabrielle, unbelievable, and Martin Urgard. And to be honest, I will say this, there is a kind of deep sadness about the way Martin Ellie has left the club. I think it's kind of, I just feel like I didn't really get this closure, the send-off with him, because I think he is an unbelievable player. Great ethic gives everything. I know he was like, it was like an incredible emotional wrench and I think it's one that will... Yeah. I'll be remiss not to mention Declan, obviously, who's Declan in the last season. And the show may go to that moment now. Yeah, but I mean, here Rose Journey's not easy. You lost the man's city. We know this two-one. We can laugh now. But every pundit, immediately, you know, it's happening again. But then those cameras found Declan, I took a lot of crap for it in the moment, famously mad. It's not done. Unbelievable. What did you feel in your heart and in your head in that moment when you watched her? In the moment, it was totally different, because in the moment, I was like, f***ing. Declan, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no and then you look up and you say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no A little story that's trapped in a big story. What is it that you represent so much to so many people in this moment humanly? I think it's just kind of the ability to kind of experience joy that's been fought for through hard work and discipline and, you know, belief and desire that just feels like it's earned granted there's hundreds of millions of dollars behind the scenes that have, you know, been handed over to get these unbelievable players, you know, Declan Rice, we got them off price, obviously, but that aside, the, you know, the, the, the premier legness of everything, the global money, the billionaire stuff aside, if for fans and the players especially, it's just joy because of the hard work and what you've been through and, and sharing that with another human being is that's what it's all about. What was it been like for you to watch this season, the different vibe with that goal patch on the sleeve and, and, and almost a different mentality, freed of the baggage? Yeah, I just feel like you can sense that in the players. The Chelsea game, for example, going behind after whatever, 77 seconds or whatever it was, you can just kind of sense that there's no real panic. There's just kind of heads down and just kind of get on with doing the thing, just keep pushing, just keep pushing, eventually it will come. I feel like that was always missing before and now that kind of sense of, we did it before, we can do it again, isn't it? If Kate Maura went back on English television and said, what would she say now that because we've won, it almost makes it more now, the agony is more because we've won, we've got to win again, or would she say, Jamie's a different man watching, he's freed from desire. No, I don't, I don't think she, because, you know, what are we like now four or five games in the season? I'm still shouting at CV. I'm still like, mine, what are you doing? You know, whatever. So it's still, I'm still, it's still, it still means just as much. I'm just really proud of the players. I have a pride for the staff, like, you know, all of them. There's just this unbelievable sense of pride that you have, which was always there before, but because they have something to their names now, you know, forever and grand on that trophy, I just, they just feel so happy for them all, you know, I just hope that they feel lighter in their boots, you know, that's for me. If you could stop being Jamie Bell and do a freaky Friday, like, a film or whatever. Oh, I still have dreams about this all the time. Who would it, one player, who would it be that you wish you could switch out for? Jamie Bell could become. Oh, I mean, I have to play for us, right? Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, Burkamp. It would be the modern team, though, this whole of the modern team. Yeah. Um, Martin, because it's like, he's, you know, there's so much thinking that goes on and there's so much analysis happening in game. He's just a big brain, you know what I mean? And like, I'd like just the passes, the vision, the elegance. I'd be Riccardo, Kelifurier, just spend the whole day staring at myself in the mirror. You **** him, isn't it? Oh, you're beautiful. What makes this season feel like a success, then? Well, I'd like to keep betting in younger players. I'd like to keep that Hellend Academy going, because it's been, it's given us so much. Like, to see down and get some time, that'll be great. I mean, I'll be lying. The Champions League, the fact that we don't have a Champions League yet, is kind of astonishing. I just don't know how that's happened, but it's true. So I think we have to take care of that. It's very difficult to do, obviously. So I don't expect it, but that would be nice. That would be really nice. And just keep growing the home grunt out. I want the one that can't have, and it's driving me mad. You've got two sons and a daughter now, you've ensured that they have all become Arsenal fans, major part of their lives, as well, your wife, self-defenders and Arsenal fans. What's the lesson about life? You hope your kids have taken from what you know Arsenal, from what you know Tetis Arsenal. Defending champion now, attacking champion in Michele's words, endeavour fail, endeavour fail, endeavour fail, then succeed. Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, the, yeah, yeah, I guess that's it, right? Just never give up. I mean, you have to keep going, you have to keep trying. I mean, can you imagine, is that the end of the long season three? Was it three, was it three years in a row? Second, it was, right? So that's to be motivated on the fourth time to go and win it, is extraordinary. I mean, they're like psychoanalysts in that team who are just like helping them. They must be, right? They must be like some real, like, sport, sciencey people who are just like, here's the will to live again. Really? Give my rushes the psychoanalyst, I think, from the way they're, from the way they're operating. But yeah, I mean, it was literally that, they needed the will to live again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, how, because how do you just, how do you start? These seasons are long and arduous and full of injuries and exhaustion and travel and stuff. And so much more that we don't really understand that we can't understand, obviously, they're well compensated for this incredibly difficult high pressure job that they do, obviously, right? That's a given. But like, there is a lot of moving around and stress and challenge and stuff that you don't see. You don't see any of it. And to do it all again, the fourth time and get it on the fourth time of asking is unbelievable. Also, unbelievable. The uproaries in cinemas now make it part of your weekend. Unbelievable to speak to you and to hear this experience, to you, to your family, to your team and to shouting at the television, which ultimately is what it's all about. Thanks for having me, man. Good to see you. Courage.