๐ŸŽ™๏ธ Men in Blazers โ€ขAugust 4, 2026 โ€ขโฑ๏ธ 47 min

Will Mauricio Pochettino ACTUALLY Coach the USMNT in 2030? with Herc Gomez

1. Executive Overview: Core Theses & Key Revelations

The announcement from the United States Soccer Federation (USSF) confirming a contract extension for head coach Mauricio Pochettino through the 2030 FIFA World Cup cycle marks a seminal inflection point in North American football governance. Following a complex, emotion-laden 2026 World Cup campaign on home soilโ€”where initial group-stage optimism succumbed to a familiar Round of 16 exit against Belgiumโ€”the federation opted to double down on its marquee manager. The new agreement elevates Pochettino's compensation past his previous $6 million annual baseline, making him the highest-paid national team coach in American history. Importantly, the deal expands his mandate beyond touchline duties to encompass overarching technical oversight of the full national team pathway, youth coaching education, and professional league collaboration.

However, beneath the polished public relations rhetoric of being "committed to our future," an acute existential skepticism pervades the global analytics community. On a landmark episode of Men in Blazers, former United States Men's National Team (USMNT) forward and lead ESPN analyst Herc Gomez delivered a scathing reassessment of the federation's long-term strategy, assigning a meager 9 percent probability to Pochettino actually remaining in charge when the 2030 World Cup kicks off. Gomez's assertion exposes a deep-seated structural paradox: while US Soccer claims to be establishing a permanent tactical identity under an elite manager, the administrative reality indicates an institution operating from a posture of compromise, accommodating potential European club buyout clauses and prioritizing financial optics over immutable sporting alignment.

The central theses emerging from this analytical breakdown highlight four primary systemic vulnerabilities within the USMNT ecosystem:

  • Contractual Ambiguity and European Flight Risk: Pochettino's persistent, documented flirtation with Premier League and Serie A opportunities during his initial 20-month sprintโ€”including reported interviews with Brentford, AC Milan, and informal linkages to Real Madrid and Manchester Unitedโ€”suggests his long-term tenure is highly contingent on European market forces rather than international federation devotion.
  • The Administrative Vacuum in Technical Leadership: The departure of Technical Director Matt Crocker to Saudi Arabia on the eve of the 2026 World Cup re-exposed US Soccer's historic vulnerability: the absence of an empowered, permanent sporting director capable of orchestrating long-term technical infrastructure independent of executive board commerce.
  • Cultural Recalibration vs. Squad Friction: Pochettino successfully dismantled the culture of player entitlement that characterized the prior era, instilling tactical discipline and direct accountability. Yet, this authoritarian shift has generated friction with marquee figuresโ€”most notably Christian Pulisicโ€”and created uncertainty around squad integration.
  • The Ideological Deficit in Dual-National Recruitment: Pochettino's philosophical refusal to actively recruit dual-national prospects stands as a dangerous strategic blind spot in an increasingly globalized talent marketplace, directly risking the loss of elite players like Nathaniel Brown to competing federations.

To contextualize the evolution of the national team's operational framework across recent managerial epochs, the following analytical matrix breaks down the core structural parameters governing the program:

Operational Dimension Gregg Berhalter Era (2018โ€“2024) Pochettino 2026 Sprint (2024โ€“2026) Pochettino 2030 Mandate (2026โ€“2030)
Tactical Philosophy Strict positional play, low-tempo build-up, rigid system adherence. Pragmatic transition, aggressive verticality, intense physical counter-pressing. Hybrid multi-phase system with expanded roster depth and rotational flexibility.
Player Autonomy & Power High; player leadership councils consulted on major federation decisions. Low; top-down managerial control ("players don't need to understand, just execute"). Strict meritocracy; absolute tactical submission expected across all squad levels.
Recruitment Strategy Aggressive, active dual-national pitching and personal relationship building. Passive; expectation that players must independently initiate national commitment. Unchanged passive posture; high risk of losing top international prospects.
Contractual Alignment Full cycle alignment; domestic federation focus without club exit distractions. Short-term emergency sprint; frequent European club interest and media flirtation. Extended mandate with embedded exit flexibility; 9% estimated completion probability.
Technical Oversight Supervised by Technical Director Matt Crocker within structured hierarchy. Fragmented; Crocker departure left manager isolated prior to tournament. Expanded manager advisory role; persistent absence of independent Sporting Director.

2. Context & Background: The Landscape Leading to This Conversation

Understanding the gravity of the post-2026 reassessment requires examining the historical ceiling that has constrained American football for over two decades. Since the quarterfinal run at Korea/Japan 2002, the USMNT has succumbed to a persistent competitive plateau, exiting in the Round of 16 across five consecutive qualified World Cup finals. The home-hosted 2026 tournament was explicitly designed to shatter this glass ceiling. Armed with automatic qualification, Pot 1 group seeding, and an unprecedented financial windfall generated by North American commercial partnerships, US Soccer positioned the tournament as the definitive launchpad for the country's "Golden Generation."

The reality on the pitch proved far more nuanced. Inheriting a squad mid-cycle following the turbulent re-hiring and eventual dismissal of Gregg Berhalter, Mauricio Pochettino had a compressed 22-month window to institute his tactical blueprint. The initial phases of the 2026 World Cup provided tantalizing glimpses of what high-octane Pochettino football could achieve. Explosive, dominant first-half displays against Paraguay and Australia captured the public imagination, backed by high-capacity crowds in Seattle singing regional anthems as the nation rallied behind the team. Victories against Paraguay and Bosnia marked a historical statistical milestone, making Pochettino the first USMNT head coach in 96 years to secure back-to-back World Cup tournament wins.

Yet, the high-water mark proved fleeting. In the Round of 16, the USMNT ran directly into a tactically sophisticated Belgian side that dismantled the American defensive structure in a sobering defeat. The exit was compounded by physical breakdown, highlighted by talismanic winger Christian Pulisic limping off the pitch in the 59th minute after delivering a diminished tournament output of just 225 total minutes, one assist, and zero goals. The campaign ended not with a historic breakthrough, but with a stark reminder of the gap separating top-tier European tactical maturity from North American potential.

Simultaneously, administrative instability behind the scenes threatened federation continuity. On the eve of the tournament, US Soccer Technical Director Matt Crocker abruptly resigned to accept a lucrative executive position in Saudi Arabia. Crockerโ€™s departure left a gaping vacuum at the apex of the federation's sporting department. Rather than conducting an exhaustive global search for a dedicated sporting director to conduct an objective technical review, executive leadership elected to negotiate directly with Pochettino, granting him an unprecedented extension alongside broad advisory powers over coaching education and national team pathways. It is within this volatile intersection of commercial prosperity, pitch-level regression, and administrative vacuum that the Men in Blazers dialogue unfolded.

3. Deep-Dive Thematic Breakdown

3.1 The 9% Probability Paradox: Contractual Flirtation and European Exit Clauses

The centerpiece of Herc Gomez's critique lies in his stark probabilistic assessment: assigning a mere 9 percent chance that Mauricio Pochettino remains on the USMNT touchline when World Cup 2030 commences. For sports analytics professionals and prediction market traders, such a low evaluation for a newly extended head coach represents an extraordinary vote of no confidence in the contract's structural longevity. Gomez advised bettors to aggressively back the "No" prop option on any exchange offering long-term managerial futures, citing the overwhelming historical precedent of elite managers returning to European club football when top-tier vacancies emerge.

The root of this skepticism stems from Pochettino's behavior throughout his first 20 months in charge. Far from demonstrating total immersion in the American football development landscape, Pochettino repeatedly signaled a longing for the daily intensity of European club management. Off-the-record briefings provided to English journalists routinely highlighted his appetite for a Premier League return. Publicized interview processes for vacancies at Brentford and AC Milanโ€”the latter taking place virtually on the eve of the 2026 World Cupโ€”were never formally refuted by his camp. Furthermore, his name featured prominently on managerial shortlists for elite institutions such as Manchester United and Real Madrid.

Gomez argued that by agreeing to a contract extension that almost certainly contains lucrative exit mechanics or manageable buyout clauses for top European suitors, US Soccer effectively placed itself in a subordinate posture. In Gomezโ€™s blunt terminology, the federation allowed itself to be positioned in the "cut chair"โ€”a passive entity waiting to be discarded the moment a preferred European suitor materializes. If US Soccer was prioritizing pure sporting excellence for the 2030 cycle, it would have mandated an ironclad, non-negotiable commitment containing severe financial penalties for premature departure. By facilitating a flexible framework, the federation signaled that financial protection and brand association took precedence over absolute competitive stability.

3.2 Structural Dysfunction: The Decade-Long Technical Director Vacuum

During the episode, host Roger Bennett highlighted a message he published on social media nearly a decade ago following the termination of Jรผrgen Klinsmann: "US Soccer point when we should all be obsessed with is less coach who will be short term but technical director who shapes future for decades." Re-reading those words today delivers a sobering realization: in ten years, the fundamental structural vulnerability of American soccer governance has remained entirely unaddressed.

In modern elite footballโ€”whether at elite European clubs or top-tier South American federationsโ€”the sporting department operates with complex structural specialization. Technical directors, heads of recruitment, performance analysts, and academy liaisons form a persistent administrative bedrock consisting of 30 to 40 specialized professionals. This framework ensures that a clear tactical identity, player pipeline, and structural philosophy endure regardless of managerial turnover. The head coach functions as an operational asset within a broader institutional vision, rather than the sole architect of the nation's footballing destiny.

US Soccer, conversely, has historically allowed corporate business executives and CEOsโ€”individuals trained in commercial rights, sponsorship acquisition, and venue managementโ€”to execute pure sporting decisions. When Matt Crocker departed for Saudi Arabia, the federation lacked the internal footballing architecture to hold the senior team accountable or to construct a decoupled 10-year technical blueprint. By default, US Soccer handed the keys of youth development, coaching education, and domestic league collaboration to Pochettino himself. While Pochettino possesses elite tactical credentials, saddling a national team manager with macro-level institutional engineering while he simultaneously monitors Premier League vacancies represents a fundamental conflict of operational design.

3.3 Cultural Recalibration: Eradicating Entitlement and the Demise of Player Empowerment

One of the most consequential transformations executed by Pochettino during his initial tenure was the systematic dismantling of squad culture. Under the previous administration, the USMNT locker room operated under a model of heavy player empowerment. A formalized player leadership council was granted significant influence over operational parameters, culminating in senior players being directly consulted during the coaching search that ultimately brought Gregg Berhalter back for a second stint. Gomez characterized this era as one defined by softness, insulation, and unearned privilege, where star players operated with absolute positional security regardless of international form.

Pochettino executed a complete cultural recalibration. Operating under the firm principle that "players don't need to understand the decisions; they need to go with them," the Argentinian manager instituted an uncompromising meritocracy. Positional guarantees were abolished, media interactions were tightly controlled, and training ground standards were elevated to match European club demands. Pochettino demonstrated a willingness to engage in high-profile friction to establish authority, most notably telling team captain Christian Pulisic to focus on performance rather than federational ticket pricing or external tournament logistics during a public disagreement.

While this cultural reset successfully eliminated locker room complacency, it also exposed the delicate balance required when managing elite modern athletes. In traditional footballing capitals such as Buenos Aires or Madrid, a manager exiting in the World Cup Round of 16 after publicly promising semi-final appearances would face immediate termination. In the United States, however, the cultural reset is being lauded as a long-term foundation. The pivotal question moving into the 2030 cycle is whether Pochettino's demanding top-down style can maintain locker room cohesion when performance dips, or whether the friction will ignite systemic revolt among senior leaders.

3.4 Squad Re-Engineering: The Winners, Marginalized Figures, and Dual-National Crisis

The tactical and cultural shifts under Pochettino have catalyzed a dramatic re-ordering of the USMNT player hierarchy. As the program transitions toward the 2030 cycle, a clear divergence has emerged between squad members who thrived under Pochettino's intense physical demands and those whose international futures stand severely compromised.

The Primary Beneficiaries:

  • Folarin Balogun: The undisputed breakout star of the Pochettino era. Transformed into a complete, dynamic center-forward, Balogun delivered three goals during the 2026 World Cup while demonstrating elite press-trigger recognition and hold-up play. His evolution provides the USMNT with a legitimate world-class focal point around which the entire 2030 attacking structure can be engineered.
  • Malik Tillman: Advanced statistical evaluations reveal that Tillman performed as one of the most effective creative midfielders per 90 minutes across the entire 2026 World Cup tournament. Pochettino's vertical transition scheme unlocked Tillman's spatial awareness and line-breaking passing, solidifying his role as the team's primary central playmaker.
  • Alex Freeman: A direct discovery of Pochettino's talent identification process, Freeman emerged from domestic obscurity to claim the primary right-back slot, demonstrating exceptional physical recovery speed and wide crossing quality.
  • Sebastian Berhalter: Silenced widespread skepticism regarding his inclusion by delivering extraordinary work-rate, defensive coverage, and set-piece execution, proving his value as a reliable tactical tool during high-pressure tournament moments.

Marginalized Figures & Squad Risks:

  • Diego Luna: Luna's international standing has plummeted following public podcast appearances where he openly discussed potential national team switches to Mexico, coupled with documented concerns regarding physical conditioning upon joining international camps. Under Pochettino's strict behavioral standards, Luna faces an uphill battle to regain trust.
  • Yunus Musah: Once considered an indispensable component of the "MMA" midfield trio, Musah has stagnated due to limited club minutes at AC Milan and missed summer international windows. The emergence of tactical disciplined alternatives like Aiden Morris, Tanner Tessmann, and Sebastian Berhalter has pushed Musah to the periphery of the squad.

The Dual-National Recruitment Deficit:

Perhaps the most alarming strategic vulnerability highlighted by Gomez is Pochettino's ideological stance against active dual-national recruitment. Pochettino has publicly maintained that international players should possess an innate, unprompted desire to represent the United States, refusing to engage in persistent recruiting pitches. In a modern globalized landscape where multi-national athletes are aggressively courted by rival federations, this passive posture is disastrous. The USMNT has already witnessed defender Nathaniel Brown lock in his commitment to Germany, while elite uncommitted prospects like defender Noahkai Banks remain vulnerable to foreign acquisition. As Gomez emphasized, American soccer does not possess the talent density required to turn its back on active dual-national recruitment.

3.5 The Christian Pulisic Dilemma: Physical Fragility, Psychological Isolation, and Identity Shifts

No individual situation encapsulates the complexity of the USMNT's current inflection point more acutely than that of Christian Pulisic. At 27 years of age, Pulisic entered the 2026 World Cup at the theoretical peak of his physical career, boasting a club resume unmatched in American soccer history. Yet his tournament outputโ€”225 minutes across four matches, zero goals, one assist, and a 59th-minute injury departure against Belgiumโ€”underscored a troubling pattern of physical durability issues and emotional fatigue.

Gomez drew a compelling psychological parallel between Pulisic and former USMNT midfield maestro John O'Brien. O'Brien possessed rare technical gift and tactical intellect, yet his international career was truncated by chronic physical ailments and an internal sensitivity that eventually led him to retreat from professional football to pursue sports psychology. Pulisic exhibits similar traits: an extraordinarily gifted footballer who carries an overwhelming national burden, yet frequently appears psychologically exhausted by the ceaseless media scrutiny and federational pressure surrounding his status.

This dynamic was magnified by the release of the network documentary US vs. Them, which framed the national team's operational environment through a defensive, siege-mentality lens. Pulisic often appears isolated within this narrative structure, battling media expectations while maintaining a strained working relationship with Pochettino's demanding coaching staff. As the program builds toward 2030, Pochettino faces a delicate management challenge: he must determine whether Pulisic remains the core around which the national team identity revolves, or whether the tactical weight must be transferred to younger, more durable focal points like Balogun and Tillman while managing Pulisic's minutes to preserve his long-term health.

4. Speaker Perspectives & Analytical Contrast

The dialogue between host Roger Bennett and analyst Herc Gomez offered a masterclass in editorial tension, contrasting institutional idealism against cold, unvarnished footballing pragmatism. Bennett functioned as the passionate custodian of American soccer's macro-narrative, striving to balance rigorous critique with an appreciation for the emotional highs of a home World Cup. Gomez, drawing upon his experience in international locker rooms and media studios, served as the uncompromising realist refusing to allow federation marketing to obscure structural flaws.

While both speakers agreed on the urgent necessity of establishing a permanent Technical Director and praised the tactical breakthroughs of Balogun and Tillman, their analytical conclusions diverged sharply regarding federation governance and the realistic ceiling of the Pochettino era:

Debate Domain Roger Bennett (Institutional Reformist) Herc Gomez (Pragmatic Insider)
Managerial Commitment Acknowledges Pochettino's European flirtations but highlights historical back-to-back World Cup wins as evidence of progress worth building upon. Assigns a 9% probability to Pochettino reaching 2030; views contract flexibility as a sign of federational weakness and financial prioritization.
Federation Governance Focuses on the emotional disconnect caused by secret decision-making; demands an articulate public vision and transparent accountability metrics. Attacks the structural absence of a Sporting Director; condemns business executives making pure football decisions as "damning and sad."
Player Autonomy Recognizes the need for structural discipline while questioning if Pochettino's abrasive communication style alienates key assets like Pulisic. Fully endorses the eradication of player empowerment; views the former leadership council culture as soft, entitled, and counter-productive.
Dual-National Strategy Wants a unified national identity that naturally attracts global talent through inspirational program prestige. Demands relentless, active recruitment; asserts American soccer lacks the luxury of passive recruiting in a hyper-competitive global landscape.
2030 Competitive Ceiling Hopes for a magical transformation where elite youth talent yields a deep semi-final World Cup run on home or foreign soil. Expects significant growing pains and structural "lumps" during generational transition; defines success strictly as reaching the quarterfinals or better.

5. Strategic & Industry Implications

The implications of US Soccer's decision-making extend far beyond the immediate tactical setup of the senior men's national team. Industrially, the federation finds sits on an unprecedented financial surplus generated by the commercial success of the 2026 World Cup. However, the global football economy demonstrates with absolute consistency that capital reserves cannot compensate for a deficient sporting structure. Without a centralized technical philosophy connecting academy frameworks, domestic league development in Major League Soccer (MLS), and senior team selection, financial capital merely funds inefficient operational overhead.

Furthermore, the competitive landscape within CONCACAF and the wider Americas is shifting rapidly ahead of 2030. The resurgence of South American powerhouses such as Colombia, Ecuador, and Uruguayโ€”nations possessing deep talent density and tactical sophisticationโ€”means that home-hosted tournaments like the upcoming 2028 Copa Amรฉrica will present formidable hurdles. Concurrently, regional rivals Canada and Mexico are aggressively modernizing their sporting infrastructure. Canada's structural cohesion and Mexico's talent identification networks mean the USMNT's regional dominance is far from guaranteed.

The impending 2030 cycle also demands a complex generational transition. Core figures of the 2022 and 2026 cycles will reach their late twenties or early thirties, requiring Pochettino to integrate an emerging wave of technical talent. The integration of high-potential prospects such as Julian Hall, Cavan Sullivan, Xavier Gozo, and Mathis Albert will dictate the program's competitive trajectory. If Pochettino remains bound to a rigid managerial hierarchy while eschewing dual-national recruitment, the transition period will be fraught with performance volatility.

6. Looking Ahead: Unresolved Questions & Next Milestones

As American soccer embarks on this uncertain trajectory toward 2030, analysts and stakeholders must monitor specific operational benchmarks to evaluate the true stability of the national team program. The coming months will reveal whether Pochettino's contract extension represents a genuine long-term commitment or merely a convenient holding pattern prior to a European club return.

Key indicators and forthcoming milestones include:

  • European Coaching Carousels (Autumn 2026 โ€“ Spring 2027): The initial true test of Pochettino's commitment will occur during the European club season. Should major vacancies arise in the Premier League or Serie A, his public messaging and the federation's contractual enforcement will determine if the 9 percent exit probability materializes.
  • Appointment of a Permanent Sporting Director: US Soccer's most urgent institutional task is recruiting a world-class Sporting Director with absolute authority over the federation's footballing blueprint. This individual must possess the authority to oversee national team pathways and hold the senior head coach accountable to institutional standards.
  • Roster Selection for the CONCACAF Nations League and Gold Cup: Pochettino's roster construction for upcoming regional competitions will indicate whether he is committed to active squad depth building or relying exclusively on a trusted core of veterans.
  • Recruitment Signals on Top Dual Nationals: Any structural shift in how US Soccer engages uncommitted multi-national talentsโ€”such as Noahkai Banksโ€”will serve as a key metric evaluating whether Pochettino's passive recruitment philosophy can adapt to competitive reality.

Ultimately, the post-2026 era presents US Soccer with a stark choice: settle for commercial prosperity and managerial prestige, or build the rigorous, decoupled sporting infrastructure required to consistently compete among the elite nations of world football. Until structural reform replaces institutional passivity, the 2030 horizon will remain defined by high financial expenditure and persistent competitive vulnerability.

๐Ÿ’ฌ Key Quotes & Speaker Breakdown

USMNT manager future

"I would give it a 9% chance that [Pochettino] is actually still our manager when the US national team kicks off World Cup 2030. I am not very optimistic."

โ€” Herc Gomez

"If I were a betting man, I would run to any prediction market and hammer the 'no' on the 2030, 'will Mauricio Pochettino be there for the World Cup' prop bet."

โ€” Herc Gomez

USMNT management

"I wouldn't put a coach in place if I didn't think he was going to be there at the end. Too much time has gone by, and that's a problem for another broken cycle."

โ€” Herc Gomez

Transfer rumors/Contract clauses

"I didn't imagine there's some sort of clause that would allow Mauricio Pochettino to leave if a European club suitor came knocking."

โ€” Herc Gomez

USMNT culture

"The players were empowered to an extent where they felt they made decisions. Hell, they were consulted on the US men's national coaching job and they brought Greg Berhalter back."

โ€” Herc Gomez

Dual national recruitment

"The US men's national team does not have the luxury of turning its back on recruitment when it comes to dual nationals. The world has changed."

โ€” Herc Gomez

US Soccer management

"If you're US Soccer, my only qualm with this is you want somebody there for 2030, and if there's any chance of losing them, you're not doing your job correctly."

โ€” Herc Gomez

"You're already putting in an insurance policy when there shouldn't be one. This should be a Pochettino 2030 all the way and that's all we should be hearing."

โ€” Herc Gomez

USMNT player pool

"Over 70 players in the calendar of the year saw a call up with the US men's national team. That's what it took for him to find the starting 11 to beat Paraguay."

โ€” Herc Gomez

USMNT manager candidates

"Pellegrino Matarazzo is a man that I would love to be in charge. He's a guy that I think knows the American athlete, the American player, and has fresh ideas."

โ€” Herc Gomez
๐Ÿ“œ View Full Episode Verbatim Transcript 48,459 characters
It's Rodge, here to sing my praise for a very special new balance football boot, the 4-4-2. It's no nonsense. Workhorse midfielders and defenders don't want you to do the dirty work, but it also ping-a-passed the perfection. It's a classic boot design with modern enhancements, with an ultra lightweight sole. Synthetic microfiber material retains a soft premium in-hand feel, allowing for the lighter weight, the superior touch on the ball. Get a pair for yourself, or the footballer in your family and newbalance.com slash soccer. You're listening to the Men in Blazers media network, suboptimal radio. I wouldn't put a coach in place why I didn't think was going to be there at the end. Too much time has gone by, and that's a problem. Mauritio Pochettino is back as US manager, the Argentinian women obsession for Kurt Russell hyped speeches in the movie, Miracle, and the unique take and dictator cool sideline, Garb. It's just announced he's resided contract until 2030, and the responses have been fascinating to emotionally complex, a lot of new fans excited by the swaggery country roads inflected first due games of the World Cup. Oh, Mallyt Tillman bangers in their imagination are very excited. There's also a lot of. Why? When we went out at the round of 16 again, why are we giving a second chance? Even plenty of, at least it's not a player's dad again, that's a real comment on our Instagram. And also, oh, yeah, well, there's no one else out there, which kind of tells us where we really are. In these moments, the emotional, often outstrips irrational, that's what football empowers. So this show is going to touch on both to break down this moment. It's a joy to welcome back. A gentleman who tells it like it is, former US men's national team striker, turned the SPM pundit, hosted Jule Nats on VAMOS, on the Men in Blazers media network. It's Mr. Hurt Gomez. Right. What's going on brother? How you doing? Good to see you. It's great to see you fresh back from vacation, very kind of US socket to hold the news for your first day back. But the Guardian's reporting, not only is poached back, but he will have a raise on top of the $6 million per year he earned under his previous deal with the US Soccer Federation. We're ready. Lodge Soundlay ever for US head coach. There was language in the press release. They'll also now advise and support US Soccer on the broad development of the full national team pathway. You soccer, coaching education, professional league collaboration and other technical facets across the soccer community. We'll have to wait to understand exactly what that means. But first question first, poached signed on until 2030, aka the next World Cup cycle. US Soccer tweeted out the news with a bold committed to our future. And the big question is, for how long? What percentage chance do you think that when the US national team kick off World Cup 2030, poached is actually still our management? Oh, I would give it a 9% chance that actually happens. I am not very optimistic. Listen, I said it earlier to you and I'll say it again to the public knows, if I were a betting man, I would run to any prediction market and hammer the no on the 2030, will Marisa Pocetino be there for the World Cup prop bet? I don't see it happening. Too many things have to go favorably well for Marisa Pocetino and favorably well for US Soccer because this is not just a Pocetino needs to secure titles type of deal. It needs to do well recruitment type of deal. He also needs or US Soccer needs for him not to be persuaded by a club team to leave. I didn't imagine there's some sort of clause that would allow Marisa Pocetino to leave if a European club suitor came knocking 9%. 9%. What percentage just for control group do you have of Russell Crowe himself being on the side line for the US at the 2030 World Cup? 3% because and I'm only giving it a 3% because there's been an influx of celebrities rule soccer when it comes to the United States men's national team. Every chance the world feed got we were seeing celebrities at the game. So there's a there's an off chance it could be Pocetino replaced by a Russell Crowe figure next cycle. Russell Crowe is now just Pocetino stunned double. Look, I'll admit first up, I like Pocet a lot as a human being. Still revered when he did his manager of Tottenham borderline alchemy, but that was a long time ago. And I want to use his time to get serious about this moment. I can see a pathway to this being a magical moment for the United States. I can also see it being a pathway there where this is a damn damn squib. Oh, Pocch spent a lot of the first 22 months who was US manager making very clear how much he missed European club management. Brief groups of English journalists off the record a number of times how much he'd long to be back running football at a club in England reports the interview for the Brentford job will not denied. Newsy interviewed for the AC Milan role, which he didn't get on the eve of the World Cup was confirmed. So this would negotiation, I'll be honest. I've not seen a national team management process like this one managers are either fired right after World Cup or they resign or they say how much they love the project how much they want to be back. I've never seen the likes of let's take a couple of weeks. Let's decide after that kind of before I'm free car during a World Cup. He called that and I hate this, but it sums it up. Well, he he said essentially was like putting US soccer in the cut chair makes me cringe. Oh, wow. I know when he says that. But all of these things they didn't really suggest this is a gently which completely and utterly committed to the US build obsessed with our program, which I'll say it's a US fan. That's hard to take. It's kind of more spanked off. Heck, I'm going to explore my options and then I'm going to decide and you do have to ask is you've hinted is this going to now happen every time a big job in the Premier League becomes open during the season? That's a good and bad thing about having somebody who's actually wanted right that people want them clubs are going to want them and he wants the flirtation back, Raj. This is not a personal opinion. This is what we've seen happen in the 20 months, 20 months. Think about it. 20 months, not a four-year cycle of money support, you know, where he loves to flirt and he loves to tell the US public and the US press one thing and he loves to tell the foreign press another. So it's good to be wanted and what he support, you know, has suitors. He's coach PSG. He's coach Chelsea. He's coach Spurs. Most recently, he was an shortlist for United. He was an shortlist for Brentford and Ramadred. His name surfaced. It wasn't Ramadred admitting that he was a candidate, but his name surfaced. So if you're a US soccer, my only qualm with this, and there's a few, is you want somebody there for 2030, Roger? And if there's any chance of losing them, if there's any chance you know that's a strong possibility, you're not doing your job correctly. US soccer just hosted the most lucrative world cup in the history of world cups. The surplus for this world cup for US soccer is going to be astronomical. You don't need the money. So what you're doing right now, if you allow this class to exist, is you're prioritizing the financial over the sporting because prioritizing the sporting would be, we want somebody who's going to be here, no matter what, it's not an option for you to leave. Yeah, I mean, I've got to say, from a US soccer perspective, number one, we'll get into this a little deeper. Said after they crashed out in the round 16 again, for what is it? It's the the last five world cups we've actually qualified for that we need a really long term vision. And I'll tell more about that, but but here we are. Pogetino has decided his best option is to stay. And with US soccer having their technical director, Matt Crocker, Bail Fasaud, Arabia, ahead of the world cup tournament, there's not only the football brain in place to lead a search, it's almost as if both sides have agreed to saddle up in the style of possession, becomes 910 to the law. And I want to dive into this by building the most positive case possible to begin with her. Listen to me here for a second. You could say, first of all, poached and even get a four year cycle, 2022 to 26. He inherited a culture from Greg Berholter that was one of softness, that was one of privilege of overindulgence. He had to change it. He only had 22 months to do that. He kept telling us, trust the process. And there was a noticeable surge. World Cup proper. We had that glorious first 45 minutes against Paraguay. We had that incredible first 45 minutes against Australia. We had the country road singing in Seattle. The nation rising up behind this team. Tenacious win against Bosnia. Pogetino first manager in 96 years to win back to back world cup games for the United States men. Man is already one more world cup games than any other men's US manager, which is remarkable. Essentially, it felt so good until it didn't. And we call not the guy that gave me a full cycle under his belt. Hurt, do you agree with any of this? I agree with a lot of it. Listen, the players were empowered to an extent where they felt they made decisions. Hell, Raj, they were consulted on the US men's national coaching job and they brought Greg Berhalter back. They decided what they want to do. The culture change that Pogetino brought here within the team. I am four. He once said the players don't need to understand the decisions. You know, they need to go with it. That's fine. I am here for that. And he wanted to stretch not only a cultural change within the team that I think was necessary, but within US soccer in general within the population within the game in this country. But the reality is, Raj, if this was a proper culture like he would have wanted, if he tells a president of Argentina, they are winning the world cup and they go out in the round of 16, he's gone. If he tells the network that's airing their games before the late up to a world cup, they will be here this summer and they're going to be in a semi-final game in this stadium and then proceed to eat five goals. He's gone that same day. If he tells them Argentina or Spain to believe, why not us and goes out in the round of 16 by four goals, we're not having this discussion. First time in the US men's national teams history, they lose a nation's league. He gets in a public fight. I'll be it. We could back him if we want with his best player in Christian policy. He tells one of his marquee players to shut up and dribble. Don't worry about ticket prices. Trust FIFA, he said. So there's a lot of water under his bridge, but he did do a lot of good things. I like to play for the US men's national team. It came 20 months later when we finally saw the starting lineup. Over 70 players in the calendar of the year saw a call up with the US men's national team. That's what it took for him to find the starting 11 to beat Paraguay. I thought this was a very good stingy defensive Paraguay team that when they beat him and everyone was saying it's just Paraguay. I was like, no, they made Paraguay look bad. This is a decent Paraguay team. They made them look bad, but it's an expanded tournament. It's a home world cup. You're a pot one team. You're never going to get this moment in time back, Raj, to be a pot one team, the best team in your group against lesser opposition with your golden generation and you bowed out in that fashion. But second cycle, it is. And second cycle is our moments of transformation. But second cycle is our moment where you have to identify new talents, say farewell to some hard-written starters who age out of the program. It is a reset and thus it will begin. And to be clear, second cycle is a normally given after a real sense of progress has been shown. Crazy thing about this is that the Pocciatino era before the World Cup was always great. You know, the 10 straight losses continued that run to European opposition, which was befuddling. And the truth is, steady diet of friendlies has made it so hard to judge how strong it was. But somebody wrote today about second cycle curses in U.S. soccer. But Brutarina got a second cycle after the quarterfinals in 2002. It was a disaster. But Bradley lasted just a year after his 2010 journey. Klinzmann's 2014 led to him being fired after the team just disintegrated into shambles. Greg Buholter, we all live that. I'm going to break down the challenges we face as a program in the moment. But Huck, what would you say to all the fans who are like, I'm so pumped, Poccius back. The Greg Buholter rehire was an agony. Policic has faltered. The players need a hard talking to. We still need this culture change. Pocci is the one to do it. He's the best thing we've got going on about the program right now. What do you say? Great. That's awesome. Will he be there for 2030 to lead you into that world cup? If he is, hey, all for it. I love the culture change. I love the players being held accountable. Marisa Pocciutino was an American sweetheart for 50 million Americans. They saw the players as the problem. They saw this foreign coach as one of the saviors who would lead the U.S. into the promised land. That's great. They didn't see the 20 months. I put out a tweet and it was no trophy halls in the nation's league or in the goal cup where they won with a CT at one point. Oh, and two versus Mexico. They're rival and they flamed out against Belgium. That's not an opinion rush. That's not my opinion. Those are things that happened. Here's my opinion. Marisa Pocciutino, if you guarantee them till 2030, there could be a lot of process made because we saw things change stylistically on the field and let us to believe maybe something could happen. Maybe in a very complicated landscape where Canada is no longer the Canada of old and Mexico. For the first time in a long time, things are looking up for them and now Rafa Marquez is leading a new generation and you're transitioning your transitioning stars. It's now a generational change for the U.S. men's national team and you already saw what happened in the 2018 Burhulture era. You waited 13 months. Dave Serican was a caretaker for the U.S. men's national team. You waited for Greg Berholtz to finish coaching the Columbus crew. 2022 World Cup saga, the Berholtz, the Reinas, U.S. soccer, whatever the case may be. You lost more time. There was Anthony Hudson, BJ Callahan. You've lost so much time. Can JT batson guarantee that Pocciutino would be there in 2030? JT batson, the U.S. soccer president. And he's the man responsible here. He's the guy I'm going to hold accountable. This is a sporting decision. The only way this can be a success sporting wise is if Maricio Pocciutino is there in 2030. If not right now, you're only going to feed into the narrative that the wheels are already in motion and the U23 coach Steve Chirundelo is going to take over if and when Maricio Pocciutino leaves. He will be the U.S. men's national team coach. You're already putting in an insurance policy when there shouldn't be one. This should be a Pocciutino 2030 all the way and that's always should be hearing. I don't want to hear about release classes or buy out classes, Raj. How much more money does U.S. soccer need? I love Chirundelo and I don't care who knows it. You're kind of hinting that without Matt Crocker, the director of football, we actually don't know who's making the footballing decisions right now within the nation. But the question for me is am I surprised and the answer is I honestly think Pocciutino probably is because you signal to many around him ahead of this tournament that he was not going to be around afterwards. The context is it Premier League teams are currently looking for young tactical brains. We're seeing that up and down the league. Essentially what Pocciutino was when he broke through, not what he is now. So this is where we are. He's won a mandate to fix the things which continue to be devil a program over the last two years that he's working on. That's a work in progress. I said up top 2030 you've already agreed. It doesn't mean you'll be there until then. His competitive games are going to be within Konkikaf. There'll be two goal cups, two nations leagues. There'll be World Cup qualifying starting in 2027. Please, God, fingers crossed, there'll be a 2028 Copa, America in this nation could be back in the United States. If that happens, I believe the performance at that Copa would ultimately be definitive. But we've got to fix the goalkeeper position, the bat line. We're going to find new talent to build the depth around Tillman and Floyd Balican. I think the ultimate agony of 2026, the World Cup journey for me, was that the things that ultimately came to undo us in that Belgium game, the mental inferiority against a middling European opponent, the goalkeeping, the commitment to Tim Rim at center back. We're all things that have been, let's just say question marks for months going into this tournament. And in response to all of them, Pocciut just pushed the press away and just kept telling us how to use this language to trust the process. There's no other sporting culture in this game in the world where a coach has allowed to say trust the process and the media and the fans don't hold them accountable. I repeat, he would have not gotten to the World Cup if this was a proper footballing culture that he would like. Now, Raj, we could sit here and say World Cup merits a second cycle because of the play. But this was already put into motion before the ball kicked off in the World Cup. We were already hearing about talks for a resigning of Mauricio Pocciutino before you even knew what the product was going to be like on the field. It goes to show you the thought process of those who are in decision making positions right now with US soccer. Mauricio Pocciutino is going to be there for 2030. Let him work. But if more time is being lost, this is going to be the second generation of footballers in a generational change with a competitive atmosphere within CONCACAF with Canada, with Mexico, with Panama, with the re-emerges of Costa Rica who didn't even make the last World Cup where you could be in real trouble. And it's not just within CONCACAF because you're at the point where you reset the market on both the men's and women's side. And the women's side, we see what's gotten there. We see what resetting the market has gotten you back to prominence. On the men's side, you had private equity come in and it's paying this man's salary, private equity. It's paying this man's salary. And you don't think they're going to want to see results outside of CONCACAF if you are invited or were to host a Copa America. What's the level? And when you get to the World Cup in 2030, what is the bar? Because it's very easy to tell the president of the United States, we're going to win the World Cup and then go on foreign TV in Spain, Chiringuito, El Capacito. And then when they ask you about winning the World Cup, say, wow, I don't kick a soccer ball. I don't score goals nor do I defend them. That's not what you told the president of the United States. So it's very easy to say one thing and mean another. Can I say, if I was poached to be honest, I would have thought long and hard about whether my standing was ever going to get better than it is right now in the United States after this summer with the massive crowds, you know, cheering for the team, especially in Seattle. God bless to all your fans and see how we did the Lord's work. We are going to go back to half full stadium. The ones that irritated him so much, the ones who were packed with opposing CONCACAF fans. Actually, if you get this far, the qualifying for the World Cup first time tough on the road CONCACAF battles, but no managers enjoyed. He's not had to face that singular footballing challenge before. It's going to be fascinating, but quick question for you because there's a lot of this too amongst the fan base. Is there anyone better? You know, many US fans had delusions to be honest. The Pep Guardiola swooping in. We've lived through, you know, a month of people to throw the checkbook at PEP. PEP is not coming, but is there anyone realistic better? Yeah, there could be a few realistically better. Pellegrino Matarazzo is a man that I would love to be in charge. And I think it's a guy that if you say he's here till 2030, I believe he's here till 2030. You know, he's a guy that I think knows the American athlete, the American player has fresh ideas that could be of worth. New Jersey ball now of rail so should add just one that Spanish cup come on the show right before the World Cup. I asked him about US soccer and whether he'd be interested in the job, thinking he'd say no for me now club football. And he was like, yeah, I am interested. Yeah. And he's a guy with fresh ideas, but still a realistic approach on what he has at his disposal. When he was in the Bundesliga and he was coaching teams like Huffenheim, he didn't try to play a proactive type of football. He tried to say, hey, our mission here is to stay afloat. We got to be pragmatic. We got to defend. And within that pragmatic defensive approach, did good things. Ghost associate that and realizes, hey, this roster allows me to play a different way. He beat a clinical Madrid in a couple of great final. You know, they had a string of like 12 12 straight games without a defeat or one defeat only. And that one defeat was a Ramadrid, you know, when he played an alternate squad because he had back to back games midweek games with the Copa. So this is a guy that I think it offers something fresh, but it doesn't have to be. And this is what people don't understand. It doesn't have to be. Well, provide a different name. You think that's what they said to Spain when Listo La Fuente came up from the U20s or Lino Escaloni and Argentina when he came up from the U20s. It doesn't have to be that. You just have to have a plan in place, Roger. And this to me is is why it gets frustrating because it seems like if there is a plan in place and you're seeing what Maree Supotrichino is doing and you're liking it and you're saying, Hey, I like this style of play. Don't make the U23 coach Steve Chirundolo because if you saw what his team was in LAFC, it was not proactive. It was not front foot. It was not progressive play. It was pragmatic, transitional. It was based on athleticism. And maybe you can make an argument for that's what the US should be. That's not what we're seeing here. We're seeing that the US played a different brand. So there doesn't seem to be a place in plan or, you know, just something where it makes you feel good about what's going to happen in the future. But Chirundolo, and I want people to understand this. I want people to really understand this. It's not my opinion. The stats that I stated, those are stats. The trophy hall are actual things happening. My opinion is I wouldn't put a coach in place. Why didn't think was going to be there at the end. Too much time has gone by. And that's a problem for another broken cycle. By the way, I couldn't agree more with you about. And I said this the moment that the US were just outclassed and dumped by Belgium, that vision, that vision, that plan, that big, you know, idea for US football. You can't just delegate that and say, we'll just let poach define it. And I couldn't agree more with you about, I mean, we are obsessed with big managers leading us as if it's a magical fix. England were with two goals. We're not alone. Brazil with Carlo and Chilotti. We've seen the trend in this World Cup. Is the international footballs a strange beast? You mentioned them. Linus Galoni won the last World Cup as Argentina manager. Luis Delafuente won this World Cup as Spain manager. The former never managed a club side. The latter had I think in the 11 game spell with third tier Alivez 15 years. It gave them the last time. You know, in touch of all this different. I'm going to play a very quick game with you. Hey, I'm going to name a manager. You tell me if they you would have had them as better or worse high as them poach for this cycle. You ready for this one? Sure. Steve Turendley. Worse, because he's unproven. And I don't think the style suits this USman's national team right now. You know what? I don't know what the style of this USman's national team is going to be because we don't know what the player pool is going to be. There's been 70 plus players in 2025 that played under them. Under Puchetino, those players, a lot of them are going to be transitioned out. There's a new generation coming through. What's that generation going to look like? Jim Curtin. Well, no, worse. Garaselka. I'd say very similar. I'm contractually obliged to say the words Jesse Marsh. No. No. Listen, it made my job a hell of a lot easier if Jesse Marsh was a coach. He'd give us plenty to talk about. But I think that boat has sailed. I love Jesse Marsh. DJ Kellan. I can't sit here and tell you that it's a terrible idea. It's just not a great idea. It's an idea that when I saw coming to play, I'm like, hey, this doesn't look so bad. But where those players who were influential during his time will be, I say no. Oh, I think he's the scaloney of an American football. New Jersey's Pelicino Matarazzi. Love it. I really do like it. There's a, if you're already complex amongst Americans, and they think that anything that is foreign is better than American. And they think that they need this foreign coach to come in and save American soccer. Pelicino is a guy who's done his time. He's not some Joe Shmo off the street. He knows what it's like to be in top quality setups in the Bundesliga. In La Liga, he's well respected. He's got fresh ideas. He's shown a penchant for playing different styles and getting results under those styles. And he wants to be here. This is another thing, Raj. You mentioned it. Who is making the decision? And what decision did you just make with Pochettino? Because you're essentially given to what they've said, he will have a larger role in the development of American soccer. That means coaching, methodology, infrastructure. You're giving keys to somebody who necessarily won't be there at the end. That could be detrimental. I want to get back to that in a minute. But I've got to carry on with this beauty. But if you want to hear more from Pelicino Matarazzi, put the link to this in the show notes. Came on our show right before the World Cup. I was blown away by his intellect, his empathy. Super, super, super wonderful man. Next one, Teryon Reed. Teryon Reed is a guy that I think has good ideas. Remains to be seen if he could put him to practice. When you have the French U23 team in a home Olympics, they kind of play by themselves. And listen, they lost two. They lost two in the final, which is Spain, which was running things. But I'd love to see what he's all about in a setting like with the US men's national because he's got such a large persona within America, within the United States. Part of me thinks that could be a show from being honest. Bruce Serena. No. Bruce Serena and Bruce Serena's imagination. No, listen, I love guys like I love guys like Bruce from what they've done for for US soccer. And I loved his show with Bob Bradley and Greg Brahalter that he were doing in the Rob Stone. I found it very refreshing. But in seeing and hearing his ideas about the game, it's refreshing in terms of the old school American mentality. But I don't think it's refreshing in new ideas and where you think this nation can go. God bless. In five years time, I hope we're saying Michael Bradley in this list. Last one for you. Emma Hayes. Can I be honest? I've been blown away with her punditry. Emma Hayes comes in and she restructures, reinvents the women's national team. There's new faces integrated into the game. There's immediate relevancy within 40 days. She's turned a program around and she's winning Olympic gold. There's something to be said about understanding the weight and expectations and executing that. And then I hear her talk about football. I hear talk about the game. And it's so refreshing. And I'm blown away. And I say this in the most respectful way. I apologize. I wasn't aware of your game. I gotta say I also love the way she talks about her love of America. That is where I'll say. But to me right now, all of this is irrelevant. Everything now depends upon where it took. Putsch is he now. Again, his career was magic. Her Tottenham then derailed with two, I'd say very bad choices. PSG out there. Most political. And then Chelsea. And it's most political. And he was spat out quickly at both. But it spurs what he did, building that young culture of confidence and belief. Can he deal with us? I believe he can. But the one thing I'd say in this moment, herk, is by recommitting. He's kind of truly recommit. You know, when he first arrived, he was said he was about to move to the United States and live in Atlanta. He never did. I don't think he has to. I don't care where he lives. But it did very much feel like he was overseeing things from afar. He's going to attack this role with a passion and an intensity. We need poch to speak with some clarity about why he's staying and what he's building. You know, with some detail, he has to engage and respect the media. It was actually hard to watch at times away. He both Heisman them and was allowed to Heisman them because there's no, you know, as you said, there's no outrage. No one's really watching. I was surprised how literally embraced the vast Spanish language audience. I'll be honest, that he's so well primed to speak to. Now, that is something such an opportunity for US soccer in general. The other element I'll talk more about this because I think it's very, very important is to have a serious dual national recruitment strategy. But big picture, this talent overhaul. This is what we need. Timry, gone. Christian, policy, Chris Richards, Western McKinney, Tyler Adams. It will be all in their early 30s in 2030. This is a moment in which a men's team can either build. God, I really believe it can. Or it can also sink back into the shadows. There's American football, the popularity surges, but so many fans are actually connecting to the bigger clubs like Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid and Liverpool than they do to the national team. This is the critical nature at this moment, Herc. It can't just be continuing with the energy and the communication and the vision level that came in that first half cycle. I can't, there needs to be actual growth. Listen, 1994 was up into that moment, the most successful financial world cup in the history of world cups and has spawned a domestic soccer league in 1996. Major league soccer was born. This has to take it to the next level. This league is now over 30 years of age. These players now are in some major platforms where only four of the 11 starters who started the world cup actually had clubs. They weren't just employees of the federation. There is seriousness to this team now, but they've not done anything that any generation before them hasn't done in a home world cup with this golden generation. So there needs to be more because 2030 will be more difficult. Yes, you're probably coasted through qualifying because of the amount of teams that qualify six and probably seven. Probably more. We're probably talking about seven and a half spots that we're being honest. There's going to be an expanded world cup come 2030. It's going to be in six different countries, three different continents. Who knows what this qualification process will look like. Who knows what kind of bumps you're going to take through it all and who knows what players are going to emerge and need to emerge because you've mentioned the team reams. He's going to be 40. You're going to have to phase him out. So you're talking about a back line who you may have to phase out two of those players out of the four of starting goalkeeper that you're not too sure about. You're talking about prime players that you now have serious doubts about what you're going to be like heading into their 30s, both because of injury prone and mental status where their heads going to be at with this national team. There's a lot of question marks here. I do want to touch upon dual national strategy because I think it's really critical. I actually think potch misunderstood it when he said in the last cycle, this is his quote. We don't need to convince players. A player needs to want to play for the national team. I'm Argentinian. I wanted to play for Argentina. It's not because of a contract. It's not because of possibility to play in Europe. No, I was desperate to defend my badge, my flag. We need to be careful. There's no need to convince a player. I actually think that very much is a lot of convincing that's needed speaking to the past managers, the convincing. You think Jesse Marsh go actively about it in the Canadian job right now, convincing, selling, engaging, making the case. That's what got flubilic in here. Argentina is just, it's not alike and alike comparing the two as ridiculous. They have so much talent. The players from the very early days dream of playing for Argentina, modernly do, are playing in a club level. But you look at the likes of Morocco. You look at the likes of even Cape Verde, you know, propelled by dual nationals Mexico now. You know, number of the stars that last will cut, born elsewhere. Savvy, recruitment, altars, the narrative of teams turned good ones into great ones. We got the likes of 19 year old defender, Noah Kai Banks, German mother, American father, playing in the Bundesliga and we chase 22 year defender, born in Japan to a Japanese mum, American father of Jamaican descent and more. Many of you listeners will know just an expanded list. We dream of many of these dual nationals hurt. But the seriousness of which potch attacks the dual nationals opportunity, I think it's going to define this next cycle. It is hard work. The dual national recruitment, it takes, selling, it takes relationship building, it takes growing, will determine everything else in the wake of it. Talent really is the key to this next phase, right? I could not agree with you more. The US men's nation does not have the luxury of turning this back to recruitment when it comes to dual nationals. You mentioned Mexico, the world is changing. Mexico had one less player born abroad than the US men's national team. And the US men's national team had two players that their fathers were US men's national team players and they were born in different countries. They had one less player born abroad. The world has changed. France had over 90 players in this 2026 world cup. There's only 26 players on a roster. They did not play for France. Morocco has reinvented itself as a federation on the men's and women's side and all categories because of recruitment. That is part of the globalization of the world. It's not just recruitment. It's a globalization of the world we live in and you have to embrace that. You really do. And Marisa Pochettino, US men's national team, it's very romantic to think you don't have to go out and chase these players. They should want to play for you. The United States of America is a soccer country. It's not a US men's national team country and it's not an MLS country but it's a soccer country. There are fans who cheer for other national teams in this country, other leagues in this country, other clubs in this country. You need to convert those people. You need to convert these players. You need to recruit. I want to close with some quick fun stuff in just a second but I do want to say someone just this morning sent back to me a tweet that I dispatched into the world November 22nd 2016. That was the day after Eurick and Clinton was fired and a tweet and I think Twitter still had a very tight number of words you could use because this is pretty clumsily written but I wrote US soccer. A point when we should all be obsessed with is less coach who will be short term but technical director who shapes future for decades. This was nearly 10 years ago. Reading it today it shocks me because it's still true with never. I mean think about how sad that is Raj. That was 10 years ago and you can go back in time before that. It was Sunil Galati calling the shots. There was no technical director, no sporting director, nobody with a vision. Now go ahead and look at any given club or national team and look at the amount of people who work within a coaching crew, a technical crew. It's something like 30-40 people and they all have specialized roles. This is no different now with a sporting director. You can't be CEO and make sporting decisions. There has to be somebody specialized for this decision. They have to hold accountability with these decisions. You don't have that in US soccer right now. It was like this 10 years ago and it's like this today. It's like this today and that's that's not only sad, that's damning to where you're going to go. If you're leaving business people to start out sporting structure, you're in trouble. Well I mean I will but say this again, we need a vision like an articulate vision, an intelligent vision, we can all understand the measure against. By the way we should welcome that measuring. We should welcome accountability. Accountability. At the end of the day it's just a symbol of a rise of people caring. We all want that. You can't pick and choose when you want people to care. This is what pains me the most when US soccer allows the decision making to slink back into the shadows. That's when everything feels really small again in this nation because football is bigger and bigger than ever. But the national team can become voluntarily irrelevant in moments. We've got to change that. We've got to act big, think big, envision big, but make that vision so clear. But I want to end with some quick fires. Are you ready for this? Okay. Let's go. Can you name three players that this news, potry signing is good news for? Yeah. One would be Alex Freeman. I'll start at the back. I think the emergence of Alex Freeman has been incredible. And that's a direct pochettino find. I made this player and he flourished under my system. The second one would be Malik Tillman. Malik Tillman was one of the best midfielder's not just the US men's national team, but in this world cup per 90 minutes played not my opinion. Those are statistics. Look at those statistics. He did himself a world of wonder. And then the last one was very close between Sebastian Berhalter. And I think Sebastian Berhalter, what he did, there are a lot of people who didn't like what he did because of the league he played in, but I think he shut those people up. He had himself a very good world cup, but I'm not going to go with Berhalter. I'm going to go with Faller and Balligan. It was Marisa Pochettino who made this kid explode in a big way. In a way where he could get a massive transfer this cup coming window. He scores three goals. He's one of the most dangerous players within the realm of conca-caf. He really took a step forward with Marisa Pochettino. And you said something interesting earlier about building around a Faller and Balligan. I could not agree more. I could not agree more. Good age, a prime suspect to be around for a while can play in different ways regardless if you want to be possession based or if you want to be transitional or if you want to press, he could do a lot of different things for you. And he's got a goalscorer's touch. I have the exact same three. Tillman, Balligan, Alex Freeman. I love the the said Berhalter show without I think when you look at that Belgian game, you look who was fighting till the very end. I will never forget just a hustle. Isn't that sad, Raj? That's our silver lining. He looked like he cared. That's what it is. I mean, I will not forget that. That was true. I'm watching him in the middle of this season. I also had on my dance called Timry. He's coming back. He's never going to leave. Three players. Portraterno resigning is bad news for well, I think the first one is Diego Luna and Diego Luna has done himself. No favors goes on this with his friends or these YouTubers and starts talking about switching over to Mexico and then comes in and what you can see him looks kind of out of shape. You know, not really the same Diego Luna. A lot of water under that bridge. That could be maybe too much for Diego Luna to kind of salvage if it is Marichu Portraterno who's there for the long haul 2030. The second one is going to be Eunice Musa. Eunice Musa is a kid who I think kind of got the short into the stick because he did nothing that Christian policy didn't do except he's not Christian policy. During the gold cup when he didn't show up. When he didn't show up in the gold cup, when he showed up for the summer friendlies and the teams kind of advanced without him. And he's in a club situation right now where he's going to go back to Milan and it's a crowd of midfields who knows what it's going to be like for him. And there's the emergence of Sebastian Berhalter and even an Aiden Morris and a Tanner Testament within that group. I don't think it's good news for a Eunice Musa. And then the third one is the dual national, the dual national insert any dual national here because you've already mentioned he doesn't want to go out and recruit dual nationals. Well, you're going to lose out on the Nathaniel Browns. We saw him as a starter for the German national team. You're going to lose out on the players like Noah Kai Banks who's still uncommitted who could potentially be a very good center back and you need a center back right now. You're going to lose out on the players who have an opportunity to choose a different flag to choose a different national team because you don't want to go through the process because you feel they should already be all in. And maybe there's some romanticism that comes with that but it's not the world we live in a day. I also wonder how Matt Freeze is feeling right now. But what do you think it means for Christian policy? 27 years old now. Chummer have taken off the gold cup so he was good and ready for the World Cup proper and then just 225 minutes across four games for the US. Just one assist, no goals. And then that final lag and a limp in off in the Belgian beat down after 59 minutes. Have this pock for you, him. Parchbribe user as his best player that he has in the program who's untrustworthy when it comes to being on the field physically. And maybe there's some mentality to that as well. And you have to wonder what Christian politics head's going to be at. Two World Cups, he's already accomplished more than any American has ever accomplished at the club level on the men's side. Part of me thinks that Christian policy is over this. How does Marty support you to approach that? How does he fight for Christian policy? If he fights for him at all, I'm sure there's some fans who are saying good riddance be done with them. I don't think that should be the case. I think it's still a very valuable player. But I think this lies more on Christian political side than really Marty support your Dino side. When you say over this, what's this? I think this is the criticism and sadness he has garnered with the US men's national team. There's a certain vibe about the kid that's very John O'Brien that just wants to be happy. John O'Brien, one of the greatest ever with a ball his feet and the US men's jersey on. I'm a man who one of those footballers who need it to be 100% healthy in his own mind to really does. One of the very few players I've ever heard you when given a start the World Cup turn around said, you know, I'm not quite fit. I'm not going to play. I mean, he was there. He was both of those things an incredible football. And now I think is he a therapist? He is. I believe he's a, I believe he's some sort of psychologist now. But you're talking about a John O'Brien who is a very bright shining star who kind of burnt out very quickly and often to the sunset he went and is more for glory within US soccer circles than anything else. Christian policy is not for glory. It's not my opinion that he's the best American at the club level that's ever existed in the men's side. Those are facts. It's not my opinion that when he is physically fit for the national team is one of the best players. If not the best player they have. Those are also statistics. He's a player that for whatever reason cannot stay healthy. And I don't know how much of this summer. Last two summers are going to be on his mind moving forward because you saw this documentary they put out on the network that has the the USman's action games. The the us versus them. The plan words us versus them. It made it seem like it was the media that were going after Christian policy that it was the media that was going after these players. There seems to be a sense of us versus the world, but that world isn't just the rest of the world in a world cup. It's everything that encompasses the footballer. And that's where I'm worried for Christian policy. All right. Let's pull it together with a totally ludicrous game based on how we did it. World Cup 2026. Hook. But think what happens in these tournaments. Do we win the goal cup? No. Because the goal cups and I've been in tournament that the USman's actions taken seriously in the last like seven or eight editions. So I don't expect them to take it seriously again in this edition. I say no. The nation's league. Yes, but it will not be easy. I think Canada's going to be a real run. And then you have Mexico, obviously, who's always a front runner as well. How far do we get in the theoretical 2028 kooper America on home turf? Well, further than you did last time, I'll tell you that's for sure. Too soon. I think quarter final at minimum has to be the standard. You've got to realize that there are some countries that are South American countries, let alone the Mexico's and the Canada's of the world that are prime for real blood this go around because they've not been prime South American countries for quite some time. I'm talking about the Colombia's. I'm talking about the Uruguay's. I'm talking about the Ecuador's. Those disappointing countries that had a terrible World Cup will be gunning for the likes of Argentina and Brazil. 2030 World Cup. How far do we get? I'm very interested, interest, excuse me, in seeing what this new generation is about. The Julian Halls, the Mammettis, you know, the Gozos, you know, we had Xavier Goso on Vamos and the kid like, you want that enthusiasm. You want that hunger with a talent level that goes with it. I'm very interested in what this team's going to look like. I really am, but you're asking me to gauge right now, Raj, a team that's going to be in a generational change and generational change brings heartache. I think there's going to be a lot of lumps in the corner or in the process for Maddie's support, you know, and this is where this trust to process should come in. When you're taking these lumps, not when you got a primed and oiled vehicle that should be winning races. Here is where you trust the process and it's going to be very difficult for me to to trust this process, but I think this young generation has an opportunity to surprise. And a surprise for me would be quarter finals or better in a 2030 World Cup. Hey, man, with Russell Crowe on the sidelines for the big one, you're a beautiful man. I've really enjoyed listening to you to better days ahead. Beautiful. Better days, my man. Care rich.