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This is The Guardian. New goals, no points, speed and 2-0 by Newcastle, is it too early to panic? Liverpool snatch a point at home to forest while Manchester City hammered Palace at Celhoes Park. Three sides on six points so far, then Chelsea, City and Hull City dare to dream after a 1-0 win at Coventry. There's some heroic defending and brilliant goalkeeping as Everton get a late point at Bournemouth, Sunderland get off the mark and leads a lucky to get a point at home to Brentford. We've got the European draws, your questions, and that's the Guardian football week clean. On the panel today, Barry Glen Denning, welcome. Hi, Max. Good morning, Mickey Vandini. Morning. And from the racing post, Mark Langdon. Hey, Mark. Hi, Max. Alright, then start then at Old Trafford, Manchester United 5, Ipswich. Wow, is it 5-2? I switched off in the 90th minute. There we go. I had a fun. It's lucky Joel updates this script, isn't it? Someone must tell me about Tuba Agpom's goal. It could be the goal of the season. I have absolutely no idea. I guess Barry, there's a moment in this game where Ipswich could feel pretty unlucky. You know, they're ahead, they're playing well. Equalizer only happens because their player falls over. United Second will obviously get to. But by the end, Manchester United grew into this game and were brilliant for the last half an hour until, of course, Tuba Agpom. Yeah, it wasn't a goal of the season, but... I think on the face of it, if you hadn't seen the game and you just saw the score, you'd assume it was a pasting for Ipswich at Old Trafford. But the score line doesn't really tell the story of the game because I thought Ipswich were very lucky not to be further ahead by the time Bruno Fernandez scored United's first goal. Lamonds made a good save from Enseiso. Maeda forced the save from Lamonds as well, then Leif Davis scored that wonderful goal to put Ipswich ahead. Real somersault was finished after Fatau had not made Luke show out by the byline and got in around him to deliver the ball into the area. And then I think they had a Leif Davis had another chance that was tipped over the bar by Lamonds. So, United had a lot to be grateful for the keeper. And then a slip from Marcelo Nunes, or Marcelino Nunes, allowed United to score their first. It was really good finish from Bruno, but Kuna took advantage of that slip to play him in. United scored Jacob Greaves own goal from Harry McGuire. That shouldn't have stood because the McGuire handball in the buildup was not accidental. It was deliberate. If it had been accidental, the rune say the goal should stand. But it was very much a deliberate handball. So I think the official got that wrong. And so Ipswich were in this game till very much in it until I suppose just after the hour mark. And then it got away from them, but I thought they played pretty well. Yeah, I think so. They were in it up the am I. But then sort of Nicky Arthur, I'm like they really weren't in it. Yes, it's one of those games where it feels like hard to pick apart what's real and what's just things that happened. Because it's not as much as just outlined the goals. All of United's first three goals, they got some help with, right? Like the first one is the new year slip. And I mean, that can happen, right? Footballers fall over. It's part of the game. It's not like that's cheating or something. It's just a thing that happens. But it is still one of those incidents that feels a bit outside the flow of the game, perhaps. Well, so United took it really well. And I think this is one of the things that I don't want to get away from. I think Bruno Fernandez, I'm certain we'll talk about sensational play out. But the thing is that that was already true about Manchester United. And we're trying to work out what's new about Manchester United. But what it's certainly true kind of maybe is is not like the heart of the question of Horace. But so that first goal feels incidental. And as Baz says that the McGuire goal. I mean, listen, maybe there's a discussion to be had about whether or not that's an accidental handball. I know she given on actually the day was agreeing with Baz. I've been listening to a few different ex pros talking about that because I think that's that line of accidental and deliberate. It's almost more interesting to hear from players and what they think about it because they have a different perspective on it. And and finally enough, one of the takes I thought was, I don't know, felt most right to me on that McGuire goal. Or not his goal, but the own goal. What was effectively done is reward Harry McGuire for doing his job badly. Like shooting off target, he's rewarded. And that just shouldn't be how the rule is, whichever way it is. Now that is the rule, if it's accidental. So on that side, we're not here to say, or but it did feel like a game where there was just such as swing based on those moments. Yeah. That it's hard to completely like have a even view on it almost. I mean, you know, she did something's very, very well, chiefly brilliant. And there's some other stuff to. And it switched to some stuff really, really well. I think for Tawu's move past short to set up their opening goal is so good. And then the finish by leaf Davis as well. So it was a really fun game. And I don't know what conclusions I'm drawing from it. Absolutely fine. Adam says absolutely salivating over the handball discourse on tomorrow's full week. A bit max rush that is made up. Tom can max please run through McGuire handball decision in great detail. The thing is Mark. Right. As Nikki says, he's rewarded for being a hopeless shot. But I don't agree. I hate the handball be dependent on what happens afterwards. You know, I hate a law which is not the decision is not on what happens then. The funny thing is I don't think that should go should be given. But then if that was, if Harry McGuire was in his own box and the ball sort of hit his hand, I wouldn't want a penalty because I'm so averse to that. So then I am saying it's dependent on what happens. So now I hate myself. So I don't know if you can, I don't even give me any clarity. I think the phrase accidental and deliberate is the wrong one to use in sort of 99% of the time because more often than not, a player is not deliberately trying to handle the ball. There will be the other occasion. But on this one, I don't think McGuire is trying to handle that sort of block. I don't know if he's arms in natural position or not. It's quite difficult isn't it to understand where your arms should be. If we're saying that then being out sort of the of your body width is unnatural. Then being inside your body width has to be natural. Otherwise, otherwise you're basically otherwise you can't put them anywhere. Like the referee didn't give handball on the pitch for deliberate handball. I'm sort of comfortable enough that the laws are then put in place for the rest to happen and it's a be given as a goal. And people wanted a softer touch on VAR. I think maybe last season or the season before maybe that would have been pulled up for deliberate handball. And I think there would have been other people saying, well, it's clearly not deliberate where you want them to put his arms etc. And we might get to the Kevin Shard or one a bit later on. I think that would have been given as well in the Brentford V-Liggs game because it was one of them. It was a foul but it wasn't necessarily enough of a foul. That's a penalty for me. But I just think that there is this kind of softer touch. I think the laws and asks anyway. But if you remember, if you go back a couple of years, I think it was during Covid time, Sheffield United and Tottenham played a game where Lucas Mora was deemed to have benefited from a handball situation which he blocked with his back and scored. And people said, well, that was clearly accidental. You can't have that lead into a goal. And so I just think whatever the kind of outcome is, there will always be an argument against it. So the referee allowed it to continue on the field of play. So I'm sort of happier than I think I would have been if they would have got involved in that situation. Yeah, I wonder how many listeners that instantly recalling that Tottenham Sheffield United game from Covid during the Covid years. It was quite a famous one. It was quite a famous, I mean Covid is a strange old time to try to remember anything from there. But it's a pretty, I would say, but as a spurs fan, it was a fairly annoying goal. It seems to remember me and Jamie could only get chicken thigh fillets for Christmas dinner because, you know, that was, that was my, you know, I've never worn things from Covid. Yeah, it's the first time I've ever suffered more in Covid. I take it much. What do you make a copy main who so much talks about the midfield of Metis United and you know, new players coming in and would he be the guy that me sat by? I was impressed with him. Yeah, I thought he had a good game. The speculation over his future, the speculation over America's Rashford's future. I thought they both played well. Rashford probably had a better game or a more obviously better game to me anyway because he's in a more attacking position. But I mean, I did nothing wrong. I think man is a good player and he constantly seems to struggle to, you know, he didn't get a look in for England at the World Cup and there was talk that he'd fallen out with Thomas Tuckle, I don't know if that's true or not. But he did seem to be fed up that he wasn't getting any game time. He was clearly didn't have a fan in Rubin Amoram who pretty much ostracized him. And then Michael Carrick, he did played really well for him when he came in second half of last season. But now there's speculation over his future again. But I think any time he actually gets to play, he does well and makes a good case for himself. So I don't know if there's some sort of or field issue that might be a problem. But certainly as far as his footballing ability is concerned, he looks okay to me. Yeah, let's go to Stanford Bridge. Chelsea 4, Brighton 3, Nikki Chelsea scored 7 and let him 5 in their opening 2 games, the new entertainers. It was another really entertaining game out of, I'll be honest, when you are watching a lot of football over a weekend, like your focus, it comes and goes right. And then to start this game, Chelsea came out of luck so fast. There was a point where I was like, I think I was in your multi-tasking, but you're kind of like, well, I know what that's happening in that game, that game's done. We know it's going to be a thumping win. And then suddenly you find yourself all the way back in because this game is gone completely the other way. And it was just, it's such an odd game, even just to look at the numbers up. And you see Brighton had 74% possession. I mean, it makes sense because they were chasing the game to an extent. And I think it says something about the way they're playing this season. They had 74% possession, but clearly they were never in control of the game, because they were always chasing it. They were always behind. I think that this game in isolation, it felt like Shabby Alonzo had done this wildly attacking choice to have the two wingbacks winning possession just both of them fly every time, both of them just 100 miles an hour all the way forward. So the formation looked like a 3-2-5 on as the end when possession. And Brighton were completely unprepared for it, especially at the start. I mean, they fall behind right away, but they were, Chelsea could have scored like seven. It felt like in this game. They could have scored more than they did. Shall Pedro certainly could have scored before he did. But that commitment to have Netto and Hato always so high up. It wasn't like they used off that after establishing the lead. And Brighton worked out, well, actually there's some pretty huge spaces in behind. And on top of that, the actual back three that stayed, the spaces weren't really very good. A lot of the time they were seeming to not pick up players in between them very well. So it was a really uneven performance by both teams. And again, I suppose we like the last one, a really fun one to watch. Yeah, and also Mark, quite hard to analyze. I mean, at 3-2, Brighton had a number of chances. And in the same way, you're sort of thinking, watching the first half out, you're thinking, well, there's no way Brighton deserved to get anything from this game. But then actually they really, they really grew into it. And Chelsea were always looked likely to score, but they always looked like they could see, you know, it's sort of like good Aussie Adela's vibes. I was probably more impressed with Chelsea than the final score would suggest. Because I think the organisation and the discipline can come. I mean, Javi Lanzo's had two matches. I think it's a lot harder to coach a team to be fluid in attack than it is to work out the defence. And they look sensational in that final area of the pitch. Like Rodgers and Palmer have already kind of built up, not only in understanding with each other, and Shell Pedro, but also the wing back on their side as well. There's a lot of good combination work. Like I would not expect that to be the case, probably now. Two games in particularly in a World Cup summer, although maybe the fact that Palmer and Shell Pedro didn't go to the World Cup can benefit Chelsea, you know, certainly in this early part of the campaign. Like Brighton are a very attack minded team, and we'll just score a lot of goals, I think, against all sides. But I think there was more to take here from like a more positive to take from Chelsea, maybe than just a 4-3 overall. Of course, they will need to tighten up defensively, Arsenal coming up. You can't play necessarily the same way against them. But like this, I think, is a good way to get yourself winning a lot of points. When you're at home to team, you're expected to beat, like go after them and score a lot of goals. Yeah, I liked what I'm seeing from Chelsea. I think the defensive stuff will compete. They've been linked with a few players as well, certainly in midfield that might just be able to balance it out. Camaro, maybe, from Monaco, like Kassato, got injured in the game. But you imagine a fully fit Kassato in there as well. Yeah, I think a really good start from Chelsea, I was conceded. And Barry M. Martinez cheered every time he did literally anything. Wow, this is what a goalkeeper is. Yeah, I feel a little bit sorry for Robert Sanchez because he's got absolutely pilloried last week. I wasn't just on the back of the mistakes he made last week. He was just, he continued where he left off. He makes a lot of errors. They've brought in M.M. Martinez. I think he costs less than seven or eight million pounds. It's an obvious upgrade. He will probably make mistakes too. He has a rick in him. But I think his presence means they've gone from having little or no chance of winning the Premier League to having a much better chance of winning the Premier League. I thought it was interesting as well that Robert Sanchez was drumstray out of the squad. Now, I don't know if that's because Zavilanzo doesn't want him in the squad now that Martinez is here if perhaps he threw some sort of hissy fit as being so unceremoniously replaced less than 24 hours after Martinez has come in. Will he be sold? Who knows? I did think someone who will be sad that Sanchez is no longer playing his part of a brigand because now he is the keeper who's... He does. He's constantly making ricks in life for the first one. I mean, I think it's the keeper. I'm not sure he's sort of going for the ball at the same time. Yeah, I think he makes a lot of mistakes leading to goals, which seems like something you don't want your goalkeeper to do. And it's just Mickey Worth mentioning that Cole Palmer finish. It's just when he's on, and he's just so just unhearingly brilliant, I think. There are some great goals in this one. I think I also wanted to mention Yakuya's goal for Brighton because that was definitely one of the goals that we can for me so well taken. But yeah, Cole Palmer, again, I'm not trying to do any shit. The defending is bad. Brighton's defenders are all spinning around the wrong way and not closing him down as he makes that run across the pitch. But he's so direct, he's so purposeful. And the finish is obviously brilliant. I was nodding along. I just completely agree with Mark that it's much harder to work out this bit, how to make your team this effective going forward. Then it is to then correct adding a bit of balance and adding some structure which can come with time. So I do think that exactly as Mark was saying, that the Palmer Rogers Axis being off to a flight, this is so encouraging the fact that Shabby Alonzo is going to have now all this extra time from not being in Europe to work on the again, the structure and getting a bit more balance. Are we going to even mention the fact as well that I think it's still by the time people listen to this, maybe things will be different, but Enzo Fernandez hasn't gone, right? So there is still that possibility that some of that midfield issue might eventually be a reconciliation thing and he comes back in and can do something. I mean, equally by the time people listen to this, it might be these gone, but I just thought I'd say that because he hasn't moved yet. It seems a perfect time to discuss a team who haven't worked out how to do combinations upfront or structure at the back. Tottenham Nill, Newcastle 2, Macy's is a specialist social experiment in how long a human can endure pain and suffering. I was going to do that thing where we should actually start with Newcastle because they won, but the story is Tottenham because they have no points and they spend a lot of money. Mark, you were there. After the game, DeServie said he wasn't angry and there's no need to panic. Are you angry and are you panicking? So I would be on the DeServie side of things. So I'd say that my dad would probably be on the other side of it and was, you know, is either right manager? Well, what have we done with all this money? I think in isolation, it's two matches. If you have a look back over the last season, which I did yesterday for a bit of fun, and just looked at teams sort of, I was trying to just make myself feel better, I think. But if you just look in isolation at two matches for all teams, you can make good and bad cases. So like for instance, walls finished bottom of the Premier League at one stage of our season back to back. They'd be Aston Villa and they'd be Liverpool. There was a stage of our season in the Premier League when Arsenal drew two games and they lost two matches. And like, it can just happen, but it's obviously higher than the start of the season. I didn't think the first hour was that bad. But if anything, they were the better team. Without being brilliant, they were the better team. Mitigating circumstances in the amount of players that have been, you know, if you look at Van Devend in that preseason, a dog is not at a preseason. Fernandez has another preseason, Poro hasn't. So like they don't look 100% fit. And even in the first half, they weren't pressing Newcastle. But of course, if you're a neutral, like it is funny to see a team win the transfer window and be sort of bottom and sort of have no goals. And actually, by the last half an hour, the last half an hour was a bit that concerned me more, really, because there wasn't much in the way of a comeback, really. There was a long time to get back into it. And so, like, you're right, Max. No combinations. Defenders looking shake in. The midfield's not working. But apart from that, there's big hope. Yeah, so I don't even panic yet. Didn't Tottenham win their first two games last season, including beating Man City. So maybe this is like the exact, you know, the service fixed that. That didn't last season wasn't good. So just flip it on his head. Start with now. How did Mark had a finale play? I thought he was poor. He's got a lot of stick from the Newcastle fans, as you would imagine. But I couldn't work out. And on the one hand, they're saying what a waste of money is. And Tottenham had their pants pulled down. And then the other end, they seem very angry. But he's not a Newcastle anymore, which I suppose is the way that fans are supposed to be. Like, he got taken off to great cheers from the Newcastle supporters. After was deserved, he said he's not in perfect condition yet, which is a slight concern, because he has had a whole preseason. But that midfield, really, with Ben Sancourt, Fernandez, and Tanali, I think, is maybe one to many. In the ideal world, they'd have kind of two of them there. And then a number 10, but all the number 10s are injured at the moment. But it wasn't a good home debut from him. And if anything sort of, you know, he was outshone by in the end, by those Newcastle midfielders as well. And yeah, like Newcastle, I didn't think they were amazing in the first half, but actually, once the Langer got the goal, and it was a fantastic finish. They really enjoyed the last half an hour. And it's been a great start for them, given a lot of the distors around the club in the over the summer. Can I ask Mark, were you in your seat in time to hear the stadium announcer and compare talk about? So we've spent, and we've spent, and we've spent. We're back. We're going places. We're huge. I was there, yeah, Coity, football, Coity, he's got everybody up for it. There was a big cheer at that moment. And you send yourself up for a fall. But yeah, I was in my seat for that moment. You can't blame him, I guess. Unless he's not match fit either. He's not match sharp. He hasn't had a preseason. Also, the Mattias tell free kick was absolutely glorious, wasn't it? He was, he was, I don't want to say this into a top of podcast, he was shocking. He just had one of them games where everything just went wrong for him because there was times in the first half when actually the game plan worked, isolated the winger against the fallback. And you think if that's Savio, potentially, and I maybe you get a different outcome and like Tottenham has bought too many players like Mattias tell over the last five years where there's something there, but it's not, you know, it's just not quite enough. Yeah, you mentioned a die. It looks like he's going to Tottenham for 60 million. But Richard Larson going to Everton for 35 million and Everton fans losing their minds and somehow some is paying 35 million for Richard Larson still. I mean, the numbers mean nothing. Look, Mark alluded to the new customer field. And Gonzalez had a really good game, Barry. And actually, the Alanga goal is such a crucial moment of that game. And God, it's a brilliant goal from Alanga. It is a brilliant goal. They try that move in the very first minute, I think, lovely long pass from Gonzalez on that occasion. Alanga put a wider fire post, I think, but this one, long ball, Newcastle had this clear plan to isolate Andy Robertson by getting deadage forward with Alanga. Gonzalez played a wonderful diagonal pass from deep. Deadage headed it inside to Alanga. And he did really well to spin Tanali and lifted a little bit lucky enough to pull the roll across the line. It took an age to cross the line, but cross the line it did. While it pains me to praise Newcastle, I thought they were really good here. They had a very poor first half when I think Tottenham should have gone a couple of goals ahead. I also think Tottenham should have had a penalty before Newcastle scored when Marmouche was fouled by Malik Tior who was late to a contestable and kicked his boot. But Luis Miley and Gonzalez look great in the midfield for Newcastle. Newcastle fans are finally get to see the Johan Wisser and Alanga that they pay a big box for. Sven Botman was great at this Amara Deadage right back. He looks a good player, Luis Hall was brilliant again. So it's very sad Newcastle looked like they'll be fine this season. Yeah. That's one of your preference. And their manager seems like a good bloke as well. It looks like they might have picked a good one there. I keep looking at him and he's got Parker. I can't help that. I don't know what's happening. The German Scott Parker. Yeah. He looks like the faceless man from Game of Thrones, I think. What does he, what does he end up doing in that? Oh, I presume he gets his head cut off. I can't remember. And there is a review of Game of Thrones. So, you know, it is an occupational hazard. If you are, you know, one of Jon Snow. He's the real weird intense guy who takes Arya Stark to, you know, she learns how to magic sort of thing. He's kind of a wiserly guy. That's producer Joseph. I think that signals the end of part one. I don't know. He's getting into this. We'll be back in a second and we'll start ananfield. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly live shows then. Tomorrow night, we're at Vicar Street in Dublin. So, a few tickets remaining. So, we've got nothing to do. Come and watch us. Me, Barry, John Bruin, Jonathan Wilson. And lots of fun. It says here. We've got some plans and it'll be great. Come along. And we'll probably go to a nearby pub afterwards. But we won't bring a raw chicken this time. Just in case that one poor barman who's just there on a quiet Tuesday night. And suddenly a thousand people all storm in with some lamb chops. And then the ninth of September. We're at the Soho Theatre in Walton, Stowe. Johnny Lu is joining the four of us. So, Mark and Nikki. Come and see us, please. And that show is live streamed. All across earth. So, no excuse for the seven billion or so. Who inhabit this planet. Guardian.co.uk slash football weekly live. If you'd like to come, be lovely to see you. To Anfield, then Liverpool 2 Forest 2. For us to leave twice in this game, Mark. Liverpool saved by Nunoz again. We're Liverpool lucky to get a point. I think in the first half on the evidence of that. Yeah, I think Liverpool could have definitely been behind before. And even in the second half, it wasn't great from Liverpool. That's for sure. I'm just trying to work out whether I've got like a confirmation bias. Because I wasn't strong on Liverpool going into this season. I did think that there would be some issues. And like, I'm not the only one to point out the midfield and kind of the sort of unbalanced nature of it. But I do wonder whether they've now played against maybe two of the best counter attacking teams, potentially in the league. Newcastle we've already seen. I'm very good at that. And Forest, under Glazner, if you've what he had with Crystal Palace, they were a counter attacking side. And when you've got them doy and the pace of him and the quality of Gibbs White. So maybe they'll be better Liverpool when they come up against teams that don't want to counter attack them in quite the same way. But there are clearly sort of issues in that team. That will need resolving at some point. And they keep wanting to buy attacking players and Barclayer, you know, potentially overpriced. But I mean, he's better than what they got on that left hand side. So he will improve them. But I just think they're asking too much of the defense, you know, too often really. And Ereola, like he seems comfortable with the kind of how they are in midfield. But it looks to me like they they could do with getting somebody in because we spoke about Chelsea earlier on. I think they have got solutions. They're just maybe not around at the moment. I don't see those solutions for Liverpool. So I know it's an obvious sort of talking point with them. But I just like it does look like a problem. Would you go with that, Baz? Yeah. They seem quite easy to play through. The midfield seemed to struggle to bring Alexander Isaac into the game. I know he scored in this, but otherwise he looked cock quite an isolated figure. I think the problems are over the pitch. The fullbacks weren't particularly good. Mila Skirk has yet to impress as a Liverpool player. It's, you know, starting the season with two draws is not the end of the world. We know Andy and Ereola is a slow starter. It takes a while for players to learn his way of doing things. Concern maybe with that poor met through an awful lot of games. Our season up to 16, 17 in the Premier League. That is a lot of draws. They don't look as if they'll be threatening to win the title on the evidence, the very early evidence of what we've seen so far. Yeah. It's interesting with Isaac as well, Nick, isn't it? It's almost hard to recall how brilliant he was at Newcastle. He's seen him just not look anywhere near the same. I don't know if that is a service thing or a confidence thing, or all of those things put together. But we know how brilliant he is. Yeah, maybe it's a style of play thing as well. And the way that you're delivering the ball, I mean, I'm going for mining ourselves. He does score in this game. Gakpo was a lovely, lovely turning cross from Gakpo, who's still, again, by the time people listen to this, if the reports to be believed might not be at the club, I find that a very odd transfer. Do you find it weird as well because he started the season really well, and not many of the players have? I know it is only two games, but then you're like, actually, it just looks, the optics are bad. Right, and especially going to another Premier League club. Again, it might not happen where we're talking at a time that everything's going to be going crazy, it's the end of the transfer window, but it seems very odd. But yeah, you know, he's like, took that chance when it was served to him. I think it's, I don't know, don't want to keep repeating this, but his two games into the season. And I think give our Euro a little time to work that out. I do feel like the bigger problems as Spaz and March saluted to me feel like the middle of the park. He felt like Schlager and McAtey had far the better of those exchanges with the Shabish Lion and the McAllister. And that was, I'm going to credit to Nottingham Forest as well. I think Nottingham Forest played a really, really tight tactical game. Really were in control of their spaces. Really were working hard all over the pitch. Morgan Gibbs White doing great work forward and backwards. I don't know. I think Isaac, last season feels like you just kind of have to write it off. Now you've got a new manager, you've got a new system. It's very clearly a work in progress. I think I'm willing to wait and see if he's got a better understanding of how to get the best out of that forward. But it is, I suppose that is one thing that's a bit awkward. You've done that last summer. You've gone out and spent the big lump on a striker, which is always one of those purchases that is supposed to be an investment that lasts you for a while. Does he fit the style of football now under a completely different system? That's the to be determined. You're right. Sure. You don't want to spend a big lump on a big lump. I mean, I did a lot for a spent big lump on a big lump. And he was instrumental in scoring the goal or winning the penalty to put them to one ahead. Yeah. And actually, Igor Jesus is a big lump. But he did really well for the opening goal. It's that huge pun upfield. It was an absolutely love a goal that begins with just hoeing outfield and Liverpool's defence just running away. Key performance for Glazner, who needed that after two disappointing runs. We have to talk about the substitution. Yes. So the penalty is one when forest, when Liverpool want to make a triple substitution. The fourth official Tim Robinson had two boards on the floor and was pressing with the buttons. And Barry, you were explaining to me that these boards, how these boards worked yesterday on the radio. It's a bit like my air fryer. You have to toggle up or down from, you know, a hundred or twenty or whatever. And apparently the team who are making the substitutes, substitutions, they're a backroom staff who are supposed to put the numbers in the boards and then the fourth official checks them and holds them up. Tim Robinson was the fourth official. He was doing it here. Each board can only handle two substitutions at a time, hence the need for the two boards. I'm not sure why it took him so long. I think we established on the radio, because in Gomoa has such a high shirt number. Yes, 73 apparently. But it certainly got on Andy, and an Eriola's goat, and it's a process that should be straightforward. I don't think it's a process that's even required because the stadium announcer could announce who's coming on and off, and the referee could tell whoever's going off, they're going off. I mean, lucky for Tim, that there weren't five subs, because then he needed that board, if he could only have two on each board. With squad numbers getting so high, he'd be able to make a board, but you could just write 73 for 73. Rather than Tim Robinson going, one, two, three, four. What do you accidentally get to 74? Do they have to go all the way up and then back to naught? It's like like session, a digital watch. It's like... Anyway. I'm Friday night, Man City, one, four, one at Palace. Look, City can be hard to love sometimes, Mark, but Ryan Cherky is such a joy, and he's first ever brace, and he had a great game. And yeah, although afterwards, he said he was angry with himself and not setting up Holland more often, and says that from next week, he'll do that, and create more chances of Holland to score. I was knocked over by how good City were in this game, and it's a different city that they can't play the same way with Pep Guardiogon. I wasn't impressed with them at all, but Ulmoth, this idea that gave him it filled work, just completely disagreed with, even though he scored from a set piece. But there was a much more normal kind of look to the team in terms of sort of players in the right position against Crystal Palace, and like they were a threat just every time. They went forward. Cherky was fantastic for Holland. Obviously, you know, took these goals as you would expect, Holland. It really was. It was a great camera angle for it as well. Sort of looked in, you know, from the moment he headed it. Foden had an indifferent first half, really, where he was getting into the right positions and didn't take the chances, but he grew into the game as well. And yeah, it was, again, talking about Alonzo earlier on, but to get that combination played going so early, I think we'll have pleased, Mareska. An interesting atmosphere, though. Max, I don't know if you saw the story before the game about the Palace Ultras sort of disbanding and not kind of sort of working as a group anymore. It's due to statement on that saying, you know, they're unhappy with lots of things around the club and modern football and etc. And it did feel, it didn't feel like sort of sell-hurst. It was a hostile game. Yeah, it didn't feel quite as hostile as it could be, you know, given it was Sarge's first game as well. So, you know, they want home advantage because it's been a tricky start for a new manager with me and Matetta not wanting to be there. So, not wanting to be there. I've lost a couple of players as well. Like, it just feels really unsettled at the moment at Crystal Palace, but from a city point of view, yeah, I really enjoyed watching that. So I'm like a game of British Bulldog, where PSR is just like there. And all the players are trying to run past him. Matetta, and he's called Matetta, and then Daniel Muno has a skip through and gone to Forrest, who I had there you. But, I mean, that's an interesting point, I think, Barry, because those palace fans at home do make such a difference to that side. I think they have reason, don't they, to be frustrated, because, you know, they're selling all their players. But, at the same time, your expectations changed so quickly and football, right? You know, you win, you... Like, the last three years have been the most successful three years Crystal Palace have ever, ever had. And I suppose it's trying to balance all of those things, I guess, the ownership would say. Yeah, when I heard that about the Hornstale's fanatics disbanding my immediate reaction was like, oh, this is like someone pompously announcing their leaving Twitter. You know, you don't need to do that, just stop tweeting. But, their concerns are valid, I think. Their team has basically been sold off for spare parts. I mean, city were comfortable winners in this game, but I didn't think palace were terrible. They were a bit like their game against Everton last week. They were good in spots to eat Mitchell and Eddie. And Kettie Abort missed really good chances when palace were only a goal down if they'd gone in. Who knows what might have happened, probably another city win anyway. But, Sellers Park is one of not many Premier League grounds where there's a really good atmosphere. And if they lose that, as well as a load of best players, it could be a bad season for them. As they disband, but their season tickets are all in the same place. They're all still sitting next to each other, but they're not, you know, they're just not a go-and-concern. They just don't, how does that work? I don't know. If crickets, England crickets, baramey army, just, you know, we're still here. We're just not baramey anymore. It's possible. Hull, top of the league, or joint top at least, 100% records, half way to beating the Derby points total already, which Spass predicted they may not to do. Look, it's a brilliant start for them, Nicky. And like, you know, those games now, where you think, you know, you come the end of the season, you take three points off a team you expect also to be down there, and maybe Hull will surprise us like Sunderland did last year, but just to win your first two is an unbelievable start. Yeah, it's the same discourse as before. Tottenham won the first game last year. It doesn't guarantee you anything. Your season could still be hard, but I think there's so much encouraging about the way that they're playing. And, you know, I'd heard good things about Jakarovich before this season, and I do feel like he's looking already, like he's just a good tactician doing sensible, nothing necessarily. There's rewriting there, the playwright, but the team, I think contrasting, because there was such a contrast, even talking about Chelsea before, and how their back three have these spaces between, didn't look right. When you see Hull defending, their back three is so compact in this game. They've given up something like 70 crosses across their first two games, but it doesn't matter because they've got these three big centerbacks who are controlling that space inside the area so well, and they are playing effective counter-attacking football when they want to. I mean, they got the winning goal through Miller. He apps well, he apps that you should have passed instead of shooting a few minutes earlier and they could have scored before they did. So it wasn't necessarily the most eye-catching performance of the weekend. It wasn't necessarily sparkling, ridiculous, seven goal football like we had in some other games, but it was just a good, well-organized team play that was very, very effective. And I think they've done that now in two games in a row. They haven't conceded a goal in their first two games back in the Premier League. I think there's lots and lots to look at here and think they've got a very good chance of fighting to stay in the division. The chance before that Miller put wide when he couldn't should have passed it. Actually, it's set up by Matt Burnie. The more I see Matt Burnie, Mark, and having been at the Abbey to watch Lyndon Dykes look okay for Millwall, Millwall reserves, I was thinking, how did Matt Burnie not make the Scotland squad? Because he has got something different like a really smart, intelligent, creative footballer. He's playing very well in these opening two matches. He clearly has to have been an issue between player and manager because even last season, he was playing better than some of the strikers that went to the World Cup. That's for sure. And actually, when you look at the way Scotland played, having someone like Matt Burnie up there that would have held it up, brought others into it that midfielders, McTom and A, for instance, maybe has a better World Cup if Matt Burnie is the one that's holding it up and then releasing him. What I like about Hall, and I'll say this, I don't really want to watch them for 90 minutes every week because I don't think it's going to be a great watch, but they know who they are and what they want to be. Coventry on the other hand, they're brought in new players as of Hall, but I still think they're figuring out, they were a possession-based team in the championship. Can we still be that in the Premier League? It's a difficult conundrum, I think, for Frank Lampard, in terms of how they try and approach this season, whereas Hall, they did this last season in the championship. So they're very comfortable in their skin, and they will play like this, I would say, for the 38 matches, and I don't expect it to be enough, but what a great start, and you're right on what Burnie is. He's a good player to watch. There aren't enough players like Burnie in the Premier League anymore. Yeah, some Steve Clarish vibes for me. Only three teams have ever been relegated from the Premier League, having won their first two games. One of those teams is Hall, by the way, just to take away, having given you that hope. And I'll do for part two, part three, we're going to Bournemouth. Welcome to part three, they're going to go in for weekly Bournemouth, one-everton-one. I really enjoyed this game, Barry. Yeah, it was good. I think it draws probably for a result in the end. Everton will feel they should have won, because Jordy Petrovich made some, I think, at least three really, really good saves for Bournemouth. Bournemouth went ahead. Their goal was all about Evan Eelsen, I think. He chased a long ball upfield and turned James Karakowski inside out, and then set up Alex Scott, who set himself and fired into the corner. Tyrann O'Barry was back to probably the Tyrann O'Barry. We're more accustomed to, rather than one that roared out with the traps in the first two games this season, with four goals, he missed two very presentable chances. Although I will give him the benefit and don't say it was more brilliant saves than denied him than his own shortcomings as a finisher, but he should have scored. But Everton goal, Marco Rose, they described it as slapstick, and he was right. Two Bournemouth players got on each other's way, trying to cure the ball at a corner. It dropped for Tyrann O'Barry and he just made sure it hit the target and then it went. But not hilarious slapstick. I mean, I'm not saying, you know, Laurel and Hardy, the chuckle brothers wouldn't have finished a show with that. It wasn't the chuckle brother who was bringing a giant pin of glass across the street. No, no. It was sort of, you know, we need highs and lows in this scene. We'll save the pain of glass again. This is just a bit of ladder work, you know, just kidding with the ladder. That's what it was. The petrol is stayed from the Brantway header early. That flick is absolutely unbelievable, piece of goalkeeping, I think. And Michael Enco did this sort of double block. There's a moment where Everton defenders were just hurling themselves at the ball the whole time. I don't need some pick for celebration after that was, you know, he'd love to get involved. But I was, I don't know if I was going to just still be a fund of their match and say, I think the big story for Everton was kind of off the pitch, really. I must admit, when I saw on Saturday morning that Forrest were bidding 40 million for Armstrong. I was like, I don't even know who he is. And I was like, wow, like 40 million, you've got to take that. And then the Everton fans were up in arms and sort of suggesting that maybe this would be like when Newcastle sold at the Anderson. And yeah, I appreciate like he's a player that's just passed me by really. And you know, it would have been a kick in the teeth to have lost him clearly. But David Moise after the game, I just, like there's something reassuring about an angry David Moise. Like I think all is well with the Premier League if Moise is sort of furious in the, and he always does it in this sort of way where he gives very short answers. There's got this bit of code in there and you have to try to work out, you know, just how angry on that one to 10 years. I think he's, I think he's about an eight at the moment. He's ready to blow, but this won't see what comes from the last couple of days. Sure. This is what is Harrison Armstrong. The owners were going to sell him and the fans said, don't do it. And they've sort of reneged on it. Do you think maybe that was a small screen so they could slip him and enjoy out the side door? How they do, what I bring it. And welcome back, Chris Charles. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, Barry's missed those chances. It's all right. Richard doesn't can miss them next week. But I mean, but there is a serious point here, Nicky, and it's just, it shows this kind of pure profit for academy players. He's inherently wrong. Because it just goes against like the point, you are better off sending your best academy player to some other club and then buying them like two years later. All of football, chance for market stuff recently feels like it's become this incredibly odd. Counter-intuitive set of motivations for everyone. You've got teams selling off entire squads because of PSR. I mean, ask them a bit of the obvious case in the Premier League and just having to completely get asset stripped after a period when they've been building up something. But the stuff with academy players, I mean, I don't know how aware of this move places out for people outside of Premier League folks to be. But this summer, I mean, Niko Paz at Korma, who has been, has been, was bought by them, not taken on loan bought by them a couple of years ago, has been there for two years. Real Madrid retained an option to buy them back for about 11 million euros. They bought him back and almost the same day sold him back so that then they could have another new release clause put in its 60 million euros. All of it feels fake. All of it feels like it's this whole elaborate setup that they're all doing. And it's going to be in reality, like this is how smart clubs do business from now and it's going to be coming up with more elaborate ways to, I guess, manipulate the bottom lines and make the numbers look how they're supposed to look, but without breaching rules and without breaking laws, I guess. Yeah. A Sunday month full of mail, Barry. Big win for Sondland, because there's some tough fixtures coming up, Brentford Arsenal, and I think Manchester City. So they needed to get some points on the board here and they did. It wasn't a very good game, nor did Mukieli impress for Sondland. Wilson is a door hit one after the foot of the post after pretty build up work by granite jacket and Enzo Lafay. And then scored a second time of asking after a great Mukieli passed down the line to Habib Diara, who squared the ball for his door. Brent Lennell made an absolute dog's breakfast. He should have saved that, but he went with his feet instead of his hands to try and block the ball at his door's feet. But yeah, good win for Sondland and much needed because, as I said, if three really difficult games coming up. And then finally leads Brentford, which I thought was a good game. I thought Brentford might be pretty unlucky in this. They were all over leads for certainly the first half, the shard of goal. Well, let's spend some time on the shard of goal. That's absolutely glorious. Yeah, I don't feel like it got enough praise, actually. There are times when I was watching the Chelsea game at the time to sort of rely on updates elsewhere on social media. And you know, like the sometimes people go crazy over a goal. And then you see it. It's kind of ruined because you're expecting this unbelievable, I don't know, volley from 40 yards. But this one I felt was underplayed. The skill to be able to control that in a deliberate way. It wasn't lucky. It was a brilliant finish from Sharda, who I think is an exceptional talent, actually, one of them that, you know, Brentford, when they want to sell him, we'll get an absolute fortune for. You're right, Max, that Brentford should have won this game. And the penalty, you were even more angry than me over the fact that, I'm sorry. But I think it's a foul. I think it's a foul. So therefore, I think it's a penalty. But I've got to say, my anger levels are very... I'm really... I'm even. There's no part of me that is seeding about it. But I mean, to go to lead, or I think we're a good side this year, dominate them at Ellen Road, and be disappointed to finish with a point. I suggest to me that Brentford missed out on Europe last season, but really should be aiming for, sort of, top 6-7 this time around. So I should have mentioned, actually, speaking of Europe, you've suddenly got there a Europa League draw on Friday. So I had to Google one of the teams that are playing torrents who were a Portuguese second division side. Mark hilariously pointed out that they probably had to Google Sunderland as well. They also got Jaguilonia, and the other reason I know Polish side, the other reason I know who they are, is because they're knocked out Rangers. But it's not the most glam draw imaginable, Dino Morzagreb at home, and AC Malano wayer, the standout fixtures, and Newcastle fans have a song, called You Never See a Macam in Milan, so they don't have to shelve that. I thought, where are the start of when you said torrents? I thought you said you're going to have to Google Torino, and I thought, well, I know you're not here as a Euro expert, but I thought maybe even they hadn't entirely passed you by over these years. I can't wait to learn the only player to have scored in the last 11 Premier League seasons, so well done to him. Villaraston tonight, as I will talk about that on tomorrow's podcast, I like this question from Steve, with people losing their minds early. Can anyone explain what Arsenal are doing? Must have the worst attack in Europe? Well, bending over backwards for a player that doesn't want to come to us, Nikki, please tell us something. I think Nikki's, I really hope you totally agree and I've lost your mind too, but feel like you've got quite a good attack, everything. The worst attack in Europe is certainly a stretch. We've still got Ryan Loft kicking about. I do think there's, I do think it's this closely in the transfer window. It's not, I think it should be remarked on, that they have saying goodbye to Martin Ellie, and Trosar and Jesus. That's more than 100 appearances for the last season. I think it's more than 130 appearances for the last season. And Martin Ellie, while he was far from prolific, he was the top scorer in the Champions League with six goals. Overall, 11 goals was actually their joint second with sacco and all competitions. So there is a question of why they haven't done something more in terms of business this summer. And whether they've been too hung up on certain players where I don't know, the feeling isn't mutual maybe. And I'll be interested to see if something does get done for the end of the transfer window. But yes, I would agree that that's a little bit hyperbolic to say the worst attack in Europe. He's harsh on sacca, isn't it? Champions League draw the headlines, then Liverpool home to athletic away to Inter Milan amongst others. Villa, have PSG at home, Barça away, City, PSG at home, Barça away. Man United, have Bayern Munich at home, Athlete away, and Arsenal Real Madrid at home, Bayern away. And Sabah at home, speaking of teams, we've never heard of. Gooner in Paris says, Where Cambridge Mum Doff.com max, yeah. Neil Harris who is so football and post match, we lost two one at home to Huddersfield. One up with 10 minutes to go. We scored later, and then they across straight away. And then we considered a penalty that was a clean tackle outside the box. But our goal, we also pushed one of their players over to be fair. But ours was Neil Harris did say, in Prop and Neil Harris' way, we've been mugged off. We've been Prop and mugged off.com. There's another podcast. There are other podcasts. I don't actually know. Yeah, but there is. There is, there is, on the different podcast, there is a section on it called, Bloke or Giza, where they discuss. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a Bloke or a Giza. And I think Neil Harris is absolute Giza on every, on every sense of it. Like he's just won't, he's definitely not bloke. Is that Josh James? Is that that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Had him on the radio. Yeah, he's good. And they're funny. But yeah, he is absolute. He's Giza and he's football Giza. In that of times, he says football club. In a sentence, he's absolutely glorious. Thomas says, dear Max Barry and the rest, can we please have a special mention to our dear friend, Luca, who's getting married to his lovely fiancee in Spain on September the 12th. Fortunately, on the 24th of August, disaster struck when Luca suffered about a testicular torsion. Oh, that's a bollocks. Yes, bollocks tangled up. This ill-time twist of fate, pardon the pun, has meant he'll be on antibiotics for the wedding, as well as the stagdo that weekend before, meaning he won't be able to drink. It poses an interesting question. Which of the panels do you think will be more painful? A, testicular torsion, or B, having a completely sober stagdo in Benadour with 18 of your very drunk and unsympathetic mates? Oh, God. I mean, it's bad enough if you could drink. We thought this would be right in the football weekly mailbag wheelhouse with it being testicular, Jason, and a tale of newlyweds. Our Luca is a huge football weekly fan. I know Barry, wishing him and his tangled tackle all the best on his big day would mean the world to him and help take away some of his pain. All the best keep up the good work. So that is Luca, we don't... Tom doesn't even give the name of his lovely fiancee. That's gonna be much work. Yes, just lovely. So it's to... Well, I hope she's gentle with you on the wedding night. That's not a cause. Well, I'm it. Well, if Luca is tempted to have a few pints of Benadour, I would strenuously advise against it if he wants to avoid a certain Munich-type incident. God, that's what happened to me. Okay, just a, yeah. Well, I don't know. Rub salt into the wounds. It's probably not the right phrase. But anyway, yes. Best of luck to you, Luca. That's tag-do. It sounds awful anyway. Imagine me able to... To be able to see it in pure sober, through sober eyes is an absolute disaster. I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think... But good idea. Stay on the sofa. I've just started watching Ludwig. Very entertaining. You can do that instead. All right, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Baz. Thank you. Thanks, Nicky. Thanks, Mark. Thank you, Max. We'll see you in Dublin tomorrow. And we're back for a pod tomorrow as well. Football Weekly is produced by James Pike. Watson, our executive producer, is Joel Grover back tomorrow. This is The Guardian.
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