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This is The Guardian. Hello and welcome to The Guardian football weekly. We've all been there, tried to sell the World Cup on a Monday, get threatened with a boycott on a Tuesday, wildly backtrack on a Wednesday, and you're denying affairs on a Thursday and Friday and Saturday. And I hope in his words, Janie and Fancy, they managed to chill on Sunday. We'll take you through the story and find out if you'll clink to power. And if beyond your aid for there's a ground swell to actually get rid of him. Elsewhere, as we play catch up, we'll talk anyhow leaving Newcastle, pay tribute to Kevin Keegan. There's too much transfer news to start the car about Cup in a weekend. Don't like change. Rangers dropping points in the Scottish Premiership. Two games in already. We'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian football weekly. On the panel today, Robin Cowan. Welcome. Hi Max. Hello, Sam Darling. Hello Max Russian. Dan Bardell. Welcome. Hi Max. And joining us for part one to discuss, Janie is global sports business correspondent Matt Hughes, a grand title Matt. Welcome. How are you? I'm good. Thanks. Right. So in case you've had two weeks off as well, I have a little timeline. So bear with me, everybody. On the 27th of July in Fantino, marked the end of the world cup. I lifted this from the Guardian, by the way, if you want more detail on it. By taking to Instagram with a 15 page post calling out the media for trying to sully it, those sitting behind pens and papers behind their screens, spreading hate and false rumors specifically about greed and in Fantino's relationship with Trump had let themselves down. Journalists should take a moment to reflect, meditate, pray, or watch a match. I feel very seen. The next day or hours later, actually a report in the Times exposed his secret 3.5 billion pound plan to sell stakes in the world cup to private investors, potentially earning him tens of millions of pounds at the deal would have involved the brother of Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner, politicians and football figures, attack that. The next day, it emerged that FIFA had given the 211 member associations a deadline of the 19th of September to back it or lose their 15 million pound cup. Conker Cap said it was only made aware of the matter through media reports. UEFA accused FIFA officials of using sports to enrich themselves and their friends. The following day, the 30th of July, all 55 UEFA members agreed to boycott FIFA competitions if the plan goes ahead. On the 31st of July, Andy Burnham became the first head of remageration to calling in Fantino to resign. At Trump said he had nothing to do with it. On the 1st of August, FIFA backed down. In Fantino instead, issues a new statement with drawing the plan, having, quote, listened carefully to all the views. Qatar come out in support of Gianni. The 2nd of August, the New York Post claims that in Fantino's repeatedly tried to call Trump for help that Trump is an answering. On the 3rd of August, Ingham Wells Serbia joined Finland and Sweden in demanding change at the top of FIFA. On the 4th, FIFA number 2, Matthias Grabström calls the plan a sad and reproachable series of events in a leaked email to staff. On the 5th of August, we're almost at today. In Fantino calls a FIFA crisis meeting in Morocco, FIFA then issues a statement saying, staff have given him their unanimous backing and put critics on notice. It was agreed that FIFA will no longer tolerate any attacks on its integrity, oh dear. Luis Figo becomes the first high profile footballer to go into footage. On the 6th, UEFA doubles down on its boycott threat. FIFA pro says reforms not a cover-up are urgently needed. On the 7th, then Mexico and Argentina follow Africa's governing body in rallying around in Fantino. Nor is FA call for him to go. In Fantino arrives in Colombia for the inauguration of the hard-right president, Elbalado, Adela Espriella, a key Trump ally. That day as well, the telegraph reports that a woman received a six-figure sum following an alleged relationship with Infantino while he was at UEFA. Allegations that FIFA dismissed as categorically untrue. And then the next day, that was the 8th of August, two days ago, UEFA confirmed a departure payment was made to a female employee who is alleged to have been in a relationship with Infantino while he was UEFA's general secretary. Yesterday, Javier Tebas, the head of La Liga, said Infantino's position at FIFA's untenable. And FIFA said it welcomes legitimate scrutiny. But scrutiny has not a license to distort facts, amplify unsubstantiated allegations or manufacture distractions designed to undermine progress. So it's legitimate scrutiny time, Matt. Do we start with why what he was proposing is so bad or is that obvious to everybody, or is it worth spelling that out? I think the most extraordinary thing for me came out of a conversation I had yesterday with someone seeing a European football who said, if Javier got about this the right way, he probably would have got support for it. The only reason, on the main reason was being the outcry, not in Europe, elsewhere in the world, is that it was a secret, no one knew out of it. And it just looks really bad. And that is the most extraordinary thing for me is that how Infantino could not see that doing a secret deal which undervalued the woke up with a close family friend of Donald Trump would just be a no-go. Yet he couldn't see it. Yeah, but do you think that's because once you have so much power and you tend to surround yourself with sick offense, then you lose sight of reality, is that fair? Well, it's because he didn't consult anyone who he thought might disagree with. Yeah, and now there are lots of people who see this opportunity right to get rid of Infantino, but he does still have lots of support. Do you think his plan is to kind of just ride out the storm? You know, lots of football seasons start soon or have started. Our focus, the media's focus, will turn elsewhere. I think that is his plan and I think it's working. I think there was a point, maybe a week ago, five days ago where if other confederations had followed him behind UEFA and gone really hard and said he must go, then his future would have been in doubt, but that hasn't happened and even the people on FIFA Council, which is like supposed to be the cabinet of FIFA as it were in political terms, they've been trying to sort of push for an EGM to discuss this and then they're not getting the votes and even call that meeting, never mind call for a vote of confidence or get rid of him. So that just shows how hard it is going to be to change anything. So I think in the short to medium term, nothing will change and the question is if UEFA can find a candidate that put up against him in next year's election and also getting enough support or if UEFA carry on with their threat to boycott, right? Because it's not just, you know, the original thought as well that there isn't really a men's world cup for a while, but there are women's tournaments soon under 20 tournament, you know, there are FIFA section tournaments that UEFA teams will be playing. Yeah, there's a under 20 women's world cup next month and there's senior qualifiers in October, England, they've got two games, two like a playoff against Greece, to qualify for the Brazilian World Cup, which is a big deal. Obviously, but I think, and so next month will be a real tension point. Will UEFA back down, will FIFA back down and issue some sort of statement saying, we're sorry we'll never do this again, but I'm talking to people in football. Even that isn't quite the leverage it appears because to be honest, the women's world cup, it's important for the people involved, but it doesn't make FIFA any money. They lose money, they're paying to put it on, basically. Obviously, because it hasn't got any commercial value. If European teams don't turn up, it's embarrassing, but FIFA aren't losing anything, and in fact, they can probably spin it to their advantage, saying, look, you know, Europeans, they're trying to destroy the world, they don't care about women's football, they want everything their way. So I think it's exactly will potentially be damaging for you if the boy got his head. Does this mistress and payoff if true? I mean, make any difference apart from confirming any assumptions that he's a massive insert of the four-letter word here at home and as well as at work. So the fact that it's come out now shows that the enemies of Inpatino are piling up and they're trying to get all Ionish and they've got to throw it in, but unless it's shown he's done something illegal, I don't really see it sticking. I mean, there's power levels with very close power levels, with Donald Trump, his great mate in there. So he's been accused all sorts of them in popularity. There's been court findings against him. Yet he's still present in the United States, right? I'm interested in what you were saying in the intro, Max, about the sort of not Eurocentric view of this, because I'm definitely guilty of, you know, thinking, well, why on earth would anyone want this guy to stay? Obviously, as you say, has got loads of support from elsewhere, but there are also accusations that there's Jordan F.A., basically, said he blackmailed them. I mean, that's pretty serious. I just wonder brutally why he's got so much support from elsewhere. Is it simply because he's the one who holds the cards and the money for these federations? Because he made a huge amount of money for them, basically. That's the way the system works. And FIFA's unusual one-member, one-vote system means that if you're England or you're Germany or you're Jordan or you're the Ferro Islands or you're Kurosau, you get the same money. So for a lot of these countries, and it's not even so small, I'm just not really. For the vast majority of countries, most of their football funding comes from FIFA. I think he's increased it by a factor of eight in these 10 years in charge and under the proposal, he was going to quadruple it again from $5 billion US dollars over four years to 20 million plus the 20 million sweetener that Maxifer to an intro. So he was massively increasing the handouts, frankly, is why he has his support. But he's also the number of things. And again, we're guilty of looking from a English European lens, but he has increased access. We might not like 48 team walk-ups and 64 team walk-ups because if we're in English or French or German, not Italian, we qualify for 32 team walk-ups. So we don't need it. But these things are popular. And he's obviously done that. That's the walk-up. He's done that on a lesser scale in youth torment as well. So he has, if you're in front of his sympathetic, he has broadened access and made football more of a global sport, which obviously is popular. Listening to what you're saying is, is there a chance that he'll come out of this even more powerful? Because obviously, for people like us who have been very critical of him for a long time and who don't necessarily believe that he really cares about football fans, even if he has helped football in lots of small countries, his motivation isn't necessarily to help football in those countries, but that is a byproduct of it. Is there a possibility that after this, there is his threat to his power, he cleans on, he holds on, then there's not going to be another threat to his power for ages. I don't think it'd be more powerful when he's definitely damaged by this. And there's no way even he could spin falling out of your wafer and a boy caught the walk-up is a good thing. So he's clearly messed up. I think the height of his power was that after the World Cup, where the death of the walk-up finally, he told all the federations he made, 15 billion US dollars for them, which is more than even he could have expected to make from the World Cup, largely because of ticket prices and secondary markets and hospitality, et cetera. So at that point, he wasn't touchable and he was already basically putting wheels in motion to definitely expand to 64 in 2030, which would have been really popular in South America because they've got more games, et cetera. That is now, whatever happens, he's now weakened to things like that that he wanted to do may not happen. But the idea that he's going to topple in a week or a month or even six, I don't see it. And I think even if there is an election next year, it's pretty hard to call. Yeah, and the same way that, most of the left-leading world, I'm like desperate for one brilliant Democrat to appear, to be the person to take on Trump. Who is the guy, who's the guy or the girl? Who is the person to take over, to challenge Infantina? Well, there's three candidates, and it's not great news because one of them's already lost to him in 2016, the head of the AFC Salman, Nassar Khalifa, who's present of PSG and European football clubs has said he doesn't want to do it, and he can't do it, really, because his ultimate boss is the mayor of Qatar and Qatar have said, we're backing him until now, so he's out. Which basically leaves one man, Victor Montagliani, who's the president of ConquerCaf, Canadian, he's been head of ConquerCaf for eight years, he's seeking reelection again next year. He's been seen for a long time as a successor in 2031. A lot of people are now urging, pushing him to stand next year, and the key is, does he think he can win? If you think he can win, I'm sure he will stand, because he does want any would be able to present himself as a change candidate. He's not European, but he has Italian ancestry, so that sort of helps unite North America and Europe in a way. But his silence has been start over the last couple of weeks. Right. So it'll be fascinating to see if he moves. And then he could end up being worse than Jan. You know, bladder goes and finally he's worse, Robin. Well, that's what I'm going to say. Like, I saw in the Athletics, Seb, Staff, and Bloor basically said, is it time for to not have a president, and to kind of reform? And I don't know how that he didn't really know, and how would that work? Because it just seems like everyone who steps into FIFA HQ becomes sort of Dr. Evil. So like, is there a way of kind of not having this kind of totemic figure in charge of everything? Well, I've been some interesting ideas that I've emerged over the last few weeks, whether you have your action in them or not, is a different question, of course. But someone was saying that they should rotate it every four years and every four years, the president should come from a different confederation. So it is shared around the world. I mean, FIFA is extraordinary. And let's not forget that how rare change is. I think in 50 years, we've had free FIFA presence. Have a lunch, butt or infantino. Blatter only lagged, because the FBI basically got angst on this Swiss hotel where he was staying. Infantino was supposed to be the reform candidate, but he changed the rules. Rule that said, you could only serve free four-year terms, but after 10 years, the side of the change it, and he can now serve four. So yeah, I mean, Hanne's always talking about democracy, which is hilarious. So yeah, it's pretty hard. FIFA, FIFA clearly needs root and branch change. It's just how do you achieve that, where you're handing it all these money? People are turning their veil, aren't they? What a three. Have a lunch, blatter, infantino. That was great, is it? All right, then Matt, we'll get you back on. As and when, this story develops, so we all forget about it for six months, but here's power takes for coming on. Anytime. That'll be for part one, part two, we'll begin with all the stuff that we've missed, starting with Eddie Howell leaving Newcastle. So then Sam, you're a Newcastle fan, you know? And you need to step up after your deafening silence, because you're support for infantino in part one. Eddie Howell's gone, a new man's come in, Matthias Yesler, you've lost all your players, how are you feeling? How am I feeling? Well, when I saw the agenda come through for this podcast, I thought actually the infantino stuff was a bit of light release before my, like, therapy or emotional torture started, because Newcastle had been in the news a little bit in the last couple of weeks. Eddie Howell, right. One of the things with football, it's a real issue of it, is a lack of something called nuance. You either have to be pro or against something. So for the last year or not, maybe not quite a year, but in the castles fan base last year, there was this division. It was either you were a happy clapper for Howell or you were against him and you were ungrateful. And this narrative was driven, it was driven online, social media, a little bit by some very pro Howell journalists. And the truth lies somewhere in between. And I think it's important to remember that it is possible to hold two thoughts in your head or two opinions that don't massively align with each other. So you can say that Eddie Howell and still think that Eddie Howell did an absolutely brilliant job at Newcastle United, which I do. And you can also have in your head that it was probably time for a change for something fresh. And that's without a tributing necessarily blame that there was so many different factors in it. So what a long window way of trying to say, I think it was time for Eddie Howell to go. I think he should have gone at the end of last summer. I almost wish he did because he would have got that last time game of the season, he would have felt the love from the Newcastle fans for everything he did at Newcastle United, which includes winning a trophy. I mean, on that basis, he's the most successful in Newcastle manager in a long, long time. There's a debater to whether he's the best in Newcastle manager, but I mean, that's just subjective and it doesn't really matter. So we remember the good things about him. What he did, I think, Eddie Howell, when he came in and kept Newcastle that right, they won 12 of their last 18 Premier League games. They'd only won one game for that in the season. So the uptick under him and then the following season when they finished four for almost the same squad. And what Eddie Howell managed to do, I've been reflecting on this. I've never been more invested in Newcastle United than that first 18 months, two and a half years under Eddie Howell. It was absolutely fantastic. And it's always because they reverse engineered it. When the fifth came in, it was a shell of a football club and there was no proper setup. So they just basically had to bring this manager in and his staff and then they've been, ever since then, they've been struggling to construct around him. They reverse engineered this setup and how I'd lot of the power over transfers and things happened. Derrickson football came and Derrickson football went. And then last year, you could just see it going stale. The same things weren't quite working. The transfers last summer didn't work. They spent a lot of money on players that Howell wanted that they didn't all work out. They couldn't handle the number of games. There were players who have now left that had already started to check out. And the intensity wasn't there. And it just felt like, you know, in relationships where the sort of, it's like, I love you, but I'm not in love with you anymore. And it just felt for a long time, like it was going that way. A different Newcastle fans will tell you at which point they realized that it just wasn't working. But, and for good reasons, everyone tried to hang on because it had been so good for so long. But I think the inevitable happened. People talk about timing that he came in and said just before pre-season, actually, I can't do this. I don't mind that because I think we've all done things in like what we've fought in theory. Yes, I can go and do that. And then actually, it's come to it. You've walked into the room, you've got to that event and actually, you're like, no, I just can't do it. And I think what he did was for the good of Newcastle United. And I think now, whereas there was a divided fan base last year, now there's going to be very much United fan base behind the new guy. And it's a complete reset. From the outside, you sort of look at those players going, a manager that we don't know a lot about coming in. And you can feel a lot of how we were talking about, not necessarily similar, similar size clubs, but sort of Brentford last year or, you know, or Bournemouth, I know they said it very early. But you know, they lost so many players and go, I think they might struggle. And actually, they could be absolutely fine this season. It's very hard to know. Yeah, I think you look at the managerial appointment and obviously say that there's links because he's managing Saudi Arabia and you wonder, is that the reason they've signed him or is it the job that he did previously in Austria, were they taken by that? And that's the reason that they've brought him to Newcastle. If you look at what the manager has done, it's the kind of appointment that he've brought in, Brentford, Bournemouth, make it, you probably think, oh, a lot's got into that. It's interesting, like Bryan's, for example, I have that list of managers that they were done. They've been keeping track of him for a long time. It's different. With Newcastle, I think that it's a different type of club. I think there's a lot going on at Newcastle at the moment. I think Sam's right that there's kind of blaming, you know, portions of blaming in all different corners of the football club. I think Eddie Howe was visibly struggling at the end of the season. I think he probably should have walked away earlier, like Sam said, but obviously he's tried to do it and then decided to walk away now. I think the owners have had to scale back dreams. They're closer to what they were under Mike Ashley than they are to that 2030 dream of basically winning everything and signing everyone. It's not like a criticism because I think there's reasons for that with the financial rules. I think it's all just turned into a little bit of a mess and I think they've kind of stagnated a little bit behind the scenes. I've talked about ground, the training ground, some will know more about that. The may, I think they've got like a second, third right? Training ground still so the stuff that they haven't achieved are on their side. I think overall it's just a shame because Newcastle, I think we're ready to attack on all fronts at one point and then suddenly they've in a matter of 12 months. They feel like they're further away from it than ever and I think that's the sad thing because they genuinely won a cup, got in the Champions League again and from there, when you think they're going to build on this and maybe go to the next level, they've probably gone down a level or two instead. That Brighton, List of Managers reminds me when someone opened the filing cabinet of the exec producer during the Soccer and Glorious and there was a list of male presenter's CVs. They don't know that. Jason Manford's CVs in there. They're like, how is that? Has he sent that in? Or has they just lifted that off the internet? Anyway, so how do you put the wind up me? So how do you see it then, sir? I mean, like you say, like everyone will be united but you have lost, you know, give my eyes to Nali Gordon. In addition to the team players you lost last year, that is quite a lot of players. It is quite a lot of players and quite a lot of very good football as well and Trippius gone as well. He's out of contract. I'm excited and I think last year, it's horrible to say it, but it became inevitable. People were turning up going, this is the same old, same old. We know what's going to happen on all these points dropped from losing positions. Teams would work in your castle out and your castle hadn't worked out a way of playing when teams weren't attacking at them. Whereas now, it's like, I don't know what it's going to be. I'm not someone who comes on and pretends having Googled these new players that I know much about them. They're young, they're exciting. I think they need to get a little bit of experience in. People like you, I'm Vissa of Ultimada, Alanga who didn't have the best of years, sometimes a fresh manager, a fresh start. They are better players than they showed last year, so that will be quite good. So there'll always be people who benefit and people who lose out when there's a managerial change. And David Hopkinson, he's a CEO, right? And he said, he's come out. He talked about how the new manager is a born winner and a rock star and called him fire and all these Americanisms, but it's Newcastle 2.0. So it's like, I don't know, is it like a bug in a system? Do we have to get to like 2.6? Is it like Apple Mac refreshes before we're actually quite good? I don't know. But if you move that aside, what he did say was that, look, we basically, we've got to pay the credit card bill. They've overspent, they went for it, and now there's got to be a reset because whatever you say about PSRSCR, they're paying a price for failure and they finished 12 last year. With all those players, they finished 12 last year. Some of them already checked out. There's no European football, and so what they've got is these new young lads, they've cut the wage bill. And he rode back a little bit. I think it was, it didn't help. The Hopkinson coming out and saying 20, 30, we want to be number one. I think it's still 20, 30, but it's, want to be competing for those sort of prizes. So yeah, like it's just fresh, we don't know. And you know one thing I want to tell you how is, I'm really glad it didn't get to a situation where it was really toxic by October, under ready how if results hadn't gone your castles way and he's got us on paper a significantly weaker squad, that would have been a sad way to end it if it had got toxic. And they'd have had to get rid of him, whereas I think Yester will get a little bit more time. People will run with it. There's already the new song, the Yiseler, I can boogie. So that'll be a great away end chance. So yeah, who knows? I'm excited to watch Newcastle again. Sam, who are, who are the panelists who do just come on after a cursory Google and pretend to be expert? You're gonna name names? Who are you throwing under the bus? No, I wasn't necessarily thinking to panelists. I'm thinking about my Newcastle WhatsApp groups where people suddenly would come experts on IAX's 18-year-old Sean Stern suddenly after 20 minutes. He's like, yeah, he's the next Bruno Kimmernaise. Like, okay, of course, you watch. He followed his youth career. We should pay tribute to Kevin Keegan. Sadly, I died in the age of 75, suffering from cancer. Son of a Yorkshire coal miner, like a dude, by, you know, fans of everyone he played for, right? Starting a scum thought Liverpool, Hamburg, Southampton, Newcastle, who won three league titles, a European cup, an FA Cup, two UEFA cups were Liverpool. One back-to-back ball on doors in 78-79 when he was at Hamburg, helping them win the title as well. A bit too young for any of us to remember as a player, but like, I watched his highlights the other day and left foot right for up for a short guy, unbelievable in the air. Like, we know him as this manager and a sort of incredibly lovable figure, but what a player. Incredible. And I think you're absolutely right. That sort of bit of his career, which is quite significant. It's sort of undervalued, isn't it? And underrepresented. I just think, I mean, you mentioned that the story, where he came from and to win back-to-back ball on doors, it's like a Hollywood, isn't it? An amazing story. And I just think as a character, very humble guy, because I think I saw him saying that he knows that he's sort of remembered for, in England anyway, for his perm, for that sort of rant, you know, when he was at Newcastle, and also for falling off a bike when he was on Superstar. Superstar, yeah. So it's like, he kind of sees it, I'm all right with that. And I just think, actually, a lot of people would go, I'm really pissed off, because I, you know, look at all that I've achieved, but just a great character. He didn't seem very cynical at all. And, you know, the way he, you know, he took on England and sort of made the decision himself that he wasn't up to the job, just think very self-aware, reflective. And yeah, just a real loss to the football community, but isn't it great that we had characters like that, you know, representing us? And yeah, just wonderful. And that's just interesting, Sam, you were talking about, you know, the debate about who's the best Newcastle manager ever. And the fact that Eddie Howard won a trophy, right? And, and Keegan didn't win a trophy. And maybe it's just nostalgia talking for me. But I sort of think in 20 years time, we will still remember the entertainers, right? You know, the Ferdinand, Jinala, Asprea, the Philip Albeir lob, the four threes that I will love it, more than we will remember a more functional Newcastle team that won the Carabout Cup in in 2025 or whatever it was. Yeah, and I think it's important to say with Keegan, right? The man we've been talking about at the top of this podcast is everything football shouldn't be. And Keegan is just the complete opposite that he was just a pure footballing guy. Vulnerability at all right. It was all about the emotion, about the sense of community of bringing people along for the ride, getting some joy, getting some despair. And yeah, he will, that's the debate that Newcastle fans have been having, you know, where do they sit? You kind of got your rubsans and your kegans for their charisma and what they brought. And so Keegan won a lot of silverware at Liverpool, and he won and won his ball and doors at Hamburg, which Robin says remarkable, for a bloke that's played in the fourth division of English football to then go and win ball and... And a long time, like, in 125 games or something for scum, though. You know, it wasn't just like there and picked off. He's one of those, like he wouldn't have left. But at Newcastle, and this isn't me, this isn't one of those, oh, Newcastle's a unique club kind of rant, it just so happened to be at Newcastle. There are other clubs where this could have happened. It just so happens that we're talking about Kevin Keegan, who got Newcastle united at, in three different spells, he pulled a club up, a whole city up by its bootstraps. He came as a player when we were in the second division, got them promoted and then said, actually, I think the story goes, they'd lost an FA Cup game to Liverpool and Mark Lawrence had nipped a ball off him and he just went here. I can't quite operate at the same level. So he retired having got Newcastle promoted and they had this testimony when he left in a helicopter. And then when he came back in February 1992, Robbins on, only Oxford were below Newcastle in Division II and Newcastle just lost five to at home to Oxford. And the general consensus is if Newcastle had got relegated that year, they'd gone out of business. They wouldn't have existed as a football club had it not been for Kevin Keegan's intervention. He said it's the only job I would have taken and he paid Terry Mack 12 grand out of his own money to come in as his assistant. So he did that a couple of different times and we all know what happened next. And I know, I think he's unfairly remembered for the, I love it, it would beat the rant. I know, I can understand why. I think people forget that, like for him, Terry Mack Durham has been interviewed earlier and he just got back on the bus and like thought nothing of it. Like he didn't say anything about it being a rant. It was just the way he talked about football with that passion. And yeah, they didn't win the title and people forget that Manchester United were near perfect in that last 15 games of that season. And then he came back once more and it's probably the only good this season Mike actually made. They drew on a weight stoke in the FA Cup and had this midweek replay where no one was up for it and they hadn't opened the upper tier and there were, I don't know, 10, 12,000 tickets sold and suddenly this announced that Kevin Keegan's coming back and there were genuinely 40 odd thousand people in that ground and I remember being sat in the upper tier and you know, when, you know, something's happening because everyone stands up and just starts leaning and it's just Kevin Keegan of walked into the director's box and everyone was just so glad to see him like it's just, he's one of those characters and like I say, it could have been at any football club but he was just pure football and pure emotion and he got it. He got what football means and what it should be about. Yeah, rest in peace, Kevin Keegan. Moving on to Villa, since you're here down you've got the Super Cup on Wednesday night against PSG in the RB Arena in Salzburg. How are you feeling about that? Unsure to be honest, it's been quite to the extreme of Newcastle I don't think it's been a difficult summer in many ways for Villa but the difference might be between Villa and Newcastle is they're a little bit more stable because of the manager and because everything Villa do is is so manager led. They've brought in a couple of young fresh players, they've brought their transfer record but we won't get to see Johan Manzan beat it on Wednesday because he's injured. We've lost obviously in Tillamon's Rogers, Lucadane, three big players that were part of an 11 that have lifted the European trophy for Villa. They'll all be replaced but not sure they can be replaced with their kind of finished article that all those three players were. I think out the three of them Tillamon's is probably the bigger loss him going to Manchester United for what feels like a little bit of a low fee. Great, it's a little bit and he started off brilliantly for them in pre-season. You're taking on the best team in Europe when you're probably a little bit undercooked. Both teams will have big players returning this week to training in the lead up to the game. It's unclear what their minutes will be like but PSG are clearly the favourites. I don't know how much who and I am really kind of holds these trophies as a serious trophy. Is it easy classes as a serious trophy or is it more like the community shield? I don't know but I'm looking forward to going out there and I don't have high hopes because I think it could be a bit of a humbling experience for us but you never know in football maps. Look, this time last year Tottenham went there. They were set up pragmatically under Thomas Frank, long throws of Kevin Danseau. I came away enthused and thinking this could be the year. You don't know, maybe a humbling defeat is what you need. So then Morgan Rodgers, there's an amount of money and you just go fair enough, right? Yeah. I was quite comfortable that he was going to go to Arsenal for big money and then obviously that didn't happen and he moved to Chelsea who have just finished 10th and the financial rules of the reason Villa have to sell these players and he look at the kind of rules that Chelsea have broken and it irks you. Convilla, you know, sell their social media broadcasting supporters back to themselves because they sell you back to yourself. I'm not sure I'm holding any value at all at this point, man. I was not sure how much I'd be worth. Set-piece coach, which has always been a big one on the football week as well. He's gone. Has he gone to Chelsea as well? He's gone to Chelsea as well. Small, small minimum fee release clause. How big a difference you think that will make? Because you sort of think surely Villa will just remember what he told him. You know, like, who owns the IP? Does Austin McVey own the IP? Is there some kind of big playbook? If Chelsea's sort of a set piece against you, he can't celebrate, can he? That's not classy. I saw you guys do a bit of, he's always been quite a classy guy. He doesn't raises his hands like this. Go, I'm sorry. Yeah. He got into a bit of a scrap for Chelsea there's a day in prison with someone I saw he's having a row on that on the side with someone from the opposition. He just lose your discipline, don't you? Yeah, how does that work? He's a big miss because he was very good at what he does. You could add a bit of a debate with Stan Colliemore on Twitter and he was saying it's not a big last set piece coach. He's an aren't all that, etc. But he was responsible for a lot of goals that Villa scored, that says. And he was responsible for the opener in a European final that I can blast out of the amount of times Villa scored after set pays and the players were going to to celebrate with him. I think they're pretty close to getting a replacement into someone else will come in. I think who and I have been doing the set pieces in the interim because why not he does everything else he might as well do the set pieces as well. He's just a little bit of unknown times but I think as long generally with Villa, as long as you've got who and I am, you feel relatively comfortable that you'll get somewhere near to what you're target to. Well, that'll do for part two, part three we'll do some of the other, we won't go to all of them but we've got a while and we've got some Premier League previews to do next week as well. But we'll kick off with Arsenal signing in relation just a second. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So, I don't know what you think Robin. I think the Premier League could be really interesting this season if Arsenal don't have a great season and run away with it. So I probably said the same about Liverpool last year. So it's not easy to retain the title but Gimmeri seems like a sensible signing because all the other sides are in some sort of flux. That's the fear that they'll just be efficiently good again. Yeah, I think this is going to be interesting and I think it's going to be interesting Yeah, I think this is going to be interesting because I think what they got on their side which so many Premier League teams don't is they have the same manager. I think it's nine, I think, different, yeah. And we're going to have their Premier League debut as the new coaches when it kicks off and obviously Michaela Teta's still there. Gimmeri's is a great signing for them. I think Declan Rice can finally maybe have a bit of a rest. I mean, that's a big thing, isn't it? At the very least. You know when players are so excited that someone's been sort of in their position and Declan Rice is just absolutely relieved. Thank God. But yeah, and also, you know, he's Premier League ready, his quality, Newcastle, you know, it was a big stat, you know, when he was playing or when he was not in their success rate. So yeah, no big signing for them. I guess the only thing is they had Vinny Jr. dangled in front of them. I think Vinny Jr. was a bit like, you know, those Class B arcade machines, right? He was so tangled. But there was never, you were never, even if you've got this picked Vinny himself, he was going to drop out of that thing before it got to the bottom. There was just no where. There was absolutely. I don't, I don't even think like my opic Arsenal fan ever thought they were kicking the machine. They were going, no. Yeah, Sam, there was this idea that Arsenal will play slightly different, slightly more interesting football. If that's not too controversial a word to use, maybe they won't be able to get as much fortune with sick pieces or you know, like, we saw the World Cup, they just wasn't that, you know, grappling and all that stuff. And maybe that will change a bit. And maybe they will just, you know, develop the pressures off them a bit, right? I totally understand. It was just winner all costs last year. Yeah, that who do is gone. They've, there's no one going to call them bot. Well, I probably would call them bottlers, but that, that, they've got that title under the belt. And I think you have to evolve, right? All good or all elite football managers or football managers at any level should be looking to evolve because stylistically, if you stay the same, other teams catch up with you. So I think that the Gimmer S1 is a, it's still raw as a Newcastle fan. I don't want to go into it too much, but what he can do is unlock and he can play both positions. He can sit and hold and play at the base of that pivot, but also for Newcastle at times last year, he's played further forward and he's got that, that little pass, the, the finally a little bit of space, finally a gap. He's brilliant in, with the ball, he wants the ball under pressure in, in an entire area as he keeps hold of the ball and he moves it on. So I think he'll make them ticker, wouldn't be surprised if a fair few assists come from him. And he's got, he's this driving force as well. And he is someone who just, and he won't need to do it, ask them like you do at Newcastle as much, but he can carry a team forward and he gets the fans all pumped up. He's an extrovert, right? He draws his energy from externally. So I think he will make a difference to them stylistically. I think what he lacks for in pace, he's certainly got in terms of his vision and what he can see. I hear it quite a lot about Arsenal. Oh, well, they've got this amazing defense, but they're a bit boring. Their attack isn't quite where it should be. And then you look at the players they've got and you think, well, I don't know, it looks pretty good to me on paper, or all those eight or nine forwards, including the young lads that are coming through. So I don't think it's all as bad as the people make out going forward for Arsenal. And yeah, Vinny Jr. would have added another dimension to it. But I think they could be more exciting next year, yeah. Chelsea are interesting, aren't they, Dan? I mean, we talked about Morgan Rogers, but suddenly that Jordan Henderson and Danny Wellbecker, right? That was a sort of, I think somebody set up a whole BBC Football website just to trick me and I'm going to say it and then they're going to go, of course, Danny Wellbeck and Jordan Henderson haven't gone, but like, once you get past that that seems a bit odd, it's probably really sensible. Henderson will do something similar to what he did for England in the summer. You would imagine minus the falling over the advertising hoarding hill. He'll hope and Wellbeck, I think Wellbeck will actually get games, like he'll be the alternative to Jal Pedro. He'll probably get a fair few minutes. You can look at it and kind of laugh and say, have they gone too far the other way now, Chelsea, but actually all their signings seem pretty switched on for the first time. The choir is going to be really important for them. At the back, he's a tremendous defender was in and around the front team in the summer for the World Cup and he'll be an upgrade on what they've had there. Previously, I felt they've always lacked a top centre back and a goalkeeper probably in this blue curve round where they've bought absolutely everyone. I mean, Robert Sanchez Maywell still be the goalkeeper, which I will find absolutely incredible for the fourth or fifth season running, but they've got a proper manager here in Javier Lanzo who will look at the players. He's got maker system that works with those players. And I actually think they're probably best placed to kind of do what Manchester United did last season with not having any European football. It wouldn't surprise me if outside of Arsenal and Manchester City that it was them that were right behind because I think they're suddenly starting to put together quite a functional team. Many palmestays fit, they've got obviously Morgan Rogers as well, Jal Pedro's a sensational forward. I think it could all come together quite nicely for Chelsea this season. And that's got lots of set pieces as well. Sure, of course they will. And but again, it is Chelsea, so it might not. And that is the fun part, isn't it? Yeah, but Josh says, whether any of the panel by the Calam Wilson was at Brentford, I only found out when he popped up in a friendly, there's going to be a lot of these over the next week or so. I don't know if there are any transfers, Robin, a big or small that you've gone, I think this is, I'm really interested to see how this person does at this club or any clubs recruitment that you've looked at and gone, well, this is interesting. Um, the one over the polities to Dan is that, you know, obviously, I'm, we've said this many times before, child of the 90s, Manchester United's Banta Era has been, you know, wonderful to see. But I think Tealermans for Man United is big, big, big, big. Because he's, he's just a class player, you know, especially in the World Cup, he basically led that Belgian team to as far as they could. I think that's, that could be really big for Manchester United. And yeah, that Chelsea continued to baffle, don't they? So yeah, so there's, there are some interesting signs. I think Callum Wilson to Brentford's a good one. Um, Igor Tiago was obviously doing quite a lot of the heavy lifting. But Callum Wilson showed last season, I know West Hamlet relegated. He's a really good finisher, isn't he? Um, he's called some, you know, very important goals. And he still got an eye for goals. So no, I think that's a good one. But yeah, no, I'm sure there are, there are, um, transfers that, yeah, they'll kick off when it's the old Barry Sergio Ramos. Oh, there he is. Yeah, well, I don't want to tell Barry the Christian all guards left Arsenal because you know, that was a big bit of content for him, whether he'd get any game time, where's he got forgotten where he's gone? I should have gone to Everton. Okay, that feels right. That feels right. Dwight McNeil and Brennan Johnson swapping feels so right to me. Doesn't feel like such a bad feels right. Um, Sam, is there anything that you've gone? Oh, I mean, I'd love you to say losing to Nali's the worst thing that could ever happen to Newcastle and he will win Tottenham, the Premier League. But I don't think you're going to tell me that. I'm not Sandra Tnali didn't want to be in Newcastle last year. There were times you and I have had this conversation elsewhere. He had one brilliant season and then a season last year where he, he wasn't so good. But I don't think, you know, Italy, all right, they didn't qualify for World Cup. Italy had built their team around him. I don't necessarily think what players didn't in Newcastle United last year is a measure of what they might do this season for their new club. The worry with Tnali is, I think he didn't into the other day where he basically said, yeah, I want to go back to Italy, but no one could afford me. I don't think he ever really wanted to leave Milan, but the financial circumstances dictated. Otherwise, he is, he is a serious athlete, Sandra Tnali. I feel like Tottenham overpaid for him, but you just, you never know. As I say, he wasn't interested in being in Newcastle last year. It felt like, so I can't really judge what he's going to be like this year on that. Jason Maida from Celtic to Ipswich. Right. You know, he, I feel like that's a bit like a coup for them, isn't it? Yeah. He's going to be good. It's because he, I mean, I'm trying to remember what division Ipswicher in Robin. That's why. They are in the Premier League. Again, it was, they got promoted under Kyra McKenna. And he, again, came out and said, I'm a bit tired. I'm stepping down, it's Gary O'Neal in charge. I just, I'm just liking this. You know, people, as a, as a member of the Woke Arati, the Guardian Football Wokely, I like these people coming out and saying, look, I've had it, you know, I need a bit of a break. I like it. I mean, how tired are you, Robin? Because if I get tired, you have to do more work. So, you know, to be fair, these football managers, they, they don't really get a break. Do they like ever? The more I think about it, I think this, this sounds like the worst job ever, really. Yeah, although just one payoff. And then you're fine for ages. Car about cup started of the weekend. Don't know how I feel about that. You know, it feels like that should be EFL and then a bit of a midweek one. But what are the headlines? Millwall keeper, Lucas Jetson saved all four KPR penalties in a shootout to help them get through. What for, got a win in the ninth minute of stoppage time at home to Crawley. I did look up who their manager was on Saturday, but I can't remember it. Ten man Preston beat. He had us fit on penalties in the game. He was played at Goodison, because Deepdale's pitch isn't ready. And a massive 2-1 win for Cambridge over Barnett. You lost 2-0 to late in the Orient, Oxford. Robin, you did quite a lot of issues off the pitch here. Aaron Ramsey has come into management. But what's happening off the pitch? Well, basically two weeks after Aaron Ramsey agreed to take the job. We were hit with a registration embargo. So, not just can't sign anyone. Can't register anyone. So, no free agents at all. Because not compliant with salary cost management protocol regulations. Yes, my favourite thing. I know you're familiar. So, Strictor rules have been brought in for sort of the EFL league one. Got relegated last season. And obviously had a lot of players on big wages. And the club have basically come out and said, we're not paying this bond that needs to be paid until the January transfer window. Because they want to try and keep the players that we have. And they're not... And you've got good players, right? I was saying to George Ellicke about this. Your squad is good, right? Well, the first 11 is good. The squad, not so much. And also, there are two star players who are... Well, we're seriously ill on Saturday. Yeah. Mysteriously ill. So, that is Brenda Kiersmacher, who actually hasn't played in January. He's a very good midfielder. And the one that probably you're more familiar with is Stan Mills, a son of Danny. Yeah. His excellent winger, who probably would have gone. The club are static for saying that they're not going to be sold. We just need this transfer window to be over. But in terms of the game against Layton Orient, did okay. But then had to substitute the first 11 for sort of youth players and made the team considerably weaker and then lost Layton. And that's a fear for this season. Well, and did the gaffer say these two players were mysteriously ill? Because that was ill-reel. I think he... He's coming out and saying that. He said, Nigel and Hill. I mean, Aaron Ramsey, he's spoken brilliantly since he came. He would not have taken this job had this, had he known about this. So I do feel very badly for him. He's been, you know, rug's been pulled out from under him. But he's been very statesmen like already. So we will see. But, yeah, my partner is extremely pessimistic. He's an oxman at a season ticket holder. And when the final whistle blew against Layton Orient, right, we're going to be in league two next season. That was the first round of the carabuck. Blue Square by Christmas. Yeah. Sam, you wanted to talk about York City. Well, they're just an interesting one, aren't they? They... So they got promoted. They're back in the football league for the first time in about 10 years. And then you see... So their owners... The uglars, isn't it? The guy called Matt Uglard. And so they... I think they generally considered to have saved the club. And they had that amazing moment last year where they got promoted. The rochedale. The rochedale, therefore, they scored a 95 minute winner to get promoted. Then York scored. And so York went up. Under a guy called Stuart Maynard, who'd come in... Four games into the season, but one 32 of his 42 league games. And it all seemed to be going well. And there were these social media photos they'd gone on a pre-season tour to Spain. Looking forward to the new season. And then suddenly he... Well, there was a difference of visions, I think, the statement said. And so they've replaced probably the most popular manager they've had in a long time. With a bloke called Scott Lindsay. Oh, I don't know if I feel sorry for him because you don't know how long he'd been talking to the uglars. But obviously he was sacked by Crawley in March. He's got sort of a middling record. And so they're carabell cup game. And they were in the... Was it the preliminary qualifying round? They had to play in extra couple of games. Last season. Yes, that's the one. Because they were nine English teams in Europe this year. And they happened to be playing against Crawley, his old team. And so what should have been this celebration? I know it wasn't a league game, but first time back in the football league. Part of the EFL, so the EFL cup. And already the new guys getting sacked in the morning chance. And there's songs for the old manager. And you just think like how football and football owners manage is to mess things up. Even from positions of like absolutely for your absolute elation. They should be riding on the crest of a wave. And the season hasn't even kicked off. And already this sort of immutable amongst a fan base. It's just astounding what the trouble owners managed to get themselves into. Yeah, I think I've said it before. I remember going to Exeter away first game of the season. Neil Neil in the eighth minute. And one of our players just punched a free kick out the box. And there was a penalty. And the first dairy out show after about 10 minutes. So come on, we've only just only just started. Come on, give him a minute. Anyways, got his premiership. Rangers one point from two games. Want to disaster for them? Celtic of one, two out of two. Have as have some mirrored hearts of drop points as well. They lost their opening game. Two dramatic late goals. I think it was in that one. But yeah, Derek McKinnis losing home to a stoppage time goal by hip substitute, Callum Wright that fit by well underway. Has anyone seen this celebration gone wrong in Brazil? Have you seen this? Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it. 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